League Importance?

Hi i got a question. Does league importance go up? I mean the hidden stat in the editor, At the moment The top leagues are like 18-19 but say if i was to manage celtic and win the champions league a bunch of times...Resulting in the Scottish clubs gaining more uefa places. Does that stat go up? Just curious...In Essance it should right? as scottish clubs would earn more money and get better players..

Unfortunately league reputation is not dynamic. Here to that being cahnged in FM11.

Doesn't need changing at all.

Doesn't need changing at all.

Kind of ignorant, don't you think? The EPL wasn't always the greatest league. It got there over a period of time. Surely other leagues will challenge it or even potentially knock it off...

Doesn't need changing at all.

Well, yeah; If you limit yourself to coaching ion England, Spain and Italy, then you should be fine. If you go outside, you'll be limited no matter how well you do.

Doesn't need changing at all.

Would you please explain why do you think it doesn't need changing?

Doesn't need changing at all.

Ignorant:thdn:

I manage in australia and i have won the club world cup and then the next season my team (who beat Olympic Marselle) was raided by 2 tier spanish clubs ( liga adelante or what evr it is called) and my young players being nabed by CCC sides. I would like to see a dynamic league rep so that I can build an empire (MWAHAHAHAHA) in somewhere other than england, spain, or Italy

I manage in australia and i have won the club world cup and then the next season my team (who beat Olympic Marselle) was raided by 2 tier spanish clubs ( liga adelante or what evr it is called) and my young players being nabed by CCC sides. I would like to see a dynamic league rep so that I can build an empire (MWAHAHAHAHA) in somewhere other than england, spain, or Italy

Yeah, me too, I always play a club from my country and even when we win CL and Club World Cup my best players still want to leave for "a bigger club".

Dynamic rivarly and league reputation is what we want.

^^^Totally agree with you

Yup I'm with these guys, so I can once again make Holland the place for world football!

Yeah i agree, this does need changing. Im managing in France at the moment so not too bad on the rep but i would expect that if i won the champions league lets say 3 years in a row i would expect the rep of the league to change

Agree as well. Needs to improve as the reputations of clubs do.

I don't want to find that 20 season's into the game Cyprus has the top league in the World. Its a daft idea suggested and backed by amateurs who think of FM as an arcade game rather than a simulation. Perhaps a max and min rep per country would be better?

I don't want to find that 20 season's into the game Cyprus has the top league in the World. Its a daft idea suggested and backed by amateurs who think of FM as an arcade game rather than a simulation. Perhaps a max and min rep per country would be better?

I think you'll find its the other way round and you are making yourself sound foolish by your comments.

You've been here long enough to know that most experienced FM users are in favour of dynamic league reps and it is one of major improvements that could be made to long term saves.

I don't want to find that 20 season's into the game Cyprus has the top league in the World. Its a daft idea suggested and backed by amateurs who think of FM as an arcade game rather than a simulation. Perhaps a max and min rep per country would be better?

Didnt see anyone mentioning that should happen.. (Cyprus example)

And what you say implies that FM is realistic. Well maybe in the English (and Spanish/Italian leagues).

However there are a lot of other leagues that are terribly represented and arent realistic at all. From TV ££, to the players they can attract, reps, etc...

Seeing as a lot of stuff isnt really working that well I dont really see much of a risk in dynamic league reps...

I don't want to find that 20 season's into the game Cyprus has the top league in the World. Its a daft idea suggested and backed by amateurs who think of FM as an arcade game rather than a simulation. Perhaps a max and min rep per country would be better?

1) Esperienced players have wanted this change to be introduced for years.

2) In reality, over time, any league can become great, or at least more important. If somebody wealthy took over a Romanian team and in they started doing OK in European competition, then it would become more likely that other Romanian teams would be taken over and in turn it would provide greater competition within the league and the standard would continue to improve, and as this happens it would be recognised as a better league than it once was, and therefore its reputation will have improved.

