Can attributes still increase when a players PA is reached?

I'm just wondering whether attributes (particulry mental) can still develop if a young player has reached his PA? I have a few youngsters in my squad playing at thier potential and are decent but could use some work on thier mental atts.

Any helpful replies appreciated. Thanks.

Overall, no

But IIRC, points "re-assign" themselves, meaning while one area goes up, another will go down to compensate

I couldn't give you exact details off the top of my head though, sorry

Thanks for that.

Overall, no

But IIRC, points "re-assign" themselves, meaning while one area goes up, another will go down to compensate

I couldn't give you exact details off the top of my head though, sorry

This is correct- attributes are realigned if PA has been reached.

Worth pointing out that some attributes are CA free so can still increase, which ones depend partly on position.

Do you know if that list is still around?

The one that says which ones are CA free for which position?

DeadZone

Here is a post from The Lambs that I believe will help you

http://community.sigames.com/showpost.php?p=5024058&postcount=3

Cheers

there are no CA-free attributes. so if PA is reached nothing gets added. only re-assigned

There are CA free attributes. I know because I've been experimenting with players, their attributes and their CA for years. Why do you think there are no free attributes?

because i have experimented too. i see you talking about them, but see no proof.....

plus if you "play" with the genie scout a little you will see that it shows not only the PA that a player can reach but also the maximum attribute points. there you go

there are no CA-free attributes.

I can assure you that there are attributes that have no weightings and therefore no impact on CA. These also vary from position to position.

because i have experimented too. i see you talking about them, but see no proof.....

plus if you "play" with the genie scout a little you will see that it shows not only the PA that a player can reach but also the maximum attribute points. there you go

The link in post 7 tells me you are the one who's wrong here.

Where is the proof that substantiates your assertion that there are no free attributes that can be assigned to players?

How would someone go about proving it? I was given a tool by a person that worked on the game and it showed that certain attributes were free. I will see if I still have the developer's tool, although it was for FM09.

Edit - I don't understand the point you are making re. Genie Scout.

matthew: please stop saying the same things and say those attributes and how you provw it.

edgar: that link has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

do you know what genie scout is?

Here is a thread that might shed some light on which attributes are free, although it applies to FM09.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=75694

Thanks

where to start from?

1) this is about 2008.

2) they don't even know if it worked for 2009

3) it is only about GK

4) already some attributes (free kicks) stopped being free as you can read. enough?>

matthew: please stop saying the same things and say those attributes and how you provw it.

As a researcher I know that certain fields (which vary from position to position) have no weightings and thus no impact on CA. On the researchers editor it outlines the weightings for all attributes and how they vary from position to position. I'm not going to prove it in any way, so you will have to take my word for it. Ask any other researcher and they will confirm it to be the case.

matthew: please stop saying the same things and say those attributes and how you provw it.

edgar: that link has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Yes it does, it clearly states which attributes are free from weighting.

Why don't you prove your point.

Arrogant much?

if there is no proof, there is no fact. These are not my words, my anyone can say whatever he or she wants. You play the game as you think fit. But don't try to impose your opinion on others. case closed

if there is no proof, there is no fact. These are not my words, my anyone can say whatever he or she wants. You play the game as you think fit. But don't try to impose your opinion on others. case closed

So because you are wrong as pointed out by a couple of people now, its case closed is it?:confused:

Vangelis

1) The code underpinning the engine is the same for FM09 as it is for FM10, is it not? It has only been augmented since its previous iterations.

2) Who are they? There is a researcher on the thread I linked you to who asserts that there are certain attributes that are free for certain positions

3) You've lost me, I'm afraid. You can quite clearly see that there are many outfield players mentioned on that thread

4) I was experimenting. When someone demonstrated that my assertion was incorrect I accepted that I was wrong.

A researcher has responded to you on this thread and told you that certain attributes are free for certain positions. Are you prepared to entertain his claims? Or do you require firm proof before you concede your position on free attributes?

if there is no proof, there is no fact. These are not my words, my anyone can say whatever he or she wants. You play the game as you think fit. But don't try to impose your opinion on others. case closed

An eyewitness testimony from someone that has seen how data is inputted into the database is evidence. Your position has no evidence. I have no reason to lie about it, I also said ask any other researcher or ex-researcher and they will confirm it.

if there is no proof, there is no fact. These are not my words, my anyone can say whatever he or she wants. You play the game as you think fit. But don't try to impose your opinion on others. case closed

Very quick to use the "no proof" card, but where is your proof on the contrary?

I can categorically tell you, that in this case, you are misinformed. Don't believe everything Genie Scout tells you, as it is an external tool, based solely on the interpretations of the guy who created it, and can be wrong. It'll never be massively wrong, but it can be wrong.

In this case, (which is still open, btw ) - The table in the link provided in Post 7, proves beyond any reasonable doubt, that there is attributes with no weighting.

If it isn't against forum rules perhaps I could post the tool used by researchers for inputting data into the game? I know this proves that certain attributes are free for certain positions, although whether Vangelis accepts it as proof or not is a different question as the tool was used to create/input data on FM09.

For those of you in the know: was a completely new engine created for FM10, or is it the same one used for FM09 but with amendments and augmentations? Can comparisons be made be made between the versions relating to the argument of whether free attributes exist or not?

