Suggestion: Missions / Scenarios / Challenges

In addition to my earlier post on ideas for FM09, i thought i'd have a go at explaining a feature which i beleive - would be a really good talking point between the members of this forum.

Challenges

Main Screen

Example A

Example B

Basically 'borrowing' the idea from early editions of LMA Manager to incorporate challenges into FM. We already have the forum and online community setting each other challenges and goals. Why not use this and expand it by making it a feature within the game.

I feel that it would create new discussions between the online FM community, "Can anyone complete the Shalke challenge in Germany - it's impossible?", "I've completed 43 of the 47 chalenges so far, anyone at 47 yet?", etc.

It would also be great if SI could set up a system that allowed users to create challenges for others to download. I'm unsure how this would work but there is great scope for it.

The only thing i'm worried about is how far you can go without getting repetative with the challenges, but as the online forums have proved - theres always new ones cropping up.

Miscellaneous

Algarve Cup

Champions Cup

Inbox Menu

A few other things i thought of in my spare time. Changing the space in which the news can be displayed would allow for a lot more information and a lot less scrolling.

Please discuss the above. Constructive critisism welcome along with ideas of how to develop the new features.

(Keep in mind the features may not have to look exactly the way i have portrayed them)

Great post Stan the Man! I love all your ideas, and the badges for the cups does make it look more interesting, also the Challenges is in the Championship Manager PSP version, although CM isn't very good.

Although i quite like this idea, especially as i think there are problems with long term games in the current version, i don't think it will be included in the next couple of versions.

But kudos on an excellent and well thought out post though.

I think it's a good idea but i'm pretty sure downloadable challenges already exist, something along these lines...

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/36740/t1133280-save-your-season-challenge/

Incidentally i don't think the whole "it'll create more chat on the fm forum" is a good way to back up your suggestion, hardly one the key factors that get considered when adding a new feature or not.

Some really good ideas there. I think the challenges could add a new dimension to the game and of course would be optional to prevent those who would have no interest in them getting annoyed.

Only short-term challenges interest me.

Only short-term challenges interest me.

This is what i was meaning with being constructive. If you only like doing short term challenges then only do the ones that are short then! Obviously there has to be a mixture as some people would rather do long-term challenges.

If you were able to download challenges that other people in the online community have created then you would have a whole host of other challenges available for you.

I like the idea in theory: perhaps it could replace the Quick Starts button because they aren't used other than for the demo.

However, we do have the Challenges/Sign-ups/Experiments forum here, and I think by including such a feature, that forum would really lose a lot of interest. It's been a hot talking point over the past few days how the CSE Forum is getting more lifeless, without a fresh flow of forumers. Although the veteran CSEers would stay, this would probably drag away those who 'fill in the gaps'.

However, the idea in itself is good. Playing FM can seem generic and cold, such a challenge would give you a livelier game, as would those other mock-ups you've included. One major feature of this idea would be to include a tutorial challenge or two which gets you used to the interface and gives you a few basic tactical tips. I also like the creating challenges idea, although it does seem pretty complex to do so: however that could be a good thing, make it too easy to make and everyone's posting their own challenges but no one's doing anybody elses.

So, although it's a good idea, even a great idea, I wouldn't include it personally, because of the effect it would have on the CSE community here.

I love the miscellaneous ideas

I like the idea in theory: perhaps it could replace the Quick Starts button because they aren't used other than for the demo.

However, we do have the Challenges/Sign-ups/Experiments forum here, and I think by including such a feature, that forum would really lose a lot of interest. It's been a hot talking point over the past few days how the CSE Forum is getting more lifeless, without a fresh flow of forumers. Although the veteran CSEers would stay, this would probably drag away those who 'fill in the gaps'.

However, the idea in itself is good. Playing FM can seem generic and cold, such a challenge would give you a livelier game, as would those other mock-ups you've included. One major feature of this idea would be to include a tutorial challenge or two which gets you used to the interface and gives you a few basic tactical tips. I also like the creating challenges idea, although it does seem pretty complex to do so: however that could be a good thing, make it too easy to make and everyone's posting their own challenges but no one's doing anybody elses.

So, although it's a good idea, even a great idea, I wouldn't include it personally, because of the effect it would have on the CSE community here.

Really good post, exactly how i thought discussions may come about.

