PDA

View Full Version : Why is the game so easy?



ElJaffacakeo
30-03-2010, 14:32
I know this has probably been asked a while back, but im not searching through all these posts!

I am in year 2016, I have been the AC Milan manager, Italy manager and now im the Man United Manager. I build up the best team in Europe at Milan, used a narrow tactic and by the end of my rein I was destroying every team that came before me. I was beginning to get bored, so when the Italy job became available i took that up to give me another challenge while i remained the Milan manager. After winning the CL, Scudetto, Copa Italia and the relative super cups, i quit as the Milan manager to focus on the Italy position. Now, being an international manager is totally different, and I got kicked out of the UEFA Euro 2016 tournament by Russia in the first knockout round. But toward the end of 2015, i was approached to become the manager of Man united, which i took. The team i inherited was just awful. Their best player was a 30 year old Rooney, and with my tactics there was absolutely no depth to the squad. United were 12th when i got them, and seriously lagging behind the leaders. I made my target for the season 4th spot, choosing to focus on the league rather than CL. I subsequently went on a 20 match winning streak, and 24 game unbeaten streak. I was defeated twice in the entire season (league and CL) and won everything. The league, FA Cup (Man U were out of the league cup before i got there) and the CL. Very comfortably. I noticed though, that every single team in the game is utter crap. The manage that took over at Milan did not stop until he had completely dismantled that team, buying mediocre players, playing just about all of his players in stupid positions and eventually coming 7th in the league (my beloved Milan!!). So, why does the AI buy such terrible players?? In 09 i was fighting to keep Pato from Real, now they are buying players like Christof Berra and Harry Kewell!!! Im seriously hoping for a better challenge in FM11. hope the AI is sorted. Im thinking of going a lower league Italian team, starting from 09/10. But to be honest, the way things go as the game moves on, i would expect to win the Serie A by 2012. Ah well.

StevoRobbo
30-03-2010, 14:38
You complain its too easy and your managing AC Milan, Man Utd and Italy. You want to try managing in a lower league or with a team you know absolutely nothing about.

Also if you want people to read your 'rant', try using paragraphs. It makes it a lot easier to read.

ElJaffacakeo
30-03-2010, 14:42
For one, its not a rant. Its an observation. If was ranting, I would have stated that. Secondly, i stated that even if i go a lower league team, i expect to win the top division soon after. Its too easy to get make money and get a transfer kitty, and the AI hasnt a clue how to buy players. Read the entire article next time.

robzilla
30-03-2010, 14:44
I know this has probably been asked a while back, but im not searching through all these posts!

I am in year 2016, I have been the AC Milan manager, Italy manager and now im the Man United Manager. I build up the best team in Europe at Milan, used a narrow tactic and by the end of my rein I was destroying every team that came before me. I was beginning to get bored, so when the Italy job became available i took that up to give me another challenge while i remained the Milan manager. After winning the CL, Scudetto, Copa Italia and the relative super cups, i quit as the Milan manager to focus on the Italy position. Now, being an international manager is totally different, and I got kicked out of the UEFA Euro 2016 tournament by Russia in the first knockout round. But toward the end of 2015, i was approached to become the manager of Man united, which i took. The team i inherited was just awful. Their best player was a 30 year old Rooney, and with my tactics there was absolutely no depth to the squad. United were 12th when i got them, and seriously lagging behind the leaders. I made my target for the season 4th spot, choosing to focus on the league rather than CL. I subsequently went on a 20 match winning streak, and 24 game unbeaten streak. I was defeated twice in the entire season (league and CL) and won everything. The league, FA Cup (Man U were out of the league cup before i got there) and the CL. Very comfortably. I noticed though, that every single team in the game is utter crap. The manage that took over at Milan did not stop until he had completely dismantled that team, buying mediocre players, playing just about all of his players in stupid positions and eventually coming 7th in the league (my beloved Milan!!). So, why does the AI buy such terrible players?? In 09 i was fighting to keep Pato from Real, now they are buying players like Christof Berra and Harry Kewell!!! Im seriously hoping for a better challenge in FM11. hope the AI is sorted. Im thinking of going a lower league Italian team, starting from 09/10. But to be honest, the way things go as the game moves on, i would expect to win the Serie A by 2012. Ah well.

Most people will slate you for this being a thinly-veiled bragging thread but I have to say I agree with you to a large extent. I find that I can very easily get a team to the state where we are walking the league and winning cups like it's going out of fashion, which quickly gets boring. The only way to really combat this is to take over smaller and smaller teams where it will take longer to get to the top, but that's not really what I'm after.

I know it must be hard for the developers (hey, I'm a software engineer) to balance the game so that it is easy enough for people to do well and not get frustrated but still provide a good challenge once you are at the highest level.

I keep myself interested by setting myself goals, short term and long term. For example I'm currently in a game with the top two divisions of 10 European nations running and my aim is to take a team for each country that has never won league title (or at least not won it for 40-50 years at least) and [a] win the domestic league title, then [b] win a European trophy. Once acheived, I will move on to another team. Even this can get boring though as you are just repeating the same pattern again and again.

