Improved "top end" regen system in FM 11?

To start off with, I like what FM 10 has done with regens to an extent, so this isn't a post attempting to criticise SI or FM. SI have done a commendable job when it comes to creating a regen system whereby average to good players are generated frequently and spread across the various continents. However, I feel that more needs to be done to increase enjoyment of the long term game with regards to the regen system in particular, and that although SI will undoubtedly improve the regen system in bits for FM 11, I hope that they implement a key few concepts that makes the long-term game far more "realistic" and enjoyable. I get that some people will think it's fine and do enjoy the long-term game highly, and also that for some players there will be examples of individual regens who might be good, and that's fine for those players, but I'm sure for many of us it still feels a bit empty when getting to the stage where real-life start-game players all retire and the game becomes regen-only because of the game-wide drop in quality of regen players.

So, to list the improvements I'm sure many of us would like to see along with an explanation in comparison to start game players or real life trends, I'd say the following:

1) Increase the quality and quantity of top class regens, with raised all-round stats and hidden/mental/personal attributes in particular.

2) Allow the regen system to produce genuine legendary type players on a frequent basis over a long term.

3) Allow the regen system to produce rare but genuine world class players who are immediately at the top of their game as soon as they turn professional.

Just to state the obvious, "start-game" players are players we get at the start of the game who exist in the real world and who's stats are based on real-life observations. Also, "position-specific stats" refers to those attributes that are more relevant to the player's position. E.g. for an attacking midfielder, creativity, passing, technique, off the ball, etc, might be deemed being more relevant than work rate, tackling, aggression, etc.

Moving on to the above 3 points:

1) Increase the quality and quantity of top class players, with raised all-round stats and hidden/mental/personal attributes in particular.

In all the long-term (i.e. 20 years plus) 10.3 games I've played, I've seen a good number of "good" regens who on the face of it would be in between start-game world class players and what one might deem to be an "average" player (good target-men and attacking midfielder regens are especially widely available - although good regen goalkeepers do seem to be ultra rare and therefore a problem). However, they often have weak non-position specific stats (so like a centreback who is strong defensively but very poor technically), and furthermore when using a scout utility (cheat) I can see that most of them have very poor hidden attributes compared to start game players. Consistency, Important Game, and personal attributes (such as ambition, professionalism, etc etc) are often very poor and seem to be unevenly distributed, whereas with start-game players if the player is good or top class, these are all generally very high because to state an obvious point made by Frank Riijkaard, most players wouldn't get to that level if they didn't have the right menality with regards to ambition, determination, etc. Obviously you have your odd unprofessional Romario/Gazza, but currently in FM 10's regen system you'll get a whole bunch of players with similar poor traits because it generates those stats seemingly randomly.

So even when these "good" regens get into their prime, assuming they have high PA, they'll have good stats for their position, but average to weak stats elsewhere, and they'll be stuck with poor hidden stats that training (or getting them to learn from a good player) only does so much to improve. Compared to the best start game players, they're all to a man vastly inferior, because start game players like Xavi, Fabregas, Rooney, Villa, Gerrard, Lampard, Pique, Chiellini, Ashley Cole, Danny Alves, etc etc, all have good all round stats and fantastic position-specific stats that no regen gets close to (and if they do, it's 1 in a million type regens). I'd even go so far as to say that the best regens I've come across for example, even when at their very peak, their position-specific stats still aren't as good as the start-game players'. Like John Terry for example, his strong stats as a centreback at start game, I haven't seen them matched overall by a fully developed regen centreback yet. If someone has, then I'd count that as a one-off and very lucky/rare. Usually, even with excellent PA/CA, the centreback usually doesn't get close in terms of an attribute or two like jumping, anticipation, etc etc.

The game engine therefore needs adjustment so that we have a higher volume of top class regens with good all-round stats across the board (both hidden and visible). There are obviously non-regen issues still prevalent in the long-term game that also need to be adressed, e.g. where the big clubs don't aggressively pool or develop the top talent like they do in real life (so Barcelona in 2025 for example have a very poor squad compared to today - same applies for all the top teams). But this only compounds the problem of not having a wide selection of top class regens with good all round stats and strong position-specific stats. Every big club in real life has a big squad with quality players, and many of the top end CL squads have 15+ world class players with fantastic stats. That's alot of top class players, so the regen system needs to reflect this.

