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speople
14-06-2010, 11:08
Anyone who has played the same season twice, for example the very 1st season, will almost obviously notice that one very important factor, which has arguably the greatest influence on a match, the weather, isn't actually random at all. It is completely fixed.

EVERY game that is played on the same date will always produce exactly the same weather, temp, wind, precipitation, frost, snow etc whether you play that season once, or play it a hundred times.

WTF ???

Each season obviously comes with its own weather machine, and the game already knows the temperature, wind and precipitation of every place on earth almost a full year in advance.

If that is not a blatant case of out and out cheating to favour the AI teams then I don't know what is.

Absolute shame on SI for not randomizing it. How many lines of code more than 1 does it take to do so ? (IMO just the 1)

They can get the game and the ME to do this, that and the other, yet they can't even bother to write that 1 line to make what should be a random event, indeed a random event. :thdn::thdn::thdn::thdn:

So remember folks, next time you lose an important game, and the weather was appalling, you can thank the fact that SI decided that that CL away SF leg 2 was going to have snow in May (or whatever) way back in June of the previous year when the new set of lg fixtures etc was generated.

dontask
14-06-2010, 11:23
think your making a mountain out of a molehill here. over a distance of time you have to deal with all types of weather so there is a fair enough balance. to me the only problem is there is only 1 game postponed for snow on the game where as in real life we all know it affects a good sized area and sees many games called off

__BOB__
14-06-2010, 11:28
Why not have real time weather effects just like tiger woods for the ps3?

or will that be a bad idea

bigdunk
14-06-2010, 11:29
Why are you playing the same season twice? If the game is played as it is intended, there is absolutely no difference if the weather is randomly decided ahead of time, or if it is randomly decided on the day. And how on earth do you figure that this is cheating to favour the AI teams? It's exactly the same weather for both AI and human teams.

speople
14-06-2010, 11:30
Yes we have to deal with all types of weather over time, but to be fair to both the human player and the AI, the weather for each match should be more or less random (decided on the day) heck, weather can change in 2 mins, and yet here we have a case where all the weather for the entire season is decided on the 25th June and it (the weather) doesn't budge from that preordained selection.

bigdunk
14-06-2010, 11:33
How is it unfair to the human players? Just because the weather has been determined in advance doesn't mean that the AI managers have access to this information. They will get access to this information at the exact same time you do.

dontask
14-06-2010, 11:33
i know lets stuff all other improvements for fm11 so SI can work on a perfect weather system :D or why dont you just find something more important to moan about

speople
14-06-2010, 11:34
Why are you playing the same season twice? .

I've played the same season (the 1st one) a number of times to try and get an unbeaten lg season, and it quickly became apparent that the weather for each game was already laid out upon the creation of a new game.

Neji
14-06-2010, 11:59
I'm not sure why this is a problem at all. I don't see how it is an advantage to the AI and I don't see the problem in deciding the weather before the season starts. The game has to decide the weather at some point. Plus, if you weren't replaying a season, you wouldn't even know about it.

RedZone85
14-06-2010, 12:03
I've played the same season (the 1st one) a number of times to try and get an unbeaten lg season, and it quickly became apparent that the weather for each game was already laid out upon the creation of a new game.

It is your tactics or your team is too poor in quality ;)

robertcornell68
14-06-2010, 12:09
I'll admit that I had assumed the weather was decided randomly before each game.

Now I know different.

Shrug.

Puevlo
14-06-2010, 12:12
Probably because the seasons are the same time every year.

speople
14-06-2010, 12:16
Why are you playing the same season twice? If the game is played as it is intended, there is absolutely no difference if the weather is randomly decided ahead of time, or if it is randomly decided on the day. And how on earth do you figure that this is cheating to favour the AI teams? It's exactly the same weather for both AI and human teams.


It is your tactics or your team is too poor in quality ;)

Not really, I've already managed it with them. Did it 1st go with current squad. 38, 2, 0

Just trying again with them now to see if I can get it to 40, 0, 0 (currently 22, 0, 0 and flying now that this season I have put Janez Resnik as the central striker of my 3 CF's, instead of to one of the sides where I put him in the previous 38, 2, 0 attempt) And lo and behold, after missing the 1st 4 games due to injury, he is currently on a run of 6 straight MoM's and counting.