When I'm bored of this save I think I'll try managing in some far-flung corner of the globe where the league set up is different and there are different titles to win, etc. I've never really fancied international management, tried it a few times but found it so boring I resigned each time.

StevoRobbo
30-03-2010, 14:48
For one, its not a rant. Its an observation. If was ranting, I would have stated that. Secondly, i stated that even if i go a lower league team, i expect to win the top division soon after. Its too easy to get make money and get a transfer kitty, and the AI hasnt a clue how to buy players. Read the entire article next time.

Try structuring it properly then and maybe I could.

Try managing in the BSP or something. Or maybe even lower. I can assure you its a whole new ball game.

You say if you go to a lower team then you will win the top league soon after. Obviously your not going low enough. Taking over Newcastle is hardly a challenge.

If its too easy to make money and get a transfer kitty then start with a team with no money and no transfer kitty and maybe in debt. If you dont want to go too low try Crystal Palace.

jxd
30-03-2010, 14:49
Try playing a lower league team with fake players and not using editors to do your scouting.

ElJaffacakeo
30-03-2010, 14:49
Most people will slate you for this being a thinly-veiled bragging thread [...] I've never really fancied international management, tried it a few times but found it so boring I resigned each time.

Im certainly not bragging, thats not my thing. It took a couple of years to get the Milan squad that i had, but after that it was too easy. I found myself hoping i lost some games at Man U so that i could have challenge next season. They threw 100mil at me to sign players. I would expect to walk next season. I think my new challenge would be to pip SAF as the top manager in terms of competitions won, which im sure a few people on here have or are trying to do. And yes, being an international manager is boring, hence why i took the Man U job so that i had something to do when we werent playing.

NepentheZ
30-03-2010, 14:50
Noooo. The dreaded wall of text :(

In short :

tl;dr

However, from what I caught, you're managing world class sides, and complaining it's easy.! Try managing someone who isn't very good. ;)

looknohands
30-03-2010, 14:51
You could always try MLS, especially if you don't know the league's "unique" structure. It'll crush your soul.

robzilla
30-03-2010, 14:52
Im certainly not bragging, thats not my thing. It took a couple of years to get the Milan squad that i had, but after that it was too easy. I found myself hoping i lost some games at Man U so that i could have challenge next season. They threw 100mil at me to sign players. I would expect to walk next season. I think my new challenge would be to pip SAF as the top manager in terms of competitions won, which im sure a few people on here have or are trying to do. And yes, being an international manager is boring, hence why i took the Man U job so that i had something to do when we werent playing.

Of course the only other replies you'll get are those saying "take over a BSS/BSN club then" but that is to miss the point. I want to play at the top level but I want a challenge too, and it should be possible to have that. At the moment it isn't really.

ElJaffacakeo
30-03-2010, 14:53
Of course the only other replies you'll get are those saying "take over a BSS/BSN club then" but that is to miss the point. I want to play at the top level but I want a challenge too, and it should be possible to have that. At the moment it isn't really.

Exactly. Thats what im after. Alot of people seem to be missing that.

Gizmo7
30-03-2010, 14:53
Try managing in the BSP or something. Or maybe even lower. I can assure you its a whole new ball game.


I agree with this - Give lower league managing a shot. :thup:

AcidBurn
30-03-2010, 14:54
I got to agree with the majority you are complaining about it being easy with 2 of the best teams on the game. If you want a challenge try and win the Champions League with a team from Wales or manage a team in the BSN/BSN even try playing the level 11 England mod.

The game is as difficult as you make it based on the team you pick.

StevoRobbo
30-03-2010, 14:54
You could always try MLS, especially if you don't know the league's "unique" structure. It'll crush your soul.

I tried the MLS ONCE! Completely did my head in. Never again :D

Rutto
30-03-2010, 15:01
If you think the game is too easy it's up to you to increase the difficult by:
- Selecting the worst team form a minor division
- Set random player names, so you won't be able to hire your usual cheap stars

robzilla
30-03-2010, 15:01
I got to agree with the majority you are complaining about it being easy with 2 of the best teams on the game. If you want a challenge try and win the Champions League with a team from Wales or manage a team in the BSN/BSN even try playing the level 11 England mod.

The game is as difficult as you make it based on the team you pick.

But it should not be like that. The point is this: I could take any EPL club and within 5 years win the EPL. OK so I'm brilliant, whatever. The point is that once you've got to your team to this point it is too easy to just keep winning and winning and winning. I won the league 11 years on the trot with Spurs and the gap between me and the second place team got bigger and bigger every year. The AI just just can't challenge you.

The OP and I (and I can't believe there are not more players out there who feel the same) want to manage at the top level but still be challenged by the AI.

gooner83
30-03-2010, 15:03
Im certainly not bragging, thats not my thing. It took a couple of years to get the Milan squad that i had, but after that it was too easy. I found myself hoping i lost some games at Man U so that i could have challenge next season. They threw 100mil at me to sign players. I would expect to walk next season. I think my new challenge would be to pip SAF as the top manager in terms of competitions won, which im sure a few people on here have or are trying to do. And yes, being an international manager is boring, hence why i took the Man U job so that i had something to do when we werent playing.