2) Allow the regen system to produce genuine legendary type players on a frequent basis over a long term.

On top of the need for a higher volume of top class players, every generation of players needs 2-3 legendary star players at the very least with amazing stats - by generation, I mean some arbitrary period, so say every 5 years or so. For example, right now we have Messi, C.Ronaldo, Xavi, Rooney, etc etc. A few years ago, Ronaldinho, Henry, Eto'o, Canavarro, etc, then before that Rivaldo, Figo, Zidane, Owen, Redondo, Zanetti, then before that Ronaldo, Weah, Shearer, Maldini, Schmeical, Roberto Carlos, then before that Baggio, Baresi, Romario, Van Basten, etc etc. These are/were exceptionally great players who in the respective FM's/CM's, had amazing stats across the board, almost maximised position-specific stats, and fantastic hidden/mental stats, etc etc. The current regen system won't produce players anywhere near this calibre, not unless you're EXTREMELY lucky and get a 1 in a million regen (or you use an in-game editor and cheat). Instead you might get a striker in say 2020 who might be nowhere close to the stats someone like Batistuta had in 1995, but will have good position specific stats and might even get a similar goals ratio - this is partly down to the rest of the players in the game also being at a lower standard (i.e. there is a general fall in ability across the game, something compounded by the other clubs not really aggressively developing talent).

3) Allow the regen system to produce rare but genuine world class players who are immediately at the top of their game as soon as they turn professional.

Finally, we also need to see the rare young superstar coming through the regen system. The current regen system has new players starting off at like 100 CA when 16/17, and it takes a long while for them to get close to the PA, usually 24-25 etc. In the real world, you often get the Ronaldo's, or Michael Owen's, or Wayne Rooney's, players who at 17/18 just hit the ground running, and are world class practically from the very start. For example, in previous versions of FM (and before that, CM), these players at 17/18 would have had really high stats because that reflected the real stats - Owen at 17 was absolutely lethal, tearing Premiership defenders apart and scored that stunning goal in the World Cup a while later (think he was 18 at the time). Similarly, Rooney at 17 was world class for Everton and took Euro 2004 by storm until he got injured. Ronaldo at 17/18/19 is arguably one of the best strikers to have ever played the game. Now, I'm not 100% certain the regen system doesn't once in a while generate a player with a high CA compared to PA (the best I've seen is a regen with PA of 175 and CA of 150 immediately after spawning in the game, he was 21/22 and Columbian), but there's still a big gap between that sort of regen and the sort of regen who can be compared to the Owen's and Ronaldo's.

I know an easy response would be to say that SI can't make these improvements because the system is complicated. But then SI do have some top class programmers working for them, I'm sure there are ways of coding so that we have a minimum amount of top class players with more balanced visible/hidden stats, along with similar code to ensure the regeneration of legendary players or the odd wonderkid who hits the game running at a high CA.

I was planing to write a tread about the same points you make but i was lazy so thank you

an issue i notice while browsing through some regen threads here is that good regens have high attributes for stats than don't match his position, e.g. a striker having 15 tackling or a defensive midfielder having 19 for finishing

great article, I definitely think regens need a massive amount of improvement

With the positions of regens, they are incredibly malleable, up until the age of 21/22. If you get a 16 year old central midfielder with 6 passing, 15 finishing, 13 pace, 14 composure then retrain him to a striker. Cristiano Ronaldo started his time at Man Utd as a right midfielder, eventually moving further forward and centrally until he was spearheading the attack. In fact, his first couple of seasons in England out on the right, he was mocked, thought of as a bit of a flop and just had a few tricks which he couldn't all that often pull off.

Truth of the matter is, there is only ever 5/6 world class players about at anyone time really. Despite media insistances otherwise there really isn't that many about who would walk into any team in the world. Messi is one, Rooney & Ronaldo are two others, beyond that you begin to struggle to think of players who categorically you'd have above and beyond others. Like Zidane and Ronaldinho a few seasons ago, and Ronaldo before that; as such I feel FM does do a good job of balancing this out of there only being a clutch (too many in my opinion infact) of true world class players.

