The "passing" attribute needs changed.

I've always hated this one, and heres why.

Passing

As a midfielder myself, there is more than passing than meets the eye.

• Short Passing

Long passing

Now, i refer to you another attribute!

Shooting

Notice this isn't and actual attribute?...this is two pulled together under the one, like the passing attribute has.

Shooting is a mixture of Long shots and finnishing so why isnt passing split into Long passing and short passing?

Heres what i mean.

I take you to Neil Lennon, he could make simple 5-15yard passes side-ways and back all day, that was his game. But he could never switch a ball with ease that Pirlo can, but still his passing attribute didn't reflect that his short passing was perfect.

So my point is that passing should be split up into "Short Passing" and "Long passing"

Good point

Short Passing - Passing

Long Passing - Crossing

A Long pass is just a cross that isnt into the box. Or sometime, it into the box but not from out wide so the dont deem it a "cross".

But basically, a cross is just a long pass.

And if the engine doesnt work it like that, it should.

Originally posted by DiamondPirate:

Short Passing - Passing

Long Passing - Crossing

A Long pass is just a cross that isnt into the box. Or sometime, it into the box but not from out wide so the dont deem it a "cross".

But basically, a cross is just a long pass.

And if the engine doesnt work it like that, it

should.

Dont think it works like that, look at fabregas in the game, easily one of the best passers in the world and rightfully has 20 for passing, but crossing is only 11

Not true to his real life passing ability if what you're saying is true!

Originally posted by DiamondPirate:

Short Passing - Passing

Long Passing - Crossing

A Long pass is just a cross that isnt into the box. Or sometime, it into the box but not from out wide so the dont deem it a "cross".

But basically, a cross is just a long pass.

And if the engine doesnt work it like that, it should.

No.

It's not.

You couldn't have made a wronger statement.

Originally posted by PoopyPants:

No.

It's not.

You couldn't have made a wronger statement.

Interesting. The only incorrect part of my statement would have been if I had said that this was certainly how it worked in the match engine. I actually pointed out that it may not work like that. I merely pointed out that the need for an additional stat isnt needed because crossing should (if it wasnt already) be used for it.

So, I can only assume that you either didnt read all of my post, or just felt like boosting your net ego by trying to mock someone. Which hasnt worked to any real level of efficency. And you've contributed nothing to the topic.

@FM-L - Yeah, your right. And since Fabregas can play a long ball in the game too...

Originally posted by DiamondPirate:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PoopyPants:

No.

It's not.

You couldn't have made a wronger statement.

Interesting. The only incorrect part of my statement would have been if I had said that this was certainly how it worked in the match engine. I actually pointed out that it may not work like that. I merely pointed out that the need for an additional stat isnt needed because crossing should (if it wasnt already) be used for it.

So, I can only assume that you either didnt read all of my post, or just felt like boosting your net ego by trying to mock someone. Which hasnt worked to any real level of efficency. And you've contributed nothing to the topic.

@FM-L - Yeah, your right. And since Fabregas can play a long ball in the game too... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You said that that is how it should work in the game if it already doesn't.

Which it shouldn't because they are two totally different things.

surely passing is also a mixture of more than 1 attribute.

just like your example of shooting being lolng shots and finishing (i do dispute that though, peple who have a good shot don't necessarily need a good long shots attribute) passing is also affected by the persons technique and ability to read the game.

i would say if you have good anticipation,good technique and good vision AS WELL as good passing, thenyour long passing will be good

Originally posted by PoopyPants:

No.

It's not.

You couldn't have made a wronger statement.

Yes, he could have, by using the word "wronger".

@OP, I think there does need to be 2 categories for passing.

Originally posted by Konnan511:

Yes, he could have, by using the word "wronger".

Your my new hero. Although I can't believe I missed that myself

But a Long Pass requires the same skills as a short pass if its along the floor, or if its in the air its the same skills at a cross.

a cross only relates to a ball from the wing into the box (or an attacking area). if the RM plays the ball to the LM on the halfway line, it's usually refered to as a square pass, or cross-field ball, depending on the distance across field.

as far as shooting is concerned, finishing is different from shooting from any distance. if RVN taps the ball in from 6 yards out after a Robinho cross (see ), it wouldn't be hailed as a good shot, but a good "finish". and if RVN cracks one from 25 yards after running from the centre circle, it would be a great "shot", where as rounding the keeper after a similar run and tapping it in would be a great run and "finish".

As "crossing" u refer to as actually switching the ball not crossing, this would actually refer to vision or decisions but vision is a hidden attribute

This is an interesting topic, and something I have thought about lots and lots of times. And I especially agree with DiamongPirate.

I always take the example of Guti. I've seen lots of players, all of the best passers in the world. I love seeing matches and videos where they play.

However, I think I could never find a more talented passer than Guti when it comes to passes along the floor, like DiamondPirate said. Not Kaká, not Cesc, not anyone that I've seen has that implicit ability to create a goal chance out of nothing.

Generally, good passers are good at both things more or less, but there are situations when they're specially outstanding at one of them, while being also quite good at the other... and this is the case.

Guti can make good long (over the air) passes, as he has an excellent technique which allows him to be very precise. But his really strong point is "low" passing... and especially "long and low" passing. Those kind of balls that seem to completely tear the opposing team apart in two pieces, leaving your striker alone with the goalkeeper in a one on one, and their coach wondering how the heck did he screw his whole defensive system with just one pass.

