Two footed players

Hi people, im just wondering how many off us FM lovers would like to see the two footed bug sorted in FM2011 for example, there are alot of players stats thast dont resemble real life, i remember playing FM 2005 and the stats were pretty close to real life as the tw footed bug wasnt about then, but i think once FM2007 came out it started to appear. I would just like to make a players stats what i see fit without having to edit one off his feet to get the stats i want it is so annoying. Im going to use someone as an example here, lets take Cristiano Ronaldo now he to me is one or not the best player in the world, he can play anywhere from attacking midfield to even being a striker, he is more or less two footed, he has good free kick ability he can dribble at pace he can shoot with power basically he has it all but to me his stats arent anywhere close but if i make him a 1 on his left foot i can edit his stats to what i see as close to real life, i know some people will think his stats are ok, then thats fine as were aloud our opinion but i dont think so, even if Si Games want to keep the two footed thing as part of the game surely they could release a tool which will let us edit a player as we see fit, for example someone who is more or less 20 for all stats i know this wouldnt be real as no one is that good but if we want to do it we should be able to do it, please give me your feedback on this post and also what you think should be changed

Whilst I understand its difficult to compare players when two footedness warps the attributes the fact is that a two footed player is better in real life than a one footed player presuming all other attributes are equal.

Yes but dont you think we should be able to have the stats i can get for a player without having to make him only a one footed player to get his stats close to real life, as players like Ronaldo can use both feet i shouldnt have to make him a 1 on a foot to get his stats as i see fit

I always pack my teams with as many two footers as possible. if i am retrained with a budget then i always have a two footed CM and a to footed FC

Yes but the points not atually about a two footed player its about why his stats drop so much when he can play on both feet, surely his stats should drop? Like i said if you make a player a 1 on his left foot and a 20 on his right foot then make his stats as you see fit, if you edit the player to make him both footed his stats drop alot?

Yes but dont you think we should be able to have the stats i can get for a player without having to make him only a one footed player to get his stats close to real life, as players like Ronaldo can use both feet i shouldnt have to make him a 1 on a foot to get his stats as i see fit

Yes but the points not atually about a two footed player its about why his stats drop so much when he can play on both feet, surely his stats should drop? Like i said if you make a player a 1 on his left foot and a 20 on his right foot then make his stats as you see fit, if you edit the player to make him both footed his stats drop alot?

The point is that all the attributes + the two footedness has to be balanced into the match engine.

If you could have two footedness + very high attributes then that player would be overpowered within the ME.

At the end of the day his attributes don't drop "a lot" the last research I saw estimated approx 2 pts per attribute for the difference between 1 & 20 weak foot.

So you are complaining because you can't edit Ronaldo to be all 20s = "as you see fit" and 2 footed. Hmm..

lets take Cristiano Ronaldo now he to me is one or not the best player in the world

And what's that supposed to mean

i know some people will think his stats are ok, then thats fine as were aloud our opinion but i

dont think so

I don't understand anything here but as I said - you can't have it all.

so what do u reckon Ronaldo should have for free kicks?

About 14. He isn't a very good free kick taker. He hits most into the wall or miles over the bar, but he scores one or two a season. There are many better free kick takers.

Besides, free kick taking has a very low weighting. It isn't affected by other attributes.

Footedness is no different to any other attribute btw.

I thought his freekick attribute was too low but he scored quite a few freekicks for me between 8 and 12 a season. Out of curiosity how many did he score this season for Real Madrid, I haven't looked it up.

Yeah the two footed aspect of FM seems a bit off in FM. This is a generalisation so please correct me but to an extent if you are two footed you get penalised.

To clarify am I right or worong in thinking if you have 2 players of the same ability attribute wise but one is two footed and the other is right only, then the two footed players attributes will be reduced to compensate for the ME. But why should they be compensated because surely the two footed player should be better than the other player - what am I missing? Which do two footed players get penalised for being better than thier single footed counterparts?

You're missing the point entirely, sorry

The player with the better weaker foot will have a higher CA as he's obviously a better player. He will not have his attributes "reduced" to "compensate". It's like saying "a player with high finishing will have his other attributes reduced to compensate".

You're missing the point entirely, sorry

The player with the better weaker foot will have a higher CA as he's obviously a better player. He will not have his attributes "reduced" to "compensate". It's like saying "a player with high finishing will have his other attributes reduced to compensate".

Ok .

