Boycott Steam - FM 2010

Dear all,

I have been cheated by the arrangements made here when an option was offered to buy FM 2010 through Steam. After paying £30 to Steam and enjoying the game for a very short time, I suddenly became unable to play the game in 2 different computers, a few months ago, because Steam started playing with updating its client and their interference with the software made impossible my access to the game.

By the way I am not alone, many other people face the same problem (See Steam Forums about stuck updating in 48% etc).

Steam has provided no real support so far. Overall, they have totally ignored my request to provide their updated client software in a different way, and suggested to me to read some vague and full of experimental, not necessarily helpful stuff from other users in their forums!... As if users are expected to resolve the problems!...

Yesterday I informed them that they should refund the money I've spent for buying actually nothing (since they have done things that blocked my access and are unable to resolve the problem after almost 6l months I have asked to respond): They refused.

I consider myself blatantly cheated. I am very sorry that SI has made business with them.

Not only have not been able to play the game for about 6 months, but I feel cheated to buy thin air....

= I strongly advise everyone to boycott Steam/Valve as the only solution to protect the market and the consumers' rights from such companies.

= I also ask SI to reconsider very seriously any deal with that company in the future.

= finally, I would also request from SI to send me a CD copy of FM2010 if they believe that this is not how their customers should be treated.

kind regards

C.

Mate, my upmost sympathies.

I had massive issues with Steam on FM09 that meant I couldn't play the game for the last month prior to 10's release. As such I cancelled my pre order of 10 from Steam and took my money elsewhere.

I have posted a number of times on these forums about the evil horribleness that is Steam and firmly believe that it is a disgraceful un supportive service that has turned Valve from a great community supporting business into the new EA. Your story about their lack of caring about your issue is sadly all too familiar.

I for one will shed no tears if SI dump these guys.

For the record I bought from Games digital distributor and have had no problems apart from losing my download email, and unlike Steams support they got back to me within an hour (steam took on average over 24 hours ot each problem)

Steam sucks

I feel for you having issues with a game but I feel that games have issues even without client programs such as Steam, it really could happen to anyone with any game.

Steam has been fantastic for me for a very long time and I am sure there are many many users who use steam as their main portal to gaming and could not live without it.

I think there will be no gains from a boycott and I really cannot see it happening at all. SI should continue to offer a CD version of the game for those who do not wish to use a program such as steam and those who would support this boycott should chose this route to purchase in the future.

I feel for you having issues with a game but I feel that games have issues even without client programs such as Steam, it really could happen to anyone with any game.

Steam has been fantastic for me for a very long time and I am sure there are many many users who use steam as their main portal to gaming and could not live without it.

I think there will be no gains from a boycott and I really cannot see it happening at all. SI should continue to offer a CD version of the game for those who do not wish to use a program such as steam and those who would support this boycott should chose this route to purchase in the future.

You're right. Anyone could ahve issues, but Steams lack of after sales service is shocking to say the least. Worst company for support I have ever dealt with in any sector. Thats saying something when you consider I have had to deal with BT on a regular basis.

I think there will be no gains from a boycott and I really cannot see it happening at all. SI should continue to offer a CD version of the game for those who do not wish to use a program such as steam and those who would support this boycott should chose this route to purchase in the future.

Of course there will be gains.

At the moment anyone who is using STEAM is actually in a very risky ground.

At any moment something can go wrong because of their actions, but because of the small print, (read the agreement when you buy anything from them in which you agree to no refund for any reason), they impose a rule that makes them able to literally exploit their customers and treating them as nothing.

Thus, you are a potential victim of a company because it could harm you at any time if circumstances change. You may end up with thin air at any time too...

I used to have no problems with Steam as well and now you see what happened?

If you realise what I am saying, you'd need to protect yourself.... not simply ignore the risk and just keep using Steam in a situation in which your rights as consumer are extremely thin and ignored, in a situation in which you are always vulnerable to Steam abusing its service.

