Man U - the falling giant

I'm not sure if this occurs on anyone else's game, but on my current save, and on many other saves I play, Man U always seem to fall away from the rest of the 'Big Four'. Th first few seasons are normal, but I think the turning point is when Sir Alex Ferguson retires, then they are unable to even challenge for fourth place.

Is this realistic or not, what do you think guys?

Exactly the same in my game,the first 4 seasons they never finished above 5th,and 5th season (current) they are 3rd.

So it's not just my game then.

Are Man U that bad without Ferguson

Dont forget that different era's and over time the teams at the top change! Before SAF took over Man Utd were not the best team but Liverpool were and so on.

2022/2023 is 13 seasons later on and the quality of a team changes over time. Will we have the big 4 in 15 years time? - the chances are no - even though the monetary rewards of the top 4 have made it even harder to break into the top around the various top leagues in Europe in recent years but it will change over time - but maybe not as it once was.

Dont forget that different era's and over time the teams at the top change! Before SAF took over Man Utd were not the best team but Liverpool were and so on.

2022/2023 is 13 seasons later on and the quality of a team changes over time. Will we have the big 4 in 15 years time? - the chances are no - even though the monetary rewards of the top 4 have made it even harder to break into the top around the various top leagues in Europe in recent years but it will change over time - but maybe not as it once was.

You mentioned that Liverpool used to be the dominant team, and although they have never won the Premier League, they have always been up there with a shout(apart from this season), but as you can see Man U are finishing outside of Europe

Does this happend with any other of the top 5 teams in Premier League?

I noticed in Brazil 2 of the top 5 teams usually ends up getting relegated after 2-3 seasons.

Sao Paulo and Internacional

In my game they're still quite good. Mancini took over from Ferguson and is managing the club for 14 years now.

Occassionally, I have seen Chelsea or Liverpool drift out of the top four, but they bounce straight back up. Can't say the same for Arsenal as I'm managing them

I'm six seasons in and the league is a two horse race between my Portsmouth team and Man City every season. Arsenal are an average mid-table team but the rest of the "Big Four" plus Tottenham and Aston Villa are mostly fighting for third and fourth place.

i've never seen united win anything in the past 3 or 4 FMs

I'm in 2044, they've dropped out of the top 4 on a few occasions but have 6 wins, 7 runners up, and 6 3rd place finishes in the game. As for them dropping out of the top 4 on your game, not unrealistic really. After a long serving manager leaves sometimes the club lacks direction for a while before it finds a winning formula again, if ever.

fair enough, I can see your point, and I think they have had a lot of managers since Fergie left.

Yep noticed this every time, they just finished 7th in the league, in the year 2012

Very strange really as they don`t sell any of the big players as well

When a team starts at the very top, there is only one way they can go.

In mine Chelsea are the team to dip out faling to qualify for the CL since the 2nd season. Man Utd were my main title contedors for 2 seasons but this season they are 10th and have thier 3rd manager in less than 2 years. Arsenal were on self destruct with players on mega wages and a series of 6th-9th palce finishes but they had a tycoon takeover. Liverpool are now a top 7 team.

The mainstays in the top 4 are Everton (me), Tottenham, Man City and now Arsenal due to thier takeover. I like it. It makes the game feel more personal.

This is quite common in my saves up to now. All the big teams of today have faded away.

Always one if not two of 'the big four' go down the league in FM.

I want this improved as it is not realistic.

Always one if not two of 'the big four' go down the league in FM.

I want this improved as it is not realistic.

I don't, as I said earlier it makes the save feel more personal. It's not like they're falling away completely they're all still top 10 teams (well in both my long term saves). Also as someone said earlier it wasn't always Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal winning everything. It used to be Everton and Liverpool in the 80's. Look at real life now as well, with Liverpool likely to fall out of the top 4 for at least for a couple of years. To each thier own I guess, but I like it as it is.

Always one if not two of 'the big four' go down the league in FM.

I want this improved as it is not realistic.

I don't think it is too unrealistic, teams fortunes change all the time, yes we have had a fairly static top four for about 12 seasons now, but if you start heading back in history further than that you'll quickly see that many of our current big four were not there and some of the old usual suspects from then have fallen far from grace. I would point at Chelsea as a good example of a team rising up the ranks pretty quickly.

Even now in real life, we could potentially be poised on the last season we see our current big four, we could end up with at least one big four going down like the titanic due to financial problems and another team replacing them due to new backing or even a big 5 or big 6.

I don't think it is too unrealistic, teams fortunes change all the time, yes we have had a fairly static top four for about 12 seasons now, but if you start heading back in history further than that you'll quickly see that many of our current big four were not there and some of the old usual suspects from then have fallen far from grace.

