Absolutely Absurd this Has not Been Fixed

Three games left in the season and I am battling hard for a promotion spot. Up 2-1 at home to a mid-table side with 10 minutes left in the game and I really need to win this game. I watch the game in extended highlights, but go to my tactics while there is no highlight playing. I take off a striker and bring in a ball-winning MC to support the middle and close down the game. Make all the customary tactical instructions and hit confirm.

A minute of game time goes by and the game cuts to highlight. The substitution has not been made. I watch as the opposition build an attack, work the ball through the middle, and hit a well placed shot from just outside the area to tie the game. Prior to the resulting kick-off, my team makes the substitution and changes its strategy to defensive BECAUSE I CANNOT CANCEL SUBSTITUTIONS OR TACTICAL CHANGES DESPITE THE GAME NOW BEING TIED! For some reason they are 'locked in' and nothing will change that.

This has been the case for years, serves no purpose, is completely unrealistic, and absolutely kills a game like this. How is this not been changed? What possible reason does it have? I quit the game in disgust and may not play for a few days. I don't mind losing, but this is an inability to properly play. Rant over, fingers crossed maybe it will be fixed for FM11 but given he track record I am not overly optimistic.

Yes this annoys me greatly too.

but is this one maybe to put in the 2011 improvements thread?

Not going to disagree but the game has to 'recalculate' the match result after the subs and changes are made so another step would need to be added to further 'recalculate' based on any further changes.

With the way FM is currently designed and the mass of old code (that devs seem reluctant to touch through fear of knock on's) I can see this being a mine field.

yeah i think that they should go back to the old style of you going to the tactics when the game has stopped, for example when there has been a foul or the ball has gone out for a throw in, cos then nothing will change by the time your players come on and you change all of your tactics.

in real games you can take up to a min to make a substitution.

theres a new feature where you can make a quick substitution. you could have used that.

It can certainly take a long time for tactical changes to kick in, sometimes 15 minutes or more.

I would have thought "cancel changes" was a no-brainer. If realism is our Holy Grail.

in real games you can take up to a min to make a substitution.

theres a new feature where you can make a quick substitution. you could have used that.

My gripe is not with the spee it takes to make a substitution, it is with the fact that I cannot cancel the substitution/tactical change prior to it being made.

I know we have all seen a player fully stripped of his warm up gear standing next to the 4th official ready to come on only for something to happen and he be told to sit back down. Why can I not do this?

Not going to disagree but the game has to 'recalculate' the match result after the subs and changes are made so another step would need to be added to further 'recalculate' based on any further changes.

With the way FM is currently designed and the mass of old code (that devs seem reluctant to touch through fear of knock on's) I can see this being a mine field.

I really dont understand your agrument here. I want to cancel prior to the substitution and the calculations.

Plus I can make changes every few minutes and the game recaculates every time. Doesn't seem to be a limit.

I had a rather unfortunate incident of this in the Champions League quarter final. The first leg at home was 2-2 and we were 0-0 in the away leg with about 20 minutes to go. Looking set to go out on away goals I threw the kitchen sink at them, bringing on 3 attacking players in an all out attack formation. After finishing the subs, I sat and watched a couple of minutes of highlights with the old formation, in which we scored.

After the goal I had to sit and watch my defenders leaving the field in place of attackers while 3-2 up with 15 minutes to go, it was painful. I made a desperate attempt to put them back into a defensive formation but it failed badly, they scored just minutes later to knock us out on away goals.

Gutted

There was a cancel button up until a few years ago (FM 08 maybe?) I completely agree they should never have gotten rid of it. I've never had your situation (I wouldn't normally bring on extra defensive players with less than a 2 goal lead), but I have had the situation where I've made my 3rd sub in the tactics screen and then had a player injured before the change was made and then ended up down to 10 players when I should have been able to cancel the original substitution and replace the injured man himself. The current system is like saying that once you've told the 4th official what numbers to put on his board the change is irrevocable when in reality you often see managers change their minds with subs standing ready to go.

I have to say my only real experience with this situation is subbing strikers/AMs' and then having a highlight come up of them scoring, then promptly being subbed. feel like a bit of a douche!

I really dont understand your agrument here. I want to cancel prior to the substitution and the calculations.

Plus I can make changes every few minutes and the game recaculates every time. Doesn't seem to be a limit.

My argument is that the current code for the match engine isn't mature enough to handle it.

My argument is that the current code for the match engine isn't mature enough to handle it.

How though, other than the fact that it is not actually programmed in at the moment? I make a tactics change and return to the game. The time up the moment the substitution actually takes place (and beyond should the sub not happen) has already been calculated. I am asking for a button to allow the computer to do what it was already going to do with the match instead of recalculating and applying changes. If I make changes/cancel prior to the tactics being implemented, how is this difficult for the match engine? It is doing what it is made to do, apply changes.

Last I check, the changes are not calculated until they are put in, which is the reason for the pause and the "applying tactical changes" message. What am I missing here?

How though, other than the fact that it is not actually programmed in at the moment? I make a tactics change and return to the game. The time up the moment the substitution actually takes place (and beyond should the sub not happen) has already been calculated. I am asking for a button to allow the computer to do what it was already going to do with the match instead of recalculating and applying changes. If I make changes/cancel prior to the tactics being implemented, how is this difficult for the match engine? It is doing what it is made to do, apply changes.

Last I check, the changes are not calculated until they are put in, which is the reason for the pause and the "applying tactical changes" message. What am I missing here?

Okay you make your change and hit submit, the recalculation happens. At the moment all previous outcomes are forgotten.

So a MAJOR change needs to happen to store the outcomes prior to the substitution.

Or does it give a completely new outcome altogether?

Okay you make your change and hit submit, the recalculation happens. At the moment all previous outcomes are forgotten.

So a MAJOR change needs to happen to store the outcomes prior to the substitution.

Or does it give a completely new outcome altogether?

I think this is incorrect. Because the game keeps playing without the changes, thus continuing on the original line until the sub comes in. Plus the fact that the tactics button is grayed out and the screen gives me a message when it is changing tactics leads to believe that the recalculation happens when the tactics are implemented. Otherwise what is the game doing in the interim?

Yes this is an area that annoys me. If i make a sub and a game changing event occurs then i want to amend my substitutions.