You say the are throwing 100 million at you so why not just leave it in the kitty and not spend anything. Maybe if its boring do something that Ferguson and Wenger have had to do and rebuild a squad. Sell off some of your better players and rebuild from there. May not be so straight forward then and maybe more enjoyable. Set a personal challenge for youself like maybe having a certain average squad age at under 23 or something.

gooner83
30-03-2010, 15:04
But it should not be like that. The point is this: I could take any EPL club and within 5 years win the EPL. OK so I'm brilliant, whatever. The point is that once you've got to your team to this point it is too easy to just keep winning and winning and winning. I won the league 11 years on the trot with Spurs and the gap between me and the second place team got bigger and bigger every year. The AI just just can't challenge you.

The OP and I (and I can't believe there are not more players out there who feel the same) want to manage at the top level but still be challenged by the AI.

Please win Prem with Portsmouth or Wolves within 5 years ;)

StevoRobbo
30-03-2010, 15:04
But it should not be like that. The point is this: I could take any EPL club and within 5 years win the EPL. OK so I'm brilliant, whatever. The point is that once you've got to your team to this point it is too easy to just keep winning and winning and winning. I won the league 11 years on the trot with Spurs and the gap between me and the second place team got bigger and bigger every year. The AI just just can't challenge you.

The OP and I (and I can't believe there are not more players out there who feel the same) want to manage at the top level but still be challenged by the AI.

are you using GenieScout to scout your players? Do you use a narrow formation all the time which you know exploits the ME? Try playing with wingers and still winning games.

robzilla
30-03-2010, 15:05
Please win Prem with Portsmouth or Wolves within 5 years ;)

OK maybe not Pompey :D But Wolves yes it could be easily done.

ElJaffacakeo
30-03-2010, 15:05
The OP and I (and I can't believe there are not more players out there who feel the same) want to manage at the top level but still be challenged by the AI.

Yep. In FM08 and 09, Inter were indestructible, as were Juventus. Roma were damn good too. My flatmate always complained that it was impossible to win the EPL. I want to manage the biggest teams, but i dont want it to be a walk in the park. Most people as saying that i should manage BSS, or BSN. I dont want to. Whats wrong with that??

grasu
30-03-2010, 15:06
The reactions that the TC is getting from some users are just ludicrous! If people come on here to complain that either the game is too easy, or to hard, the answers are never to the point and even lead to insults in the long run. If you're wondering why a team can go from a winning streak of 25 games to losing 4-0 against the bottom of the league you'll get slammed with a "that's life get used to it... <add insulting epithet here>" and if someone complains that the game is too easy it's "bragging" or "try a lower league team" or "what do you expect you're playing as <insert superteam x here>".

Personally I agree with the OT. For most players who want to play with top level teams dominating their respective national leagues in FM2010 is way too easy due to shoddy AI. What the opposing AI managers do sometimes borders on ludicrous. How many times in real life, have teams with no financial problems, sold their best players for huge amounts of money and failed to sign up A SINGLE PLAYER in return? Quite frankly I can't think of one example of such a situation in recent memory while in FM this happens all the time. I bought David Villa from Valencia in a game as Liverpool and for the 50 million euros they were given in return they bought NOTHING! Not even youth, simply NOTHING! Now I do realize Valencia have some financial difficulties but selling players worth 150 million a season to buy NOTHING in return (the Spanish division was active BTW) is a tad strange.

looknohands
30-03-2010, 15:06
are you using GenieScout to scout your players? Do you use a narrow formation all the time which you know exploits the ME? Try playing with wingers and still winning games.

Narrow formation?

robzilla
30-03-2010, 15:07
are you using GenieScout to scout your players? Do you use a narrow formation all the time which you know exploits the ME? Try playing with wingers and still winning games.

Please. I have never used Genie Scout, FMRTE or anything else like it. The formation I favour happens to not use wingers, but it is not narrow. I am not aware that this exploits the ME?

ElJaffacakeo
30-03-2010, 15:07
are you using GenieScout to scout your players? Do you use a narrow formation all the time which you know exploits the ME? Try playing with wingers and still winning games.

No i dont use GS. I do use a narrow formation, i always have. I did not know that that exploited the ME however. This is what im talking about, if there is a way to exploit the ME, surely this should be fixed?

speople
30-03-2010, 15:08
Getting back to the OP

I would say that even managing at lower leagues is v easy too. Quite easy to pick up players who are probably tier 5 when in tier 7, tho it takes a while to shop around for them. That bing said, i have seen a lower league team unbeaten in 18 games from start of season 15wins 3 draws till they played me. So although easyish (the game) the AI can and sometimes does, keep a team right up there with you.

bugabugas
30-03-2010, 15:10
Its not as easy as you picture it to be. YOu are probably using a super tactic or something. Im having a s**t managing my Valencia team, as you might have see in a thread i made today. I signed some good players and my team is struggling to even beat the likes of Real Valladolid.

