ok, this sucks.

One major reason why this game is unplayable at times and really ****es me off.

Playing as Bristol City, leading 2-1 at home to Luton in a game I needed to win to get them into the playoffs. 70 minutes on the clock, I decide to click the pause button to check the tactics screen, just so I could see the condition of my players....I must add that nothing major was happening and it was a break in play at the time.

I decided against making any changes as all my players were playing well and were around the 80% mark....so I click the cancel button....what a surprise, Luton have equalised....it's now 2-2....with no build up play or anything....2 minutes later it's 2-3 to Luton...?!?!...so I decide to go for the win, my team valiantly battle a cheating AI to pull it back to 3-3, only for my team to concede another 2 goals in the last 5 minutes and my players that were playing well and either had ratings of 7 or 8's prior to the unexplainable change to the game, have now picked up 5 and 6's....

I lose and with it I lose all hope of the playoffs! cheers!

One major reason why this game is unplayable at times and really ****es me off.

Playing as Bristol City, leading 2-1 at home to Luton in a game I needed to win to get them into the playoffs. 70 minutes on the clock, I decide to click the pause button to check the tactics screen, just so I could see the condition of my players....I must add that nothing major was happening and it was a break in play at the time.

I decided against making any changes as all my players were playing well and were around the 80% mark....so I click the cancel button....what a surprise, Luton have equalised....it's now 2-2....with no build up play or anything....2 minutes later it's 2-3 to Luton...?!?!...so I decide to go for the win, my team valiantly battle a cheating AI to pull it back to 3-3, only for my team to concede another 2 goals in the last 5 minutes and my players that were playing well and either had ratings of 7 or 8's prior to the unexplainable change to the game, have now picked up 5 and 6's....

I lose and with it I lose all hope of the playoffs! cheers!

The AI doesnt cheat

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">my team valiantly battle a cheating AI </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I stopped reading their because it doesn't happen

At around 70 minutes and if they are losing, the ai team will switch to a more attacking tactic, usually 4-2-4.

It is up to you, as manager to recognise that and adjust your tactics accordingly.

It is not enough to just look at your team to see how their condition is. You must adjust you team shape and mentality to counter their aggressive chasing of a goal.

Once you change to a more attacking formation yourself it can become quite easy for the them to pick you off on the counter.

It is not an ai cheat although I fully understand that it can look like that sometimes. Hope this helps.

I always go into a defensive tactic if 2-1 up against a team of equal quality with around 20 minutes to go.

I'm hoping this one is closed before it gets completely out of hand.

Seeing as the OP is completely pointless, and would be better off in the FMS forum.

You haven't understood what I have said....I looked at the report after the game, and it said I had a freekick and then the next line was 'thompson scored'...

I know the AI changes its formation, but trust me, it did nothing and only scored directly after I clicked the cancel button....how do you explain that?

Can't, Very strange in indeed. A bug??

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

You haven't understood what I have said....I looked at the report after the game, and it said I had a freekick and then the next line was 'thompson scored'...

I know the AI changes its formation, but trust me, it did nothing and only scored directly after I clicked the cancel button....how do you explain that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Screenshot please

most definitely, I had to quit the game, I can't take that...I can take losing if my tactics or team talk is to blame, but this was rediculous.

And....I am aware of how the AI changes tactics, and also I've been the biggest fan of SI and have never gone with the people that says the AI cheats...but this was just rediculous!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ridleys:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

You haven't understood what I have said....I looked at the report after the game, and it said I had a freekick and then the next line was 'thompson scored'...

I know the AI changes its formation, but trust me, it did nothing and only scored directly after I clicked the cancel button....how do you explain that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Screenshot please </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Had you saud that 5 minutes ago, I could have obliged....but I quit the game in a fit of rage!

I believe there used to be a bug where goals where conceded from a corner if you clicked the tactic screen. Similar thing probably.

please see my other threads for empathy:

Stat attack/ AI cheat mode

Plenty of discussion regarding this kinda stuff.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5:

I'm hoping this one is closed before it gets completely out of hand.

Seeing as the OP is completely pointless, and would be better off in the FMS forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You see the thread title, you know it's not going to be a positive thread, so why come in and reply? **** off, please.

As for the topic, I notice a lot that if you pause and go into tactics, the game is at a different stage when you exit/confirm. Has never cost me a goal, but always is a headscratcher.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5:

I'm hoping this one is closed before it gets completely out of hand.