You're right. Anyone could ahve issues, but Steams lack of after sales service is shocking to say the least. Worst company for support I have ever dealt with in any sector. Thats saying something when you consider I have had to deal with BT on a regular basis.

I am also with BT and have not had a single issue in MANY years, net has not been down for more than an hour in about 4 years, maybe I have just been lucky!

I think as a general rule there will be a percentage of cases that have ongoing issues for one reason or another but that percentage is small (though depends on the company). I have yet to deal with steam's customer support and I have been using since 2005 and I have a lot of games on my account.

Maybe I am just lucky or you have been unlucky, we might never know.

(runs off to touch all the wood he can find for the next hour or so)

Of course there will be gains.

At the moment anyone who is using STEAM is actually in a very risky ground.

At any moment something can go wrong because of their actions, but because of the small print, (read the agreement when you buy anything from them in which you agree to no refund for any reason), they impose a rule that makes them able to literally exploit their customers and treating them as nothing.

Thus, you are a potential victim of a company because it could harm you at any time if circumstances change. You may end up with thin air at any time too...

I used to have no problems with Steam as well and now you see what happened?

If you realise what I am saying, you'd need to protect yourself.... not simply ignore the risk and just keep using Steam in a situation in which your rights as consumer are extremely thin and ignored, in a situation in which you are always vulnerable to Steam abusing its service.

I have been using steam for a while now and I have not had any issues loading on other machines. I have had games on 3 PCs with no issues. Whenever I have had loading problems usually a reinstall, validation etc solved it. I have once had to format a drive but I had trouble loading steam itself after some hard drive issues (Having two hard drives makes this a lot easier)

Again I feel you have been unlucky and maybe with some perseverance you could resolve the issue, if it can indeed be resolved that is...

I have been using steam for a while now and I have not had any issues loading on other machines. I have had games on 3 PCs with no issues. Whenever I have had loading problems usually a reinstall, validation etc solved it. I have once had to format a drive but I had trouble loading steam itself after some hard drive issues (Having two hard drives makes this a lot easier)

Again I feel you have been unlucky and maybe with some perseverance you could resolve the issue, if it can indeed be resolved that is...

Sorry but please try to reply to what I'm saying and not if you have problems with the Steam.. that's not the point.

I had no problems with them in the past as well, like you, but now I have just lost £30 and several months for nothing... You could face problems too, you never know, that's the point... and since anything you buy from Steam means that you agree in no right of refund they can do anything they like... they don't even have a motive to be helpful...

And sorry but I'm not ''unlucky''

I've been cheated.

There is a big difference.

I've only had a couple of problems with steam (not with FM thankfully, just steam and the orange box), but both times after submitting questions to steam support, i have had good responses from them which helped sort the problems. I know some people who swear by downloading from steam, although I still prefer to have a disk box in my hand before deciding to install to steam or not.

You are cheating with FMRTE or Genie Scout ?

It wont happen - far too many people actually like steam.

Frankly, if I could - id move all the games ive bought onto steam.

Since 2007 (I think, might be 2008) ive used steam whenever I can (unless they had a stupid price on a game) and since then ive had 1 issue - and, it turns out - I actually caused that issue, not steam (I had a mod installed on Empire TW and when I updated the game the mod was no longer compatable - as I said - my fault not theirs).

It wont happen - far too many people actually like steam.

Frankly, if I could - id move all the games ive bought onto steam.

Since 2007 (I think, might be 2008) ive used steam whenever I can (unless they had a stupid price on a game) and since then ive had 1 issue - and, it turns out - I actually caused that issue, not steam (I had a mod installed on Empire TW and when I updated the game the mod was no longer compatable - as I said - my fault not theirs).

To move your CD games to Steam, and hope it will work for you, fine but it is not the same with my case: I bought the digital download game from them... and now left with nothing.

That's why I request that SI will decide to check my receipt and it's reasonable to send me the CD.

And for anyone who understands the risk, my honest advice is: do not buy directly from STEAM.