I do however have to disagree with the Challenges/Sign-ups/Experiments forum losing interest. Surely this would add to this forum - new threads popping up about 'Dafuge's New Challenge' for instance. Everyone would then be able to open the thread and download his challenge from a link. The thread would still be there for people to discuss how they are getting on with his challenge and post screenshots etc.

I thik the forums would be used more as not everyone who plays FM knows about the Challenges thread. SI could have a link within the game that would take users to the Challenges thread on the forums. I have about 10 mates and guys from work out of whom only 1 uses these forums so it would have the potential to introduce them to the forums and start contributing.

What do you think?

I think an excellent way of getting people to interact more would be to make some of the short -term challenges mentioned, FM live challenges, this would really help launch the FM live feature if gamers were competing against each other in challenges that ultimately can be completed and there is a winner within a few weeks or less. E.g. Save from relegation challenge. 5 players each take control of the bottom 5 premiership clubs or league two clubs (stay in the football league challenge) with say 10 games of the season remaining. All are tied on the same points and all have just lost their top scorer to injury, loan deadline just a few days away and each are cash strapped.

Gamers could assign an hour each evening or at whichever point in the week they all agree on online, or by contacting each other through some facility within the game network.

I think that is something you should maybe mention in the FM Live section rather than here

Probably best to keep this about FM rather than confusing things by throwing FML in the mix too

What!!! You cant say anything around here without people telling you your in the wrong forum, no wonder the forums are getting quiet. Your like a forum Nazi. Get out my face!

Try to be constructive and get told where to go by the local 'Prefect'. Get a life.

Calm down...

The challenge generator idea is a great one, although the details might be complex enough that SI should be hard-pressed to make it before long.

But it is time for some breakthroughs to happen in this greatest football management game series.

Well the game challenges could be played individually then but only a small pool of loan and maybe free signings could be made available and its up to the people to decide whhich selection they wish to take. E.g, a scenario where the variables such as points away from safety, games remaining, current player form and status are the same, but the challenge gives options of either choosing:-

1.) Scenario where 3,4,5 or however many sets of players is available on loan and free. (perhaps 5 sets of different players like Pizzarro, Mpenza, Thiago Motta, Ghaly, Matt Taylor etc are available on free's before the free transfer deadline ends.) Players that in the game are generally available for free or to loan. The player then chooses the team they wish to save and also each player pool, each containing a different bunch of players that are available to them and attainable depending on which ones they believe will best suit their tactics and help them beat the drop.

2.) The challenge starts at the news screen where these types of players have just been attained in order to help them beat the drop. "Fulham snap up experienced midfielder....... on a free transfer". The challenge then begns and if people wish they can either find other players in the forums who also want to play the chalenge and decide on a pool of players each, or simply play and report their progress if they wish.

The challenge would be best completed in the 2nd or third season where the more established players are available on free's to keep the games normal pattern flowing without having to change things too much within the database.

The challenge could be made to suit the kind of gamer who doesnt interact with other FM players by adopting a club crisis scenario where one of the usual European contenders find themselves out of all competitions, have low morale and of course in a relegation scrap.

I had the view of making the scenarios a lot easier to start off with.

Challenge 1

Win a domestic cup with Inverness Caledonian Thistle in under 3 seasons.

Challenge 2

Win the SPL with Hamilton Academical in under 5 years.

Challenge 3

Save St. Mirren from relegation. With 11 games to go they are currently 8 points behind 11th placed Falkirk.

Challenge 4

Win a domestic treble with any Scottish club within 2 seasons.

Challenge 5

Using players only from Scotland, win a European Cup with a Scottish club.

Difficuly Levels

This way you are progressively getting harder with each challenge and therefore those who wish to do the easier challenges can do 1-3 if they wish. Whereas others may prefer to start at challenge 5 and get it over with.

Alternatively you could have only challenges 1 and 2 open to play and you have to complete these before accessing 3, 4 & 5.

Each challenge could have a difficulty rating - 9/10 stars etc.

User's Decision

Having challenges like 4 & 5 would allow users to choose their own club in which to complete the challenge. This would also create topics for conversation on the forums and with your mates such as, "I completed Scottish challenge 5 with Celtic - more money and better squad" or "I completed challenge 5 with Hibs as they have more Scottish players to start with than anyone else".