Seeing as the OP is completely pointless, and would be better off in the FMS forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FMS? In what way is this a Story?

If an AI can cheat then the world will soon be run by robots. It implies there is something to gain, and there isn't. It's programming code, not an evil spirit inhabiting your PC.

ok, wrong choice of words, but this is definitely a bug, so maybe I should have posted it in the bugs forum?

sorry if I offended any of you ever so friendly people.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5:

I'm hoping this one is closed before it gets completely out of hand.

Seeing as the OP is completely pointless, and would be better off in the FMS forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You see the thread title, you know it's not going to be a positive thread, so why come in and reply? **** off, please.

As for the topic, I notice a lot that if you pause and go into tactics, the game is at a different stage when you exit/confirm. Has never cost me a goal, but always is a headscratcher. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh come on, I was only messing around, I mentioned FMS to say he was spinning a yarn.

The irony was obviously lost on you....

Are we sitting comfortably....

Then I'll begin....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

ok, wrong choice of words, but this is definitely a bug, so maybe I should have posted it in the bugs forum?

sorry if I offended any of you ever so friendly people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I'm sorry if my 1st post annoyed you.

I really was only messing around, hence throwing in the FM Stories bit...

(But you should post that in the bugs forum, as it certainly seems like a bug, I've never seen that before)

When you click off the tactics screen it will advance very very quickly if nothing of any note has happened during your time on it. Could it be this?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by butts:

When you click off the tactics screen it will advance very very quickly if nothing of any note has happened during your time on it. Could it be this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the point is, if you click pause beforehand, nothing at all should have happened as the game is paused.

According to the OP, you clicked pause and as you unclicked it the AI had equalised? They equalised while you were paused, or they equalised on the first attack after you paused? Very different. If it is the first it is an undoubted bug. If it is the second nothing more than misfortune and coincidence.

The AI often changes things around when losing with roughly 20 minutes to go, as concurrent with real life. Did you check the AI's formation screen? If you deperately need the win why on earth aren't you protecting a lead with only 20 to go, rather than continuing to attack (Assuming that is what you were doing)? There's more than a fighting chance your players' morale dropped heavily after the equaliser casuign them to self-destruct, especially if the win was so vital. Panic sets in, errors are made, and you concede. Not hugely unrealistic if you continue to attack and leave yourself open to the counter?

Hey Jase, a few years back Wrexham (I think) were either 3-1 up or 3-1 down. In the last five minutes the then losing team scored 3 times to win 4-3

lol, this is so stupid. just like those who believe if they keep clicking on the other team's goal it will help them score

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Once you change to a more attacking formation yourself it can become quite easy for the them to pick you off on the counter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but when they switch to an attacking formation while you're still using your normal/attacking one why the **** do you never catch them out???

yep this happened to me before,I was man u and playin west ham.I was losing 2-1 and before I pressed pause it said sammy eto hit it wide who plays for me.So I made a few subs,pressed play and all of a sudden Defoe scored,how could the ball go from a goal kick at one end and end up a goal in the other all in 2 seconds.Its a bug,a rare one,oh yeah lost the match 3-2 drove me mad

This new idiotic system of being able to make "running tactical changes" while the game goes on does seem to be a little dodgy - I much prefered the old system where the game waited for a pause, then sends you to your tactics screen automatically pausing the game.

I always pause the game to make changes anyway, but the continuity of the game seems to get a bit messed up when you return. I don't for one minute think it is "AI cheating", but it doesn't happen as it ought to - the game tends to suddenly halt mid-play while it actually makes your tactical changes and then when it restarts the move is completely lost it seems and it moves on.

I lost a game at Lyon with Fiorentina as I paused and went for my tactics screen at 0-0 (3-2 up on aggregate from home leg) in the 82nd minute. The moment I clicked cancel (I didn't actually make any changes) Lyon equalised, but I am willing to accept that was just an unfortunate coincidence - nevertheless, there was clearly some break in continuity because I saw none of the build up to the goal, it just went in straight when I unpaused it having not been threatening when I originally paused.

Is there any way to only make substitution changes when the game will actually allow them?

I made a defensive substitution while up 1-0 only to watch as the opponent scored while the button said "making changes." I couldnt cancel the sub and the game pulled my star striker off for a DM. Can this situation be avoided?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

If an AI can cheat then the world will soon be run by robots. It implies there is something to gain, and there isn't. It's programming code, not an evil spirit inhabiting your PC. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CLAP CLAP CLAP!! Exactly the game has been programmed to find weaknesses in tactics yes. but can anyone say they havent seen the same type of goal over and over reguardless of tactics.