With the right training schedule, right positional training and right development put in place you will find you can mould a lot of players to become well balanced. It will be further tuned this year as it has been each of the last few years no doubt about it, and it certainly isn't perfect - but this year one accusation you can't really level at the game is a lack of quality regens. If FM actually implemented the system of getting players at 8 or 9 frequently (like clubs do with the worlds most talented players these days) then yes they would be far more well-rounded and capable at 17/18 but such a feature isn't there for various reasons so we have to adapt to what we get which is 14 at the earliest.

A good opening post which has been well thought out and the Idea's explained properly. i agree with you and although I don't use the editors etc I can recognise talent in the game and although they are extremely rare you can find that odd world class player once in a while. Just one thing though but it may be that I have got lucky with it. I have found two extremely good goalkeepers at the ages of 17/18 and have had them both as my number 1 keeper with the second of them coming through last season to pinch the no 1 jersey. So it does happen with 'keeper's.

Anyway thanks for a good read and a well thought out post.

all the good newgens are almost identical stat looking. for example all the strikers are just pacy strikers, no bruisers etc.

the prices for high potential young players is also ridiculous. you should be able to get good scandinavian youngsters at cheap prices, not 10 million

A good opening post which has been well thought out and the Idea's explained properly. i agree with you and although I don't use the editors etc I can recognise talent in the game and although they are extremely rare you can find that odd world class player once in a while. Just one thing though but it may be that I have got lucky with it. I have found two extremely good goalkeepers at the ages of 17/18 and have had them both as my number 1 keeper with the second of them coming through last season to pinch the no 1 jersey. So it does happen with 'keeper's.

Anyway thanks for a good read and a well thought out post.

I am finding the same thing in regards to GK's. in fact i seem to find more really good GK's than any other position.

Also to a well thought out and detailed post with some good ideas.

Oh Yah. Why the hell are the young players so expensive?!! 25 mil for a 19 yr old DMC, are you kidding me?

Oh Yah. Why the hell are the young players so expensive?!! 25 mil for a 19 yr old DMC, are you kidding me?

I do seem to find this problem as well. i am in 2022 at the moment and what i consider average players are going for 15 million plus.

Last night i decided to see if this was just me being silly or if there was a grain of truth to it. I dedcided to sell of my whole team to see what kind of offers teams would make for them. In that save i had just won the treble managing Wishaw in the SPL (restructured league set up). All of my team are now regens with the majority considered leading SPL players. I think my highest value player is worth around 4.8mill.

I offered every player out for pretty much 20 mill to see what offers would come in. I was astonished to see that when the offers came in teams were offering 15 million plus for people that had spent the season on my bench. The highest bid i received was for 19.5 million for my backup GK (an Italian regen). Once the sales were done i had raised around 150million pounds for nearly all of my senior and reserve squad.

Even in the 13/14 years i cant see any player in the SPL, let alone a backup GK, being worth 19.5million pounds.

I'm sick to freaking death of Center-Backs who can't jump.

It stuffs things up for the AI, because they see players based on reputation/ca, and don't realise their CB is going to get destroy because he's got 3 for jumping.

It's probably because they don't want to sell their hot prospect. I have had no trouble in buying class youth for under 2-3mil. Most of my youth transfers are under 1mil, the key is getting them as soon as they spawn. Find the list of regen spawn dates, when at the date scroll through the clubs of that nation, scout the players and sign the good ones if you can. This means they are only at their first club for a few days meaning you can get some bargains (under 100K). This however takes a long time, but is worth it in the long run.

Back on topic, I have a feeling each year the regen system is changed causing different bugs each year. Hopefully for FM11 they take this years system and just update the bugs.

What I believe is wrong:

- Distribution of attributes regarding natural position, (eg. I find way too many DC's with Jumping 6-9. The match engine rating system dislikes DC's that can't jump.)

- AI clubs developing regens better, I think this is more to do with clubs strengthening over the years anyway.

EDIT: Bowie beat me to it about DC's

Good OP , even though I disagree in parts.

I don't think the problem is too big and a significant change that increases the number of top-class regens is more likely to do harm than to be helpful.