Blue Saint
14-06-2010, 12:22
I think it should be random not preset, thatīs weird...

Piethief100
14-06-2010, 12:39
Well look at the brightside of this complaint, it's another excuse to use. I'm not rubbish and it isn't my tactics - it's the weather.

Kenco
14-06-2010, 13:04
Not sure how it benefits the AI.

Also, have you actually played the same season 100 times to back up your statement?

Blue Saint
14-06-2010, 13:15
Not sure how it benefits the AI.

Also, have you actually played the same season 100 times to back up your statement?
Yes. 100 times no more no less.
Maybe 10 times or so will suffice or do we have to be like chairmen today? :rolleyes:

speople
14-06-2010, 13:19
Not sure how it benefits the AI.

Also, have you actually played the same season 100 times to back up your statement?

On a previous creation I played the 1st season no end of times trying to go unbeaten, and weather was always the same.

Created the game again a few days ago to try to go unbeaten with slightly different personnel, (all free transfers btw at lv 7). And managed it at the 1st attempt 38, 2, 0

Reloaded the sn back in yesterday to see if I could manage 40, 0, 0 by moving what proved to be my best and most consistent striker of my 3 CF tactic, into the central position of those 3. and weather is the same as it was the previous time I played it, as I remember the date I got a postponement due to a w/logged pitch, and the time I played away in snow. (Currently 25, 0, 0 btw now)

Irchard
14-06-2010, 15:31
I'm not sure why this is a problem at all. I don't see how it is an advantage to the AI and I don't see the problem in deciding the weather before the season starts. The game has to decide the weather at some point. Plus, if you weren't replaying a season, you wouldn't even know about it.

This.

This thread is definitely one of the weirder rants I've seen on here.

jod123
14-06-2010, 15:35
I don't see the problem. I would imagine there is some randomness in the weather anyway. So what if it is decided a year in advance.

Cup draws are another thing in the game that are generated in advance of the actual date when it happens. There are probably other areas as well where things like this happen. It is often a good and sometimes the best way to go about programming things like this, to have the calculations already made under the hood but let it appear to the user that it is done on the day or whatever.

Irchard
14-06-2010, 15:41
I don't see the problem. I would imagine there is some randomness in the weather anyway. So what if it is decided a year in advance.

Cup draws are another thing in the game that are generated in advance of the actual date when it happens. There are probably other areas as well where things like this happen. It is often a good and sometimes the best way to go about programming things like this, to have the calculations already made under the hood but let it appear to the user that it is done on the day or whatever.

Agreed. I suspect quite a lot of stuff is decided on the 25th of June (for the UK, I know that date is different in other leagues). It would be annoying if we had to wait an extra second or two (just a guess, no idea how long it would actually take) for the game to calculate every little detail for that day every time we hit continue.

speople
14-06-2010, 15:44
Cup draws are another thing in the game that are generated in advance of the actual date when it happens. .

Yeah, that was something else I also noticed.

Out of all the tens of teams teams available in the first playable FA Q round, I would always play the same 2 or 3 at the same venue.

This is nothing new though, I would alaways invariably get one of the big 4 on CM4 in the FA Lg cup rounds as a small club.

ANDEHLSON
15-06-2010, 10:00
People actually care about the weather? :confused:

I never check it tbh...

Ezequiel_Lavezzi
15-06-2010, 12:35
Yes we have to deal with all types of weather over time, but to be fair to both the human player and the AI, the weather for each match should be more or less random (decided on the day) heck, weather can change in 2 mins

What an idiotic post...

I have a friend that works for the Bureau of Meteorology and I know for a fact that weather can be predicted and quite accurately many months in advance.

Certain events cannot be predicted like sudden drops/rises that can cause a natural disaster like a tornado etc, but temperatures, precipitation and pressure systems can be guaged quite easily.

In a recent documentary I watched, they even worked out the weather 4000 years into the future by using statistical information.

I really hope people stop whining about useless topics with nothing but their own idiotic opinionated ideas.

:rolleyes:

speople
15-06-2010, 13:30
What an idiotic post...

I have a friend that works for the Bureau of Meteorology and I know for a fact that weather can be predicted and quite accurately many months in advance.

Certain events cannot be predicted like sudden drops/rises that can cause a natural disaster like a tornado etc, but temperatures, precipitation and pressure systems can be guaged quite easily.

