Forcing Citizenship

Well my problem is i have Sergio Aguero and another 3 non-eu players in my team.

As i am in spain i have a limit of 3 non-eu players registered in my first tea.

Sergio is curently "considering citizenship" for spain which would obviously make him an eu player and hence my third non-eu can come in from the cold (poland feeder team)

so any ideas for forcing Aguero to be spanish???

Lock him in a room with Martin Skrtel and a hammer...

I think this really needs to be looked at, especially at international level.

Im waiting for Almunia to stop considering English Citizenship, and actually claim it.

id like to know this, currently on my ukraine international save and there is a brilliant brazilian who would be perfect up front wit shevchecnko, instead of fat paris hilton.

would be hard to implement as in real life some of these players will never claim citizenship.

Hopefully this bug of players being stuck on considering nationality for years after they are eligible will be fixed for FM2009. I think that having a way of asking the players to consider dual nationality in the player interaction screen should be introduced.

Is there a save game editor that will allow you to alter the years it takes to be eligible for nationality because in the official editor the time is set to 0 in countries like England and Scotland whereas it should be 5 and this is why players stall on accepting dual nationality I think.

You can change nationality mid-game with FMM. Don't think you can class it as cheating if it's fixing a bug. Add a second nationality if you can. I've not had the problem, so haven't tried yet.

Originally posted by trekman:

Hopefully this bug of players being stuck on considering nationality for years after they are eligible will be fixed for FM2009. I think that having a way of asking the players to consider dual nationality in the player interaction screen should be introduced.

Is there a save game editor that will allow you to alter the years it takes to be eligible for nationality because in the official editor the time is set to 0 in countries like England and Scotland whereas it should be 5 and this is why players stall on accepting dual nationality I think.

There isn't an in game editor but you can use the normal pre game editor to change how long it takes for nationality.

Originally posted by scotland the brave:

Well my problem is i have Sergio Aguero and another 3 non-eu players in my team.

As i am in spain i have a limit of 3 non-eu players registered in my first tea.

Sergio is curently "considering citizenship" for spain which would obviously make him an eu player and hence my third non-eu can come in from the cold (poland feeder team)

so any ideas for forcing Aguero to be spanish???

Surely he already has a huge number of caps for Argentina? It's not like he's uncapped like Almunia.

Maybe they just say they are 'considering' citizenship to curry favour with their club's supporters but privately have a sense of national pride.

Just wait until he gets 800 days. So far, all non EU players I have in the team turned into Spanish after exactly 800 days, so far 5 of them now.

Originally posted by andrespringett:

would be hard to implement as in real life some of these players will never claim citizenship.

Thats rubbish. Any player that is elligable for citizenship would claim it if thier club asked them too. Unless they were total morons. Esp since the club would do most the paperworks, and probably chase it through for you anyway. There no disadvantage to having multiple nationalities, only advantages.

Well.... unless one of those nationalities happens to be Israeli. Then theres a bunch of countries you wont be allowed in... but then I think if you have another nationality you can just use a non-israeli passport and you'd be alright anyway.

and there's FMM... the unofficial workaround

I agree this is irritating. I don't know the ins and outs of citizenship, but I wasn't aware there are any real downsides to having dual nationality - it's not as if you're suddenly saying you are no longer your original nationality.

I have a long-serving Argentine at Monterrey who is considering Mexican nationality, but doesn't take it so I can't free up a place for a new foreign player in my allocation of 5 Ideally I'd like an entirely Mexican squad anyway, but it's hard to find the players for now and they cost a lot!

While it's true that a second nationality is to some extent often a very pragmatic thing, at least for some, it's also an issue of national pride and a decision not taken lightly. In the original country, the supporters might critizise the player for being a money-hound instead of loyal to the country.

Anyway, the issue is also slightly more complex in a very real sense because some countries don't allow for a dual citizenship.

To state that any player would take up another nationality just because the club asked them to would be a gross misstatement. It's not a meaningless badge that can be applied next to your existing ones. It has very real meaning and may even have severe consequences in the private life of a player.

That said, an eternal "considering nationality" mindset for a player is probably a bug.

if a player who is eligible but has not taken EU nationality agrees terms with a club for which he would be a non-EU first-team member, and the club are past their limit for foreign players:

1. it would be logical for his new club to ask him to accept dual nationality or

2. it would be logical for the player, who wants to join the club and play regular football, to resolve the situation himself by accepting a dual nationality.