The game doesnt cheat, it cant cheat, it follows its programming. But I will guarantee you this, SI would not have thought the bias comeback logic would be so damn effective. Even to the point that your players start playing for your oppositions at times. Weird yes but totally unexpected, and I'm sure with all things reguarding this game, will be rectified eventually. And lets be reasonable, the bugs arent that prevelent.

It may be one out of 7-8 games that i will see some keeper zap all over the place despite his ability. Infuriating yes, or maybe a display of first touch football to perfection by a team that has zero skill, form or morale. Happens in football unfortunately. Just watched a decent keeper save three point blank shots in a row, going from one side of the goal to another. Totally impossible in RL, but here now im getting used to it. Or a striker with no pace no finishing and apparently more importantly no composure slot goal after goal defying his form morale or any forms of reasonable logic. But again thats football.

I'm loving this version more than any other before. Case in point. I manage 7 teams currently so most weekends are 3-7 games back to back. Now in the past the referees didnt really have much of an affect on games. They made thier decisions, and it was pretty predictable. LOL not anymore they have personalities, they have precedence. My Man U lads were at struggling Cardiff, bottom of the table. My lads, 12 points clear at the top. We start, game goes pretty much to plan, im up 1-0 34th minute Rooney goes in late on a tackle. Nothing special from the commentators actually said he dived. Bang straight red, OMFG what the freek is that!! So I look at the ref which I should have done b4 the game, and yep hes been a bastard for weeks now. So I change around and end up getting another on the counter, win 2-0. whew got away with that.

Next game is my Tottenham team at home to portsmouth. We hammer portsmouth getting 15 shots on target. No goals but thas my fault. tempo to high and mids takenn to many shots. But thats not what this is about. In this game the portsmouth players were in a filthy mood, there were a total of 3 elbows all yellows, two dangerous two footers, yellow. And the bast for last a last man fould when Berba is clean through and nothing at all. Foul but no card. I was blowing up!! And rightly so.

So the morale is that you dont really control anything, nothing at all. It is a video game that you can give instructions to, but whether they come out is up to the programming. Dont get mad at people, or your game. Just accept that FM is, and always will be, a work in progress, and do the best that you can. Otherwise quit playing all together. Many already have. But for me its always going to be a case of, bring it the F on!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Golden28:

At around 70 minutes and if they are losing, the ai team will switch to a more attacking tactic, usually 4-2-4.

It is up to you, as manager to recognise that and adjust your tactics accordingly.

It is not enough to just look at your team to see how their condition is. You must adjust you team shape and mentality to counter their aggressive chasing of a goal.

Once you change to a more attacking formation yourself it can become quite easy for the them to pick you off on the counter.

It is not an ai cheat although I fully understand that it can look like that sometimes. Hope this helps.

I always go into a defensive tactic if 2-1 up against a team of equal quality with around 20 minutes to go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how often do you actually get notification of when it does so? I agree that around the 70 min mark is time to look closely at what the opposition is doing, but what is really ****ing me off, is that, whilst the opposition will have their changes, subs/formation accepted immediatley, it can often take the human up to 5 minutes game time to make the adjustmnents, when you take into account resetting OI instructions etc. etc.

Tactically, it is the humans fault for not realising, however how can one adjust in a situation where the AI has a distinct advantage.

e.g. I had a game recently where at 1-0 up with 20 to go, the opposition changed formation, (no text to indicate it), I clocked something was amiss, and went to the tactics screen, in there I found opposition players in positoins different to the formation being displayed. I set up changing my instructions accordingly. By the time I've finished, they have already equalised, I commit to the change and lo and behold I get notified that they have change formation, a whole 5 minutes game time and a goal later. Almost immediately, I get another notification that the they have changed formation, enter tactics (you know whats coming) as i make the changes, they score again!

Whilst I accept that teams chase games I do feel at times that the AI has a distinct advantage in what it can do, whereas humans are at a disadvantage is being able to respond accordingly, unless you want to sit with a full on defend at all costs tactic from about 70 mins. This is not what people want to be honest. They only want fairness and parity. I can accept defeat when I am battered off the park by the likes of Barca/Man U, but when the bottom feeders become Olympians in the last 20 mins, I do get a might peed off.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

The AI often changes things around when losing with roughly 20 minutes to go, as concurrent with real life.

Oh so true!