In a recent documentary I watched, they even worked out the weather 4000 years into the future by using statistical information.

I really hope people stop whining about useless topics with nothing but their own idiotic opinionated ideas.

:rolleyes:


What complete and utter rubbish !!

In a country like England the forecasters can't even tell you properly what the weather is gonna be like the next day without getting it wrong . Never mind months in advance. And bordering the Pennines etc they wouldn't even be able to tell you what would happen in the next 5 mins.

As for 4000 years in advance, well words fail me as regards intelligence and gullibility if someone truly believes they can do that. Probably the type of person who believes England will ever win nother World Cup.

aderow
15-06-2010, 13:50
speople you are making a big deal out of something very very small.
The weather is not something that will effect you more than it affects the AI.
Yes, the game randomly predicts the weather....it has too; there are many other aspects of the game that have to be....I mean its not like we get decide what the weather should be on a particular day.
But why would you play the same season twice? The whole point of playing a game is to enjoy yourself. When you start doing things like this, you start to make it chore and not something that is meant to enjoy. If want to get a 100% so badly then make some good signings before the coming season.
This game is not linear where you have to win every game, their not levels that you fail.
You can shoot for perfection, but if you don't achieve it there's no need to rage quit and restart the whole season; just aim for it in the next season.






So remember folks, next time you lose an important game, and the weather was appalling, you can thank the fact that SI decided that that CL away SF leg 2 was going to have snow in May (or whatever) way back in June of the previous year when the new set of lg fixtures etc was generated.

Now when did this happen to you? Have you actually gotten snow in May?

GillsMan
15-06-2010, 14:03
What an idiotic post...

I have a friend that works for the Bureau of Meteorology and I know for a fact that weather can be predicted and quite accurately many months in advance.

:rolleyes:
It really can't. I suggest you read up on Chaos Theory for reasons why it can't be accurately predicted.

Plus, I could quite easily predict the weather 4000 years in advance. After all, who's going to prove me wrong?

Back on topic, if the weather is decided in June, I agree with the poster who said it could be to do with speeding the game up/cutting down on processing time.

speople
15-06-2010, 14:08
speople you are making a big deal out of something very very small.
The weather is not something that will effect you more than it affects the AI.
Yes, the game randomly predicts the weather....it has too; there are many other aspects of the game that have to be....I mean its not like we get decide what the weather should be on a particular day.
But why would you play the same season twice? The whole point of playing a game is to enjoy yourself. When you start doing things like this, you start to make it chore and not something that is meant to enjoy. If want to get a 100% so badly then make some good signings before the coming season.
This game is not linear where you have to win every game, their not levels that you fail.
You can shoot for perfection, but if you don't achieve it there's no need to rage quit and restart the whole season; just aim for it in the next season.





Now when did this happen to you? Have you actually gotten snow in May?

Perfection in a lg season is v hard to achieve, was much easier on CM4 where there were no TT's etc.

On CM4 (where great players were easy to get) I had to start the 1st season with a perfect record in both Italy (Serie C2C) , and England (Conference) at the SAME time, or else I saw it as a failure and just quit the game. (Many times I would fail almost at the end, once even in the last match)

Here on FM2010, I settle for just a lossless lg season as it is v v difficult to attract anyone with any reasonable stats to a tier 7 club that will enable you to get perfection. There will always be at least a couple of games where you just can't stick it in the net for love or money, got to 29th game yesterday and had 9 sot but it ended as 0-0.

Not seen snow in May, but have seen a permanent 0 degrees and frost on the ground on the 7th of October in a previously created game.

Maybe it is all about nothing, but even so, I can't help feeling cheated somehow that the weather is decided way way way in advance and never budges from what it decides even after you quit play for the day then restart the next morning.

aderow
15-06-2010, 14:27
Perfection in a lg season is v hard to achieve, was much easier on CM4 where there were no TT's etc.

On CM4 (where great players were easy to get) I had to start the 1st season with a perfect record in both Italy (Serie C2C) , and England (Conference) at the SAME time, or else I saw it as a failure and just quit the game. (Many times I would fail almost at the end, once even in the last match)

Here on FM2010, I settle for just a lossless lg season as it is v v difficult to attract anyone with any reasonable stats to a tier 7 club that will enable you to get perfection. There will always be at least a couple of games where you just can't stick it in the net for love or money, got to 29th game yesterday and had 9 sot but it ended as 0-0.

