English players are VASTLY over-rated

England win everything by 2-3 goals under Mclaren in my first season with 8.02 ..

Players are mnassively pumped compared to reality?

I mean look at this stat sheet for Cashly Cole ffs.

Tackling 18?!

All the English internationals seem to be so-overated. It makes the national team a steam roller ..

Anyone else noticed this? Or have I just got an absurdly powerful set of random stats?

England win everything by 2-3 goals under Mclaren in my first season with 8.02 ..

Players are mnassively pumped compared to reality?

I mean look at this stat sheet for Cashly Cole ffs.

Tackling 18?!

All the English internationals seem to be so-overated. It makes the national team a steam roller ..

Anyone else noticed this? Or have I just got an absurdly powerful set of random stats?

England players are individually good but cant play as a team.

Obviously on FM they are playing as a team and its showing with the wins which IRL we cant do to save our life.

Ashley Cole is having a bad ran at the minute but 18 is about right. Didnt you see him mark and tackle Ronaldo out of the game in Euro 04

I don't think it's necessarily a case of them being over rated (I'm not going to argue about attributes as I'm not in a position to judge players I don't see on a week in week out basis for a full 90 minutes) but more the difficulty in implementing all the different factors that affect how a team performs. Many pundits and fans have speculated that England's performances aren't just about their abilities, but also about tactical cohesion and the weight of expectations on their shoulders. These are things which are difficult to accurately model.

A good example of this is Shevchenko. He's a proven goalscorer in one of the most defensive leagues in the world, in the Champion's League and at international level. Yet he just hasn't done it in the Premiership because of various factors other than his proven ability. Yet in FM because his attributes are still assigned with reference to his past performances he is an excellent striker in the game.

Also McClaren might be a bit over rated too which has an effect. And if you are using an updated database with Capello in charge then that's just the icing on the cake for England in the FM world.

Then again it might be the patriotic English developers giving their home nation a boost

England team have some of the best players in the world

I mean Lamparad/Gerard and Beckham in midfield is pure inspiration

Ferdinand and Terry are problem the best defenders in the world right.Ashley cole is great LB.

Owen was and still is one of the best strikers in the world and Rooney without a doubt is top 5 striker in teh world..

IN term of Transfer Value/Wages and etc English Nationa team by far exceed everyone else by a a huge margin.

Bassicly its bad luck that england cant win huge tournemanet.

1998 World Cup Penalties ...

2002 They defeated against eventual champions Brazil after Seamon idiotic mistake...

2004 Euro penalties 1/4 final

2006 Wolrd Cup Penalties 1/4 final

red card for england also

2008 Euro cup.. no comment

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JReacher:

Owen was and still is one of the best strikers in the world </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good one!

I meant when he is injury free he can great

In the past he didnt have trouble wiht injuries and was kicking ass.. now he is like ronaldo play 1 game miss 5

Michael Owen is like FM - he's great once he's been patched up! Until the next time that is.....

They have one more similiraty

In both cases u get tired of waiting to be fixed and move on ...)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IN term of Transfer Value/Wages and etc English Nationa team by far exceed everyone else by a a huge margin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is because all of them (apart form Beckham) play in England, where the players values are higher than in other countries.

It doesn't mean they are any better than foreign players.

English fans think they are going to win everything but infact there players are not good enough to win anything.

The English Prem is good but is filled with high paid foreigners.

Plus you cannot compare Rooney to Henry or Toni.

You cannot compare Lennon to Ronaldo.

You cannot compare Gerrard to Kaka or Puyol.

You cant compare paul Robinson to Paddy Kenny.

Cant compare all of the English team to the world beaters.

So get off your high horses and settle for reaching the 1/4 finals. No shame in that.

For their respective clubs English players often play very good, hence why they are rated so highly on the game.

Obviously the problem in real life is as a team England are dreadful, but this unfortunately isn't the case in FM. In FM they actually play as a team, therefore they appear to be over rated.

England DO have the potential to do very well and compete with the best teams in the world. This is why the English fans are so angry and fed up, because we have not come anywhere near that potential. It's like watching a group of players who have never met each other.

Hopefully under Capello things will change and the rest of the world can finally see what this group of players are capable of when they work together

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jordan_fm:

You cannot compare Gerrard to Kaka or Puyol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you compare him to Elano?

