Cost - Ipod Touch

Just wondering how you came up with the price of £7. I am in love with the pc version and I am currently involved in the FML beta but seriously, £7 for the game on an ipod. Champ man and the other footy sim on the ipod are only around £3. In my opinion £7 is way too high for this game. GTA is a £40 game on every other platform than the ipod and on the touch is was like a fiver. If you decreased this to under a fiver I would get this game without a second thought, I just can't bring myselfto bring £7 sorry.

Basically the question here is how did SI comeup with the price of £7?

it not £7 its £6.99

Still well worth the price if you ask me, especially as it seems to be more than twice the game compared to those App Store contenders.

As this game is pretty close to the PSP version and the PSP version sells for £15 to £25 (depends on where you get it). I think this is excellent value !!

This game is pretty much the PSP version with a few minor differences. The PSP game sells for £15+ so £7 is a bargain.

Also, you say £5 and under and you would buy it, it's only £2 extra

I understand that not everyone has the disposable income to drop £7 anytime they like, so I honestly don't mean to sound glib or to offend.

But.

£7 is the cost of two pints (where I live), or two overpriced sandwiches from a high street chain. It's less than the price of a CD, or a paperback. It's just over an hour's worth of money on the adult minimum wage.

If £7 is really that much to someone — and I'm sure there are many people to whom it really is a serious amount of money — then they shouldn't be wasting their money on an iPhone or iPod Touch in the first place.

Just wondering how you came up with the price of £7. I am in love with the pc version and I am currently involved in the FML beta but seriously, £7 for the game on an ipod. Champ man and the other footy sim on the ipod are only around £3. In my opinion £7 is way too high for this game. GTA is a £40 game on every other platform than the ipod and on the touch is was like a fiver. If you decreased this to under a fiver I would get this game without a second thought, I just can't bring myselfto bring £7 sorry.

Basically the question here is how did SI comeup with the price of £7?

GTA on the iphone is nowhere near the scale of the £40 game. As has been mentioned this is virtually the same game as the PSP version at less than half the price, that my friend is unbelievable value and its worth every one of those extra 200 pence.

Yeah I'm on a students budget hence being a tight arse on squeezing out that extra £2. But guys I was only asking how they came up with the price and I thank Marc for suppling me with that price of information. Pints are £1.40 for students here so a tad more than 2 pints. Also I have an iPod as it was a leaving present off the old folks. What's the game like compared to the pc version then if I'm going to have to fork out £7?

Cut down, as you'd expect. Basic training, very basic tactics (preset formations and team instructions; no player instructions or customised formations), basic scouting and player searching (search by position, value, scout ratings, etc, but no searching by attributes or sorting), simple text commentary and buggy 2D match engine for key moments.

In other words, if you want FM on a phone, this isn't it; if you want a simple, quick to play game to occupy bus journeys and breaks, this is perfect. I actually like how it's been cut down (except for the lack of more detailed tactical options and attribute searching, those are the only things that I would like to see added) and am more than happy with the old CM-style text commentary.

And PS I'm very jealous of £1.40 pints.

£6.99 seemed fair to me for what it is.

As this game is pretty close to the PSP version and the PSP version sells for £15 to £25 (depends on where you get it). I think this is excellent value !!

Exactly! Champ Manager on iPhone is essentially the old Java based mobile phone game and the others aren't much better. FM on iPhone is really an adapted console game.

Best 7 pounds I have spent on iTunes App store so far.

I can't comment on the iPhone version of CM as I pretty much gave up on CM the day SI split from Eidos (and rightly so for the odd things I have tried). So even at the lower price point I don't want to bother trying it.

But the iPhone version of FMH for me is worth every penny. I bought it the morning it came out and I have been playing it at every possible opportunity since. If you have any interest in previous games in the series then you will enjoy this game. Especially if, like some of my friends, you don't have the time or patients to play the latest PC version with its impressive/daunting range of options!

It's not perfect (there's a few bugs that need ironing out, a few user interface tweaks needed in places and some features that would be good to have) but it's a good start. Plus, as you can read for yourself on these forums, the developer of the game has welcomed suggestions and promised to update the game as soon as possible with bug fixes, tweaks and additions. You don't/can't get that kind of service with most other games/platforms.

I would warn you not to try to compare it to the PC/Mac version of the game. This is Football Manager Handheld and therefore is comparable to the PSP version minus a few minor details, which itself is a cut down version of the PC version. This is for technical reasons but also because handheld games by their nature are designed to be picked up and played in short bursts. 20 minutes on the bus, 5 mins on the toilet, etc. Obviously the PC version is much more indepth and takes much more time to enjoy fully.

