Cracking/Re-Ranking

Assuming it's universally accepted this doesn't happen and all the AI can do is start playing more defensive against you, I can't explain the following.

Example 1

England National Team: I managed, after World Cup 2010 to take England on a 16 match unbeaten run (friendlies and qualifiers) beating France, Germany and Brazil in the process. I finish number 1 in world rankings, my 4-4-2 tactic is working brilliantly, all player positions are worked out using the pro-zone tool so shouldn't be any problems there. I've managed to keep complacency in check pretty well, team-talks are all based on a system that's proven. I use a control system so if the AI starts playing more defensive I should be able to cope. I enter Euro 2012 as outsider's which is strange given what's happened in previous 2 years, of course after being drawn in a poor group I lose every game to nil finish bottom and crash out. I've tried to analyse every game and all I can gather is, in every game I was totally outplayed and beaten by the better team. I can't explain this.

Example 2

A.C Milan: Again playing a control passing style and pro-zone for player positions and roles. All team-talks done to the same proven system, media handling the same. I start off the season well with a very defensively sound tactic, scoring on average 2 goals per game, usually to nil. Having beaten Juventus I expect my form to dip due to complacency but it doesn't. The season progresses until I get a nil-nil with Atalanta, nothing strange there, but it was the manner of the game that just didn't feel right, obviously every game since I've been hopeless and the players can't pass the ball 5 yards. Again I went back and analysed the games and the only pattern is the possession of the opposition has gone up, I put closing down up to no avail.

If all the AI can do to counter the human player is play more defensively I just don't see how that alone can explain what I've seen in these two games (sudden, total loss of ability to play football). To any tactical guru's, think of this as a challenge to come up with a reason I haven't heard before e.g:-

It's your tactics

The players are upset at something you said in the press

You clicked the wrong team-talk option....etc....etc...etc.

P.S This isn't a rant, I accept something, somewhere must be wrong so please don't respond with unconstructive or abusive comments.

Thank-you.

Assuming it's universally accepted this doesn't happen and all the AI can do is start playing more defensive against you, I can't explain the following.

Example 1

England National Team: I managed, after World Cup 2010 to take England on a 16 match unbeaten run (friendlies and qualifiers) beating France, Germany and Brazil in the process. I finish number 1 in world rankings, my 4-4-2 tactic is working brilliantly, all player positions are worked out using the pro-zone tool so shouldn't be any problems there. I've managed to keep complacency in check pretty well, team-talks are all based on a system that's proven. I use a control system so if the AI starts playing more defensive I should be able to cope. I enter Euro 2012 as outsider's which is strange given what's happened in previous 2 years, of course after being drawn in a poor group I lose every game to nil finish bottom and crash out. I've tried to analyse every game and all I can gather is, in every game I was totally outplayed and beaten by the better team. I can't explain this.

Example 2

A.C Milan: Again playing a control passing style and pro-zone for player positions and roles. All team-talks done to the same proven system, media handling the same. I start off the season well with a very defensively sound tactic, scoring on average 2 goals per game, usually to nil. Having beaten Juventus I expect my form to dip due to complacency but it doesn't. The season progresses until I get a nil-nil with Atalanta, nothing strange there, but it was the manner of the game that just didn't feel right, obviously every game since I've been hopeless and the players can't pass the ball 5 yards. Again I went back and analysed the games and the only pattern is the possession of the opposition has gone up, I put closing down up to no avail.

If all the AI can do to counter the human player is play more defensively I just don't see how that alone can explain what I've seen in these two games (sudden, total loss of ability to play football). To any tactical guru's, think of this as a challenge to come up with a reason I haven't heard before e.g:-

It's your tactics

The players are upset at something you said in the press

You clicked the wrong team-talk option....etc....etc...etc.

P.S This isn't a rant, I accept something, somewhere must be wrong so please don't respond with unconstructive or abusive comments.

Thank-you.

A few points.

1) The pro zone tool is not a guarantee of getting the players position right. One time I used it and it suggested I play Patrick Viera as a sweeper. Probably capable of it but not according to FM so that ain't going to happen.

2) Playing control is no guarantee of success against a defensive team. You may have to explore other options, use touchline shouts to alter other things. You haven't given enough info for me to advise which.