Even now in real life, we could potentially be poised on the last season we see our current big four, we could end up with at least one big four going down like the titanic due to financial problems and another team replacing them due to new backing or even a big 5 or big 6.

But that is the past. This has been happening in the last few versions of FM but not IRL the past few years. Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool have been in the top end of the league and not down in 10th or 11th place like they do in FM. Will Tottenham win the EPL next year, more than likely not. So why do they win it in FM?

But that is the past. This has been happening in the last few versions of FM but not IRL the past few years. Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool have been in the top end of the league and not down in 10th or 11th place like they do in FM. Will Tottenham win the EPL next year, more than likely not. So why do they win it in FM?

Ah I see where your coming from now, unfortunately, I can't comment on this as my experience has been different (as it will be as each game is different).

On previous editions I have always started low league, so I don't have much of a clue who wins the premiership until several season on when I get there.

On this save I started as Newcastle and the big four was static for the first few seasons until I came and crashed the party. Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United have all had a bad season or two in the 9 season I have played and Man City have made it a big 5. But no other team has really made an impression.

Last season (2017/2018) the top 5 where Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man United and Man City (in that order). Chelsea finished 7th.

The 2016/2017 season had the top 6 being the big 4 plus Newcastle and Man City.

Ya I start in the lower leagues too but I still check the tables at the end of the year to see how the teams are doing in the divisions above. I think it is due to poor AI transfers?

It's not realistic, but then the game isn't absolutely realistic.

These AI results show how far in general the game is from reality. Huge swathes of real life football issues are completely missing from the game, and intelligent adaption like Ferguson has shown in the past 5 seasons is most certainly one of those key issues.

Manchester United fail because the game is not capable of replicating the clubs strength, which is the ability of the manager. The game is absolutely incapable of intelligent and evolutionary adaption. Teams adapt their tendency towards attack or defence based on reputation and that is it. No tactical adaption, no tactical evolution, no nothing.

The games biggest failure in my opinion is the fact it cannot even remotely replicate what actually goes on in tactics, which is constant evolutionary adaption in detail. The other side of the coin is that if this did exist, the game would suddenly become orders of magnitude harder for the average player.

Ya I start in the lower leagues too but I still check the tables at the end of the year to see how the teams are doing in the divisions above. I think it is due to poor AI transfers?

It could be that but I also think its something to do with when Fergie leaves United the United part goes with him and they just become Manchester, I mean realistically who will fill Fergie's shoes at Old Trafford and have the impact, I think when he leaves a lot of players will not know what to do being so used to him.

Does this happend with any other of the top 5 teams in Premier League?

I noticed in Brazil 2 of the top 5 teams usually ends up getting relegated after 2-3 seasons.

Sao Paulo and Internacional

Chelsea are possibly heading for league 1 in my save, year 2015!

I'v ejust finished my 2nd season and Man Utd have won the EPL twice and the CL once, obviously not too far into the game but they seem to be doing okay to me.

its chelsea on mine that figith for 5th

Yes, United are the fallers from the big 4 for me. They're usually around 6,7,8. This season however, they look set to not even get mid table.

it's been mainly the same top 4 for me, with Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City all winning the title (I'm in 2020). Liverpool has dropped off to being anywhere from 4th to 10th. Aston Villa had a season where they bottled it on the last day to finish 2nd. Man Utd are still playing Rooney

Oh yeah, Tottenham were relegated last year:thup:

So far, in all four of my on-going careers in FM10, Man Utd have fallen. It usually takes 3 or 4 years but they end up in a limbo somewhere mid table, and on occasion they'll flirt with relegation.

It's been much sooner in my latest saved game. Started as Newcastle in CC Championship. Got promoted first season (i don't think it's that hard). I've now completed 2 seasons in EPL. Both seasons Chelsea and Man City have finishes 1 and 2 respectively but after that 2nd season Arsenal, Man United and Liverpool finished 6,7,8. Everton and Villa completed the top four with my Newcastle finishing 5th. Ferguson isn't the United boss at this stage but Arsenal and Liverpool still have their current real life bosses.

Could this slide really happen this quick?

man utd havnt won anything on my game, they 3rd 12pts off the top, then 5th 8pts off the top, then 5th again 11pts off the top and last season they finished 4th 21 pts off the top, and i can honestly say that in the 3 or 4 saves ive had on fm10 that this is probably the best theyve done

This seems realistic to me. Man Utd are in massive debt and are in serious danger. I can see them being relegated within the next ten years.

2032/3 season on my current save has just ended.

Man U are currently a mediocre midtable championship team, having just ended thier 5th season outside the topflight.

Arsenal had a 4 year period of dominance, that ended with the retirement of thier manager.