You're missing the point entirely, sorry

The player with the better weaker foot will have a higher CA as he's obviously a better player. He will not have his attributes "reduced" to "compensate". It's like saying "a player with high finishing will have his other attributes reduced to compensate".

Lol Nev your speaking sense thats what im talking about as for this guy, well lets pretend he actually knows what hes talking about hehe

Lol Nev your speaking sense thats what im talking about as for this guy, well lets pretend he actually knows what hes talking about hehe

So, because I disagree with you, I must be wrong?

It is incredibly simple. What makes "weak foot" different to "pace"? You don't say "oh no, my player's anticipation is being dragged down by his high pace attribute!", but exactly the same thing happens.

Players who have a stronger weak foot are better players.

A player isn't having his attributes (not stats, statistics are something completely different) lowered by having two good feet, but instead, his second good foot is an extra strength. He isn't worst than a player with the same CA, he's better than a player with the same attributes except weak foot.

BTW, next time, do a search. This issue has be answered countless times.

Still it shouldnt chage his stats...................lets say a person is 20 for shooting if you make him both footed he might be a 17 now thats not right surely it should still be 20

well change the CA then, making him two footed therefore makes him a better player

if you change his pace and accel to 20 some of his others would drop too but thats not a bug

It doesn't change his attributes. You're looking at it the wrong way around.

Let's ask the man who founded SI and codes the match engine: http://www.community.sigames.com/showpost.php?p=2996636&postcount=104

Weaker foot doesn't "reduce their attributes" any more than pace, or strength. If you give a player 20 for pace, there will be less CA to go to other attributes, because of course the pace makes them a better player.

Put it another way. A player is quite good, but he is really slow, and this stops him being good enough for a big club. He has CA 138, but really high technical attributes. Now, he works on his pace, and becomes good enough for a big club. His technical attributes haven't changed, but he's got better because he can run faster- hence, higher CA. He's now a CA 150 player because of his new skill.

You accept that?

A player is quite good, but he can only use one foot, and this stops him being good enough for a big club. He has CA 138, but really high technical attributes. Now, he works on his weaker foot, and becomes good enough for a big club. His technical attributes haven't changed, but he's got better because he can use both feet- hence, higher CA. He's now a CA 150 player because of his new skill.

Weaker foot doesn't lower attributes, it increases CA!

It doesn't change his attributes. You're looking at it the wrong way around.

Let's ask the man who founded SI and codes the match engine: http://www.community.sigames.com/showpost.php?p=2996636&postcount=104

Weaker foot doesn't "reduce their attributes" any more than pace, or strength. If you give a player 20 for pace, there will be less CA to go to other attributes, because of course the pace makes them a better player.

Put it another way. A player is quite good, but he is really slow, and this stops him being good enough for a big club. He has CA 138, but really high technical attributes. Now, he works on his pace, and becomes good enough for a big club. His technical attributes haven't changed, but he's got better because he can run faster- hence, higher CA. He's now a CA 150 player because of his new skill.

You accept that?

A player is quite good, but he can only use one foot, and this stops him being good enough for a big club. He has CA 138, but really high technical attributes. Now, he works on his weaker foot, and becomes good enough for a big club. His technical attributes haven't changed, but he's got better because he can use both feet- hence, higher CA. He's now a CA 150 player because of his new skill.

Weaker foot doesn't lower attributes, it increases CA!

I'm not quite getting what you're saying. Since if you have 2 players with the same CA, but different weak foot then their attributes are also different. So wouldn't that be considered attributes being lowered?

I can agree that SI make 2-footed players have different attributes so they aren't overpowered. Like how a 2-footed with 13 dribbling uses both feet to dribble and can be more effective than a 1-footer with 15 dribbling. But what's ridiculous is how a player's heading and set piece taking skills can be lowered in the process of weak foot taking up CA points. If you have 2 150 CA players who play the same way, why is the guy with the crap weak foot better at heading?

In other words, things should mostly stay the same, but the method needs to be changed so stats like heading aren't affected.

I'm not quite getting what you're saying. Since if you have 2 players with the same CA, but different weak foot then their attributes are also different. So wouldn't that be considered attributes being lowered?

I can agree that SI make 2-footed players have different attributes so they aren't overpowered. Like how a 2-footed with 13 dribbling uses both feet to dribble and can be more effective than a 1-footer with 15 dribbling. But what's ridiculous is how a player's heading and set piece taking skills can be lowered in the process of weak foot taking up CA points. If you have 2 150 CA players who play the same way, why is the guy with the crap weak foot better at heading?

