Plans to include USL1 & USL2 (America)

Is there been any plans to add USL First Division in America ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL_First_Division )

It is the next division below the MLS then it's the USL 2...

Apologies if this has been asked before but it would be awesome if this league was introduced into the American leagues.

Is there been any plans to add USL First Division in America ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL_First_Division )

It is the next division below the MLS then it's the USL 2...

Apologies if this has been asked before but it would be awesome if this league was introduced into the American leagues.

I'd say it's about 99% certain they'll NEVER be included into the game.

The reason being that they have no promotion/relegation into the MLS, and as a result of this are rendered pretty much redundant.

Also, the USL and MLS are essentially rival leagues. Both are overseen by USA Soccer (The American FA) but operated seperately.

I'd love to clarify that with an example from elsewhere... but I can't think of anything right now...

thanks for the constructive feedback.

I understand, never knew they were rivals actually.

So MLS teams don't have relegation or promotion?

Wow. I've never entertained myself in the MLS, it seems to complicated from what the board says, but having no Relegation must give you great comfort

It's like darts - there's the BDO (British Darts Organistion) and the Professional Darts Corporation (PDC). Two rival companies.

Just imagine there's the English Premier League with 10 teams in it, and a separate English Supreme League with another 10 teams in.

They operate separately and have no promotion/relegation to each other.

Perhaps if you take rugby as a whole as 1 sport, then you could (loosely) compare it to Rugby Union and Rugby League - two different entities that have no promotion/relegation to each other.

In my opinion, it's a shame for any sport that has competing factions. I think the sport would benefit from having them all under 1 roof, so to speak. It would create more interest, more big games, and wouldn't divide the fans. As another example, you could use the sport (or entertainment?) of wrestling back in the 1990's, when you had WWF, WCW and ECW. Fans were divided. The way that sport is run is slightly different, so comparisons can't be totally made, but in my opinion, America having two separate league operators is not helping the sport over there.

Having said all that.......

If the MLS is included in FM, then perhaps a case could be made for the other league to be as well.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

So MLS teams don't have relegation or promotion?

Wow. I've never entertained myself in the MLS, it seems to complicated from what the board says, but having no Relegation must give you great comfort </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not that comfortable when the board demands you to win the MLS every 2 years

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">America having two separate league operators is not helping the sport over there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it's really not hurting it, either, since promotion/relegation is non-existent in our sports. As a result, no one knows any different.

For us, competing leagues is just a fact of life - it's all we know. Whoever provides the better product is the one we all naturally follow - leaving the others to seize-up and die(or merge with the bigger league, if they're lucky).

As for the original topic,

I don't want to see the USL yet. Before I ask for more American leagues, I want to see proof that SI even care enough about our leagues to include them correctly.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B. Stinson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">America having two separate league operators is not helping the sport over there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it's really not hurting it, either, since promotion/relegation is non-existent in our sports. As a result, no one knows any different.

For us, competing leagues is just a fact of life - it's all we know. Whoever provides the better product is the one we all naturally follow - leaving the others to seize-up and die(or merge with the bigger league, if they're lucky).

As for the original topic,

I don't want to see the USL yet. Before I ask for more American leagues, I want to see proof that SI even care enough about our leagues to include them correctly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It really doesn't matter here. I love football but I had actually no idea about the existence of this league. And in fact I have seen only games involving DC United (because of Adu) LA (because of Beckam) and NY (I live close and these games are broadcast.

In fact that is the problem most games you cannot see on National TV only local. And also SportCenter a 1 hr daily show talks about 2 minutes about the results and that is only when the season is on.

So I apologize if I am rude but the FM sales in US are possibly explained by the immigrants like me that do not play that league anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It really doesn't matter here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What doesn't matter?

The fact there is no promotion/relegation?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ifllorescu:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B. Stinson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">America having two separate league operators is not helping the sport over there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it's really not hurting it, either, since promotion/relegation is non-existent in our sports. As a result, no one knows any different.