Newcastle, Liverpool and Man City have all had intermittent hits, and frequent manager changes.

The thing ive noticed the most ... far too many Tycoon buyout's at clubs.

The AI does what it can within the scope of it's abilities, no other game is any different in this respect

as they generally run a small behaviour script

If <event A> do <action X>

else do <action Y>

we should really call them NPM's .. Non Player Managers as they whilst they are artificial, intelligent they are not. They are so rigid, inflexible and easy to beat because they have fixed values for trends that influence how the matches are played, and those values don't ever change.

not in my game they are totally dominant. Mind you i am in charge

What happened yesterday? Tottenham in top four.

The power in the league is shifting from the top 4, and yes MU have huge debt issues etc so what has been seen in the FM-future is more than realistic (although relegation I doubt).

The Top 4 is going to become the Top 6, then 8, then a very competitive Top 10 in the EPL.

When the gap between top and bottom on EPL becomes too large or consistently distinct points totals etc (top 10 vs bottom 10) then I think league restructure will take place.

I think its fair that Tottenham, Everton, Aston Villa and Newcastle come good. They all have the potential, some more than others yes, but still. I like this about FM!

Tottenham are one-season wonders. Next year it will be Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool again.

Tottenham are one-season wonders. Next year it will be Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool again.

You missed the 'in my opinion' part.

I personally think Liverpool could have a terrible closed season, losing their manager, Gerrard and Torres. If that happened I doubt they will be top four next season as those two players have won them at least a dozen points this season on their own.

Man United could end up unable to afford any established stars to replace their golden oldies and end up playing even worse than they have this season (I am a Man United fan and I have no idea how the heck we ended up still in with a shot of the title, you can only thank Chelski for gifting us chances to close on them).

Man City could continue to try and buy success and actually win half of the matches they drew this season when they should of dominated them, if that happens, then they will be a big challenge to the establishment.

Tottenham, buoyed by champions league success and money could use it as a stepping stone to take the next jump.

I am looking forward to a very interesting season next year and I only hope that Chelski do not run away with it as they have the funds to buy some serious fire power and could be unbeatable.

man u still have the money like fergie said when he wanted a berbatov he got the money maybe not be able to match city or madrid spending but why would man u need to already spent 20 million on 3 players

liverpool wont be back in top 4 if torres goes which i think he will

2020, ManUre and Liverpool are mid table, and Liverpool were even flirting with relegation at one point.

Manure and Liverfool are both jokes, the true great team of British Football is now Chelsea, and soon it will be the likes of Man Sh-itty and Villa.

Manure and Liverfool are both jokes, the true great team of British Football is now Chelsea, and soon it will be the likes of Man Sh-itty and Villa.

LOL. You're 25 years old judging by your username, and still go around with that attitude.

"Go you"

Just look at where Liverpool is now and imagine where will they be next year with City and Spurs doing so much better

United are declining rapidly in my game too - im in 2013 and they finished 7th last season, which is their first season wihtout Ferguson. They've gone a £78 million spending spree now - which should mean that they get back into the top 4 .

Manure and Liverfool are both jokes, the true great team of British Football is now Chelsea, and soon it will be the likes of Man Sh-itty and Villa.

In a long save, soon after FM10 was bought for me, Chelsea got relegated. Twice, in 7 years. They sacked their coach, again, and employed a dodgy Nigerian with stats that made Brian Laws look competant. Abramovich was still chairman but they wouldnt part with any cash. Over a period of 15 seasons that i could be bothered playing they had 4 players in their first team who were 30yrs or under. EVERYONE else was older....

Wish this bloke was real, i'd buy him a beer!!

Is this the most unrealistic realistic game out there?

Manure and Liverfool are both jokes, the true great team of British Football is now Chelsea, and soon it will be the likes of Man Sh-itty and Villa.

That's a laugh. How many championships have Chelsea won compared to Manchester United and Liverpool?

Chelsea in my game got relegated cause Abramovich left. Ran out of cash. They bounced back straight away though but have been lingering in the bottom 10 last few seasons. Top 4 in my game is Arsenal (me), Man City, Everton and Liverpool. Man city have only stayed afloat cause i've pumped 225m into them in past 5 seasons lol Hold me to ransom for the wonderkids but they are always worth it. They do well though, always reach semi-finals in champions league until I always put them out!

Man United revived in my game after being a Europa League club...

Their revival is partly due to me selling them a wonderkid for £8million who goes on to become a world player of the year...

Bastards...

ArsenalFan7

Man United revived in my game after being a Europa League club...

Their revival is partly due to me selling them a wonderkid for £8million who goes on to become a world player of the year...

Bastards...

well done mate