Thanks

If it isn't against forum rules perhaps I could post the tool used by researchers for inputting data into the game?

I wouldn't.

didn't i pointed out the genie scout proof? genie scout will clearly show which attributes go up and which don't in a player. case closed for me. i cannot discuss with people that don't see beyond their point of view. so there is no discussion for me, so case closed for me. you can keep it open as much as you want and have fun talking! bye!

I wouldn't do that, Pro. If SI wanted the tool to be public, I'm sure they would make it so themselves. The fact of the matter is, 1 persons opinion shouldn't hinder you so much to resort to drastic measures. It's better in a situation like this, to sit back in glee, knowing you're right. The masses also agree with you, and Vangelis will eventually see that he is misunderstanding the information given to him. It's nothing major, no need for an argument to break out, no need for heated posting, but the facts are quite clear, in this instant.

I wouldn't.

Thanks for the advice, Matthew Le God. I don't even know if I still have it, but if I find it I will keep it to myself.

Apologies if mentioning it has broken any forum rules.

Thanks

I wouldn't do that, Pro. If SI wanted the tool to be public, I'm sure they would make it so themselves. The fact of the matter is, 1 persons opinion shouldn't hinder you so much to resort to drastic measures. It's better in a situation like this, to sit back in glee, knowing you're right. The masses also agree with you, and Vangelis will eventually see that he is misunderstanding the information given to him. It's nothing major, no need for an argument to break out, no need for heated posting, but the facts are quite clear, in this instant.

Thanks, NepentheZ. It is Vangelis' claim that the absence of proof for the existence of free attributes for certain positions necessarily validates his argument that no free attributes exist that bothered me.

What constitutes proof for you, Vangelis?

Edit - Just noticed Vangelis is claiming that Genie Scout substantiates his argument that no free attributes exist. As has been mentioned, Genie Scout is a third-party program that relies on subjective interpretation to determine the significance of attributes for players in a given position. The same is true of FMRTE, and Ruci has confirmed that he is only guessing about the weighting of attributes and how valuable they are to players of a given position.

I think the statements made by a researcher who has an understanding of how the game is programmed carry more weight than any conclusion that can be drawn from Genie Scout.

Thanks

didn't i pointed out the genie scout proof? genie scout will clearly show which attributes go up and which don't in a player. case closed for me. i cannot discuss with people that don't see beyond their point of view. so there is no discussion for me, so case closed for me. you can keep it open as much as you want and have fun talking! bye!

Genie Scout isn't made by SI. It is the person that made Genie Scout's view of how the database works. It therefore maybe wrong in some regards.

The researcher editor that creates the data for FM is made by SI. I have been using and inputting data into the game for the last few years. I therefore know 100% that some attributes for some positions don't have weightings.

I really can't understand how you can argue against that!

Are you suggesting I am lying? Why would I do that?

Are you suggesting eyewitness testimony isn't evidence? Changes need to be made to the criminal justice system then.

if there is no proof, there is no fact. These are not my words, my anyone can say whatever he or she wants. You play the game as you think fit. But don't try to impose your opinion on others. case closed

Practise what you preach! Having had a discussion in a thread a few weaks ago with you (you won't remember becasue it seems you have these 'discussions' quite often) and seen alot of your posts, not becasue I look out for you but becasue I see a very narrow minded person who disregards anyone elses opinion other than his own and trys to shot them down. And I see there is a common factor with these posts. The common factor being you!

Learn to be more respectable of other posters and stop your bullying tactics please.

Practise what you preach! Having had a discussion in a thread a few weaks ago with you (you won't remember becasue it seems you have these 'discussions' quite often) and seen alot of your posts, not becasue I look out for you but becasue I see a very narrow minded person who disregards anyone elses opinion other than his own and trys to shot them down. And I see there is a common factor with these posts. The common factor being you!

Learn to be more respectable of other posters and stop your bullying tactics please.

This is spot on

Genie Scout is made by someone that isn't affiliated to SI, therefore, his knowledge is based only on opinions and experience

Matthew is a researcher... these researchers are the people who are in charge of ensuring the right information is in the database, therefore their knowledge is based on what SI have told them

I will take a word of a researcher over the word of a someone who doesn't know the internals

I've known about the "free attributes" and "attribute weights" for as long as they've been in the game, just couldn't remember which ones had what weighting (and yes, the exact weighting changes with each version)

Hence why I asked for the list, so thank you Proteus

Oh, and Vangelis21, believe what you will, but as I said, you are being told a fact by someone who knows the internal numbers quite well, so please believe his words have some truth in them

Out of curiosity, are PPMs still weightless (they did used to be, didn't they)?

Just wanted to point out that attributes free from CA weighting do not increase or decrease based on CA, cannot be trained and are for the most part completely static and unchanging, unless the player is Mentored or fined etc.

didn't i pointed out the genie scout proof? genie scout will clearly show which attributes go up and which don't in a player. case closed for me. i cannot discuss with people that don't see beyond their point of view. so there is no discussion for me, so case closed for me. you can keep it open as much as you want and have fun talking! bye!

Have a think lad. You are making yourself look stupid.