Over time any league can improve its repution. If its done properly in the game then it could be very good, although the problem would be if they made it so a league could go from terrible to brilliant in 5 years, it would have to be a slow process.

another for dynamic league reputation.

It would be a great long-term feature.

I don't want to find that 20 season's into the game Cyprus has the top league in the World. Its a daft idea suggested and backed by amateurs who think of FM as an arcade game rather than a simulation. Perhaps a max and min rep per country would be better?

Im positive this has been dicussed many many times before! but here goes...

I think both ideas should be inplemented. A dynamic league rep, but with max and min values across some of the leagues...

For instance, the EPL will NEVER become one of the worst leagues in the world, the history of clubs like Man Utd and Liverpool ensure that a massive fan base will always exist across the globe = Decent money = Decent players + Decent League. For this reason a min value should be applied to represent this.

It should be noted that the rep could drop from where it is now though, it should not just be locked.

Also, if for instance a team from Cyprus/Luxemburg/Switzerland etc.. starts doing really well, the chances are the league rep will go up, but due to the lack of global history, global interest and sufficient background attached to these teams they will NEVER reach that of Real Madrid/Man utd etc... So it should be capped to represent this.

Big clubs will ALWAYS stay relatively big clubs, coz they are so attractive to new younger fans. New clubs will come and go.

Big clubs will ALWAYS stay relatively big clubs, coz they are so attractive to new younger fans. New clubs will come and go.

I'm not so sure about that... AC Milan is desperately trying to change that.

It makes sense that the league rep would be related to and in some way derived from club reps, which is in turn related to club success, amongst other things. Thus countries with many large clubs (e.g. spain, england, italy) will always have a relatively high league rep, because of the teams they possess.

It would take a heck of a long time for cyprus, or any small league now to become the best in the world, because it would take many teams to increase their rep to significantly improve on the rep of a league. For example, Portugal has 3 successful teams, and has won the CL in recent years, but this is not one of the greatest leagues in the world. Why? Because there are only 3 really good teams (no offense to other portuguese teams, we are talking really good in a world sense here afterall).

So, not wanting this in because you don't want to see cyprus becoming the world best league in 20 years makes very little sense. And not wanting it because it lacks 'realism' is, well, one of the stranger comments i have read on here.

Cyprus probably wouldn't become the best team in the world without a series of very very unlikely events such as a massive boost in income to most clubs/the country, a few great managers and a sudden crop of amazing players. It could happen, but it probably won't. Which is why dynamic league reputation would be really good, these things are unlikely to happen, but they can.

Ive had a think about this and ive got an idea but im not sure on a couple of points.

1) As far as im aware a clubs rep CAN increase/decrease depending on performance.

2) A league reputation can NOT increase no matter how well the clubs in that league are doing.

Now here is my idea assuming the above is correct, but this may not work for leagues like Scotland with only a few teams in the league.

The league reputation being calculated by taking the average rep of all the teams involved. Also taking into account Uefa Co-efficients or whichever co-efficients your league uses.

This way a leagues rep would be determined on how well all teams do in Europe/Other comps/Domestic comps. For the last few seasons England has had say 3/4 teams in the CL semi final and quite a few teams in the final stages of the Uefa Cup. Which now makes it the top league in Europe.

This year you would expect leagues like France and Germany to increase slightly due to teams from these countries progressing to the final stages of the European Cups. When the clubs reps increase because of this, the leagues rep would also increase slightly because the average of the league would be increased because of these clubs rising.

Sorry, hope you can follow this. Its just an idea

It would be ok without dynamic league rep aslong as the clubs reputation wasnt capped at the end of every season.

Ive had a think about this and ive got an idea but im not sure on a couple of points.

1) As far as im aware a clubs rep CAN increase/decrease depending on performance.

2) A league reputation can NOT increase no matter how well the clubs in that league are doing.