Obvious only you can decide if you think £6.99 is a fair price and if you can afford it or justify it above other things you need / want to buy. But considering it's a pretty close version of a ~£25 PSP game and that comparable PSP/DS iPhone ports are a similar price (GTA, £5.99 / Final Fantasy £5.49) I think it's priced about right. Especially as the ~£1 extra can be put down to licensing costs.

And finally this is coming from somebody who doesn't have many apps > £0.59

I think £7 is a very good price for this game. Big named iPhone games come with this price, so SI cann't overprice it. It's a good price comparing to PSP FMH. And Marc has to feed his children

Just for curiosity: £7 is equal to 10 bucks. But in Europe the games is 10 euros, not 8 euros, like other games. Why?

I think £7 is a very good price for this game. Big named iPhone games come with this price, so SI cann't overprice it. It's a good price comparing to PSP FMH. And Marc has to feed his children

Just for curiosity: £7 is equal to 10 bucks. But in Europe the games is 10 euros, not 8 euros, like other games. Why?

Maybe it's due to exchange rates, tax or maybe a difference in how Apple charges in different regions.

remember apple take 20% i think, then if you're not american they take 10% conversation rate. its at least 20% in the uk anyway. worth every penny.

I can't comment on the iPhone version of CM as I pretty much gave up on CM the day SI split from Eidos (and rightly so for the odd things I have tried). So even at the lower price point I don't want to bother trying it.

But the iPhone version of FMH for me is worth every penny. I bought it the morning it came out and I have been playing it at every possible opportunity since. If you have any interest in previous games in the series then you will enjoy this game. Especially if, like some of my friends, you don't have the time or patients to play the latest PC version with its impressive/daunting range of options!

It's not perfect (there's a few bugs that need ironing out, a few user interface tweaks needed in places and some features that would be good to have) but it's a good start. Plus, as you can read for yourself on these forums, the developer of the game has welcomed suggestions and promised to update the game as soon as possible with bug fixes, tweaks and additions. You don't/can't get that kind of service with most other games/platforms.

I would warn you not to try to compare it to the PC/Mac version of the game. This is Football Manager Handheld and therefore is comparable to the PSP version minus a few minor details, which itself is a cut down version of the PC version. This is for technical reasons but also because handheld games by their nature are designed to be picked up and played in short bursts. 20 minutes on the bus, 5 mins on the toilet, etc. Obviously the PC version is much more indepth and takes much more time to enjoy fully.

Obvious only you can decide if you think £6.99 is a fair price and if you can afford it or justify it above other things you need / want to buy. But considering it's a pretty close version of a ~£25 PSP game and that comparable PSP/DS iPhone ports are a similar price (GTA, £5.99 / Final Fantasy £5.49) I think it's priced about right. Especially as the ~£1 extra can be put down to licensing costs.

And finally this is coming from somebody who doesn't have many apps > £0.59

Top post Keify!

I'm sorry that you feel that way - while I'm only a developer and I didn't get directly involved in setting the price I personally think its very good value for the game.

While I'm not arguing whether or not GBP £7 is a good price for the game, I'm rightly (and Royally) ****ed off that it costs €10 in Ireland, presumably the same in €urope. The current excahnge rate between £ and € is approx £1 to €1.15 but the €10 price charged here means that you guys, or Apple, have applied a rate of £1 to €1.42

If it isn't SEGA or SI, then Apple are screwing everyone over. That alone will probably make me not buy it, even though I have bought every FM since early CM days. I'll probably just get it 'elsewhere'...

Regards

Ron

I think it's fairly priced, £6.99 for the best football management sim on the go! Seems great to me.

I can understand why some are annoyed if they're buying in Ireland though, with the exchange rates but that's not anyones fault really.

I can understand why some are annoyed if they're buying in Ireland though, with the exchange rates but that's not anyones fault really.

Actually, it is someone's fault. The exchange rathe should set the price to €7.99 (for £6.99) but Apple want €9.99 - that's a whole €2 (or about 25%) extra for nothing

All non-US SKU's are at the same 'fixed price' with regards to sales

Marc, that is, to be honest, tripe. Look, I'm not looking for an argument as I know this is not your fault and I am a huge fan of the game. I'm more annoyed about the rip off. Your trying to defend it (which happened when the FM2010 direct download was released) is insulting. As I posted when FM2010 came out, we - in Ireland - were charged ridiculously inflated prices. In the case of FM2010 we were charged much more than the exchange rate (about €15 more than the proper exchange rate, IIRC), and that was for a direct download with the exact same cost to supply any purchaser in the world.