I'm in 2016 currently and most of the players I want to sign for my ManU side are regens and they certainly possess the required class. This January a regen has won the European striker of the year award and finished second for the world player of the year. Also I'm trying to sign a striker who is a wonderkid (i.e. CA < 160) even though only his first year in the game just finished.

I'm sure SI have made soak tests at length which give them the CA figures to compare to the starting db and I'm sure they'll be very comparable. If not, then there will just be a small difference.

I think what might be done though is looking at the roundedness of some top players. Indeed many of them have one big weakness in a key area even though if they are great for the rest. That might be improved, although I actually blame the researchers for giving the rl players too rounded attributes in the starting db too.

So again, there are of course a few issues, but if SI did what the OP suggests, then we'd have a game too full of world class players with amazing stats al over the place.

Excellent OP. Couldn't agree more. The first point is perfectly illustrated by the attached post.

I'm sick to freaking death of Center-Backs who can't jump.

It stuffs things up for the AI, because they see players based on reputation/ca, and don't realise their CB is going to get destroy because he's got 3 for jumping.

The lack of Jumping in CB's is a large flaw in the regen system.

The steady decline in top teams is also a problem as teams don't seem able to be able to replace their best players for 2 reasons. Firstly the regens are nowhere near as good as the retiring players, and secondly because the AI managers are generally poor at buying new talent, real or regen.

Excellent opening post and I hope someone from SI takes note of it. The regen system would be a piece of art if it worked the way you just described.

I don't see why they don't just program it to deliberately just add a set number of legendary-excellent-very good-good-average players every year (or 5 years). I like the randomness of the regen system but as everyone says, it's just not quite there yet. I really would mind if SI just programmed the game to have to produce talent. I mean at the end of the day that's realistic. Football is one of the most popular sports in the world, you are always going to have new talent coming through. The regen system is the one aspect that really puts me off long-term games, once my players starting ageing I start thinking about quitting. It's just not fun replacing you world class striker that you've had for 5-10 years with a player who you'd never have even considered for the bench years before.

Good post.

I think the most pressing issue should be Point 1.

Basically every newgen has at least one MAJOR FLAW, be it the natural fitness of an old man, the pace of a tectonic plate, the technical skills of an armchair...

And a quick peek at the hidden attributes makes the scenario even worse... Most of the potential new Messis and Ronaldos have the professionalism of a drunken Gazza.

So there's almost no point in tutoring a bunch of dirty expensive Future Stars who will never fulfull their potential due to massive physical/technical limitations and to terrible attitude.

Also, as mentioned, attributes should reflect a player's role...

How many "right arrow" [i.e. pacey but mediocre at both defense and offense, so the octagon is shaped like a right pointing arrow] DMs can we have? Looks to me more like a generic Side Midfielder...

And the equally useless "flat V striker"? Average in the air, pace and offensive skills, subpar creativity/technical. What's the use for such a striker?

And many many more rather "shapes" that can make a player rather useless, despite his high PA.

Last but not least, a youngster should have decent attributes in his role-specific areas, instead of having 17 free kicks, 16 corners atc... Just like a CB shouldn't have 14 Flair but 6 Marking

Assuming said newgens are the product of football schools and of years of training/playing, it makes ZERO sense having such uneven and almost random attributes... It's as if they got trained by blind monkeys...

I agree with the this.

Good OP

...So again, there are of course a few issues, but if SI did what the OP suggests, then we'd have a game too full of world class players with amazing stats al over the place.

IRL there are lots of quality players, I mean there are so many excellent/world class midfielders at the start of the game it's hard to work out who to buy at times. In long time games this number becomes greatly diminished and often you won't be able to find a world-class/excellent player for every position, where as in reality every top flight team would have at least one maybe two for each position.

Quality players come through all the time, for all positions. This needs to be reflected in the game.

IRL there are lots of quality players, I mean there are so many excellent/world class midfielders at the start of the game it's hard to work out who to buy at times. In long time games this number becomes greatly diminished and often you won't be able to find a world-class/excellent player for every position, where as in reality every top flight team would have at least one maybe two for each position.

Quality players come through all the time, for all positions. This needs to be reflected in the game.

I disagree, especially at the top level. Irl the options there are very limited.