Scenario Objectives

The repetative issue is one that worries me so we'd have to come up with so many different objectives in different leagues.

Acheivements -

Win a domestic cup

Win all domestic competitions

Reach certain stages of competitions

Win a European Cup

Restrictions to money/squad matters -

You must reduce your wage budget by 35% by the end of the season and still win blah, blah...

Use players of a certain age - over 25/under 21 etc

You must reduce your squad to only 23 players

Win a competition with players from a certain nation or nations

....International challenges anyone?

There could also be challenges like the ones that appear on the forum at the moment -

Repeat Liverpools succeses of season 2001/2002 when the club won 5 domestic and european competitions.... etc.

Hopefully this shows there is enough scope for the idea however i don't know how difficult it would be for SI to implement. I'm guessing it would take a great deal of time to perfect how this works but it could be a real breakthrough in massive new features to be added to the game in a while.

Can Ter or anyone give us an idea of how difficult this would be to implement?

By the way..... what happened to the topic name? Are the mods changing any suggestion threads to have that in the title?

Very good ideas!

By the way..... what happened to the topic name? Are the mods changing any suggestion threads to have that in the title?

Yes, I think they are. If you notice, it's also been tagged. It's obviously a lot of help to them; whenever they have a meeting about new features they can just look at the threads they've tagged.

Hopefully this shows there is enough scope for the idea however i don't know how difficult it would be for SI to implement. I'm guessing it would take a great deal of time to perfect how this works but it could be a real breakthrough in massive new features to be added to the game in a while.

Can Ter or anyone give us an idea of how difficult this would be to implement?

Some should be relatively easy to setup (the main concern would be the manpower available at SI - will another area of the game suffer to introduce this for example) as various bits appear to already be in the game.

A simple example - take Scottish 3rd division side to SPL title within 10 years.

Some of the framework for this is already in the game - you can have the game automaticaly select all the Scottish Leagues and have the option to adjust leagues/divisions grayed out, but allow the user to select database size/masking. On the team select screen limit your options to Third Division teams only.

Then on the news screen, you can have an additional news message re-stating the challenge goals - possibly on the season update, provide an update of the status of your challenge (as say kind of an extra confidence screen), possibly a couple of news messages through the season commenting on the challenge. (say if challenge involves winning cups - when you get knocked out a bit of a fuss could be made, if winning cups isn't involved in the challenge, a media comment about you not taking the cups seriously etc...)

Possibly on the game status screen have a progress report.

At the end of the challenge, have a summary screen - like on the PSP version (I don't have a PSP so don't know whats on the screen - but say something congraulating you on completing the challenge, with various stats - time taken to complete challenge, how many years it took to be each part, possibly a score that could be uploaded to an fmchallenges site - like some of the old Codemasters games, or Galacitic Civilizations have).

Also the possibilty to continue on after the challenge if you wanted - like Civilization.

Small inseason challenges shouldn't be to hard to do either - X games left to save team Y from relagation, or to win the title - I assume SI have a way to determine the results of games (the debug mode?) - sim through to the certain point, have the league setup how needed, save as a same game, quick start (or even have a new .challenge extension to differenate). So when you load the game depending on the challenge if you are a new manager who is given X games to save the club, you get the new user screen but with the team already selected. The challenge can be differed by setting up different scenarios - make it more difficult by using a worst team or having a bigger points gap, make an easier one using better teams, less points, for variety have options for each country/league. Whilst using a save game/quick start method each challenge would always start the same - future editions could randomize some data on loading (morale, form, condition, injuries etc) though this would need more testing. Again have a new news screen on start outlining the goals and a summary screen at the end.

International competitions shouldn't be that difficult either - SI have run World Cup predictors in the past (one possible problem with this could be legal problems, as I think EA may have exclusive rights to the real World Cup/Euro champs.) - have a challenge say in FM09 with the real Euro08 teams and players selected (bar Germany) and have you try and do better than they really did, or put team X in and have a what could have been challenge.

The main advantage of a challenge option is they could be used as tutorials to introduce new players, explain (new) features, help out struggling players - That's now you sell a challenge mode Ter, a tutorial will encourge new people to buy the game, bring back people who found it to hard, driving up sales, making more money

For example either design a challenge to show off new features, with the advisor providing indepth help and infomation.