Now here is my idea assuming the above is correct, but this may not work for leagues like Scotland with only a few teams in the league.

The league reputation being calculated by taking the average rep of all the teams involved. Also taking into account Uefa Co-efficients or whichever co-efficients your league uses.

This way a leagues rep would be determined on how well all teams do in Europe/Other comps/Domestic comps. For the last few seasons England has had say 3/4 teams in the CL semi final and quite a few teams in the final stages of the Uefa Cup. Which now makes it the top league in Europe.

This year you would expect leagues like France and Germany to increase slightly due to teams from these countries progressing to the final stages of the European Cups. When the clubs reps increase because of this, the leagues rep would also increase slightly because the average of the league would be increased because of these clubs rising.

Sorry, hope you can follow this. Its just an idea

That's actually the best idea I've heard to be honest...

I don't want to 'pile on' to the naysayer here, so I will focus on why this would be a good addition. Number one, the main competitor (FIFA Manager) has had this feature for years; and yes...I used to play them both two years ago. As a far superior game in NEARLY every category, FM should have a feature like this when their competitors already do. Number two, leagues obviously ebb and flow in their reputation all the time. Think of English football before the change-over to the EPL. Probably not as widely respected as say Serie A. Now, the roles are switched. Number three, there is NO REDEEMING VALUE to managing a small club side from B.F.E. (a colloquial expression we use in this country that I must use only initials for so I don't get modded ). If I make a small side in a smaller league a power, the only thing that can come out of it is that I can get noticed by a bigger side somewhere. None of us are suggesting that this will turn into the 'people's revolution' of soccer whereby all smaller sides unite and overthrow the bigger sides. However, history has demonstrated that smaller sides, when properly cared for and financed can become powerful and improve the overall quality of their league. (Hello! This is how French soccer is what it is now!) Think of St. Etienne in the 1970s; think of Lyon for the last decade; think of Marseille, etc. The same thing is happening in the Turkish Premier Division. The major clubs in Istanbul are making that whole league better. Outside of Europe (yes, there is soccer/football outside of Europe), this happens too. The Mexican Primera Division has improved greatly and is quickly gaining on the leagues of Argentina and Brazil. The K-League is the dominant league in the Far East. The list goes on and on. Finally, the best reason for an addition like this is that it adds value to the idea/dream that we are all fantasy managers besting the likes of Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho, Rafa Benitez, Scolari, Ancelotti and the rest. If we take over the Man United's and Real Madrid's of the world, we should be able to 'out simulate' them because we just took over the teams with the most resources at their disposal. However, if we take over the Nottingham's and Steau Bucharest's (are they even around anymore?) and bring them back to their Champions League glory and thereby improve our respective leagues evermore, then all the better for us as we have demonstrated our gaming superiority by taking the little guy to the top of the mountain. I know a lot of guys try the LLM on this game but the American equivalent of what I am talking about is playing in a Madden (NFL video game) prize tournament and using a nothing team (Detroit Lions) to beat the socks off everybody to demonstrate your prowess...Anyway, just my thoughts...

anyway, just my thoughts...

Spot on!!!

I don't want to find that 20 season's into the game Cyprus has the top league in the World. Its a daft idea suggested and backed by amateurs who think of FM as an arcade game rather than a simulation. Perhaps a max and min rep per country would be better?

It's your post that's daft' date=' and it betrays the lack of understanding how the game work. There's no way Cyprus league would suddenly become a top world league just on it's own. It might fluctuate a bit (which[u'] is[/u] realistic - as a matter of fact, Cyprus league improved visibly the last couple of years), but without player's influence it's extremely unlikely to overtake the best competition. Just like AI-managed clubs are extremely unlikely to get back to back promotions from BSS to Premiership.

I don't want to find that 20 season's into the game Cyprus has the top league in the World. Its a daft idea suggested and backed by amateurs who think of FM as an arcade game rather than a simulation. Perhaps a max and min rep per country would be better?