And don't be silly, Gerrard and Rooney are world class.

I don't think anyone is silly enough to make an argument for Lennon being near as good as Ronaldo, or Robinson as.. well.. anyone!

The England team are like all of the teams in this little part of the world: Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Scotland and Wales (in no particular order).

Relative to other national teams there is an obvious inability to hold possession and control the tempo of a match, and have an end product. This was evident for England against Croatia, and as difficult as it is for me to say, when the Republic of Ireland played Cyprus at home the Cypriots, when they wanted to, were able to take control and hold possession. Admittedly the Republic aren't exactly choc a bloc with star players but the perceived level that the Irish players play in every week is much higher than that of their Cypriot counterparts. Yet the Cypriots at times played us off the park.

I can't think of a single central midfielder in any of the Home Nations and Republic of Ireland who is really capable of taking possession of the ball and controlling the tempo of a match or making that killer pass against a solid defense. I wouldn't be surprised if the rumours about Capello trying to coax Scholes out of retirement were true because of this missing element. Nor have I seen any of these countries do it as a unit.

You could write a thesis on all the factors that might be the cause of this but in my opinion anytime I watch one of the nations from the UK/ROI it's the same old story. Giving up possession cheaply and no final product other than crossing. One dimensional is the phrase that springs to mind.

All these quotes I am responding to have originally being posted by JReacher:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">England team have some of the best players in the world

I mean Lamparad/Gerard and Beckham in midfield is pure inspiration </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lampard and Gerrard have never worked well together. Gerrard has been rubbish, no, terrible for England for the past couple of years. Yes fair enough Beckham continues to perform despite now playing Mickey Mouse Football in America.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ferdinand and Terry are problem the best defenders in the world right.Ashley cole is great LB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

John Terry has many faults, his main one is exposed at international level, and that is that he lacks pace. Rio Ferdinand is a quality player, but has a tendancy to lose concerntration. At international level you simply cant do that. Ashely Cole is still a very good player, but he best years were in 2003/2004 when at Arsenal, nowadays Wayne Bridge is easily better.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Owen was and still is one of the best strikers in the world and Rooney without a doubt is top 5 striker in teh world.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Michael Owen was fantastic, now he lacks the great pace he had and needs to prove an awful lot before he can be considered great again. Wayne Rooney is not one of the top 5 strikers in the world. That is the daffest thing I have heard in ages, and I am a Manchester United supporter who goes to every game home and away, so I feel fairly well qualified to say that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">IN term of Transfer Value/Wages and etc English Nationa team by far exceed everyone else by a a huge margin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And just because a National Team's squad is highly valued in terms of transfer fee's and wages doesn't make them the best TEAM in the world. It may mean they are some of the best players, but not TEAM.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Bassicly its bad luck that england cant win huge tournemanet.

1998 World Cup Penalties ...

2002 They defeated against eventual champions Brazil after Seamon idiotic mistake...

2004 Euro penalties 1/4 final

2006 Wolrd Cup Penalties 1/4 final

red card for england also

2008 Euro cup.. no comment </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it's not bad luck;

1998 World Cup - Inability to take penalties

Euro 2000 - Knocked in Group stages, shambles

2002 World Cup - Took the lead and failed to hold it. Played 10-men for half an hour and didn't create a decent effort.

Euro 2004 - Took the lead and failed to hold it. Inability to take penalties

2006 World Cup - Stupid sending off, Inability to take penalties (again)

Euro 2008 - Terrible in qualifying

I tell you what JReacher, I got up early to watch some of the cricket on Sky Sports and mull about around here, I never thought you would give me such a good laugh.

Back to the point of the thread, and yes England players are slightly overrated in the game. But in the game if you throw many good players together then they will perform. Unfortunately it is not quite that simple in real life.

Aye, where are the Hoddles, Brookings, Bradys of the modern era. It's all blood, guts and stamina. Gerrard, for all his qualities, cannot, in FM terms, Dictate Tempo. Not one England player can, although I did once have high hopes for Carrick.

The last two England qualified players that could do that were Gasgoigne (who was too temperamental to be really good at it) and Le Tissier (who was rarely, for club or country, allowed to play in that role). Joe Cole has the technique, but not the mental aptitude, and is also never played in central midifield. Beckham had the technique but not the vision (which he might have developed had he ever been allowed to play in central midfield). Roy Keane could do it, although in a different manner than the flair players I have previously mentioned.