In other words, things should mostly stay the same, but the method needs to be changed so stats like heading aren't affected.

My point entirely, this is what im talking about, something has to be changed about this

I'm not quite getting what you're saying. Since if you have 2 players with the same CA, but different weak foot then their attributes are also different. So wouldn't that be considered attributes being lowered?

I can agree that SI make 2-footed players have different attributes so they aren't overpowered. Like how a 2-footed with 13 dribbling uses both feet to dribble and can be more effective than a 1-footer with 15 dribbling. But what's ridiculous is how a player's heading and set piece taking skills can be lowered in the process of weak foot taking up CA points. If you have 2 150 CA players who play the same way, why is the guy with the crap weak foot better at heading?

In other words, things should mostly stay the same, but the method needs to be changed so stats like heading aren't affected.

Consider weakfoot being on the player page, say under technical attributes.

Each attribute is weighted to take up a certain amount of CA. "Finishing" for instance is weighted heavily for a forward but is virtually free for a DC. All we are talking about here is how you distribute that CA. If you put 20 into "weaker foot" then you have less to put into other attributes.

This is no different then saying I'm going to give my DC 20 for marking. This would leave less to go into "Jumping", "Tackling", "positioning" etc

It doesn't change his attributes. You're looking at it the wrong way around.

Let's ask the man who founded SI and codes the match engine: http://www.community.sigames.com/showpost.php?p=2996636&postcount=104

Weaker foot doesn't "reduce their attributes" any more than pace, or strength. If you give a player 20 for pace, there will be less CA to go to other attributes, because of course the pace makes them a better player.

Put it another way. A player is quite good, but he is really slow, and this stops him being good enough for a big club. He has CA 138, but really high technical attributes. Now, he works on his pace, and becomes good enough for a big club. His technical attributes haven't changed, but he's got better because he can run faster- hence, higher CA. He's now a CA 150 player because of his new skill.

You accept that?

A player is quite good, but he can only use one foot, and this stops him being good enough for a big club. He has CA 138, but really high technical attributes. Now, he works on his weaker foot, and becomes good enough for a big club. His technical attributes haven't changed, but he's got better because he can use both feet- hence, higher CA. He's now a CA 150 player because of his new skill.

Weaker foot doesn't lower attributes, it increases CA!

Obviously you are completely correct, and i understand.

But, what happens when you get a player like Messi. He has 17 finishing, which personally i think is too low, and that it should be 18/19. but there is not enough CA left for those stats to improve,without others to fall, even if the CA of Messi was edited to maximum.

Basically what i'm saying, is that maybe the maximum CA should be more like 210 CA, not 200? obviously SI would keep it at 200 CA but reduce the weightings of all attributes slightly.

This has been discussed many times before.

In real life, of course footedness is a complicated issue, but in FM it is just another factor that eats up the CA. It does not cater for unrelated attributes such as heading and other mental attributes.

It doesn't make sense if you try to reason it, but you just have to realise that they're just numbers. If one goes up, then one has to come down. It's just that footedness has like the highest weighing from all attributes.

Obviously you are completely correct, and i understand.

But, what happens when you get a player like Messi. He has 17 finishing, which personally i think is too low, and that it should be 18/19. but there is not enough CA left for those stats to improve,without others to fall, even if the CA of Messi was edited to maximum.

Basically what i'm saying, is that maybe the maximum CA should be more like 210 CA, not 200? obviously SI would keep it at 200 CA but reduce the weightings of all attributes slightly.

I do think the CA system is currently quite flawed. In this case, I think Messi's finishing is fine at 17, he's not Torres or Villa, but I do feel we need more CA points. Currently, "world class players" take up 20% of the CA scale, and top level players take up another 20%. That only leaves 3/5 for all the rest of the footballers. IIRC, in England there are about 5 Championship players with CA over 130. How can you fit many divisions of football in 130 CA points if 1 division takes up 70? You can't.

I think we need another 100 points of CA (and along with it, an extra 10 attribute points). Everybody with a CA over 100 isn't affected much CA wise, they just have 100 added on. I'd like to see the rest of the CA scale "stretched" to accomodate differences between less talented players. So instead of having a Level 8 player on 10 CA and a Level 10 player on 5 CA (which is about a sixth of the size of the gap between O'Shea and Ferdinand), you'd have a League 2 player on 160 CA, BSP player on 130, BSN/S on 110, Level 7 on 90, Level 8 on 75, Level 9 on 60, Level 10 on 50, Level 11 on 40, and so on. The gaps become smaller as you go down, but they are still more significant than before- the gap between Level 8 and Level 10 is five times bigger! This would stop all non-league players being equally rubbish once you got to the depths of non-league.