Maximum and minimun reputation? Nonsense. How do you know if Cyprup isn't going the have the best league in the world? Maybe not Cyprus, but Holland or France might have.

At least you are long enough here to know that SI should put this into game.

I don't want to 'pile on' to the naysayer here, so I will focus on why this would be a good addition. Number one, the main competitor (FIFA Manager) has had this feature for years; and yes...I used to play them both two years ago. As a far superior game in NEARLY every category, FM should have a feature like this when their competitors already do. Number two, leagues obviously ebb and flow in their reputation all the time. Think of English football before the change-over to the EPL. Probably not as widely respected as say Serie A. Now, the roles are switched. Number three, there is NO REDEEMING VALUE to managing a small club side from B.F.E. (a colloquial expression we use in this country that I must use only initials for so I don't get modded ). If I make a small side in a smaller league a power, the only thing that can come out of it is that I can get noticed by a bigger side somewhere. None of us are suggesting that this will turn into the 'people's revolution' of soccer whereby all smaller sides unite and overthrow the bigger sides. However, history has demonstrated that smaller sides, when properly cared for and financed can become powerful and improve the overall quality of their league. (Hello! This is how French soccer is what it is now!) Think of St. Etienne in the 1970s; think of Lyon for the last decade; think of Marseille, etc. The same thing is happening in the Turkish Premier Division. The major clubs in Istanbul are making that whole league better. Outside of Europe (yes, there is soccer/football outside of Europe), this happens too. The Mexican Primera Division has improved greatly and is quickly gaining on the leagues of Argentina and Brazil. The K-League is the dominant league in the Far East. The list goes on and on. Finally, the best reason for an addition like this is that it adds value to the idea/dream that we are all fantasy managers besting the likes of Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho, Rafa Benitez, Scolari, Ancelotti and the rest. If we take over the Man United's and Real Madrid's of the world, we should be able to 'out simulate' them because we just took over the teams with the most resources at their disposal. However, if we take over the Nottingham's and Steau Bucharest's (are they even around anymore?) and bring them back to their Champions League glory and thereby improve our respective leagues evermore, then all the better for us as we have demonstrated our gaming superiority by taking the little guy to the top of the mountain. I know a lot of guys try the LLM on this game but the American equivalent of what I am talking about is playing in a Madden (NFL video game) prize tournament and using a nothing team (Detroit Lions) to beat the socks off everybody to demonstrate your prowess...Anyway, just my thoughts...

Block of walls. Hard to read. Edit it and write in paragraphs.

Maximum and minimun reputation? Nonsense. How do you know if Cyprup isn't going the have the best league in the world? Maybe not Cyprus, but Holland or France might have.

At least you are long enough here to know that SI should put this into game.

A minimum and maximum reputation would be a good idea. The Netherlands, France, Argentina, Brazil, etc... would obviously be able to reach a very high rep, maybe even 20/20. Countries like Cyprus, Iceland, Malta, etc... shouldn't be able to get near to 20/20. They are limited by too small local fanbase and poor geographic locations, even if they suddenly managed to flood the leagues with money they would still stuggle to become rivals to Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga and the Premier League.

The best way, but one requiring the most resources to implement, would be to have minimum and maximum that is different for each league based on ecomonics, geography, population, etc... So that China, or India could become massive, but Iceland, Malta could only become 3rd or 2nd "Tier" leagues.

A minimum and maximum reputation would be a good idea. The Netherlands, France, Argentina, Brazil, etc... would obviously be able to reach a very high rep, maybe even 20/20. Countries like Cyprus, Iceland, Malta, etc... shouldn't be able to get near to 20/20. They are limited by too small local fanbase and poor geographic locations, even if they suddenly managed to flood the leagues with money they would still stuggle to become rivals to Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga and the Premier League.

The best way, but one requiring the most resources to implement, would be to have minimum and maximum that is different for each league based on ecomonics, geography, population, etc... So that China, or India could become massive, but Iceland, Malta could only become 3rd or 2nd "Tier" leagues.