On the other hand, in my Fenerbahce and Zenit St P. saves, i turned them both into world forces within 4 and 5 seasons respectivly, not what you'd expect for these sort of teams.

But again, if there was a 'harder' AI option like in the new patches of CM 01/02, you will be killing your self for a win. Seriously, try it.

redmark
30-03-2010, 15:10
Of course the only other replies you'll get are those saying "take over a BSS/BSN club then" but that is to miss the point. I want to play at the top level but I want a challenge too, and it should be possible to have that. At the moment it isn't really.

Set yourself limits. Yes, you might have a £200m transfer kitty. You don't have to use it. Don't have 2 top players per position; bring through youth players as backups. Don't exploit the transfer AI. Don't go for players you think wouldn't leave their clubs IRL. Too easy to get lots of good newgens? It is - then don't scout for them, or limit yourself to your own academy and maybe those of your feeder teams. Don't poach young players from teams who should be your competitors. Don't use a tactic which exploits the AI - use one which replicates a real life footballing philosophy.

Etc.

Slawbawn
30-03-2010, 15:11
Go and manage an amateur club in level-11 or so of the English leagues, where you can't offer players wages or a regular contract, and then say its easy.

gooner83
30-03-2010, 15:12
OK maybe not Pompey :D But Wolves yes it could be easily done.

Wolves it is then :) good luck

AcidBurn
30-03-2010, 15:12
But it should not be like that. The point is this: I could take any EPL club and within 5 years win the EPL. OK so I'm brilliant, whatever. The point is that once you've got to your team to this point it is too easy to just keep winning and winning and winning. I won the league 11 years on the trot with Spurs and the gap between me and the second place team got bigger and bigger every year. The AI just just can't challenge you.

The OP and I (and I can't believe there are not more players out there who feel the same) want to manage at the top level but still be challenged by the AI.

To be honest I have not played a game that lasts for season after season, I have got to season 6 with Everton. I won the league in the second season then got pasted by Man City in the 3rd season, won it again back to back although the second time was a hard fought victory. I guess after that it will get easier to keep winning the league but I still haven't bagged the Champions League.

It has been like this on every FM though, the problem in what you are describing is the buying skills of the AI teams. Us as user usually buy a few players for the future where as the AI seems to buy bad youth players and then simply relies on their older players to keep them going.

robzilla
30-03-2010, 15:15
Set yourself limits. Yes, you might have a £200m transfer kitty. You don't have to use it. Don't have 2 top players per position; bring through youth players as backups. Too easy to get lots of good newgens? It is - then don't scout for them, or limit yourself to your own academy and maybe those of your feeder teams. Don't poach young players from teams who should be your competitors. Don't use a tactic which exploits the AI - use one which replicates a real life footballing philosophy.

Etc.

A couple of good points here but again essentially missing the main point of the thread which is that it should not be so easy, even with a big team, to steamroller everyone in your way.

To suggest not scouting for good players is ridiculous. As is suggesting to not poaching youngsters from your competitors. Both completely unrealistic.

Don't have two top players for every position. Are you serious?

As to the choice of tactics, surely the player should be allowed to take any tactical approach he likes? And since when was playing without wingers or using a narrow formation "not a real life footballing philosophy"?

erik86
30-03-2010, 15:15
Try winning the PL with Hull.. I couldnt do it.

speople
30-03-2010, 15:21
Go and manage an amateur club in level-11 or so of the English leagues, where you can't offer players wages or a regular contract, and then say its easy.

Actually, it is also quite easy to sign players (especially bulgarians) on amateur contracts who are way better than lv 11.

And as for the other clubs simpy signing your amateur players as free transfers at any time during the season, i quickly realised that if you offer them another contract whenever anyone is interested in them, (sometimes even doing it 2-3 times within a week) the interested clubs lose interest and you therefore get to keep the player till lv 10 where you can offer a semi-pro paid contract and no one can simply come in and nick them from you.

Vermundr
30-03-2010, 15:25
Pathetic. Too easy? Try not reloading next time at all.

vrisk85
30-03-2010, 15:25
You want a challenge with a major club ? What challenge would that be ? Like, you want to lose every other game ? You want players to refuse to come to your club ? You want to get 1 point per win instead of 3 ?
From what you're saying, you're a good manager, you're cursed, quit FM.

I never dominate the league, even though I have played with both Real Madrid and Arsenal, random awful performances and injuries prevent me from scoring 5 goals a game, even if I had the tactic crap all sorted out..