Will anyone come through the ranks with these types of skills? From what I have read in terms of coaching development in the UK, probably not for a long while. Too much emphasis on competition at a young age. Rather than teaching kids to keep hold of the ball and learning to play their way out of trouble (risky but required for them to develop keep the ball technique) coaches drill them to clear it at all costs to stop the other team capitalising on a mistake, and, God forbid, win the South West Berkshire U-10s league in their stead!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Beckham had the technique but not the vision (which he might have developed had he ever been allowed to play in central midfield). Roy Keane could do it, although in a different manner than the flair players I have previously mentioned. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Beckham had/has superb vision. His ability to see a players movement and deliver a pass was one of his best attributes for God's sake!!

As for Roy Keane, he's bloody Irish so he has nothing to do with anything concerning the England national team!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Beckham had the technique but not the vision (which he might have developed had he ever been allowed to play in central midfield). Roy Keane could do it, although in a different manner than the flair players I have previously mentioned. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Beckham had/has superb vision. His ability to see a players movement and deliver a pass was one of his best attributes for God's sake!!

As for Roy Keane, he's bloody Irish so he has nothing to do with anything concerning the England national team! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If Beckham did have the vision to run a team from central midfield, why did none of his managers every play him there (for more than a few games anyway)? He has a wonderful range of passes, which is not to be disputed, but he is no Zidane, Pirlo or Alonso. I have the greatest respect for him, but he is not, and never was, a world class central midfielder. World class right winger, perhaps. Had he been played in the middle more often, perhaps he would have deloped the type of vision required for a Dictates Tempo kind of player, but I still believe he never had it.

As for Roy Keane, the post two above mine referenced British and Irish football, so I think I was well within the parameters of the debate to mention him.

God grief!

Beckham has great crossing. So it's only common sense to play him down the flank. There really would be no point in playing him in Central, all he really would have there is his free kicks.

But in order for a cross to be effective, you have to have great headers aswell.

Beckham could hit a 70yard pass, but did you ever really see him get the ball and control the game? He was played in CM a few times and he just couldnt do it.

Plus the fact on the right, albeit for a massive lack of pace, he always had the knack of putting it on the strikers head 6 yards out.

I remember a few years back when nearly every goal came from a Beckham assist.

He gets a lot of flack but his assist record must of been really good for England.

This is an issue on which FM has failed to reflect reality forever. English players are good, but not that good. Generally, they are great at physical attributes, OK at technical and bad at intelligence (not because they are stupid, but because all that physical play leads them to focus on strength and aggression instead of decisions etc). English players are also overhyped by the media, which is cool and fun to follow, but it does not reflect their true value (which is high, just not SO high).

Anyway, to put it as it absolutely is, FM just fails to reflect reality and its results in this case. No matter what the reason is, I think we all agree on this. SI should be taking steps to recognise the problem (assuming the reason may be something different to what I just explained) and rectify it.

It would also help if a lot more English players played abroad!!

I am always smiling when I see the English wonderkids from FM in real. English people seem to overate their players year in year out.

You are even worse then us, the Dutch.

england does have some very good world class players, however the english style of football lets them down. poms are fitter and have more passion etc when they play but lack other capabilities. i think rather than skill or players it is the english style that is crap to watch and fails to get the results.

even excellant foreign players when playing in an english style of football team (liverpool, chelsea) look as crap as the english players.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jordan_fm:

English fans think they are going to win everything but infact there players are not good enough to win anything.

The English Prem is good but is filled with high paid foreigners.

Plus you cannot compare Rooney to Henry or Toni.

You cannot compare Lennon to Ronaldo.

You cannot compare Gerrard to Kaka or Puyol.

You cant compare paul Robinson to Paddy Kenny.

Cant compare all of the English team to the world beaters.

So get off your high horses and settle for reaching the 1/4 finals. No shame in that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be a great comparison if a World XI was entered into international competition. Since there isn't a team with all those players in then you are not comparing like for like.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Beckham had the technique but not the vision (which he might have developed had he ever been allowed to play in central midfield). Roy Keane could do it, although in a different manner than the flair players I have previously mentioned. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Beckham had/has superb vision. His ability to see a players movement and deliver a pass was one of his best attributes for God's sake!!