You've described two different things there.

You've said that you a max/min rep would be a good idea, then gone onto say max reputation would be based on a number of things already modelled in the database.

10-15 years ago, nobody would have thought somewhere like Dubai would have been a suddenly become the powerhouse and popular destination it is right now. Just how things turned out.

Obviously it's hard to simulate global economics etc. through football manager, but you could take a stab at it with just a load of random functions that produce low percentages (very low) that produce freak accidents like Dubai.

Just a thought.

@ Katarian: I don't agree. You can't just limit a country like that. You never know what can happen. Every league should have a chance to be 20/20, it's just the chance isn't the same for EPL and e.g. Cyprus league to be 20/20.

EPL is going to be 20/20 in two years let's say and Cyprus league is going to be 20/20 for example in 30 years. But, the point is that it should have chance to be 20/20. Like French league was any good 15 years ago. Now they are in top 5. IMO every country should have a chance to have 20/20 rep.

The same goes for players IMO. Every player IMO should have 200 PA, it's just matters what are the CHANCES of particular player reaching it. E.g. Ronaldo have much more bigger chance to reach the 200, then let's say Richard Brodie for example. But, the point is that it's not impossible for Brodie to reach 200. Evry player can, it's just quetion of his chances of reaching it.

But, let's not go away from topic now. Dynamic rivariles and league reputation please.

I dont know about that. If you start trying to predict the future your gonna run into a whole lot of trouble and it may turn out that the possibilities it throws up would make the game too unrealistic.

The only thing i'd try to implement with regards to the future is maybe coding in a 2% increase (or whatever suits) in prize monies and so on each season to reflect the new sponsorship deals that keep being made each season pumping money into the leagues and comps.

I fyour 20 years into the future on a save, the prize monies and tv monies would be nowhere near where it is now so just adding a slight coded increase each season may better reflect this.

Ive heard a lot of people complaining that in the future, regens are way too expensive to buy and it ruines long term saves. At least with this little rise in prize money each season it might bring it down somewhat.

I dont know about that. If you start trying to predict the future your gonna run into a whole lot of trouble and it may turn out that the possibilities it throws up would make the game too unrealistic. QUOTE]

Isn't this what an ongoing simulation game that plays in-perpetuity does?

I dont know about that. If you start trying to predict the future your gonna run into a whole lot of trouble and it may turn out that the possibilities it throws up would make the game too unrealistic. QUOTE]

Isn't this what an ongoing simulation game that plays in-perpetuity does?

i was actually commanting on DanTheMan999 post.

in the game at the moment, the prize money is coded so it never gets any higher. Im sure most of us can agree that it will increase by millions each time a new deal is struck. So what im proposing is they code a slight increase in prize money at the start of the game so it keeps it more realistic.

As ive said, people have complained that in long term games prices are way too high for regens. If your club isnt getting the money in then you cant do anything. If regens are costing more in the future then this is reflecting reality IMO because in a 10 years a £50m transfer will be a regular occurance but the prize money stays the same all the way through your save so this isnt fair.

i was actually commanting on DanTheMan999 post.

in the game at the moment, the prize money is coded so it never gets any higher. Im sure most of us can agree that it will increase by millions each time a new deal is struck. So what im proposing is they code a slight increase in prize money at the start of the game so it keeps it more realistic.

As ive said, people have complained that in long term games prices are way too high for regens. If your club isnt getting the money in then you cant do anything. If regens are costing more in the future then this is reflecting reality IMO because in a 10 years a £50m transfer will be a regular occurance but the prize money stays the same all the way through your save so this isnt fair.

Makes sense. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Kind of ignorant, don't you think? The EPL wasn't always the greatest league. It got there over a period of time. Surely other leagues will challenge it or even potentially knock it off...

It takes external factors. Not footballing reasons.