Did you check the AI's formation screen?

Checking the formation screen does not always give you a true representaton of what the AI has done. I regularly do so after 70 mins, and have noticed that if I go to my tactics screen the players positions are not always what the formation say. So the human, in reacting to the screen, reacts to false information. Usually because there is a delay in the information being passed within the engine from formation to screen. Players react, but to the wrong thing

If you deperately need the win why on earth aren't you protecting a lead with only 20 to go, rather than continuing to attack (Assuming that is what you were doing)?

I agree with you to a minor degree. If you are dominating a team however, is there any reason to expect them to run faster, play better in the last 20 minutes, when they have not shown anything in the previous 70. Their morale should drop, as should their determination levels as they have been battered, they should not suddenly decide that thay can go up 3 gears and stage an amazing comeback. Surely HT is when they should start to fight

There's more than a fighting chance your players' morale dropped heavily after the equaliser casuign them to self-destruct, especially if the win was so vital.

Agree, players will get a little edgy, but does this statement not highlight one of the fundamental problems people are having in that the non/tactical effects are being overemphasised. The majority of people who play just want to set up and get on with it, and so so whilst people who look more in depth can fathom out the whys and wherefores, the game presents itself as biased </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't really complain if the other team scores whilst you are in the tactics screen. I am one of those who thinks the new method of "running tactical changes" is ridiculous, but I always hit pause when I go into my tactics screen anyway. True I sometimes then unpause it after confirming my changes and the AI instantly scores, but it's better than having 5 minutes game time flash past in which they score a goal whilst I'm fiddling with player instructions!

As for AI always switching to 4-2-4 when losing late on, sure it's unimaginative, but it's a fairly obvious ploy to throw players forward in pursuit of a goal. I never switch to 4-2-4 personally because I don't play 4-4-2 so it would be far to inconvenient a switch to my tactics, but I do fling MLs and MRs to AML and AMR or even FL and FR or attack long forward arrows to midfielders and put mentality to Gung Ho and all that kind of stuff when chasing a game.

Personally I never switch to a defensive tactic when leading because I have no trust in the defensive module of the game and every time I have switched defensive in the past I concede a goal almost instantly. I prefer to just crank up my own attacking and hope to punish the AI's wild attacking with some of my own!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Golden28:

At around 70 minutes and if they are losing, the ai team will switch to a more attacking tactic, usually 4-2-4.

It is up to you, as manager to recognise that and adjust your tactics accordingly.

It is not enough to just look at your team to see how their condition is. You must adjust you team shape and mentality to counter their aggressive chasing of a goal.

Once you change to a more attacking formation yourself it can become quite easy for the them to pick you off on the counter.

It is not an ai cheat although I fully understand that it can look like that sometimes. Hope this helps.

I always go into a defensive tactic if 2-1 up against a team of equal quality with around 20 minutes to go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, going back a bit in the thread but I want to comment on this point. I do agree with some of it, you need to be aware of what the opposition do. However, i would point out that you say if you go to an attacking formation they can pick you off on the counter-attack. Surely that cuts both ways. I am always reluctant to change my formation/tactics unless completely necessary. The OP was of the opinion that his team were playing well and their condition was good. Changing things in that situation might have messed up the flow of the game, giving the opposition a way back into the game. I'm loathe to go to a defensive mentality if my team are well on top. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. If the opposition decides to go to an attacking formation, surely it is they who are throwing caution to the wind and you are most likely to pick them off on the counterattack.

It is unfortunate what happened but it does happen, even in real life. Look at how United were cruising against Portsmouth, you would only have picked one winner, but a momentary lack of concentration from one player can change the game. The AI does pile it on thick though when it doesn't just get one goal but a few, very annoying!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by glamdring:

You can't really complain if the other team scores whilst you are in the tactics screen. I am one of those who thinks the new method of "running tactical changes" is ridiculous, but I always hit pause when I go into my tactics screen anyway. True I sometimes then unpause it after confirming my changes and the AI instantly scores, but it's better than having 5 minutes game time flash past in which they score a goal whilst I'm fiddling with player instructions!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont so much mind the running tactical changes as the fact that you cannot cancel the changes once you confirm them. This is the truly absurd part of the tactics. On more than one occasion I have confirmed a substitution only to have the opponent, or me, score while the sub is waiting to happen. Ususally this changes the game and I would like to change my sub as well, as a real manager would be able to do. Can I do this? Nope. Bring on the defensive sub while we are now losing.