Or you have a tutorial that explains form, morale and gives hints on how to improve it, and have a challenge that requires you to avoid relagation in three games with just these demoralised players.

Or your the underdogs in the FA Cup Final, the game gives you a tutorial on the tactic sliders and their relationship, aswell as what attributes are best for various options, gives you some hints on how to counter the opposition, you then use this knowledge to create a tactic to win the FA Cup Final.

Or you are given tips/info on how to play the transfer market, and are given a half season challenge to improve your team and overachieve whilst making a profit in the transfer market.

Given tips on how to improve/develop your youth players - spotting youngsters with scouts, how to improve your chances of getting better youth players, how best to use the training system and feeder clubs/loans. Then in the challenge you are given 5/10 years to win the League with Homegrown players.

So you have easy challenges that last from one game to a month or two, that introduce new people to the game, then medium ones that last a season or two, that help people to last a season, then combine what you have learnt into a longer harder challenge.

If you do introduce challenges one challenge that needs to be introduced is Dafuge's Challenge (all English leagues down to BSS/N, start in the second season, you are given the chance to take over one of the newly promoted teams to the BSS/N only, and have it so that all of the teams from the three feeder leagues have an equal chance of promotion) just save the time lost holidaying for a season, and reloading to find an interesting side.

Harder challenges to code would include the ones, that limited squad size, nationalites, wages etc... as they'd need more testing to make sure things didn't go wrong, would possibly be better to introduce simpler challenges first, then each year add more complicated ones.

Of course the main factor would be how many resources SI would be able to assign to a challenges feature.

I feel it may be a better feature to initialy introduce into the PSP or Xbox360 versions of the game - PSP would be good for short term challenges, whilst completing challenges on the Xbox360 could be used as achievements. (Use them as testing, and introduce a fully working exhaustive challenge mode on the PC in a few years )

By the way..... what happened to the topic name? Are the mods changing any suggestion threads to have that in the title?

SI have said in the past that they tend to bookmark various threads on the forums and discuss the ideas in whatever development meetings they have, the tagging system maybe a better way of remembering the threads and to get more members to contribute - I expect various ideas in the past have been missed due to bad titles, or someone at SI coming across a good idea, but not being able to find it later.

So you may find sometime in the future that Ter has stolen your idea and mock-ups and taken them as his own

Tutorial/Walkthrough Videos -

It would be a good idea for SI to make a few videos like the example above – walking new users through each part of the game.

Making the videos a lot shorter however, more specific to each area of the game – transfer market, tactics screen, training schedules, news items, etc.

This would also allow them to have a ‘New Features’ video where experienced users could familiarize themselves with only the new parts of the game.

The videos could either be accessible through the options/help menus or via a button on the main screen where you turn tutorials on/off before starting a new game. If turned on, there may be pop-ups appear over certain areas in the game allowing you to click and see a video tutorial for this section. The screen would then be greyed out into the background while you watch the video clip.

Something to consider.

I didn't see it mentioned, but today it's up to individuals if they 'succeeded'. this would require quite a bit of dev to cater, and recognise the set challanges, and then evaluate against them - otherwise the game couldnt mark it as completed.

still a good idea, and something extra for bragging rights, along with long time, manager wages etc, as well as a slightly different lead in for new starters with simple challenges to help them learn the ropes

really interesting idea. as someone who plays the challenges on the "challenges/sign-ups" thread a lot, i know that these scenarios can be very enjoyable and rewarding. in my opinion, making a small team great, or even just reach the top division, is often more interesting than, say, winning the Premiership and Cl every year with Man Utd. i appreciate that a lot of people buy the game to play as their favourite team, and be better than 'real-life' (i do it myself), but there is definately room for challenges within the game.

the "challenges..." thread is in no way as popular as it could/should be, and this is probably partly down to awareness. it being down near the bottom of the threads list probably plays a part, but whether it would make a difference to it's popularity is not for me to say. I know for a fact that plenty of people play games with lower league teams, as they're discussed in the "Good Player/Team" thread. these games are very similar to the challenges, especially such as Dafuge's, in that the 'players' want to take the team to the top. With a little more awareness, people may think "i'll not play as Oxford United, i'll play as "........." through Dafuge's challenge. The main challenges, especially Dafuge's, Gundo's, JoseRR's (which i play.... ) have a good atmosphere in the threads, and people genuinely are interested in how each others games are going. in the "Good Player/Team..." thread, there were a number of threads started by people who created their own teams, and other people joined in playing as them as well. It might just be me, but i think some of the people that play these games do so only because other people are playing it, it's a bit different, and they can talk about it in the thread. Is this much different to playing a "challenge" game???