Not seen snow in May, but have seen a permanent 0 degrees and frost on the ground on the 7th of October in a previously created game.

Maybe it is all about nothing, but even so, I can't help feeling cheated somehow that the weather is decided way way way in advance and never budges from what it decides even after you quit play for the day then restart the next morning.

Well you shouldn't feel cheated. If the weather was not visible until a few days before each match, then you would not be complaining. And that is probably what they should have done.

tdj.fenner
15-06-2010, 15:32
instead of ranting about the fact that the weather is the same if you repeat your first season, can i ask, how does certain types of weather affect your playing styles?

say for example, if it was raining and i normally played short, quick passing, would i have to reduce the tempo slightly to stop the ball flying across the pitch yards in front of my player?

i only ask because if the weather does have a noticeable affect on my team's playing style, then i would like to use the weather to my advantage. plus it would be more logical, if it is was gale force winds, you would hardly play long ball (because you don't know the direction of the wind on the game)

speople
15-06-2010, 15:53
instead of ranting about the fact that the weather is the same if you repeat your first season, can i ask, how does certain types of weather affect your playing styles?

say for example, if it was raining and i normally played short, quick passing, would i have to reduce the tempo slightly to stop the ball flying across the pitch yards in front of my player?

i only ask because if the weather does have a noticeable affect on my team's playing style, then i would like to use the weather to my advantage. plus it would be more logical, if it is was gale force winds, you would hardly play long ball (because you don't know the direction of the wind on the game)


Wind in FM2010 seems to make NO difference whatsoever. You can play in a gale, and the players will still knock it around as normal, and there will still be the same reasonable amount of throw ins as per a normal wind game.

Unlike CM4 (only other version I played), where wind WAS noticeable. The ball noticably went a lot further, or hardly anywhere at all (esp from gk's) depending in which half you played. And you would get almost 100 throw ins, plus hardly any passes by any players on the pitch, and shots also visibly went much less/further too. As regards weather, FM2010 is a big step back from 6 years ago.

tdj.fenner
15-06-2010, 16:24
thanks for that speople. it just seems to be more of a pointless cosmetic effect then? i wouldn't mind having someone from SI kindly clear this up for me.

speople
15-06-2010, 16:35
thanks for that speople. it just seems to be more of a pointless cosmetic effect then? i wouldn't mind having someone from SI kindly clear this up for me.

All 3 of my CB's are set to just do long balls. Wind makes absolutely no difference to the number of times they connect with a player in the games I've played. So yes, seems it's just there as a stat rather than a ME variable that can affect a match.

Never seen my players tiring any quicker either in games played in more than 30 degrees, than they do in normal matches.

Look at the CL or Europa lg, no teams like playing in Russia, cos it is bloody freezing at that time, yet on the CM/FM series, it just isn't taken into account for the travelling side.

Or vice versa if a team plays in the v hot weather in Portugal or Spain.

IMO definitely needs another 2 attributes as regards how well a player plays in hot/cold conditions.

joetheref
15-06-2010, 16:41
Out of all the tens of teams teams available in the first playable FA Q round, I would always play the same 2 or 3 at the same venue.


The FA organise the draw like this so the small clubs dont have to pay loads of travel expenses I think, could be an old rule though

tdj.fenner
15-06-2010, 16:45
All 3 of my CB's are set to just do long balls. Wind makes absolutely no difference to the number of times they connect with a player in the games I've played. So yes, seems it's just there as a stat rather than a ME variable that can affect a match.

Never seen my players tiring any quicker either in games played in more than 30 degrees, than they do in normal matches.

Look at the CL or Europa lg, no teams like playing in Russia, cos it is bloody freezing at that time, yet on the CM/FM series, it just isn't taken into account for the travelling side.

Or vice versa if a team plays in the v hot weather in Portugal or Spain.

IMO definitely needs another 2 attributes as regards how well a player plays in hot/cold conditions.

i am in 100% agreement with you. but i think that the determination and bravery would somewhat dictate how they would handle the weather. but alas there is much to be improved within the frame we call Football Manager. Injuries, the ME, Interaction with the players and media, the list goes on.