Besides, when smaller clubs from weaker leagues over-perform, the best players and the managers move to bigger clubs and stronger leagues.

I don't want to find that 20 season's into the game Cyprus has the top league in the World. Its a daft idea suggested and backed by amateurs who think of FM as an arcade game rather than a simulation. Perhaps a max and min rep per country would be better?

20 years ago this league was one of the strongest leagues in europe, right after Italy, Spain, England, Germany and France. My team was european and world champion in 1991. Now we are **** and we cant even enter CL.

But why wouldnt it be possible that in 20 or 30 games our league again enters top 10 european leagues? IT IS POSSIBLE, just like it was possible for it to drop out of it.

You, my friend, are an amateur.

It takes external factors. Not footballing reasons.

Besides, when smaller clubs from weaker leagues over-perform, the best players and the managers move to bigger clubs and stronger leagues.

If anyone gives the "Porto example" I suggest them not to. I bet they wont know what they are talking about.

I agree with the thumbs up for Dynamic League Rep.

But...

Why not a minimum and maximum rep? Theres PA for players so why not? Surely if the limits(min/max) are set to a good level then it would be realistic enough... If players are unhappy with it they could always change it in the editor themselves? eg maybe someone thinks well i want to be a team from Cyprus and i want it to be possible for the league to get a rep of 20 eventually then they can set it themselves!

I would say a realistic level for me would be that league like Cyprus would probably at max get to the level of the French League and leagues like Spain, England France would never go below the French league or maybe 1 value lower due to their history and fan bases(plus the researchers/SI would probably be the best people to give these predictions anyway)! But as i said... people that aren't happy with that would be able to change it themselves in the editor.

The main thing is tht club reputations shouldnt be capped at the end of every season, this happens in every league aprt from england italy and spain, lyon seem to go on a slow decrease losing all of teir players, it should be possible to have a team in a league that is far better than the rest, like barcelona and madrid, ie reputation higher than 3rd and 4th place. I think atleast that reputation cap needs to removed first, before adding dynamic league rep.

It takes external factors. Not footballing reasons.

Besides, when smaller clubs from weaker leagues over-perform, the best players and the managers move to bigger clubs and stronger leagues.

Not always. You obviously didn't read my longer post about this subject. Ligue 1 in France is probably the most obvious example here...

I'm also in favour of dynamic league reputation, but this needs to be done throughout the game, so also dynamic tv money, dynamic sponsorship money (not the "its always the same" stuff there is mostly in the game now), dynamic ticket prices, etc. etc. Otherwise there is still a cap on growth just due to lack of funds...

The Russian Premier League is an example of a rising reputation league, 7 years ago that league wasn't as famous as it is today, and the quality of players is increasing every year. Also, it's reputation has been increasing since fm2005 till now.

Dynamic rivals and league reputations is a MUST now.

About league reps, what SI could put is just a "Minimum reputation", because Spanish, English and Italian leagues, for example, will never become unknown and will still be important leagues because of their history. All leagues should be able to get to max rep, but at least put a minimum

Dynamic league rep yes yes! Rhetorical question. Why does there always have to be some numbnuts forever posting stooopid comments on forums. People should just ****ing grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dynamic league rep yes yes! Rhetorical question. Why does there always have to be some numbnuts forever posting stooopid comments on forums. People should just ****ing grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chill out Tim

I think this is a pretty stupid thread tbh...

You have to remember

That "Cyprus being the best in 20 years" gag could only happen if they had both the money and ability to have multiple teams playing well for year after year for about 20 years

If you were to play 50 years within FM you'll still find the teams from the same countries dominating most years, the only thing that might change is which teams

The main bit is balance, many of us want dynamic reputation (infact it has been posted about before I even came here, and I've been here 7 years), but the key is making sure it takes time and effort and not have a country be the best after only a couple of years of winning top titles

But remember, simulation or not, it's a game and sometimes gameplay must take priority over realism