And about SI, I hope they will take measures to protect customers experiencing what happened to me

To move your CD games to Steam, and hope it will work for you, fine but it is not the same with my case: I bought the digital download game from them... and now left with nothing.

No - in most cases I do buy direct from steam.

Im not sure what your problem is - but I cant think of any steam issue that a complete wipe of steam and all its games (and all the hidden folders) couldnt solve.

No - in most cases I do buy direct from steam.

Im not sure what your problem is - but I cant think of any steam issue that a complete wipe of steam and all its games (and all the hidden folders) couldnt solve.

I also think this.

telemahos, I apologise, i did skirt the issue. Steam have been fair to me, I have even got games for free when I bought one deal, a better one came out and I got the other games for free to make up for it. (happened with TF2, portal, half life).

What I do agree with is that all companies should have a fair returns policy, I might just check to see if I am happy with the steam contract on a future purchase. Currently I feel I have got as much as I can out of every steam purchase (in most cases I have got more than i feel i paid for).

No - in most cases I do buy direct from steam.

Im not sure what your problem is - but I cant think of any steam issue that a complete wipe of steam and all its games (and all the hidden folders) couldnt solve.

As I said, there are many people with problems like this

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1225073

and many other problems.....

not to mention that many people can't go for ever downloading things continuously.. clients and 2GB games etc...they have a certain download allowance limit from internet providers too..

and all sorts of issues that should not be the customer's burden because of STEAM's inadequate service and refusal to return money if they are responsible for no providing what they promised in the transaction.

In any case Steam entails many risks and if - because of their actions - such as introducing beta clients and whatever else they decide... you happen to find yourself out of the game with no access, you have nothing left.. you buy something which can easily become nothing...

that's how things are...

With all due respect to the OP,people are not going to boycott steam,without a shadow of a doubt Steam offers a great service and a very stable one for a majority of it's millions of users.

I myself have had very little problems with steam in the 5 years i've used it,overall it's a quality platform to buy and play games from.

Edit: regarding the link above,if there is a major issue with this 48% freeze then Valve will fix it,it just needs patience.

I'm sorry for your issues, but people with Steam problems are quite the minority it seems. I personally think Steam is a great platform, with reasonable prices (though I do live in the US, where games are cheaper).

However, I do not think SI need reimburse you or send a CD. You made a choice to purchase from Steam, and whether you read the fine print or not, buying from them constitutes acceptance of Valve's contract. It's not SI's problem nor their responsibility.

As I said, there are many people with problems like this

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1225073

and many other problems.....

not to mention that many people can't go for ever downloading things continuously.. clients and 2GB games etc...they have a certain download allowance limit from internet providers too..

and all sorts of issues that should not be the customer's burden because of STEAM's inadequate service and refusal to return money if they are responsible for no providing what they promised in the transaction.

In any case Steam entails many risks and if - because of their actions - such as introducing beta clients and whatever else they decide... you happen to find yourself out of the game with no access, you have nothing left.. you buy something which can easily become nothing...

that's how things are...

1) That thread really didnt show a lot of people where having that problem - its 17 pages of the same people over and over...

2) The fact that you have a download limit is hardly steams fault is it? Thats like blaming your car for using too much petrol because you only have a £20 a month limit on the amount of fuel you can put in it.

3) If it really was a LOT of people having issues then steam would actually do something about it.

Sorry to sound a bit harsh - but from experiance, the people who complain about steam over and over are people who are either running computers at the very bottom of system requirements (age old lap tops on XP) or people running over clocked monsters with the latest of everything - both have their own issues - old systems are by their nature out of date and have issues because of it - and computers that are so up todate and cutting edge have issues because they are running above and beyond 99.99% of people computers and thus are the ones that find the new issues before everyone else catches up.

If you have a genuine issue and dont fall into either of the above categories, then I genuinuely feel sorry for you - I was really miffed when I couldnt get Empire total war running for 3 days - but as I said - that was my own fault in the end so I cant blame anyone.