As for Roy Keane, he's bloody Irish so he has nothing to do with anything concerning the England national team! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If Beckham did have the vision to run a team from central midfield, why did none of his managers every play him there (for more than a few games anyway)? He has a wonderful range of passes, which is not to be disputed, but he is no Zidane, Pirlo or Alonso. I have the greatest respect for him, but he is not, and never was, a world class central midfielder. World class right winger, perhaps. Had he been played in the middle more often, perhaps he would have deloped the type of vision required for a Dictates Tempo kind of player, but I still believe he never had it.

As for Roy Keane, the post two above mine referenced British and Irish football, so I think I was well within the parameters of the debate to mention him.

God grief! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He was played on the flank due to IMO the greatest crossing abilty ever witnessed in a long time.

He was played in the middle when he started at real and this made his wing poerformances for england dire.

The fact is, for their clubs, the England players are great and do look world-class. It's why you've had other national managers wishing they could be part of their set-up. Sadly, whenever they are picked for England, they don't seem able to get it together. Some of this is down to weight of expectation, although in some players' cases, it looks more like they really can't be bothered (I'm sure you all know who I mean); it's like it's an honour to play for their club, but country? Sod that.

As a kind of aside, the fans are also partly to blame. Against the Swiss, the fans booed when the ball went back to the halfway line. Next thing, the ball goes forward and Joe Cole gets a shot away. How many would have booed had that gone in?

Fact is, sometimes you need to go backwards to open the opposition out and create space. Yes, the fans booed...but what if the ball had been aimlessly pumped into the box, with only Rooney there (against Senderos, who has several inches on Shrek) to aim at.

So, the English players may not be over-rated in terms of their clubs - those stats would be accurate - but obviously FM can't have the same player with completely different stats depending on whether they play for club or country...can it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JReacher:

England team have some of the best players in the world

I mean Lamparad/Gerard and Beckham in midfield is pure inspiration

Ferdinand and Terry are problem the best defenders in the world right.Ashley cole is great LB.

Owen was and still is one of the best strikers in the world and Rooney without a doubt is top 5 striker in teh world..

IN term of Transfer Value/Wages and etc English Nationa team by far exceed everyone else by a a huge margin.

Bassicly its bad luck that england cant win huge tournemanet.

1998 World Cup Penalties ...

2002 They defeated against eventual champions Brazil after Seamon idiotic mistake...

2004 Euro penalties 1/4 final

2006 Wolrd Cup Penalties 1/4 final

red card for england also

2008 Euro cup.. no comment </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Terry and Ferdinand are the best defenders in the world? Watch the Italian league. Actually, just watch Manchester United play and see how poor Ferdinand compared to Vidic. Terry is great but hes not the best in the world, despite what Football Manager might say.

Rooney is in the top 5 strikers in the world? How many goals has he scored in the league this season? He is top 5 YOUNG strikers in the world, along with Benzema, Pato etc. The best strikers in the world are Ibrahimovic, Fernando Torres, Thierry Henry, Eto etc.

Michael Owen was in his prime at Real Madrid and Liverpool. He was good because he had pace. He no longer has pace and surprise, he is not scoring anywhere near as much. Stop overrating the national team.

Ashley Cole's tackling is more like 15. Hes a great left back or an expensive leftback? There are many better leftbacks. He was quality at Arsenal but now I don't think hes one of the best.

Also, stop mentioning penalties as if thats a good thing. Its not like we lost on penalties to the winners of the competitions all the time. We lost against Portugal who were not a complete international side at the time. They still aren't, hence the 3-1 thumping which Italy gave them recently. I doubt we could give them that.

Lampard/Gerrard are only proven in the premier league. I don't see how thats "pure inspiration". Lets not even talk about how poor premiership defences are compared to Italy and hence how many deflected goals Lampard scores. Gerrard is worldclass, no doubt but I don't think Lampard is pure inspiration. Also, Gerrard is used to the team being revolved around him now. England can't do that. Beckham is proven in two competitive leagues but now hes old and playing in a poor league. Thats Mclaren's fault but oh well.

FM is very realistic.They are as over-rated in FM as they are in real life.

As previously mentioned england are a great team of individuals but it must be said they are not up there with the best.

English fans put too much pressure on their player to perform and time and time again they collapse.

Wayne Rooney is the most over-rated player in real life.He is in poor form and he is in ronaldo's shadow right now.