Imagine you are Barcelona and you are looking for a left back to sign. How many good options would you have to look at?

Lahm, Cole, Evra. Who else? Certainly not too many. And how many of those, if any, are actually available at a reasonable fee?

The higher you get, the thinner gets the air...

Good post.

I think the most pressing issue should be Point 1.

Basically every newgen has at least one MAJOR FLAW, be it the natural fitness of an old man, the pace of a tectonic plate, the technical skills of an armchair...

And a quick peek at the hidden attributes makes the scenario even worse... Most of the potential new Messis and Ronaldos have the professionalism of a drunken Gazza.

So there's almost no point in tutoring a bunch of dirty expensive Future Stars who will never fulfull their potential due to massive physical/technical limitations and to terrible attitude.

Also, as mentioned, attributes should reflect a player's role...

How many "right arrow" [i.e. pacey but mediocre at both defense and offense, so the octagon is shaped like a right pointing arrow] DMs can we have? Looks to me more like a generic Side Midfielder...

And the equally useless "flat V striker"? Average in the air, pace and offensive skills, subpar creativity/technical. What's the use for such a striker?

And many many more rather "shapes" that can make a player rather useless, despite his high PA.

Last but not least, a youngster should have decent attributes in his role-specific areas, instead of having 17 free kicks, 16 corners atc... Just like a CB shouldn't have 14 Flair but 6 Marking

Assuming said newgens are the product of football schools and of years of training/playing, it makes ZERO sense having such uneven and almost random attributes... It's as if they got trained by blind monkeys...

Totally agree with this, it seems to happen especially with striker. I've seen loads with 15+ tackling

My problem with regens is that they're talent seems to be based 15% on the club facilites, 10% on the clubs reputation, 5% on the national reputation (like the way Brazil and Ghana always produce talent) and the 70% seems to be totally random and the player is given a disadvantage.

I've got plenty (20+ at least) of FM10 saves where I've gone over 5 years in-game and my club is constantly producing crappy regens or just decent regens. It's kind of annoying to see Bristol City produce the next Messi while Barcelona can only produce the next Tom Huddlestone

i think the number of worldclass regens coming through is excellent as it currently is. having 15 players like messi,ronaldo would be unrealisitc.

i do agree though the regens should have better rounded stats. the "good regen player" always has stats around 8-12 while most of the good players at the beginning of the game have 11-15 the jumping bug seems to have moved a bit from DCs to wing backs as many of them in my current game have jumping 2,3. also a lot of wingers with poor pace.

Good post.

I think the most pressing issue should be Point 1.

Basically every newgen has at least one MAJOR FLAW, be it the natural fitness of an old man, the pace of a tectonic plate, the technical skills of an armchair...

And a quick peek at the hidden attributes makes the scenario even worse... Most of the potential new Messis and Ronaldos have the professionalism of a drunken Gazza.

So there's almost no point in tutoring a bunch of dirty expensive Future Stars who will never fulfull their potential due to massive physical/technical limitations and to terrible attitude.

Also, as mentioned, attributes should reflect a player's role...

How many "right arrow" [i.e. pacey but mediocre at both defense and offense, so the octagon is shaped like a right pointing arrow] DMs can we have? Looks to me more like a generic Side Midfielder...

And the equally useless "flat V striker"? Average in the air, pace and offensive skills, subpar creativity/technical. What's the use for such a striker?

And many many more rather "shapes" that can make a player rather useless, despite his high PA.

Last but not least, a youngster should have decent attributes in his role-specific areas, instead of having 17 free kicks, 16 corners atc... Just like a CB shouldn't have 14 Flair but 6 Marking

Assuming said newgens are the product of football schools and of years of training/playing, it makes ZERO sense having such uneven and almost random attributes... It's as if they got trained by blind monkeys...

Exactly. I don't think it's the number of excellent newgens that's the problem. It's that their excellence always comes with a "yes, but..."

In my save I've seen quite a few "excellent" (at least according to my scouts and reflected from their values) CMs with high pace and low passing and dribbling (which makes retraining them to the wing impossible). I tried to look at the world class players generated in the game and honestly there are maybe four to five players that are suited to their roles. Others, like you mentioned, are CBs with low jumping and strength, strikers with superb technique but slow pace, or wingers with Off the Ball attribute of 3.