For us, competing leagues is just a fact of life - it's all we know. Whoever provides the better product is the one we all naturally follow - leaving the others to seize-up and die(or merge with the bigger league, if they're lucky).

As for the original topic,

I don't want to see the USL yet. Before I ask for more American leagues, I want to see proof that SI even care enough about our leagues to include them correctly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It really doesn't matter here. I love football but I had actually no idea about the existence of this league. And in fact I have seen only games involving DC United (because of Adu) LA (because of Beckam) and NY (I live close and these games are broadcast.

In fact that is the problem most games you cannot see on National TV only local. And also SportCenter a 1 hr daily show talks about 2 minutes about the results and that is only when the season is on.

So I apologize if I am rude but the FM sales in US are possibly explained by the immigrants like me that do not play that league anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You really couldn't be more wrong on all counts.

There's tons of MLS coverage on Fox Soccer Channel and a game a week on ESPN2. Neither of those are local stations. SportsCenter is indeed crap, but last season they started a 30 minute program (albeit once a week - but its a start) devoted to MLS on ESPN. The only way you don't get coverage is if you don't even have cable, in which case you can't really complain.

I know a load of people who play FM/WSM here and none of us are 'immigrants like you'. Most of us have however, avoided MLS in the 08 version due to the massive bugs (for example being sacked despite being 1st in your conference because you didn't win the US Open Cup - something in realtiy no one cares about and is not televised at all).

MLS would be better to manage in if the game let you trade order of draft picks like in the NFL

USL and MLS rival leagues? That's a new one.

The USL holds the FIFA license as the US Division II league and Canada's Division I league. When a city moves to MLS, no USL team steps in. USL targets markets that MLS isn't in.

When FIFA demanded a Division I league as the price of bringing the World Cup here, the USL did try to get that license but was rejected in favor of the group that became MLS.

As Jason the Yank rightly, although not completely, explained, MLS and USL are NOT rival leagues. They aren't exactly seperate divisions of the same "league" either, but rather a part of the same "professional pyramid."

If you think that is complicated try explaining The English League Structure to an American newbie (as I did this weekend over the Man Utd v Arsenal FA Cup match)...

- "League Two is at the bottom, then League One, then the Championship..."

- "And the Championship is the top division?"

- "No THEN there is the Premiership..."

- "...and how many leagues? And they play the playoffs during the season? I don't get it."

I'll explain Europe to him next time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

USL and MLS rival leagues? That's a new one.

The USL holds the FIFA license as the US Division II league and Canada's Division I league. When a city moves to MLS, no USL team steps in. USL targets markets that MLS isn't in.

When FIFA demanded a Division I league as the price of bringing the World Cup here, the USL did try to get that license but was rejected in favor of the group that became MLS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, there isn't two separate football leagues over there?

Because if there is two, then fans are divided between them, so they can be considered rivals.

Would you mind explaining it again to me, because I still think that 2 different organisations exist in America, so why wouldn't they be rivals?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DominicForza:

As Jason the Yank rightly, although not completely, explained, MLS and USL are NOT rival leagues. They aren't exactly seperate divisions of the same "league" either, but rather a part of the same "professional pyramid."

If you think that is complicated try explaining The English League Structure to an American newbie (as I did this weekend over the Man Utd v Arsenal FA Cup match)...

- "League Two is at the bottom, then League One, then the Championship..."

- "And the Championship is the top division?"

- "No THEN there is the Premiership..."

- "...and how many leagues? And they play the playoffs during the season? I don't get it."

I'll explain Europe to him next time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not too complex.

The English game is a huge pyramid, with some amateur and semi-professional sides at the bottom in their leagues, moving up to League 2, League 1, Championship and Premiership. Teams can get promoted or relegated between these leagues. Every season, the top 2 sides in the Premiership quality automatically for European competition. Sides finishing 3 and 4 enter a European Qualification phase. In other European countries, the number of teams eligible for entry range from 1 to 4.