People saying rooney is one of the best strikers in the world doesn't know their football.

English players have been OVERRATED since forever on CM and FM and nothing about that is going to change ever.....not till the game comes from the country itself.

The guys at SI just cant seem to be able to resist to give them GREAT ratings.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by www2:

English players have been OVERRATED since forever on CM and FM and nothing about that is going to change ever.....not till the game comes from the country itself.

The guys at SI just cant seem to be able to resist to give them GREAT ratings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI don't do the player attributes, volountary researchers of the players respective clubs do. If you've got a problem with the ratings of certain players, go and take it up with the rseeacher, in the relevant thread, in the data forum. That's the only way your points will be seen by the people who can actually do something about it, talking about it in here will get you nowhere.

*researcher

European footballers focus on skill, tactical awareness, keeping the ball and keeping it on the ground. However, the English style of play does not do that at all, instead relying alot on athleticism and movement.

SI needs to do some more work in order to model differences in playstyles. A single stat - 'Decisions' - isnt' enough, I think they should be doing this via Player Preferred Moves instead.

English players have long been overrated in FM, especially Peter Crouch.

Personally, I don't think English players are overrated in the slightest. We have some quality players, IMO, Cole is one of the best left backs in the world, Terry and Fedinand are two of the best centre backs, we have possibly the best box to box midfielder in Gerrard and Rooney is a quality playmaker forward, though I don't rate him as a striker.

The real problems for England are a lack good enough players to call upon, which I feel is well reflected in FM, and a lack of team cohession, which is something I don't feel is well represented in FM at all.

England have lacked a manager that has motivated the players, and got them playing as a team for a long time, and this was most evident under McLaren, especially in the Croatia game. Players like Gerrard went from being stars for their club team, to being almost completley unable to pass a ball when playing for England. This rarely ever happens in FM.

Finally, by some of the logic shown in this thread, the Spanish players must also be overrated. In my games, they always do even better then England do, yet are probably the only national team that compete with the English when it comes to bottling it. Does this mean that players such as Torres, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Ramos and Villa should be downgraded just because the Spanish team doesn't do very well IRL? Or does it suggest that in the game, it's too easy to get players who don't play together regularly, playing well?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aston_martin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by www2:

English players have been OVERRATED since forever on CM and FM and nothing about that is going to change ever.....not till the game comes from the country itself.

The guys at SI just cant seem to be able to resist to give them GREAT ratings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI don't do the player attributes, volountary researchers of the players respective clubs do. If you've got a problem with the ratings of certain players, go and take it up with the rseeacher, in the relevant thread, in the data forum. That's the only way your points will be seen by the people who can actually do something about it, talking about it in here will get you nowhere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You didnt understand me or i didnt put it right.

I know the researchers do the ratings stuff, but obviuslly (sp) if some researcher put tackling of 20 to Michael Owen (just an example) than someone at SI shouldnt implement that in the GOLD version of the game

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JReacher:

England team have some of the best players in the world

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure they have great tv's to watch euro 2008 on this summer

On a serious note, English players have been overrated in fm for years already. I don't deny there are great English players, and players like Gerrard and Rooney deserve good stats, but in general there are way too many and too good English talents in the game compared to other big football nations.

i'm sorry, although a brazilian myself, i like watching english football. It reminds basketball because it's so fast paced.

But i believe the argument that "England players are individually good but cant play as a team" is extremely flawed.

That are good to very good players that strive in the english game atmosphere and style and then look amazing but, for me, england has no truly world class players (especially in midfield and upfront).

English players are very hard working and i admire them for that, but there's no real flair, creativity... England doesnt have a messi, a kaka, a cristiano ronaldo.

Rooney plays with passion, he's very determined, but it's his heart and not his technical "atributtes" that make him an idol. You seem to love Owen. Never saw him play before going to real madrid, but after that i believe injuries got to him. You treat him as someone out of this world but all i see is subpar performances.

In Brazil, Lampard would play as a holding defensive midfielder probably (a very good one at that) and gerrad, well, he's a little bit different, i agree, but not something out of this world.

if England national team didn't had other factors to make it worse (pressure of sports jornalists, irrealistic expectations from fans, players that are celebrities, a whole industrie behind the national team etc) maybe they would play better, but they wouldn't be world beaters.