Then again I've only loaded 10 leagues in total, so I don't know if the low-ish amount of players have anything to do with the lack of excellent players generated.

There's far too many good youngsters anyway - the number of Messis and Ronaldos should be very low. It should be difficult to make wonderkids, not easy.

I do think we need more extreme regens though. Players who are physical animals but have little-to-no footballing ability whatsoever. A midfielder who is extremely selfish but talented. A winger who is incredibly slow but powerful (you should retrain him to a defensive midfielder perhaps).

Truth of the matter is, there is only ever 5/6 world class players about at anyone time really. Despite media insistances otherwise there really isn't that many about who would walk into any team in the world. Messi is one, Rooney & Ronaldo are two others, beyond that you begin to struggle to think of players who categorically you'd have above and beyond others. Like Zidane and Ronaldinho a few seasons ago, and Ronaldo before that; as such I feel FM does do a good job of balancing this out of there only being a clutch (too many in my opinion infact) of true world class players.

It's all opinion of course, but for me there's a difference between world class and a level above that (world player of the year class), and above that legendary. For "world player of the year" class, yeah, generally there's only a handful around at any one time (though you often have evergreen players who are still very good in their twilight years - e.g. Zanetti, Maldini, etc). But the issue made in this thread is that there aren't enough standard "world class" players being generated by the regen system in the first place compared to what you get at the start. You'll get regens who go on to be the best player in the world for example, but that's only relative to what they are in the game - if they were start game players for example, they'd be considerably inferior to the very best start game players, and that's down to the randomness of the stats being generated for them.

Regarding normal "world class" players, I'd say there are maybe 100 of them at any one point in time, possibly more. As stated, most of the big CL teams have 10-15 world class players, some even have 20+, and below that many clubs like Man City, Valencia, Santos, etc, have a few world class players here and there. Across the globe, it all tends to add up to a pretty large number of quality players. This is why at the beginning of an FM game, it can be so much more fun, because there are a large number of genuinely class players available from all over Europe and South America.

World class players off the top of my head currently at the level of being a "world class player" in the FM game (not the description within the game, but an observation of their stats/abilities): Messi, C.Ronaldo, Robben, Rooney, Terry, Lampard, Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Danny Alves, Maicon, Ashley Cole, Mascherano, Torres, David Silva, David Villa, Matta, Ibrahimovic, Gerrard, Fabregas, Totti, Walter Samuel, Tevez, Cassillas, Gourcuff, Essien, Carvalho, Pepe, Lahm, Vargas, Kun Aguero, Lucio, Rio Ferdinand, Vidic, Pirlo, Stankovic, Cambiasso, Chiellini, Arshavin, van Persie, Sneijder, Higauin, Benzema, Buffon, Kaka, Peter Cech, D.Milito, Xabi Alonso, Lucho Gonzalez, De Rossi, Sergio Ramos, Julio Cesar.

I'm sure there are others who I've missed, so that's a pretty hefty list of quality players. More to the point, 5 years ago, half of that list wouldn't be there whilst a different half would be in there (e.g. Ronaldinho, Canavarro, Scholes, Deco, Shevchenko, etc etc). Now the point is, 20 years into the future of FM 10.3, you'll be extremely fortunate to have even a handful of players comparable to any of those above (when considering all round stats plus hidden stats).

Furthermore, as per a few other replies so far, I get that in 2025, you might have a generation of regens whereby you'll have a good number who are "good but have a flaw here and there", and with the right training and development you might turn a few of them into players who may just be good enough to be comparable to the above players. But then that's missing the point. The fact that you're forced to develop them and train them just to reduce the impact of their flaws means that we, the players of this wonderful and versatile game, are being forced to play the game a certain way. I'm not a Wenger type of FM player, I don't mind developing youth but I don't focus on it all that much, I prefer to be more like a Keegan or Mourinho type, someone who will let other clubs develop talent which then lets me muscle my way in with big offers. Currently, in long term games, I simply can't play that way because the game forces me to focus entirely on developing youth, otherwise I end up paying huge amounts for flawed players that other clubs haven't developed well. Furthermore, it's just not fun when the best regens in the game all have considerable weaknesses either visible or hidden (again, using the scout utility to cheat a bit), it's like my playing style and options at the beginning of an FM game are completely different to the "end" game when 10+ years into it.