In England, sides finishing 5 and 6 (and possibly 7, or winners of domestic cup competitions) enter a lesser European competition, which involves all the other European sides that didn't finish in the entry positions for the bigger European competition above.

In leagues below the Premiership, some teams finishing top or 2nd get automatic promotion. Teams finishing below these automatic positions enter the Promotion Play-offs which happen at the end of the normal season. Teams in the bottom 1-3 positions get relegated to the league below.

It's pretty straight forward - I'd suggest the MLS is the most complex footballing system in the world.

I personally completely avoid MLS all together. Any league without a relegation system quite bores me. It's playing the same teams all the time.

MLS could really use a relegation system.

They need to completely restructure the league. Bring the normal rules there, get rid of the "drafts". They want to be known around the world, but they completely Americanized it, and it seems as if they're trying to drift away from the nature of the sport and turn it into something different.

The league system really confuses me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skunner:

I personally completely avoid MLS all together. Any league without a relegation system quite bores me. It's playing the same teams all the time.

MLS could really use a relegation system.

They need to completely restructure the league. Bring the normal rules there, get rid of the "drafts". They want to be known around the world, but they completely Americanized it, and it seems as if they're trying to drift away from the nature of the sport and turn it into something different.

The league system really confuses me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would disagree with you. The MLS is trying to attract AMERICAN fans. Every other league in the country has an annual draft, so there's a draft in MLS.

One thing I never understood about European soccer leagues is that there's no playoffs. I think a champion (at least in the premier league in each country) should be decided with an eight team playoff (1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, and 4 vs 5).

Before the MLS and its teams should even thinks about a relegation systems and restructuring the league, the teams should concentrate about making a profit each year.

Mon Austin Aztex

I don't think the USA is ready for the relegation system yet. The MLS hasn't had the opportunity to fully established itself yet in its own country. They're still trying to focus on sustainability and making the league more attractive to spectators. Australia and Singapore also have professional top-tier leagues that don't have a promotion/relegation system.

And there are countries where the promotion/relegation system hasn't really worked out well for them, such as Malaysia, Japan and China.

Italy, Germany and Spain have lower leagues which their top-tier teams' reserves compete in, but England doesn't. There's no one best system.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rancer890:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skunner:

I personally completely avoid MLS all together. Any league without a relegation system quite bores me. It's playing the same teams all the time.

MLS could really use a relegation system.

They need to completely restructure the league. Bring the normal rules there, get rid of the "drafts". They want to be known around the world, but they completely Americanized it, and it seems as if they're trying to drift away from the nature of the sport and turn it into something different.

The league system really confuses me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would disagree with you. The MLS is trying to attract AMERICAN fans. Every other league in the country has an annual draft, so there's a draft in MLS.

One thing I never understood about European soccer leagues is that there's no playoffs. I think a champion (at least in the premier league in each country) should be decided with an eight team playoff (1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, and 4 vs 5).

Before the MLS and its teams should even thinks about a relegation systems and restructuring the league, the teams should concentrate about making a profit each year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ew, no. The way the Euro leagues do it is better. You're rewarded for your play throughout the course of the season. I'm sorry, but Portsmouth should not be able to manipulate the sequence of events that determines the EPL champion.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rancer890:

One thing I never understood about European soccer leagues is that there's no playoffs. I think a champion (at least in the premier league in each country) should be decided with an eight team playoff (1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, and 4 vs 5). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No thanks, look at the mess it makes of the Dutch league.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rancer890:

I would disagree with you. The MLS is trying to attract AMERICAN fans. Every other league in the country has an annual draft, so there's a draft in MLS.

One thing I never understood about European soccer leagues is that there's no playoffs. I think a champion (at least in the premier league in each country) should be decided with an eight team playoff (1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, and 4 vs 5).