Of course, these passes can also be short. But it is when he makes a pass from his own pitch into the opposing box along the floor, when his real skill becomes truly visible.

On the other hand, you can hardly find better long "over the air" passers than Pirlo or even Becks in his best times, but they aren't necessarily so good at low passing, whatever the "length" of those balls is.

So yes, I definately agree that the passing skill should be divided in 2 or more categories (I don't know if crossing is used for long/high ones, but it still needs refining).

While I consider the "creativity" attribute (which I consider the ability to SEE the possible pass) enough to define it mentally , I consider "passing" alone isn't enough to decide if the guy will be able to accomplish the pass, without paying attention to the length or the height of the kick required to make it.

Originally posted by Klimowicz:

a cross only relates to a ball from the wing into the box (or an attacking area). if the RM plays the ball to the LM on the halfway line, it's usually refered to as a square pass, or cross-field ball, depending on the distance across field, but not a cross.

just thought i'd clear that up a little.

I think the way it's supposed to work is that someone with a high passing stat can master both short and long passes, while someone with average or below can only mange the short passing effectively, or to put it differently: The higher the passing stat, the more range a player has with his passing.

Creativity is obviously also important, along with other skills like technique and ability to master it with either feet.

So I think in order to reflect a player like Lennon and make him do what he is most suited to, can be archived by giving him instructions to do short passes and limit through balls. I think you'll find he'll be very accurate with this range of passing.

I kind of agree that it's a good suggestion, because it doesn't account for some players that falls outside of the generalized way of thinking. I would say, though, that there are more important things to sort out.

I think high decisions, low flair and the "plays short simple passes" with an average passing rating is adequate reflection of a player who rarely gives the ball away but doesn't make longer passes.

Originally posted by FM_LEGEND:

I've always hated this one, and heres why.

Passing

As a midfielder myself, there is more than passing than meets the eye.

• Short Passing

Long passing

Now, i refer to you another attribute!

Shooting

Notice this isn't and actual attribute?...this is two pulled together under the one, like the passing attribute has.

Shooting is a mixture of Long shots and finnishing so why isnt passing split into Long passing and short passing?

Heres what i mean.

I take you to Neil Lennon, he could make simple 5-15yard passes side-ways and back all day, that was his game. But he could never switch a ball with ease that Pirlo can, but still his passing attribute didn't reflect that his short passing was perfect.

So my point is that passing should be split up into "Short Passing" and "Long passing"

I'm tempted to aggree with the OP, but i'd be concerned it would lead to splitting of other attributes e.g. shot power and shot acuracy in the CM series, which is just pants.

I also think that most players are able to do the 5-15 yard passes described in the Op. I think the passing stat show the player's overall competence at passing which includes long and short passing.

The finishing and long shots stats are there for a reason as well. Look at Van Nistelrooy, in the box you'd back him to score 90% of the time, outside it he rarely scores. If long shots and finishing were included as one stat this would bring players like Van Nistelrooy stats down and thus wouldn't be a true reflection of their abilities.

it does need to be split imo. also imo i a cross is the same as a long pass. a cross isnt really that long if you think about it, not exactly a 50 yard through ball is it, its just from the side onto someones head, they need different skils. although i agree that breaking passing down would also mean others have to be broke down, tackling/slide tackling, defensive heading/ heading(shooting).

I'm going to disagree with everyone and say we don't need a long passing attribute, and we also don't need a long shot attribute, and maybe not even a crossing attribute.

Any player with good technique can hit a shot powerfully, or nonchalantly ping a ball across the field, or deftly flick a pass over a defender's head with his heel.

I'm going to refer to Cristiano Ronaldo a couple of years ago. He had all the technique he has now, but had "no end product" (couldn't help but use the cliché).

The difference would be the finishing and passing attributes. Ronaldo always could power a frightening shot, or whip a cross beyond the first three defenders. The difference now is the usefulness of the shots and passes. Now Ronaldo can pick shots that would beat a keeper instead of powering it into his hands, or lead a cross on to a on-running striker's head.

Darthinsinuate,

I have to toally disagree. By your reckoning if a player is technically gifted he should be able to finish whether it's long or in the box. Rooney would be te obvious example, where his long shots are actually better than his finishing, Fernanod Torres is very technically gifted, and has scored a few long range goals but his finishing is definately better than his long shot. There has to be that difference, between a lethal finisher and a gifted forward e.g. Van Nistelrooy and Berbatov, their technical ability wouldn't be enough to distinguish them in the box or outside the box.

In the same context, Ryan Giggs has immense technical ability and is a great passer of the ball but is pants when it comes to crossing. We are doing him a diservice if we lower his passing because it incorporates crossing, and in another way we would be giving him too much in the crossing department by basing it on technical ability.

Originally posted by Nomis07:

Darthinsinuate,

I have to toally disagree. By your reckoning if a player is technically gifted he should be able to finish whether it's long or in the box.

Exactly. If Rooney, Torres, and Berbatov all had the same technical ability, they would all score equally from in or out of the box.

I'm sure Van Nistelrooy is every bit capable of scoring from range as Rooney, he just doesn't get into those positions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJEf5q2gkr0