So, yes, i think english players are overated in fm, but i understand why they are. I think is very dificult for a england researcher to have a global view of the game when every second he's hearing everywhere that england has the best players, the best league, the most money, etc.

there should be a team chemistry factor then england wouldn't be so good. the players are technically very good but have no sense of tactical cohesion. this is why newcastle always do amazing and everton and blackburn are awful in FM cos newcastle have good players but no team spirit and no ability to play together. there should also be an effect on the team if the manager's style of play doesn't suit the players (ahem, Sam allardyce)

Can any of us actually talk about this, how many people here have played football to the elite level and know the game and know what to look for in PRO Players. its all very well sitting in you chair playing a football SIM but none of us here have played elite level football, when i say elite level footbal, i mean people who have got caps for there countrys senior team, or elite standard league teams, prem teams etc.

For as long as i remember the English team (and i am very close to my 40's) it always had good managers and crap players , i remember a guy named "Parker" in a world cup , a guy named "Adams" playing for Arsenal , some bozo goalkeepers , hilarious strikers like David Plat and other guys that could made me laugh all day long.

I understand that English research team is a typical English one and would probably give Mr Puskas a CA of 140 to compete against their local gods so complaining is of no point.

There is an editor in the game , you can always use it to make things as you think they should be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by www2:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aston_martin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by www2:

English players have been OVERRATED since forever on CM and FM and nothing about that is going to change ever.....not till the game comes from the country itself.

The guys at SI just cant seem to be able to resist to give them GREAT ratings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SI don't do the player attributes, volountary researchers of the players respective clubs do. If you've got a problem with the ratings of certain players, go and take it up with the rseeacher, in the relevant thread, in the data forum. That's the only way your points will be seen by the people who can actually do something about it, talking about it in here will get you nowhere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You didnt understand me or i didnt put it right.

I know the researchers do the ratings stuff, but obviuslly (sp) if some researcher put tackling of 20 to Michael Owen (just an example) than someone at SI shouldnt implement that in the GOLD version of the game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A bit of both there I think mate, I get what your saying now

People saying English players are rubbish because they aren't in the same class as Kaka, et al, are surely missing the point. There aren't many players in that group. You have world-class players and then you have a small bunch of guys who are from another planet. Kaka and C.Ronaldo are two of them, but just because someone is Brazilian or whatever doesn't make him a better player than an English one by default.

I said before that there is a difference in the way they play for club and for country. For club, the FM stats are more or less accurate. For country (comparing IRL performances), they are way off. Fabio Capello has already raised the issue of why they are 'supermen' for their clubs, but underperform/underachieve at international level.

As for no one playing abroad...didn't I read this morning that Lampard might be off to Spain? He is just one, but the interest is growing again - not that they'll leave the Premier League, because that's where the money is these days (and that alone might be a big part of England's 'problem').

I could go on about social factors behind it, such as the England players are typical of their generation in that there's not a lot of national pride in England nowadays, and again it ia a part of it, but given that FM stats are representative of CLUB performance, etc, there isn't any way to reflect all the reasons for international underperformance in the game.

Soz if this ends as double post.

Meant to mention coaching. I recently took my nephew and a couple of his mates to the park for a kickabout. I said, "Right, stand in a triangle and pass the ball."

They went and stood on the lumpiest bit of ground they could find, so far apart they had to lump the ball to each other (in the air, obviously, due to the nature of the ground).

I got them and asked what they were doing.

"It's how we do it at school," came the reply. "But only for about 10 minutes - the rest of the time is spent running."

Now yeah, running is important, but 10 minutes with the ball out of an hour, standing so far apart it beggars belief, on ground you'd need a steamroller to get into any sort of shape (slight exaggeration, but you get the idea)?

I took them over to a much more even space (turned out to be a cricket square; never mind, eh?), got them to stand close together, and just had them knock it about between themselves.

Know what? They were useless, but said later that they had had more fun doing that (and other 'technical' things) than they had ever done at school/in coaching. I found that quite sad.

in the game most of the english players are over rated for sure ... irl they are also over rated by some english managers and are usually very expensive, continental managers of the premier league prefer foreign players who are for the same talent way cheaper and who usually are more sucessfull ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gubbs:

England win everything by 2-3 goals under Mclaren in my first season with 8.02 ..

Players are mnassively pumped compared to reality?