Anyway, that's my opinions aired.

could have something that 'makes' a challenge, where you set out a guideline, rules etc. then upload the file people then add it to thier *challenges folder* the same as skins, and walla you can try the challenge and see where you go. it would be good to do a challenge with actual limiting factoors too, rather than making sure you stick to them.

Excellent stuff! I've been away from FM for a month or so, I just couldn't get into it once my laptop broke and had to reinstall everything. Small challenges, just like Kevin_chn said, would more slowly reintroduce somebody back into the game that hasn't played for a while, without chucking them straight in at the deep end.

Another thread that may well be missed from page 1

I quite like the idea of having challenges based around particular scenarios built into the game. The challenges, sign ups and experiments forum could be used as a place for people to discuss their progress with them, like it is now, but the inclusion of the challenges in the game would raise the profile of playing and discussing the game in this sort of way.

The only problem with these challenges is that a lot of time would have to be spent on coding and testing them, in addition to what's done to the main game otherwise they could be so bugged it would be worse than not putting them in.

Another main problem as I see it, is that you would probably need to do them for a lot of the main leagues otherwise people may feel 'alienated' if their league's not included. Therefore, the challenges would have to be 'generic' and apply to all leagues (eg avoid relegation with _____, win the league with ______ etc) or would have to be specific to each league which may lead to less being made so the feature isn't what it could be.

Overall, could be a good idea, especially if it attracts the short term gamers or keeps more people involved. But with the coding/testing required it's one for the future..

I think this is a great idea. I still have a list of challenges that someone posted on here ages ago, stuff like win the league with Arsenal or Chelsea but with no foreigners, get a Welsh team into the Champions League group stages. To have this in the game would be excellent.

A lot of the challenges would have to be generic though. The "Save team from relegation" one would apply to all divisions that have relegation for example with the user having the option of changing a few variables such as which team to choose, how far behind etc then in theory the game should be able to generate the scenario chosen.

I think this would be an option for people creating/generating scenarios for others to download and play. However, the challenges that would ship with the game should have most of the preferences set and only a few variables open to the user. Relegation challenges as such would need to have the team/points etc already set. This way everyone is competing on the same playing field and can compare each others successes/failures. The only variables would be in challenges where you can choose any team from country x to win x, y & z.

Ter, have you any idea how other members of the SI team view this idea? How long do you think it would take to properly implement - 2/3 years? Have the main features for FM09 already been discussed and set in stone?

Seems like a decent idea. A lot of my favourite games have started off as challenges and then I've developed the game from there.

I think that in football manager 2011 there should be options at the start menu for missions, say youd be liverpool and the game would start at christmas and the club are sitting in 11th 20 points off a champions league place, your mission would be to get champions league football, this would add alot more depth to the game and reli give you somrthing to do when your interest from your game dwindles abit.

Hi, welcome to the forums.

Your idea has been mentioned several times. Its not for me.

I think the game itself is 'mission' enough.

This isn't GTA.

Thanks

Im not fully with the original post, but whilst in the game if a club is in trouble of relegation or like it says off the pac for 4th spot and managerless then like in real life you could get offered to take over until the end of the season to achieve the goal, like save the club from relegation and get a bonus, or get 4th spot etc.

This would suit people who like doing journeyman careers

I think that in football manager 2011 there should be options at the start menu for missions, say youd be liverpool and the game would start at christmas and the club are sitting in 11th 20 points off a champions league place, your mission would be to get champions league football, this would add alot more depth to the game and reli give you somrthing to do when your interest from your game dwindles abit.

Welcome to the forums.

I don't like your idea.

Cheers.

Shaun- have you heard of FMRTE? You can use that to edit league tables. If you holiday to the point in the game you'd like to take over, you can create the scenario you'd like on your own.

Fabio- the wishlist is for "list" ideas. Individual ideas get their own threads.

Sahun- have you heard of FMRTE? You can use that to edit league tables. If you holiday to the point in the game you'd like to take over, you can create the scenario you'd like on your own.

My mistake then. Sorry. Will edit my post.