To use an analogy of sorts, when I start the game at a big club with money to spend in 2010 (let's say an edited Barcelona with £150m to spend), I feel like a kid in a candy store because of the quality and depth/volume of fully developed, little-to-no-weakness world class players available (all around Europe and South America mainly). Do I sign Lucho or Bodmer, or Moutinho, or Mascherano, or Aguero, or David Villa, or Essien, or ... so on and so forth. Fast forward 15+ years in the game to say 2025, and I feel more like a kid dragged into a healthy lifestyle ethical snack store by my mother with only soya beans and pumpkin seeds available to buy - I don't want to spend, I don't want anything that's on offer. If I want my favourite candy, my only real option is to buy some cocoa seeds, plant them, nourish them, let them grow, harvest them, then produce my own chocolate a few years later.

I disagree, especially at the top level. Irl the options there are very limited.

Imagine you are Barcelona and you are looking for a left back to sign. How many good options would you have to look at?

Lahm, Cole, Evra. Who else? Certainly not too many. And how many of those, if any, are actually available at a reasonable fee?

The higher you get, the thinner gets the air...

Marcelo, Giorgio Chiellini, Philipp Lahm, Ashley Cole, Patrice Evra, Gaël Clichy, Andreas Beck, Yury Zhirkov are all excellent left backs present at the start of the game, and those are just the ones with a best potential rating of >80%. Also, whether they are available to purchase or not isn't really important, it's more just about the fact that these players do actully exist and there is a good number if them.

However, when I look 4 years on, with some of the original left backs starting to go past their prime, are there any new regen with the potential to replace them? No. There are a couple who have between 75-80% potential, but no regen has >80%. Looking at right backs is an even worse story, as is potential strikers. In 4 years no-one has come through who even has the potential to match what was present at the start. The pool of good players is going to diminish dramatically unless some talent pops up in the next few years.

It also means there will only be a handful of players that will even have between 75-80% potential, which all the big clubs will have to fight over. I myself like to try and have at least 2 quality potential players to fill every position, but if I do that what am I leaving everyone else with?

The regen system is a lot better than it used to be, I definitely agree with that, but I still feel like it leaves a lot to be desired. I don't see why they can't just program it so 1 player comes through with >80% potential for every position every 1-2 years, and do a similar thing for every other level of potential too. You'd still have to train them well to reach that potential, but at least there'd be players with a chance of being good!

It's all opinion of course, but for me there's a difference between world class and a level above that (world player of the year class), and above that legendary. For "world player of the year" class, yeah, generally there's only a handful around at any one time (though you often have evergreen players who are still very good in their twilight years - e.g. Zanetti, Maldini, etc). But the issue made in this thread is that there aren't enough standard "world class" players being generated by the regen system in the first place compared to what you get at the start. You'll get regens who go on to be the best player in the world for example, but that's only relative to what they are in the game - if they were start game players for example, they'd be considerably inferior to the very best start game players, and that's down to the randomness of the stats being generated for them.

Completely agree with this, very well summed up.

I also thought about including this as a 4th point, but didn't put it in because it's reliant on some of the points above with regards to regens with good attributes and decent CA when young (and I guess it might be putting too much in one thread also). What about:

4) Over a very long term, allow a rare golden generation of youth to be generated at a big club or two.

This of course refers to the rare instances of a bunch of genuinely top class players coming through a youth system all within the same generation (or often a few years of each other). In real life in particular, the Ajax golden generations spring to mind. First of course, the Cruyff generation (Krol, Neeskens, Cruyff, Rep), then the Van Basten generation at Ajax/PSV (Gullitt, Van Basten, Riijkaard, Bergkamp), followed by the Kluivert generation (Davids, the de Boer brothers, Kluivert, Seedorf, Overmars). You also have the ManU '99 generation, when Scholes, Butt, Beckham, the two Neville's, all seemingly came through the system in one go with Sir Alex Ferguson replacing a number of key first team players with the "new generation".