3) If anyone has 100% success guaranteed team talks and media handling solutions then please share them with everyone. Yes bubbaray and the wolf team talks are good but nothing is 100% guaranteed. Same goes for CPW.

4) In the Milan example you expect complacency? It didn't happen when you thought but it still happened.

5) Teams have bad runs, it happens. See the EPL this season for examples. All the top clubs have had poor runs of form at one time or another.

6) The AI doesn't learn your tactic.

2) Playing control is no guarantee of success against a defensive team. You may have to explore other options, use touchline shouts to alter other things. You haven't given enough info for me to advise which.

I'm trying to change as little as possible as I've been told(when I was in a rant) that many have been having success through a whole season changing almost nothing.

3) If anyone has 100% success guaranteed team talks and media handling solutions then please share them with everyone. Yes bubbaray and the wolf team talks are good but nothing is 100% guaranteed. Same goes for CPW.

5) Teams have bad runs, it happens. See the EPL this season for examples. All the top clubs have had poor runs of form at one time or another.

Most of the bad runs I've seen are permanent.

[6) The AI doesn't learn your tactic.

I'm trying to change as little as possible as I've been told(when I was in a rant) that many have been having success through a whole season changing almost nothing.

Not saying it's 100% but I do know it works more often than not.

Most of the bad runs I've seen are permanent.

I know.

You've got to find what works for you. Some people just find something that works and don't need to change, others tweak constantly. Leaving it alone clearly isn't working for you.

With the team talks, so you admit its not 100% guaranteed so surely you must accept that when things start going bad is one of those times they don't work.

Permanent? Exaggerate much? So those teams never won again and you were sacked?

You've got to find what works for you. Some people just find something that works and don't need to change, others tweak constantly. Leaving it alone clearly isn't working for you.

With the team talks, so you admit its not 100% guaranteed so surely you must accept that when things start going bad is one of those times they don't work.

Permanent? Exaggerate much? So those teams never won again and you were sacked?

I've tried the tweaking style as well, with the same huge losses of form.

The team talks thing. I wasn't trying to say they were infallable just that they were sound and I didn't think they could be an excuse for those particular cases.

Not always sacked, sometimes I resign.

With England it could be the players in the squad cannot handle the pressure of a major championship. In a game where I was ding very well with Barca on last years game I took over Portugal for the 2014 WC qualifiers, and won every one. But in the finals themselves Djalo the top qualifier scorer froze and my tactic kind of fell apart. The team got knocked out in the second round. Same thing happened in the next Euro Championships. So in international teams the players matter more, as you have less scope for changing.

With the AC Milan situation, it could have been easily the way you handled the team after the match. You can expect a good team to have a bad day, but if you treat the players too leniently or harrshly after the game (depending on how well they played and their psychology) it could have put your players into a tailspin of bad results. This here is a balancing act.

I have noticed this type of thing happening as well. Not sure what it is, but whatever it is the ME has a bad way of trying to show the issues with your team.

Players missing basic passes, standing still rather than going for the ball, not jumping for headers etc..

It is frustrating because you are being outplayed, but not due to the other team stepping up their game, but by your team losing the ability to play football.

AI isnt intelligent enough yet to be able to adapt as you described. It just follows rules.

First of all, I played with the same formation 4-4-1-1 for more than two seasons and I had a great success. AI does not learn how to counter your formation, but it learns how to counter other aspects of your tactics. For example, I started the game playing quick, a little wide, pushing up and normal passing. I was winning almost all games and when I drew, I was the better team with more chances. Later on, team started to play against me defensive counter and long passing, so just started playing a little narrower and deeper with short passing and again I was winning.

As for team talk, I am still unbeaten for 65 games in the league and it gets harder and harder to motivate them now. But in other comp. it is different. The bottom line is, the more you win the harder it gets to motivate your players and there is nothing you could do about it but losing.

Control is quite possibly the worst strategy to use against a side who are trying to shut you out. Unless you're much better and you have faith in the opposition making stupid mistakes under minimal pressure, or they've had a man sent off, or similar. Really, what you should probably be trying to do is play some decisive balls up to the top, and hurry them, which increases the chances of mistakes (even if those mistakes are poor marking or positioning).

To be honest you're probably best off starting a thread in the tactics forum if you want tactical help. You can't ask people for help but at the same time tell them that you don't want to be told that it's down to your tactics. As SCAIG has pointed out above, at least some of it will be down to your tactics.