However, I do not think SI need reimburse you or send a CD. You made a choice to purchase from Steam, and whether you read the fine print or not, buying from them constitutes acceptance of Valve's contract. It's not SI's problem nor their responsibility.

thanks for your opinion, but sorry I think you are mistaken

Companies have responsibilities too, contractual and moral ones, and these do not disappear because they might cleverly place some small print somewhere.. If the contract is creating an exploitative or contradictory relationship then you can't simply blame the buyer/victim...

I don't think they really want to do that anyway..

By the way, I 'm always puzzled why people who are also customers (and I guess you are!?) will be so eager to blame the customer/victim as you do here - in the name of some abstract notion of ''rational buyer''... you do realise this is not in your interests, don't you?

I do think that SI will take very seriously my request.

I do think that SI will take very seriously my request.

I almost be willing to bet a new copy of the game that you wont get anything other than a stock answer....

You've not been cheated, you're having a technical issue. This is quite different; no one is deliberately trying to deprive you of what you've bought. That being said, I sympathise; these sort of problems can be hard to debug and your average consumer without much technical know-how can't be expected to do it all on their own. Then again, a clean reinstall will resolve these sort of problems with relatively little effort, so you're not completely out of options. Did you try this? If your ISP has bandwidth caps that prevent you from going that route, well, then digitally distributed software may not be the way to go for you. :/ These solutions (both Steam and others) aren't mature enough to work 100% of the time on all different set-ups, so starting over is at times necessary when something goes wrong.

IVe already boycotted steam, I wont even have it on my system to get free games.

I think youd have to be an idiot to use a system where they will stop you using all the games you paid for if you get hacked.

IVe already boycotted steam, I wont even have it on my system to get free games.

I think youd have to be an idiot to use a system where they will stop you using all the games you paid for if you get hacked.

Get hacked? Most people who 'get hacked' is because of a weak password.

If you have a weak password then it is your own fault. If you genuinely get hacked then you will be treated sympathetically. Your suggestion that "they will stop you using all the games you paid for" is not true.

OP I had a problem with steam a little while ago where it was saying scanning for updates. Try and uninstall steam totally including hidden files etc and then reinstall this may solve the problem. What you have to remember is that Valve is first and foremost a Developer and they have also just released the Steam Client for Mac.

I do feel for you on the payment thing and see where you are coming from but even though you don't like it you agreed to no refund when you bought the game.

Once again try what myself and 2 others have said and do a complete reinstall of steam which may solve the problem.

My experience of any digital download formats have pretty much all been negative, though I found steam to be the most stable (though not enough to convince me to purchase anything through it again). I also think although the selection is fantastic and there are good prices to be had, for a Uk user many of the major titles still cost significantly more than a boxed copy from amazon. However its a **** load better than the Eastside Hockey Manager distribution debacle, which not only made it extremely difficult to purchase the game, if I lose my current hard drive I can never play it again due to license issues, and did more to kill the game in question than SI's totally unsubstantiated piracy claim for that title...

I'll say firstly that I've been playing the last two FM's via Steam and have had no problems whatsoever. I would however have thought that any no refunds small print would conflict with consumer law, at least in the Uk anyway. They wouldn't be able to bypass these laws by inserting small print. The fact that the game worked to start with would suggest that your computer is compatible and that the problem is with Steam's software, so unless they fixed this for you and allowed you to receive the service that you have paid for, I would have said that it is illegal not to refund you. This is of course if it is not software illegal or otherwise on your computer(s) that is causing the problem. Maybe it would be worthwhile you giving trading standards a ring and finding out exactly where you stand. If they say Steam are in the wrong maybe threatening them with trading standards would get them to give you the refund so you could buy a boxed copy.

DVD 1 : 0 Digital Download

Never trust anything not in your own hands.

