Why are newgen GK's a lot shorter than the original DB GK's :(

I'm in my 3rd season, with the biggest 5 leagues in Europe in full detail. I can find only 1 newgen GK in the game who is taller than 190cm. Almost all of them are between 180-190, and most of them in 180-185 brackett. I know it's a small thing, nevertheless it is annoying. If you look at real players, more than 50% of GK's are taller than 190cm.

any proof please? i have signed two regen GK in last season and they are both 1.86. pretty close to what you say but still. we would like to see some ss!

Proof? Before asking for proof why can people not think first "why would somebody make up something like this?". I've spent ca 30min to click on every team's roster to check on their GKs' height and I'm sharing here what I've seen. I'm not going to add the ss's of every team's roster here. You can click on the teams in your game and see the situation for yourself, I don't think it will be very different than mine. So no, I'm not going to provide any proof, sorry. You can assume I'm lying...

Yeah but if its a serious problem and needs fixing people will need proof, some people might actually make things like that up, its a perfectly reasonable request.

Have you seen year 7 kids these days? They're getting shorter and shorter; at least they were when I left school.

Theres your answer

So no, I'm not going to provide any proof, sorry. You can assume I'm lying...

Anyway, in search you can filter on heigth. I'm in 2022, so when I filter on players < 29yo and > 190 then I must all have regens.

I found 133 keepers in my game that are regens and 190cm+.

And 5630 regens (all positions) that are 190cm+

What does look a bit weird is that there are none that reach 200cm.

I have an issue which is similar and have been puzzling me for some time. Its not really only the size of the goalkeepers, its more (as I have experienced it), the fact most GOOD goalkeepers are hardly above 1,85m. I just did a check in my longest played remaining game (2033), and, theres in 5 uploaded leagues (europes major, biggest DB), only 2 international top goalkeepers above 1,85. Theres plenty of riff-raff, and decent ones. Then again, another thing that I find interesting, goalkeeping stats; The small goalkeepers (and I checked this as well) seem to be better in "aerial ability", than the taller ones (I will not defne this as a fact, its just from my search on one saved game), which would be weird. Nevertheless, Ive also found goalkeepers to peak in a weird way. Ive often seen good regen goalkeepers, that never really get much better when theyre 30 than when they were 16 (this will also be no less than a hypothese, but I just decided Im gonna check this). Personally, with the best youth squad setup, which elseway produce great regens after around 5-6 years, the goalkeepers Ive gotten, that Ive kept, have always been capped at youth-level, but from the age of 20, hardly get much better. Especially mental stats seems hard to increase (altough I always make sure to have some former world class keepers in the squad to tutor them)

Does height really matter that much?

I just base players on their attributes...

Length isn't used in the ME, so no. Length does reflect in some attributes like jumping/heading, ...

Don't worry about that guy asking for proof,it seems to be his catchphrase with everyone lately.

As for your question,i havn't really noticed this myself tbh.

Don't worry about that guy asking for proof,it seems to be his catchphrase with everyone lately.

Soon it will be 'Proof?' and the live crowd will laugh just like a sitcom.

Anyway, my regens are always stupidly tall, had a left winger that was 196cm. 17 pace as well, I thought that was pretty quick for a big fellow.

Anyway, in search you can filter on heigth. I'm in 2022, so when I filter on players < 29yo and > 190 then I must all have regens.

I found 133 keepers in my game that are regens and 190cm+.

And 5630 regens (all positions) that are 190cm+

What does look a bit weird is that there are none that reach 200cm.

You're saying that you have 5630 newgens who are taller than 190, and only 133 of them are GK's. That's what I'm talking about.

Another thing is that among those GK's, the best one are most of the time the shorter ones. In 3 years game time I have yet to see a GK who is taller than 185 and has 3 or more stars for PA. All the good ones are between 178 and 185.

Again, not a deal breaker, but certainly annoying because it is not realistic.

Knowing fully about the issues with jumping in defensive regens it wouldnt surprise me if this lack of height was true, rather than an unfortunate coincidence in your game alone.

That said, height isnt a factor in the ME, only jumping is, so that is the stat you should look for.

As an extension to this, I don't think I've ever seen a regen taller than 6"6 (198 cm?). Obviously, there shouldn't be bundles of them running (bumbling) around, but they obviously should exist, especially now as people are growing much taller than they ever have before.

Oddly enough you can't search for height in the editor! I don't have a large enough game (not enough leagues loaded) to make a comparison using, say, Genie Scout.

You can filter height ingame.

And I have to confirm Scott's observation, the tallest regen I have seen is 198cm.

Using the in game search of my game currently in 2013, I found 997 U16s at 190cm or greater (about 8% of all U16s), of which 16 are GKs. My game had about 160000 players at the start.

So yes, tallness does seem to favor outfield players.

190cm is pretty tall, according to a height chart I saw, it's the 95 percentile for white males in the U.S, age 25.

I think the max height in the game is 198cm, because the filter doesn't go above that.

Using the in game search of my game currently in 2013, I found 997 U16s at 190cm or greater (about 8% of all U16s), of which 16 are GKs. My game had about 160000 players at the start.

Remember that your search is limited by your scouting knowledge. So the number of 16000 here is irrelevant.

Obviously, there shouldn't be bundles of them running (bumbling) around, but they obviously should exist, especially now as people are growing much taller than they ever have before.

FM doesn't take into account that people are getting taller. It doesn't even bother with some thing as important as inflation in long term games so why bother with people getting taller? Especially as height is fairly cosmetic in the game.

I tried to search my career game but Genie Scout doesn't let you filter by height or weight.