In this case, SI blame Apple and in the FM2010 case they also blamed the supplier. However, I know enough about product licensing to know that SI can, if they wish, define a selling price that is fair and consistent.

any differences are down to the exchange rates applied, tbh I'm not amazingly surprised if they differ from real-life exchanges a bit as the exchange rates between currencies has been somewhat volitile in the least couple of years and probably aren't updated that often by apple.

The exchange rate between the € and £ has not hit 1.42 since... well, probably December 2007. That's around two and a half years ago. Apple is not *that* slow... ;-)

It's more, shall we say, 'disemmination'? Apple's exchange rate for music and other Apps is not 20% above the actual exchange rate. It's profiteering, pure and simple. If it is Apple's profiteering then I will, as I said, skip this one. If it's SI profiteering, that's seriously annoying. Not only is it annoying but there isn't even a demo version to see if it is worth the extra 25% on top of the 15% exchange rate that actually exists. Since I won't be buying it, and there are probably lots like me, SI and Apple will both lose out.

The game is an adapted version of the FMH PSP game which retails at 29.99 in the UK, as such I think its incredibly good value for money - especially when you bear in mind that there are licencing costs involved in releasing the game (player & team names, badges etc.).

Thats not the issue. I'm not disagreeing with it's worth I have no idea whether it's worth £6.99 or not. What I am saying is that if it costs £6.99 in the UK, why does it cost that, plus the exchange rate of 15%, plus another 25%, outside the UK? Surely, you can't suggest it is worth more to us that to UK residents? Also, if you're selling it based on worth, then 'worth' should be decided by the customer after trying it out, no....?

Also, the PSP version can be bought MUCH cheaper than it's 'retail' price.

Finally, on the actual point I raised, the licensing cost is not any higher for copies sold in Ireland or €urope than it is in the UK, right? So the sales cost should be the same, plus the actual exchange rate. SI could easily have insisted on that as part of it's licensing deal with Apple.

I note that FM is already the top grossing App on the App Store. The sheer number of people likely to buy it will have persuaded Apple to bump up the price. Again, developer or not, SI could easily have stopped that and didn't.

After all, who are we... just the customers... ;-P

Regards

Ron

its great value and look at how many minutes you've probably lost to it already

the champ manager game is absolutely horrible...within 2 months of playing that game, exeter had sacked tisdale and appointed gerard houllier...2 months after that houllier was sacked and replaced by didier deschamps

laughable and shambolic game

Top post Keify!

Cheers! I just tried to give an honest opinion of the game and what to expect from this version. Hopefully from that people can make their own mind up!

The exchange rate between the € and £ has not hit 1.42 since... well, probably December 2007. That's around two and a half years ago. Apple is not *that* slow... ;-)

I think the exchange rate is from US Dollars to Euro rather than UK Pound to Euro as it is Apple you are buying from, not SI / Sega. Although I think the game is listed as being sold by Sega of America as well. So I think it's whatever price it is on the US App store converted to Euros rather than the UK App store. Although saying that, you wouldn't think it would be that much of a difference either way

In fact I've just done a quick check on google which shows the following using the current rates:

£6.99 = €8.01451318

£6.99 = $10.77858

$10.77858 = €8.02634597

So not really any difference at the current rates! So I guess it depends on if they charge anything for doing the currency exchange.

Also, the PSP version can be bought MUCH cheaper than it's 'retail' price.

True but I think you'd struggle to get it much cheaper than £15 which is still more than twice the price. Plus having it on my iPhone means it's always in my pocket no matter where I go

I know it's a pain having to pay slightly more (especially when it's up to 25% of the price) and I admire you taking a stand against this, but if you are a fan of the game then I think you might be cutting your nose off to spite your face for the sake of a euro or two in this case.

Pricing is an interesting element of the App store and I'm looking into how exactly it worked on this (having had nothing to do with it on this release - different dept within SEGA).

My understanding is that;

- You choose a band - as Marc suggested - that is appropriate for the price you wish to charge. So if we select the £6.99 price point the product "bands" out across the various stores at a specific price tied to that.

- If you wish to adjust the price locally then you're required to build a separate version of the code - which takes a significant amount of development time / makes updates more challenging / increases costs etc. So that's a factor also.

I'm trying to find out if there's more to it than this. I will return!

Finally - I'm not necessarily saying that we've got it right in this instance and we'll obviously analyse our results - we've not done this before - so the feedback is valued. However - lets not personalise it, please - accusations of tripe etc aren't really necessary.

Cheers

Matt

No it isn't 'tripe' - if you look into iStore pricing its done in price 'tiers' which then translate automatically across the world into different price points.