I mean look at this stat sheet for Cashly Cole ffs.

Tackling 18?!

All the English internationals seem to be so-overated. It makes the national team a steam roller ..

Anyone else noticed this? Or have I just got an absurdly powerful set of random stats? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMFAO at the state of your game.

Looks like a frigging Commodore 64 game.

Update your game image wise mate, it looks crap.

Compared to what?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_AO:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JReacher:

England team have some of the best players in the world

I mean Lamparad/Gerard and Beckham in midfield is pure inspiration

Ferdinand and Terry are problem the best defenders in the world right.Ashley cole is great LB.

Owen was and still is one of the best strikers in the world and Rooney without a doubt is top 5 striker in teh world..

IN term of Transfer Value/Wages and etc English Nationa team by far exceed everyone else by a a huge margin.

Bassicly its bad luck that england cant win huge tournemanet.

1998 World Cup Penalties ...

2002 They defeated against eventual champions Brazil after Seamon idiotic mistake...

2004 Euro penalties 1/4 final

2006 Wolrd Cup Penalties 1/4 final

red card for england also

2008 Euro cup.. no comment </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Terry and Ferdinand are the best defenders in the world? Watch the Italian league. Actually, just watch Manchester United play and see how poor Ferdinand compared to Vidic. Terry is great but hes not the best in the world, despite what Football Manager might say.

Rooney is in the top 5 strikers in the world? How many goals has he scored in the league this season? He is top 5 YOUNG strikers in the world, along with Benzema, Pato etc. The best strikers in the world are Ibrahimovic, Fernando Torres, Thierry Henry, Eto etc.

Michael Owen was in his prime at Real Madrid and Liverpool. He was good because he had pace. He no longer has pace and surprise, he is not scoring anywhere near as much. Stop overrating the national team.

Ashley Cole's tackling is more like 15. Hes a great left back or an expensive leftback? There are many better leftbacks. He was quality at Arsenal but now I don't think hes one of the best.

Also, stop mentioning penalties as if thats a good thing. Its not like we lost on penalties to the winners of the competitions all the time. We lost against Portugal who were not a complete international side at the time. They still aren't, hence the 3-1 thumping which Italy gave them recently. I doubt we could give them that.

Lampard/Gerrard are only proven in the premier league. I don't see how thats "pure inspiration". Lets not even talk about how poor premiership defences are compared to Italy and hence how many deflected goals Lampard scores. Gerrard is worldclass, no doubt but I don't think Lampard is pure inspiration. Also, Gerrard is used to the team being revolved around him now. England can't do that. Beckham is proven in two competitive leagues but now hes old and playing in a poor league. Thats Mclaren's fault but oh well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ferdinand has been much better than vidic this season

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JReacher:

England team have some of the best players in the world

I mean Lamparad/Gerard and Beckham in midfield is pure inspiration

Ferdinand and Terry are problem the best defenders in the world right.Ashley cole is great LB.

Owen was and still is one of the best strikers in the world and Rooney without a doubt is top 5 striker in teh world..

IN term of Transfer Value/Wages and etc English Nationa team by far exceed everyone else by a a huge margin.

Bassicly its bad luck that england cant win huge tournemanet.

1998 World Cup Penalties ...

2002 They defeated against eventual champions Brazil after Seamon idiotic mistake...

2004 Euro penalties 1/4 final

2006 Wolrd Cup Penalties 1/4 final

red card for england also

2008 Euro cup.. no comment </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i can see what you guys mean by tons of good players not winning,as its the same in the states with the NBA, i think spain won the world championship this year or whatever, but no one here cares about that really...unfortunately. but constantly loosing as you show right there...there has to be something to it not just "bad luck". i think last time england won a world cup was what 1966. i hope i'm right..ur saying that for 40ish years its just been a bad run..hmm. i think its time to give credit to other teams. articles like these claiming c. ronaldo being the best player ever are just ridiculous

http://www.goal.com/en-us/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=585576

And this (and I don't mean to be offensive at all) I especially agree with:

"Most of the talk of Ronaldo being the best player in the world has come from England, where there is a tendency to claim global supremacy too easily and too quickly."

that is stolen from here

http://www.goal.com/en-us/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=574616

Seems as though the best player in the world should always be english, or at least play in england. not to say that i am completly right because I too have a bias and thats towards serie a