Football Manager is truly a great game, but does not herald to the hardcore fans who buy it year-on-year as it should.

speople
15-06-2010, 16:45
The FA organise the draw like this so the small clubs dont have to pay loads of travel expenses I think, could be an old rule though

Thinking about it, that would be just about a correct call. At that lv, no team wants to pay to travel to the oter end of the country on such limited budgets.

tdpatriots12
15-06-2010, 16:49
"Utterly appalling"

http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez2z29.jpg

charlstonbigspuds
15-06-2010, 16:51
speople i think you need to get something better to do than constantly playing the same season over n over to get the perfect season

speople
15-06-2010, 17:06
speople i think you need to get something better to do than constantly playing the same season over n over to get the perfect season

I'm already in my 2nd season now, so don't worry, I won't be replaying any more seasons :)

Currently unbeaten in 7 there too, so 3 more and I will be breaking Arsenal's record.

edgar555
15-06-2010, 18:25
I'm not sure why this is a problem at all. I don't see how it is an advantage to the AI and I don't see the problem in deciding the weather before the season starts. The game has to decide the weather at some point. Plus, if you weren't replaying a season, you wouldn't even know about it.

This :thup:

Galo
16-06-2010, 03:06
One issue with the weather is that it is Northern Hemisphere-centric. What that means is that in game July is always summer weather and Janurary is always winter weather. As we all hopefully know in the Southern Hemisphere the seasons are the opposite.

So a match played in southern Brazil in July should not be 32 degrees C. 5-10 for a night match and 18-23 for day matches would be more accurate. Same goes for all Southern Hemisphere nations in the game, such as Australia, South Africa, Argentina, Chile, etc....

I always noticed this mistake yet I never remembered to bring it up. I was suprised that SI would not catch something like that, but now that this thread shows how weather seems to hold VERY LITTLE importance in game I can see how it happened.

Argie86
16-06-2010, 03:55
What an idiotic post...

I have a friend that works for the Bureau of Meteorology and I know for a fact that weather can be predicted and quite accurately many months in advance.

Certain events cannot be predicted like sudden drops/rises that can cause a natural disaster like a tornado etc, but temperatures, precipitation and pressure systems can be guaged quite easily.

In a recent documentary I watched, they even worked out the weather 4000 years into the future by using statistical information.

I really hope people stop whining about useless topics with nothing but their own idiotic opinionated ideas.

:rolleyes:

Yes, that`s why they are almost always wrong :p

andyinuk
16-06-2010, 09:23
If anyone that is cheating in this situation, it would be you and not the AI because only you know the exact weather one year in advance. It's not like the AI would know it is replaying the season all over again and prepare for that. AI still needs to deal with the game as if the first time, while you don't

Dave C
16-06-2010, 10:26
I have a friend that works for the Bureau of Meteorology and I know for a fact that weather can be predicted and quite accurately many months in advance.

Your friend is winding you up. You can predict general trends in the climate, but you cannot predict weather with any real degree of accuracy more than about 24 hours into the future. It's a non-linear system.


Certain events cannot be predicted like sudden drops/rises that can cause a natural disaster like a tornado etc, but temperatures, precipitation and pressure systems can be guaged quite easily.

Again, general trends in temperature, precipitation, pressure can be estimated. But that's not the same as predicting the weather, it's predicting climate. And even that's not that accurate.


In a recent documentary I watched, they even worked out the weather 4000 years into the future by using statistical information.

Guesswork would be about as accurate. And as someone else said, the beauty of making a prediction for long after we're all dead is, no-one can say you were wrong.


I really hope people stop whining about useless topics with nothing but their own idiotic opinionated ideas.

It was a fair issue to raise, and as has been demonstrated, your opinions are no better.

Montanaro
26-06-2010, 02:19
So, the cool thing to do is to blame your poor tactics on the weather?

x42bn6
26-06-2010, 02:44
Fair issue despite all the whining. Random number generators should not be seeded predictably at the start of the game - they should be a function of, say, system time which gives a proper seeding.

Oypus
26-06-2010, 04:54
You know...when two teams play each other, they usually play in the same weather. So that AI team doesn't really get any advantage from it...raining... :rolleyes:

Utterly appalling? Really? Strong words. I can think of only one thing in this sport that phrase could ever apply to, and that's the French national team. :D