But, honestly, saying a game is too easy when you're playing with the big boys is silly, you may think that you'll win the Serie A with a small club, but I guess you haven't done it yet, so go ahead and do that.
Oh and please don't cry about how easy it is to win the league with *ANY CLUB*, even if you do manage to do it with *ANY CLUB*, that's the whole bloody point of this game (football), to win, if you're looking for some excitement, set yourself your own goals.

redmark
30-03-2010, 15:30
A couple of good points here but again essentially missing the main point of the thread which is that it should not be so easy, even with a big team, to steamroller everyone in your way.
It's a game, not real life. Could it be better written? Of course it could -as could every other piece of software on earth. It gets better every year and it's pretty damn good. It's not perfect though, and it never will be.


To suggest not scouting for good players is ridiculous. As is suggesting to not poaching youngsters from your competitors. Both completely unrealistic.
It's very easy to have 10-15 super scouts, scouting all of the major football nations and picking up all of the best prospects. Only a handful seem to 'stay loyal' and it's 'too easy' to get those players (particularly if you've found the game so far too easy, as you've increased your club and personal reputation, so everyone wants to join you). So what do you do? Do it anyway, then complain the game is too easy? Or impose limits on yourself - recruit from certain countries only, don't scout on the exact date the newgens get created, limit yourself to one newgen per position per year, own youths or plus feeders only, etc, etc.

You've already said that clubs aren't great at buying and replacing players; so what happens if you poach their best youngsters? Not much point in complaining they're too weak if you made them that way.


Don't have two top layers for every position. Are you serious?
Yes, deadly serious. I don't want 4 and 5 star players sitting on the bench.


As to the choice of tactics, surely the player should be allowed to take any tactical approach he likes? And since when was playing without wingers or using a narrow formation "not a real life footballing philosopy"?
I play fairly narrow myself - the ME flaw is partly overstated on that, I think (which was more about having 3 ST's). But my tactics are carefully designed to replicate a particular real life system and I go out of my way to avoid using the corner bug, for instance (to the point that my corners are almost pointless).

StevoRobbo
30-03-2010, 15:33
A couple of good points here but again essentially missing the main point of the thread which is that it should not be so easy, even with a big team, to steamroller everyone in your way.

To suggest not scouting for good players is ridiculous. As is suggesting to not poaching youngsters from your competitors. Both completely unrealistic.

Don't have two top players for every position. Are you serious?

As to the choice of tactics, surely the player should be allowed to take any tactical approach he likes? And since when was playing without wingers or using a narrow formation "not a real life footballing philosophy"?

Yes teams do play narrow IRL. Im not disputing that but this version of game favours narrow tactics for some reason. Using wingers has become a bit better with 10.3 but not much. If you use Mr Hough's tactic your pretty much guaranteed to win any league you play in. If there was a diablo tactic around you wouldnt use it would you because it would be too easy. Using a Narrow formation is as close as your going to get so all im saying is try playin a 4-2-4 with an AMR/L.

Its easy to take over somebody like Aston Villa and sell A. Young and Milner for a big sum because you dont use wingers. The use Mr Hough's tactic with the addition of a few class CM's and steamroller the league. I know ive done it.

Im now man Utd playing a 4-2-4 with AMR/L and have won the league twice in 5 seasons. I even finished 7th one season because im bringing in young players and playing them. I only have about 9 players over 22 at the moment and its been very enjoyable.

The game is how you make it. I could have stuck with the Man Utd squad, used my budget every season and batter everyone that comes near me but because ive concentrated on youth, I get a transfer kitty of £139m every season that i hardly touch. Maybe £10m on youth players. Now my 16 years olds that I bought are now 20/21 and in the first team and pushing for the league every year. That to me is more satisfying.

robzilla
30-03-2010, 15:33
You want a challenge with a major club ? What challenge would that be ? Like, you want to lose every other game ? You want players to refuse to come to your club ? You want to get 1 point per win instead of 3 ?

Have you read the thread? What some of us are wanting is the AI to be better at keeping up with the user and putting up a challenge. This means signing better players, being better at tactics, etc.


I never dominate the league, even though I have played with both Real Madrid and Arsenal, random awful performances and injuries prevent me from scoring 5 goals a game, even if I had the tactic crap all sorted out..

OK......


But, honestly, saying a game is too easy when you're playing with the big boys is silly, you may think that you'll win the Serie A with a small club, but I guess you haven't done it yet, so go ahead and do that.

I have. Gela if you're interested.

gooner83
30-03-2010, 16:41
to be perfectly honest i just think you have completely mastered this game and no matter what is put in front of you, you will without doubt come out on top and no doubt it will be by a considerable margin. The game is what it is as unfortunately for you the game cannot compete with your level of skill. Time to quit the game and wait for something to come on the market more challenging. I feel you may have a very long wait though.

StevoRobbo
30-03-2010, 16:43
to be perfectly honest i just think you have completely mastered this game and no matter what is put in front of you, you will without doubt come out on top and no doubt it will be by a considerable margin. The game is what it is as unfortunately for you the game cannot compete with your level of skill. Time to quit the game and wait for something to come on the market more challenging. I feel you may have a very long wait though.

I like this :D Excellent :thup:

ac13
30-03-2010, 16:56
are you using GenieScout to scout your players? Do you use a narrow formation all the time which you know exploits the ME? Try playing with wingers and still winning games.