This would be pretty exciting to have in the game imo if it was rare and only happens once every 10+ years or so. Maybe have a news item where you get informed of a golden generation coming through the ranks at a particular club (and this would make sense given that the media profile of a talented new batch of players coming through and making waves in the first team is usually big news in the footballing world).

In general terms regens are mostly underwhelming.

It's probably due to the weighting stats are given which means there is scope for a change in how they are created.

Regen attribute generation is a complex issue, and sofar there hasn't been a succesful implementation of this aspect to the game, it's been pretty close many times but theres always some aspect that lets the process down.

The tactics creator lets us assign a positional 'role' which could be borrowed (so to speak).

On the players profile there is already a 'player type' field, and the 2 aspects can be linked.

SI create a master list of positional roles, with each role recieving a list of attributes that most define that role, and the regen system then creating a new regen assigning a 'role' to his profile info with it's appropriate attributes already inplace. (I suspect they already have this inplace )

eg. this would result in several different types of striker, each with slightly different or overlapping attributes;

:- Poacher

:- Inside Forward

etc

This would be the players 'Natural Positional Style' of playing, they would fully have the stats to support it and can be futher moulded and/or modified through training/tutoring.

Just my take on 1 possible way to improve a fairly reasonable but flawed system.

Hope you can understand/follow this ...

Head is kind of fuzzy atm, halfway through a week of looking after the grand daughter

Seems to me the biggest issue is regarding GK, I've been at points where I hardly was able to find a decent one. Not a quality player, but a decent player.

However go for the wonderboys, give them 4 or 5 special moves, and you got a wreckage of love coming your way, however, I do agree that it's a rather growing issue that there arnt coming any decent gens, being quality players, on par with like gatusso or scholes. Some of you might think they are world class, but not really. That said I'm a Milan fan, so it's clearly not hate.

I'm not sure what I do wrong, well at this point I dont do youth developement besides the obvious, it's just not worth it for a wealthy club. And honestly the reputation factor is far to great in this version of FM, so I gave up on the pain.

To finish what I do wrong, I just dont seem to get any youths worth a damn ever in those clubs I manage, used to get atleast a few now and then, in previous versions. I have been in juve, and real for 17 years, and there havent been 1 good player, we are not talking wonders. However I manage, as long as I just forget about the youth part.

The big problems takes it first stakes, when you run out of homegrown players, you need atleast 8 for the CL, if you have 25 great players this becomes a problem, and a growing one. To solve this you need to find them young, so they get to be EA. This is a struggle however.

Well 8 trainend in the specific country and 4 from own youth developement that is.

I also thought about including this as a 4th point, but didn't put it in because it's reliant on some of the points above with regards to regens with good attributes and decent CA when young (and I guess it might be putting too much in one thread also). What about:

4) Over a very long term, allow a rare golden generation of youth to be generated at a big club or two.

This of course refers to the rare instances of a bunch of genuinely top class players coming through a youth system all within the same generation (or often a few years of each other). In real life in particular, the Ajax golden generations spring to mind. First of course, the Cruyff generation (Krol, Neeskens, Cruyff, Rep), then the Van Basten generation at Ajax/PSV (Gullitt, Van Basten, Riijkaard, Bergkamp), followed by the Kluivert generation (Davids, the de Boer brothers, Kluivert, Seedorf, Overmars). You also have the ManU '99 generation, when Scholes, Butt, Beckham, the two Neville's, all seemingly came through the system in one go with Sir Alex Ferguson replacing a number of key first team players with the "new generation".

This would be pretty exciting to have in the game imo if it was rare and only happens once every 10+ years or so. Maybe have a news item where you get informed of a golden generation coming through the ranks at a particular club (and this would make sense given that the media profile of a talented new batch of players coming through and making waves in the first team is usually big news in the footballing world).

Really like this idea, the OP in general makes a lot of sense, though I think the newgen system is getting better its still got some way to go.

if you want i'm in 2023 and i'll show you all the top class players. 1 sec it'll help you discuss it, Tbh i think your a bit off, I've played and I've seen MANY, FAR TO many world world class players in the game right now, Real madrid has like 8 of the best players in the world in there position.

I would have to agree with much that is said in this thread, and add my own wish to see Youth/Reserve Team Management receive quite a significant overhaul for future versions.