We are using the same 'price tier' for all versions apart from the US, the translations between any individual countries involved isn't something which was setup by SI but is instead automatically handled by the store.

ok, Marc. Two things and then we'll leave it

First, you initially said it was an exchange rate issue. I was pointing out that this was an improbable likelihood: using Dec 07 exchange rates. However, now you say it is actually because Apple set the 'tier' differently. Ok, that's a whole different issue

Second, since you have the same price tier used for everywhere but the US is different, then I assume SI could have also applied a different 'tier' for the Eurozone? Actually, that's what I said earlier: SI could have set prices in the arrangement/license to allow Apple to distribute, but for whatever reason they decided not to.

I wonder, though, if SI gets a flat rate per download (meaning Apple are ripping you off) or if you get a percentage of the sale price (which means you're ripping off Eurozone customers)

...and no, I won't be buying it because in the absence of a demo, I have no idea if it's worth a tenner. I wonder if UK downloads would have been less if it was priced at 25% higher...

Regards

Ron

Cheers! I just tried to give an honest opinion of the game and what to expect from this version. Hopefully from that people can make their own mind up!

I think the exchange rate is from US Dollars to Euro rather than UK Pound to Euro as it is Apple you are buying from, not SI / Sega. Although I think the game is listed as being sold by Sega of America as well. So I think it's whatever price it is on the US App store converted to Euros rather than the UK App store. Although saying that, you wouldn't think it would be that much of a difference either way

In fact I've just done a quick check on google which shows the following using the current rates:

£6.99 = €8.01451318

£6.99 = $10.77858

$10.77858 = €8.02634597

So not really any difference at the current rates! So I guess it depends on if they charge anything for doing the currency exchange.

True but I think you'd struggle to get it much cheaper than £15 which is still more than twice the price. Plus having it on my iPhone means it's always in my pocket no matter where I go

I know it's a pain having to pay slightly more (especially when it's up to 25% of the price) and I admire you taking a stand against this, but if you are a fan of the game then I think you might be cutting your nose off to spite your face for the sake of a euro or two in this case.

Hi

thanks for the follow up. I take your points in mind.

With regard to the PSP retail price: these retail prices are always 'recommended' and since the recommended retail price if FMH in the email that SI sent me was £6.99, then I'd expect to pay that or less. Not 25% more. SI put the US market in a different price 'tier' than the Eurozone and UK. That means they *could* have done the same for the Eurozone. That's the choice of any business but it can cost customers. In this case ithas. Maybe only one, but probably hundreds, maybe thousands. Who knows?

As for me missing out on having FMH in my pocket...? Thatmight be a good thing ;-)

otherwise my PhD research would take a hit due to my inability to extend the number of hours in a day

finally, as for the value of the game, I don't actually think the PSP version is all that good and, in the absence of a demo for the iPhone ihave to assume it's the same or more limited. In that case, while I might justify €8 or so (the exchange-rate price) and I might even justify a tenner, I take offence at paying a tenner when everyone in the UK is paying 25% less and in the US (which SI set into a different 'tier' so as to increase buyers) is paying $10 - the same as UK customers.

As a side issue, the same thing happened when FM2010 direct download was released. UK customers got it for about £10-15 less than we did. At that time SI said it was the suppliers fault. Sounds familiar. And there was no Apple tiering scheme to blame then...

As it happens, i may well end up with the game, but If I do, I have no intention of paying 25% more for it than it can be bought for by UK customers.

Ron

Pricing is an interesting element of the App store and I'm looking into how exactly it worked on this (having had nothing to do with it on this release - different dept within SEGA).

My understanding is that;

- You choose a band - as Marc suggested - that is appropriate for the price you wish to charge. So if we select the £6.99 price point the product "bands" out across the various stores at a specific price tied to that.

- If you wish to adjust the price locally then you're required to build a separate version of the code - which takes a significant amount of development time / makes updates more challenging / increases costs etc. So that's a factor also.

I'm trying to find out if there's more to it than this. I will return!

Finally - I'm not necessarily saying that we've got it right in this instance and we'll obviously analyse our results - we've not done this before - so the feedback is valued. However - lets not personalise it, please - accusations of tripe etc aren't really necessary.

Cheers

Matt

Thanks matt

apologies to Marc if you thought I was being personal. I wasn't. I was saying that the idea that apple might have applied a Dec 07 exchange rate was tripe.

The price comparison done above indicates that UK and US customers are paying €8 or so. Eurozone customers are paying 25% more. Since SI/Sega set a different price tier or price point for the US, it *could* have done the same for the Eurozone. I assume there was some actual *reason* for the added development cost for multi-tiered version being set up for the US?

True, it's only €2, but it's the same thing you did when the direct download was released and it was much, much, much more than €2 then

Ron