I don't know what UK law is like, but for almost any form of digital download here in the US, once purchased and downloaded, it is ineligible for refund (presumably to prevent copying/theft). That being said, it's not like Steam is preventing the game from being used. The rights to the game are there. But some technical error caused Steam to get stuck midway through the update. Uninstalling and cleaning out all that Steam leaves behind (like hidden and undeleted files, registry entries, etc) and then reinstalling will likely correct the problem.

I have never hade any problem with steam since i first instalted it when Half Life 2 comes out some few years back

DVD 1 : 0 Digital Download

Never trust anything not in your own hands.

Well, if people are like me, they will say exactly the contrary, i wasn't able to play FM09 for some time before FM10 was released because i "lost" my dvd, eheheheh, found it months after FM10 was out, at least with steam i don´t really have this problem, but that is just me and my inability to put things in the proper places.

Truth be told, once there was a problem with steam and i lost every game i had installed with their program, but apart from that, no problems, and the only time i contacted them for anything it went well, still, in this regard i feel a little bit more confortable with D2D, but the instant update of games in steam usualy makes the diference to me.

Hope you get your problem solved.

Steam is a terrible platform and should never be used for a major release. With every single game released there are countless problems that never seem to be sorted. Now sure, the majority of people don't have problems, but there is a large minority out there who buy through steam, never get the game they pay for and never get any help or any kind of refund.

An appalling company that SI should not be doing business with under any circumstances.

With every single game released there are countless problems that never seem to be sorted

Yes.

People who bought Audiosurf were locked out from playing after a Steam update, some people were never able to play the game again.

FM09 and FM10 had several problems with Steam.

Steam recently released an update to the platform which has left a great chunk of users unable to update and consequently unable to access their games, with no support on the forum and no solution.

People who own Civilisation 4 have encountered multiple problems

In general, a quick google search shows that there are many users who repeatedly have issues with logging in or getting steam to re-install on a computer.

I have tried to start my fm save today but for some reason when i click on fm on the desktop to load it up i get the following message

Steam Error

This game is currently available pleasde try again at another time (it has been saying this for about 4 hrs now)

Anyone else having this problem?

As a matter of principle I will never get a game via Steam (nor any content delivery system) unless absolutely necessary. And even then I'd seriously consider boycotting it instead.

The day games are the pure responsibility of third-party "holders" like Steam dictating when and where you can play your game is the day video games die.

You wouldn't park your car in someone else's house instead of your own house except if they are trusted - and do you really trust Steam?

Before long we're going to have games developers picking and choosing favoured third-party content delivery systems which does absolutely no good for competition and consumer rights as it is no different to a monopoly, developers attempting to control parts of the supply chain they never had control over in the first place and should not have control over. You sell your game, you bugger off and make a new one.

I accept my view is in the minority but I was disheartened to learn that SI started giving out Steam-only features (i.e. an old skin, which was amazing and should have been in the boxed game). To me, it is a smack in the face to those buyers who bought the boxed set and a sign SI wants to favour Steam in some way. No game developer should favour a third-party medium for developers to obtain its games from. I want lots of options to buy the game, be it Steam, Amazon, supermarkets or eBay, and I expect the same game from all these sources.

If SI wants to favour Steam they'd better give us a good reason to favour it, because there will always be people who want the DVD and game in their full control.

Steam is a risk.

I buy nearly all of my games via steam and have never ever had a problem. The only gripe is that it can take ages for the price to go down.

Download and install on any pc, automatic updates, achievements..can't complain, much better than buying a DVD.

Rubbish. Would much rather have a DVD in my hands. Can just pop it in and play. With Steam, the user is not in control, always has to be connected to the internet to play and is relying on a third party to play something they have already bought.

It is hard enough getting some games to work properly when you are installing simply from physical media (FM *ahem*), but when you add yet another layer of complications that is complex enough to rely on both the internet and another pile of code - it's just a redundancy that causes unnecessary problems for people.

While I understand that it is tempting for publishers to save money and carbon emissions on printing and manufacturing, there has to be a better way.

Hi wakers, I'm glad we disagree although I prefere steam to having a DVD. Oh by the way you can play fm offline, I do constantly as the wireless in my new home never works . Start steam in offline mode, pretty simple huh?