Before the MLS and its teams should even thinks about a relegation systems and restructuring the league, the teams should concentrate about making a profit each year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What?

That's silly....that's a cup competition you are talking about....not a league, which is what the MLS is trying to be...

The whole point of having a league is to play a set amount of games, earning points for each game with the team at the top winning the league.

It's not all about profit surely....I don't think soccer will ever be popular with the majority of Americans because the score doesn't end 98-165.

The draft, from playing the MLS once and from what I understand it to be is more like a raffle than anything logical...just doesn't make sense to me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Uncle_Sam:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rancer890:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skunner:

I personally completely avoid MLS all together. Any league without a relegation system quite bores me. It's playing the same teams all the time.

MLS could really use a relegation system.

They need to completely restructure the league. Bring the normal rules there, get rid of the "drafts". They want to be known around the world, but they completely Americanized it, and it seems as if they're trying to drift away from the nature of the sport and turn it into something different.

The league system really confuses me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would disagree with you. The MLS is trying to attract AMERICAN fans. Every other league in the country has an annual draft, so there's a draft in MLS.

One thing I never understood about European soccer leagues is that there's no playoffs. I think a champion (at least in the premier league in each country) should be decided with an eight team playoff (1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, and 4 vs 5).

Before the MLS and its teams should even thinks about a relegation systems and restructuring the league, the teams should concentrate about making a profit each year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ew, no. The way the Euro leagues do it is better. You're rewarded for your play throughout the course of the season. I'm sorry, but Portsmouth should not be able to manipulate the sequence of events that determines the EPL champion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand that most Euro leagues would probably want to stay put with their format, considering their history and the fact most Euro league fans are used to the current format that they have.

There really is no 'better' format to determine a champion. The 'Big Four' sports leagues in Canada and US, NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL all have playoffs, and that's how we decide who wins the league. The Euro leagues just have a regular season and cup competitions.

It pretty much comes down to historical context: every north american league have utilized post-season playoffs since their inception, and if MLS wants to get a piece of the pie, even a small piece, there will be playoffs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jase1982:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rancer890:

I would disagree with you. The MLS is trying to attract AMERICAN fans. Every other league in the country has an annual draft, so there's a draft in MLS.

One thing I never understood about European soccer leagues is that there's no playoffs. I think a champion (at least in the premier league in each country) should be decided with an eight team playoff (1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, and 4 vs 5).

Before the MLS and its teams should even thinks about a relegation systems and restructuring the league, the teams should concentrate about making a profit each year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What?

That's silly....that's a cup competition you are talking about....not a league, which is what the MLS is trying to be...

The whole point of having a league is to play a set amount of games, earning points for each game with the team at the top winning the league.

It's not all about profit surely....I don't think soccer will ever be popular with the majority of Americans because the score doesn't end 98-165.

The draft, from playing the MLS once and from what I understand it to be is more like a raffle than anything logical...just doesn't make sense to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my post about profit: I meant that only 3 teams (LA, New York Red Bulls, and DC United) are the only teams that made a profit since the league began. All the other teams (probably except TFC) have lost money. The last thing MLS wants are teams folding (like Tampa and Miami in '98 or '99), something I believe won't happen.

About cup competitions: there's a US Cup (somewhat like the FA Cup) and MLS playoffs in the league.

About the draft: It's the only way to get new talent in the league. The best college players in the US and Canada get picked by the MLS teams. The team with the worst record gets the first pick, so they have a chance at getting the best players and this 'balances' the league talent.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't think the USA is ready for the relegation system yet </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's state some facts first:

1. Every sports league in the US is a business

2. Every team is a franchise

3. Every owner has to pay a fee to buy a franchise, the league helps him with bargaining for TV coverage, some promotional stuff.

4. Most US leagues have some sort of salary cap to make sure every team in the league is competitive, so that no rich team would buy all the best players

5. The draft system allows crappy team to get the best available young players who in a few years should blossom into stars (local but still stars. This allows to even the playing field even more.