FM doesn't take into account that people are getting taller. It doesn't even bother with some thing as important as inflation in long term games so why bother with people getting taller? Especially as height is fairly cosmetic in the game.

I tried to search my career game but Genie Scout doesn't let you filter by height or weight.

Ok Fine, but look at today. I can think of quite a few players that are taller than 198 cm (Zigic, Maierhofer, Crouch, Jan Koller, Kalac), and those are just the well-known ones. You will NEVER have a future Koller or Crouch because the regens don't get tall enough. Obviously, I don't want a plethora of 7-foot regens, because that's ridiculous, but they should make it so something like .5% of regens are between 6"6 and 6"10.

Well so far with very limited scouting knowledge of mainly the UK there have been 45 regens who are 198cm tall. Total number of regens is 42761, so that means at least 0.1% of the regens are 198cm.

The point still stands that height is fairly unimportant in the game. I don't even look at height when buying a player.

Height is implemented in the 'jumping' attribute. So it is NOT totally irrelevant. 'Jumping' attribute is actually [players height + his jumping]. So, you will never see a guy taller than 190cm who has 1-10 for jumping. Most of them will be in the range of 13-17.

So, when we get back to goalkeepers: If jumping attribute is important for gk's (which I believe is), since tall gk's are so rare in the game that means we won't have many gk's who have 15+ jumping, so we will have to rely on their other attributes.

Imagine that all the newgen midfielders were shorter than 180cm. It would be a little annoying, right? So, almost all the newgen gk's being shorter than 190cm is equally annoying to me. Unfortunately GK stats are a little ignored by SI. Even in the rating system they didn't pay attention on the GK ratings. Look at your division's players with top average ratings. You will never see a GK in the top 20-30. Most of the time the top GK finishes the season barely with 7.00, which is only good enough for 60th-70th spot on that list.

I know these are not real deal breakers. I'm just trying to share something that has been annoying me for some time.

What I'm going to say is a very 'loose' statement but as a generalisation and it is a big generalisation but in the past FM's - I cannot comment on FM2010 becasue I have not got that far but the height of newgens has allways been a problem and hence newgens on the whole always did have a poor jumpring attribute in comparison to the original database, becasue it seemed they were pretty small. It seems the newgens still need a bit of work on them.

Nev147, actually all the other positions are ok in this version finally, but GK's are still short.

Nev147, actually all the other positions are ok in this version finally, but GK's are still short.

Ok cheers bleventozturk thats great to here.

Proof? Before asking for proof why can people not think first "why would somebody make up something like this?". I've spent ca 30min to click on every team's roster to check on their GKs' height and I'm sharing here what I've seen. I'm not going to add the ss's of every team's roster here. You can click on the teams in your game and see the situation for yourself, I don't think it will be very different than mine. So no, I'm not going to provide any proof, sorry. You can assume I'm lying...

You're asking him for proof when yours is only 2 players.

It's the sheer amount of CBs under 6ft that i find annoying. In real life football, it's very rare to find a CB under 6ft, on the game it's very rare to find one over!

Height is implemented in the 'jumping' attribute. So it is NOT totally irrelevant. 'Jumping' attribute is actually [players height + his jumping]. So, you will never see a guy taller than 190cm who has 1-10 for jumping. Most of them will be in the range of 13-17.

So, when we get back to goalkeepers: If jumping attribute is important for gk's (which I believe is), since tall gk's are so rare in the game that means we won't have many gk's who have 15+ jumping, so we will have to rely on their other attributes.

The jumping attribute isn't height + jumping. You can have a short guy with 20 jumping and he will jump to the same height as a tall guy with 20 jumping. A players height does put some sort of limit on his jumping stat when he is generated, but without looking at the code we can't tell what that is.

As for keepers in my current game there are 401 keepers with 15+ for jumping and almost all of them are over 183cm, or 6 feet tall. Jumping my have some effect on keepers, but remember that a keeper can use his hands so a 183cm keeper can still reach a higher ball then a 190cm player can head (unless his arms are only 7cm long which would make him a poor choice for a keeper ). That is most likely represented by the Aerial Ability attribute, and who knows exactly how Jumping and Aerial Ability interact?

It's the sheer amount of CBs under 6ft that i find annoying. In real life football, it's very rare to find a CB under 6ft, on the game it's very rare to find one over!

Yeah I second this - but as people have said this has been improved - I will judge for myself.

The OP is right. Regen keepers are on average shorter than real keepers in the game.

The jumping attribute isn't height + jumping. You can have a short guy with 20 jumping and he will jump to the same height as a tall guy with 20 jumping. A players height does put some sort of limit on his jumping stat when he is generated, but without looking at the code we can't tell what that is.

You are not saying anything different than what I said. A short guy with 20 jumping will reach the same height as a tall guy with 20 jumping, which means the height of the top of their head + their vertical jump = 20 (to whatever height that refers to), which means the jumping attribute is nothing but the addition of the player's height and his vertical jump. So yes, again, the jumping attribute is the height + real jumping.

The average goalkeeper height in centimeters does drop a bit in the long run but the jumping attribute levels (which reflect the player height) should still stay at the same levels as they are in the starting DB. So the issue about the goalkeeper average height in the long term is mostly cosmetic. Needless to say, we'll look to improve this as well in the future.

That's good to hear, Riz. At the end the jumping attribute is what really counts, and if that stays the same over the years, the rest is just cosmetic issue.

You are not saying anything different than what I said. A short guy with 20 jumping will reach the same height as a tall guy with 20 jumping, which means the height of the top of their head + their vertical jump = 20 (to whatever height that refers to), which means the jumping attribute is nothing but the addition of the player's height and his vertical jump. So yes, again, the jumping attribute is the height + real jumping.

Misunderstood your other post then.