I would much rather have a DVD in my hand then buying through Steam. I don't buy through Steam for two main reasons: I don't really like PC games anymore (much prefer consoles, so I have now bought FM 2010 Handheld), and the prices on Steam are a complete rip-off. Why should anyone pay full price on Steam when the price should in fact be cheaper because there are no discs, boxes or instruction manuals to prove? Also, reading on the forums it is obvious that Valve have a holier-than-thou attitude towards there customers, they think the we are subservant to them. I argue about this with my brother on a regular basis because he swears buy Steam, but in short I hate Steam and would urge anyone to stop using it for the reasons outlined above.

Valve are notoriously brilliant to their customers, check out the half life series for proof on that! People not liking steam due to things such as no DVD/case/paper manual is fair enough although people raging about steam with miss-informed information is pretty annoying.

If all game publishers dropped DVDs and placed all products online I wonder how much greener the world would be?

If all game publishers dropped DVDs and placed all products online I wonder how much greener the world would be?

Also, I wonder what the state of consumer rights would be at that stage?

Unless it's actually a downloadable ISO without this Steam overhead and layer, it will be a terrible landscape for consumers.

Valve are notoriously brilliant to their customers, check out the half life series for proof on that! People not liking steam due to things such as no DVD/case/paper manual is fair enough although people raging about steam with miss-informed information is pretty annoying.

If all game publishers dropped DVDs and placed all products online I wonder how much greener the world would be?

Hardly, 24/7 electricity for the server, air-conditioner etc...

Which uses coal, fuel as their main energy source..

Valve are notoriously brilliant to their customers, check out the half life series for proof on that! People not liking steam due to things such as no DVD/case/paper manual is fair enough although people raging about steam with miss-informed information is pretty annoying.

If all game publishers dropped DVDs and placed all products online I wonder how much greener the world would be?

With regards to their products I would agree, however as you can see from this thread and countless others on these and their own forums they are not so good to Steam customers. Honestly over 24 hours to respond to a support request and then to get info that I found on this forum is not support. Its lazy and half arsed. I love Half Life, Portal etc but have lost lots of love for them for this ridiculous Steam service.

Never used steam and never will.

Yes.

People who bought Audiosurf were locked out from playing after a Steam update, some people were never able to play the game again.

FM09 and FM10 had several problems with Steam.

Steam recently released an update to the platform which has left a great chunk of users unable to update and consequently unable to access their games, with no support on the forum and no solution.

People who own Civilisation 4 have encountered multiple problems

In general, a quick google search shows that there are many users who repeatedly have issues with logging in or getting steam to re-install on a computer.

I have all those games from steam, not a single issue with any here! I can name at least 4 others I talk to who have had the same experience as me but none who share yours!

Seeing as this year you can get the DVD and still register it with Steam, there's absolutely no sense behind the steam hate. Want the DVD? Buy it. Dislike Steam, don't use it. Like steam? Either buy it via steam for the midnight launch or get a cheaper disk copy and use the steam code.

Steam is a risk.

As is online banking, shopping online, eBay and anything where you spend money.

We all take risks every day of our lives, I know the risks of Steam but they are pale in comparison to many other things in life. I have taken the risks and not been burnt in 5 years...

I know more people who have been screwed over by eBay than by steam yet eBay is used by millions worldwide everyday... as is Steam

To be honest, I look forward to the day I rid my shelves of disks and have it all on things like Steam, for those who worry but have extra HD space, Steam has a handy back up feature that is GROSSLY underused

I've not had issues with Steam; in fact, I would say I'm a very happy customer. Anyway, in response to the OP: can you not play FM10 directly in offline mode, I.e. By navigating to the installation folder and double clicking the FM10 exe file?

If SI wants to favour Steam they'd better give us a good reason to favour it,

Cutting costs.

I know it means little to us, the customer, but all the sell-out developers out there will be foaming at the mouth over that prospect.