Yeah what he said. Don't use exploits in the ME rather use a standard formation that other teams use.

I think the problem is SI is catering to those who want it to be easy...makng it unrealistically easy to get players who'd never want to come to your club...making club reps increase to fast.

10.3 seems something of an improvement in terms of clubs working harder to bring in talented youngsters but still has a long way to go in terms of making the managers dealings in the transfer market and rotation up to the level of a real person. In FM how often do real managers ever bring in a player who has any chance of becoming a flop? And how often will they let someone go who then becomes really good? I would guess vary rarely. Yet in real life even top managers do quite often. Since the introdution of the star system for CA and PA it would take a moron to mess up.

PitchPosh
30-03-2010, 18:21
I agree with the majority of the OP. However, I too think they only way to encounter an challenge with a top club is for you to make it a challenge for yourself. The biggest challenge I've found to be is making a top club financially sound and profitable.

Currently I'm playing as Arsenal with a goal to make them the richest club in the world. With this goal comes limits, such as excluding the purchases of expensive "star" players and looking to the youth. You also have to set up an expansive scouting network along with creating beneficial worldwide links with other clubs.

I managed West Brom taking them to 4 EPL Titles, and 5 CL titles with a boat load of other cups in tow, but within those 5 years found myself operating at a healthy loss, or barely breaking even because of the money I had to spend to stay competitive. I personally think this is the hardest challenge in the game, especially with debt like most of the top clubs in Europe have.

FestyF
30-03-2010, 20:20
What people fail to understand is that this is just a game. Every pc game can be mastered by hard core gamers at some point. Football Manager is no different. I have also stopped playing FM because I also feel I've mastered this game. (For e.g. with Sunderland I finished 14th in first season, 11th in second season and won the league every season I played from then on....)

I'm now searching for some other strategy/simulation games. :)

vrisk85
30-03-2010, 21:18
Have you read the thread? What some of us are wanting is the AI to be better at keeping up with the user and putting up a challenge. This means signing better players, being better at tactics, etc.
OK......
I have. Gela if you're interested.
I haven't read everything, there's just too much to read ^^
If that's the case then I can agree with that, but the game isn't easy for everyone, that was my point to which you replied with some weird "OK...." :) So making it even harder will simply kill joy I have, I'll be left with random semi-decent players at best, and always be out-played by your proposed super AI (or not super, just human like ? :)).

Congratulations on winning Serie A with Gela, it wasn't my intention to question anyone's ability to succeed in FM.

ac13
30-03-2010, 21:31
If i do play a new game going to think of some way to make it more realistic. Maybe only use the default formation assman suggests preseason.

To make it more difficult to get so many good players only have scouts scouting regions and each scout is given 1 position hey can scout for eg a scouth who has a higher defensive attirubute can only look for a rb.

if you don't come up with something it doesn't matter how low a team you start with eventually your team is gong to be not that much worse on paper than the Ai's and you'll win the league...it's just a question of time.

there's just not that much incentive to build a great side because you don't really need one at the moment, just a decent tactic.

ArranoBeltza
30-03-2010, 21:47
Here are some suggestions to give you a more challenging game, without necessarily going very low in the league tier:

-Try MLS: The rules for this league are crazy and difficult to understand, but MLS makes for a good challenge. All of the teams are relatively balanced and any team could theoretically win the MLS Cup one year only to miss the playoffs the next. If you go to MLS, don't go to LA Galaxy, as they have the most money and reputation. You could try a good team that doesn't have so much money, such as Houston or Columbus, or maybe build up one of the lower teams like such as San Jose or Dallas.

-Athletic Club Bilbao: Part of the reason I say this, admittedly, is because they're my favorite team. However, they provide a very unique challenge in that you can only sign Basque players or Spanish U-16 players. It's easy to finish 3rd-7th your first few seasons, but building a team that can win La Liga or European competitions is very difficult but can also be very rewarding. It will probably take a few seasons before you can realistically do that.

-Put restrictions on yourself: While Athletic can only sign Basques and this is hard-coded into the game, why not try something similar with another team? Start as Aston Villa or, if you want a greater challenge, West Ham and see what you can do only signing English players, for example. Maybe try a Lazio save doing the same thing with Italians.

-Scotland: Play as a team outside of the Old Firm and try to break their dominance. This, like winning La Liga as Athletic, will take some time. It would take more time to be able to challenge for European trophies. If you want a really long-term save, bring up a lower-league Scottish team up to the SPL and try for the same goal.

roo86
30-03-2010, 21:58
To the poster, currently involved in a network game with my mate. In year 2030, for first few years was close with Arsenal, City, Pool and ourslves Manchester United and Chelsea. For past 10 years or so, its just been ourselves no one comes close to us. It is true that the AI buys oldish, past sell by date players for well over the odds.. eg 31 yr old John Shelvey for 31 million.