Eto'o did it, seemingly to help out barcelona more than anything else, and mexican kid Giovanni Dos Santos was given special dispensation so that he could play for Barca in 2006/07, which some clubs didn't agree with iirc. obviously that made the recent spurs deal easier.

national pride is the key factor, however. last time i checked, there was no "pride" hidden attribute. if anything, loyalty is as close to that, but players accepting dual nationality doesn't mean that they will turn their backs on the motherland play for their new countrys' national team, unless thats the reason why they've done it. we should be able to do this at least at international level. Poland were very unlucky with Podolski & Klose when you think about it, they themselves convinced nigerian Oilisedebe to become polish and play for them.

i think fenerbaches Aurelio (brazillian) took turkish nationality just in time (and for the sole purpose of) playing in Euro 2008 and beyond for turkey. he even gave himself a turkish name, Mehmet instead of Marco.

(mild rant over)

as far as being a bug, i don't think you can call it that. some players won't accept dual nationality full stop. but having a player interaction option to ask him would at least balance it out.

Originally posted by Klimowicz:

if a player who is eligible but has not taken EU nationality agrees terms with a club for which he would be a non-EU first-team member, and the club are past their limit for foreign players:

1. it would be logical for his new club to ask him to accept dual nationality or

2. it would be logical for the player, who wants to join the club and play regular football, to resolve the situation himself by accepting a dual nationality.

Oh, I agree this may be the rational thing to do, purely from a footballing perpective. But it has many more aspects; emotional aspects like national pride (as you mentioned yourself), but also very real tangible ones which players may or may not care about IRL (loss of previous nationality, unable to sit in parliament if holding dual citizenship for some countries, etc). This is hard to model in the FM-world, but these are just aspects that real people have to take into consideration IRL. The decision to get a second nationality is far less straightforward as it would seem to some here.

And personally, I might be offended if a prospective employer would ask of me to accept a citizenship before accepting me as an employee. I'd understand that that would be much more convenient for all sorts of purposes, but to outright ask/demand it would be out of the line for me.

i think fenerbaches Aurelio (brazillian) took turkish nationality just in time (and for the sole purpose of) playing in Euro 2008 and beyond for turkey. he even gave himself a turkish name, Mehmet instead of Marco.

This actually shows it may be a more personal decision than the coldly calculating one you've described. Changing your name is not something you do lightly; would you like people calling you a different name for the rest of your life?

as far as being a bug, i don't think you can call it that. some players won't accept dual nationality full stop. but having a player interaction option to ask him would at least balance it out.

You misunderstood my position: the bug isn't that a player will not accept, the bug is the eternal "considering citizenship" status that players can acquire. After consedering for a bit, a player should have decided yes or no. They should not be stuck considering for eternity.

Originally posted by TeeWee:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">as far as being a bug, i don't think you can call it that. some players won't accept dual nationality full stop. but having a player interaction option to ask him would at least balance it out.

You misunderstood my position: the bug isn't that a player will not accept, the bug is the eternal "considering citizenship" status that players can acquire. After consedering for a bit, a player should have decided yes or no. They should not be stuck considering for eternity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i understood, i just didn't word my point properly... put it this way. when somebody is considering something, that would be on their mind. if "considering citizenship" was "eligible for citizenship", it would make more sense. if a player is eternally considering citizenship but never accepts it, its just misleading.

but i agree, a simple yes or no after a few months would be handy.

btw, the aurelio point was more "he even went as far as to change his name...", which underlined his intentions. he actually took dual nationality in 2006 and changed his name before he got his first cap later that year, i was thinking of another Euro 2008 player.

guerriero who is playing for poland (brazilian by birth). his polish passport was apparantly rushed through so he could play in the euros

but i agree, a simple yes or no after a few months would be handy.

WHS

Originally posted by Flair:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by andrespringett:

would be hard to implement as in real life some of these players will never claim citizenship.

Thats rubbish. Any player that is elligable for citizenship would claim it if thier club asked them too. Unless they were total morons. Esp since the club would do most the paperworks, and probably chase it through for you anyway. There no disadvantage to having multiple nationalities, only advantages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roberto Carlos didn't want to take the Spanish Citizenship although he played in Spain for longer than he needed because he felt it would be like a trahison to his country or something. It does happen irl, players don't pick up nationalities left and right irl and they shouldn't in FM. It's fine the way it is.

players don't pick up nationalities left and right irl and they shouldn't in FM.

While this is true I think there should still be something in the game along the lines of 'X has declined to take nationality of Y even though he is now eligible'. This would then remove this annoying 'considering citizenship' thats currently in the game. I also think that Roberto Carlos is probably an exeption because most will want to play in Spain and so take nationality as they would not normally get in the team because of the 3 non eu rule.

Originally posted by ssestig:

guerriero who is playing for poland (brazilian by birth). his polish passport was apparantly rushed through so he could play in the euros

that's who i was referring to. it's somewhat understandable why so many brazilians opt for other countries. i would love it if this was implimented into the game.

i.e. "player x has decided to accept Turkish nationality due to continually being overlooked by the Brazilian national team manager" or "player x has answered the Turkish national team manager's call by accepting dual nationality. he was previously uncapped by Brazil".