As for attributes on a 1-30 scale, the same principle applies. The absolute attributes (i.e. the attributes that remain at the same levels regardless of league quality- bravery, pace, and so forth) would simply need to be stretched; relative attributes like finishing and tackling would need to be adjusted in a more clever way.

I'm not quite getting what you're saying. Since if you have 2 players with the same CA, but different weak foot then their attributes are also different. So wouldn't that be considered attributes being lowered?

I can agree that SI make 2-footed players have different attributes so they aren't overpowered. Like how a 2-footed with 13 dribbling uses both feet to dribble and can be more effective than a 1-footer with 15 dribbling. But what's ridiculous is how a player's heading and set piece taking skills can be lowered in the process of weak foot taking up CA points. If you have 2 150 CA players who play the same way, why is the guy with the crap weak foot better at heading?

In other words, things should mostly stay the same, but the method needs to be changed so stats like heading aren't affected.

The 2 150 CA players have skills that make up the CA. The reason they have that CA is because they possess certain skills. One of them possesses heading skills and solid other mental, physical and technical abilities, one possesses the ability to use both feet well and slightly worse abilities. If he had the same abilities, he'd have a higher CA.

It isn't a case of "his attributes are worse because he has a stronger foot", it's a case of "he has a higher CA because he has a stronger foot".

Again, if you have two 150CA players in the same position, why is the faster one worse at crossing? Because if he was good at crossing, he'd be a better player and need a higher CA.

Apologies for the bump, but I knew that SCIAG had covered this with a decent post.

I'd love to know if this is on SI's radar as something to look at in the future. For someone as visual as me the player stats screen is an instant impression of how good a player is and the fact that it can be skewed so much by the footedness is an unnecessary hurdle to overcome.

I'm less bothered about how it affects performance, or CA, and more about displaying the true qualities of a player at a glance.

There has to be a better way of displaying it.

Ronaldo not a very good freekick taker? Name me one player who's scored more freekicks in the last five seasons? I think he's got about 7 this season alone, and we're only half way through it.He got a similar figure last season, so I don't know how people can say he isn't a good freekick taker. A bit like Roberto Carlos in that most go straight into the wall, but when he gets it right, it's a goal, he he scores far to many to have anything less than 18 on FM.

At the end of the day, even if he had 20 on FM, it still wouldn't replicate the number of freekicks he actually scores, as since FM 08, freekick goals are quite rare on FM.

Ronaldo not a very good freekick taker? Name me one player who's scored more freekicks in the last five seasons? I think he's got about 7 this season alone, and we're only half way through it.He got a similar figure last season, so I don't know how people can say he isn't a good freekick taker. A bit like Roberto Carlos in that most go straight into the wall, but when he gets it right, it's a goal, he he scores far to many to have anything less than 18 on FM.

At the end of the day, even if he had 20 on FM, it still wouldn't replicate the number of freekicks he actually scores, as since FM 08, freekick goals are quite rare on FM.

Juninho Pernambucano

Apologies for the bump, but I knew that SCIAG had covered this with a decent post.

I'd love to know if this is on SI's radar as something to look at in the future. For someone as visual as me the player stats screen is an instant impression of how good a player is and the fact that it can be skewed so much by the footedness is an unnecessary hurdle to overcome.

I'm less bothered about how it affects performance, or CA, and more about displaying the true qualities of a player at a glance.

There has to be a better way of displaying it.

nothing needs changed:

If it says he is either footed then he's better than a player who has the same attributes but has only one strong foot simple.

The OP was complaing because he wanted to give players like ronaldo loads of good atts but couldnt because you can only have soo many attributes in total with the CA system.

As for "visual" as you say, there are many hidden attributes(you can at least see what feet he can use), loyalty, professionalism etc etc you have no indication at all for these except from experience of playing them and their attitude to different situations at your club.

to be honest youre lucky you get any stats since players dont actually run about with stats in real life

As for it being "skewed" its not, a player that can use both feet is obviously at an advantage over one that can't

I have two wingers, one is extremely right footed, one is a bit better with his left - I want to compare them to see who is better at crossing a ball in to the box with his right peg. You can't. But you can if the two players have the same "footedness" because they are on the same scale.