And despite being labelled as "rich" clubs they just are unable to keep pace. They dont really invest or youth or spend necessary money which is disappointing for long term games.

CowSimao
31-03-2010, 06:13
I can agree with him about the transfer AI. Ok, maybe FM09 had some weird prices going around, but the types of players teams signed were mostly realistic. You didn't see Championship level players going to top 4 sides like you do now.

Teams could improve massively with transfers in 09 also. I remember this Borussa Dortmund side that I faced with Benfica in the UEFA Cup on FM09, most of the players in there were the AI manager's signings and they were deadly! I don't see this team building in FM10.

Another proof is the selling of players in FM09. In FM10, teams are more interested in your reserves than your star players sometimes. This wasn't the case when I was Benfica in FM09, teams chased my best players like Cardozo and David Luiz. And I actually had to sell them because they offered 20m+ euros for them which was very realistic. In FM10, the highest offer for Luiz is like 7m euros while they don't mind buying some reserve player for 3-4m.

Vangelis21
31-03-2010, 07:39
I don't have the power to read the whole page but i will agree with the fist reply that says "How can you call a game easy when you manage the like of Man utd and Milan"...

Bhoy!
31-03-2010, 09:01
Please win Prem with Portsmouth or Wolves within 5 years ;)
I actually did that with Pompey, if you survive the first three seasons it gets considerably easier, because all the loans are then paid off and you can actually spend a fair bit of money. And that's without using the 48 month thing to spend millions from the start.

Vangelis21
31-03-2010, 09:08
I WILL do that with Hull (more difficult thatn Wolves and Portsmouth) in 3 years ;)

Cougar2010
31-03-2010, 09:22
The game is as easy or as hard as you make it.

These are some of the things I do as standard that haven't been mentioned so far (Some of which you may or may not already do):

A) Always use "Fog of War"
B) Don't use the staff search, sign staff by using the job centre.
C) Don't use the player search, use your scouts.
D) Don't use third party applications.
E) Don't use outside knowledge either from RL or from a previous save - Use your scouts.
F) Try a different country.

ac13
31-03-2010, 10:17
I WILL do that with Hull (more difficult thatn Wolves and Portsmouth) in 3 years ;)

Hull has a higher rep than wolves so why is it more difficult... smaller stadium?

ac13
31-03-2010, 10:20
The game is as easy or as hard as you make it.

These are some of the things I do as standard that haven't been mentioned so far (Some of which you may or may not already do):

A) Always use "Fog of War"
B) Don't use the staff search, sign staff by using the job centre.
C) Don't use the player search, use your scouts.
D) Don't use third party applications.
E) Don't use outside knowledge either from RL or from a previous save - Use your scouts.
F) Try a different country.

This makes it slightly tougher put the point is you don't have to create a team that is far better than the rest to do well. It doesn't even have to be on par. My assman says I need to strengthen to finish in a European place yet I'm a couple of points off the top.

Vangelis21
31-03-2010, 11:09
Hull has a higher rep than wolves so why is it more difficult... smaller stadium?


I was SOOO sure that what you said was wrong that i had to check it out!
Hull's reputation = 5500
Wolves' reputation = 5700
;)

Apart from that, Hull starts with terrible squad and terrible injuries! No money at all and no back up players in order to sell some. No one decent agrees to come at first year.

You need more proof? :)

CmBeginner
31-03-2010, 11:35
First, sorry for not reading all posts. Am in a bit of hurry and feel the need to post! :)

I am having a completely other experience. Going incredibly bad for me. Started with Sirius in Swedish Superettan and lost all the games I played. Restarted and "cheated" with reloading just to check. Loosing and loosing despite testing almost all tacticts and lettint the coaches pick the team.

Somehow managed to get the managmentpost at Millwall and the same thing. Loosing about 93% of the games I play despite trying everything.

Yes, I suck I know! Can´t figure out what to do to enjoy the game more than just cursing all the losses I am experiencing. :(

dking
31-03-2010, 11:40
You complain its too easy and your managing AC Milan, Man Utd and Italy. You want to try managing in a lower league or with a team you know absolutely nothing about.

Also if you want people to read your 'rant', try using paragraphs. It makes it a lot easier to read.

The OP has a very valid point. The game is to easy and the AI is basically crap. Let's hope for a big improvement in the next FM version.

I have gone lower league teams which I know nothing about and it's still to easy. I've been promoted at my first attempts and gone on to win the top flights straight away. The game BADLY deteriorates because of the AI, and playing a game for more than four or five seasons, realistically and challengingly, is next to impossible, unless of course you just keep joining crap clubs with no chance and as I said before, it still isn't hard enough. I suppose this sounds like bragging but it is just my honest opinion and experience of the game.

I'm hearing palace are tough to manage? may give it a shot.

Wilson123
31-03-2010, 12:05
The game is as easy or as hard as you make it.

These are some of the things I do as standard that haven't been mentioned so far (Some of which you may or may not already do):

A) Always use "Fog of War"
B) Don't use the staff search, sign staff by using the job centre.
C) Don't use the player search, use your scouts.
D) Don't use third party applications.
E) Don't use outside knowledge either from RL or from a previous save - Use your scouts.
F) Try a different country.