The result - complicated system, but actually quite entertainign.

European model:

1. The richest teams buy the best players

2. Competition is between 1-4 teams (tops), most leagues have 1-2 real contenders

3. Newly promoted teams are doomed unless there is someone even worse in the league already.

4. Entertainment is 0 when say Birmingham is playing Derby.

5. No financial restraints, meaning again the richest team would buy everyone.

But to go back to releagtion - think if you have a business and someone tells you next year you'll be making about 5 times less money - no owner would agree to that. Add to this that whoever is a promoted team is might not have enough resources to even pay for travel (think US is slightly bigger than UK). This happens already alot in Mexico when newly promoted teams have no desire nor resources to pay for the life in the bigger league, so they choose to stay in the 2nd tier. So in reality I see very little incentive to have releagtion. Playoffs are the best time of the year anyways because that's when everything is on the line.

And back to USL - I don't see this league being implemented - how many people play MLS (while it's not working properly yet), about 1/5 of that may play in USL (very little international potential) - just the league and the Cup.

While USL is not a true rival to MLS and two leagues cooperate, USL is a small-money league and will stay that way. Look at attendance figures of USL/MLS teams in the same city (Toronto Lynx/Toronto FC) - if people want to see something they'd rather see the best league, not the second tier.

And to get back on topic, I hope SI adds USL 1 and 2 next year. There is CONCACAF Champions League starting this year, and some USL teams might get in. So it would be cool to challenge MLS teams for Champions League spots. I just don't want it to be rushed and be unplayable long term.

The CONCACAF Champions league is really going to popularize MLS to a higher level.

I am not a fan of MLS at all, but I do believe it has potential.

They have the money. They've attracted players like Pele, Beckenbaur and Beckham. Even Mo Johnston has a manager.

But I can honestly say that the American fans are giving the MLS a chance. Sadly Canadian's seem more ignorant towards football than the Americans.

I can't count how many of my own I wanted to punch in the face for talking down football.

I hope that USL-1 and USL-2 are included as I'm a Palace fan and would like to play as CPFC USA. Also people saying they shouldn't be included as there is no promotion/relegation, why is the MLS included then as you can't get relegated from that. I would love it if these leagues were made playable.

The drafting system is very interesting and very useful at times, I wouldn't agree with taking it away. Definitely in real life I admire the draft alot as it can balance the teams in a league preventing monopolization of the league, aid growth of players mentally and physically allowing them to experience more and very interesting to watch, especially if you are also concerned about the lower levels of football in the country.

Confusing as it may be, the MLS is actually very fun to play (I've only played in it once) and unlike some people think you don't play the same teams every season, as the league is split into East and West and that is why a playoff is used and makes much more sense in the US than it does anywhere else, and also explains the lack of relegation/promotion which I am sure will be implemented eventually. Now I'm not American, but I can imagine that being such a large country more complicated systems must be made in order to keep the sport simple.

Now if SI were to consider implementing USL-1/2 I would also suggest they think about putting in the even lower leagues such as the PDL or even college soccer such as the NCAA as these leagues have a lot of input to the development of the sport in the country and would make drafting much more interesting. Its really quite fascinating, I've just found out all this about the US soccer structure and if all of these systems were implemented I would definitely be spending a lot more of my time in America on FM.

I should play a game in the MLS on 08 though, haven't gotten around to it yet. I suggest everybody give it a shot as it is a very different experience.

Implementing college soccer would probably be too difficult. A lot of players play both college and PDL, so SI has that aspect setup pretty well at the moment.

I would like to see the USL-1, USL-2, and even the USL-PDL made playable though. I even sent an email to some people at USL (and got a response that they would look into it). Maybe if more people did that they would seriously look into working out a license agreement with SI. Go to uslsoccer.com and at the bottom there is a contact link. I sent an email to like 4 or 5 on the list that I thought might have something to do with it.