Well said sir.

It is also down to how you go about shopping for players. I'm playing as SWFC and rather than do what I would typically do and go out for the games "world beaters" (be it at whatever level) and instead I shopped for a side that would be a "strong" championship side. Not optimistic enough? Maybe not but as an owls fan that is what I would want for the club IRL right now so that is the route I went - signing all players that I had heard of IRL as well, and either english/irish.

If you are coming in buying big players who we all know are stunning players and whos stats turn into world beaters - christ I remember a few years back in a network game buying players who we'd never heard of just because their stats were world beaters. Even now I haven't managed a top side for an age and looking at the stats of gerrard for example is unbelievable after all the 10s and 12s I sit staring at normally.

But with regards to the AI shopping, yes it is bizarre. Ebanks-blake was an £8m signing for AC Milan on my SWFC save. He never played a game and spent 2 years sat in the reserve squad.

Good on you for your run though. It is has been far too long since I have tasted any glory :(

gooner83
31-03-2010, 13:39
maybe try the option of not loading real players and attribute masking. Never tried it myself but i would imagine it would be a very challenging experience. Even for your world class skills

ac13
31-03-2010, 13:47
Well said sir.

It is also down to how you go about shopping for players. I'm playing as SWFC and rather than do what I would typically do and go out for the games "world beaters" (be it at whatever level) and instead I shopped for a side that would be a "strong" championship side. Not optimistic enough? Maybe not but as an owls fan that is what I would want for the club IRL right now so that is the route I went - signing all players that I had heard of IRL as well, and either english/irish.

If you are coming in buying big players who we all know are stunning players and whos stats turn into world beaters - christ I remember a few years back in a network game buying players who we'd never heard of just because their stats were world beaters. Even now I haven't managed a top side for an age and looking at the stats of gerrard for example is unbelievable after all the 10s and 12s I sit staring at normally.

But with regards to the AI shopping, yes it is bizarre. Ebanks-blake was an £8m signing for AC Milan on my SWFC save. He never played a game and spent 2 years sat in the reserve squad.

Good on you for your run though. It is has been far too long since I have tasted any glory :(


erm..so when your scouts tell you about a really good player you don't buy him?

I guess sticking to English players may be tough as english players seem overvalued and there's possibly more competition for the signature. There loads of bargains in scotland though...not sure about wales and ireland.

Mazz
31-03-2010, 15:02
I myself can't really comment on how easy it is to manage a big team, as it's been a long time since I've done so. Also, I never manage in the EPL (or any leagues in England for that matter) because it doesn't really interest me - I watch it week-in week-out and want something different rather than managing/buying the same players all the time. Plus, the money EPL teams get would, I'm sure, make it difficult not to succeed in one way or another. I find it much more enjoyable to start a game in a new country/continent.

I do, also, impose some limits on myself, as other posters have mentioned previously. For example, I don't sign Re-gens. This is just a personal preference of mine. I believe that they are incredibly over-rated, and it is far too easy to sign a world-class 17 year old who can slot straight into your first 11. This doesn't happen in real life. Plus, I gain much more satisfaction from finding a real unknown gem - even if they'll take longer to mature and improve (and may never reach the same stats as the re-gen).

Secondly, another personal preference, I don't like to spend big money. Don't get me wrong, I buy a lot of players - that's my favourite part of FM - but I only really spend money that I receive from selling players. I hesitate at paying millions for any single player. I'm of the belief that you can always find somebody of an equal ability for less money somewhere. For example, in my longest FM10 save, the most I've spent on one player is £3m.

Thirdly, I sometimes impose limits on who I can buy etc. Again, in my longest save, as Le Havre, I decided to only buy French and African players and so far it's been really enjoyable. Of course, you are always free to break these limits - I've signed 2 Americans and a Brazilian - but it's a lot more rewarding when you succeed with these limits in place.
I doubt I'd be so pleased with my record against champions Lyon (played 3-won 2-drawn 1) -taking into account that I'm a promoted team - if I had signed lots of well-known players.

Maybe try managing more than one team at once? It can be difficult trying to juggle both, whilst it means you will also have to widen your transfer interests considerably. I'm currently managing 4 teams in one save - each with different goals and abilities.

And, just before I finish, if you do want a good challenge try managing in Africa using created leagues and FuryG's African Mega database. With very little money, and only players from Africa to choose from (as those already in Europe will have absolutely no interest in returning to the continent), it'll be a new experience.

redmark
31-03-2010, 15:15
erm..so when your scouts tell you about a really good player you don't buy him?

The point is your scouts will tell you about plenty of really good players. Do you buy all of them?

bushdoc
31-03-2010, 17:31
Manage a very low league team, dont use any outside programs and use your own tactics. I have been managing same team for 20 years and the only thing I have won is the carling cup, I reckon world domination awaits in 10 years and by that time i will have deserved it.!