Would it be cheating if...

Would it be cheating if before the beginning of the season, I save the game and reload until I get a good batch of regens?

I don't use FMRTE to see their PA, but I look at their stats, the Assistant manager reports, and if they are no good, I will restart the game until I get at least one good regen.

so you don't consider cheating reloading until you get something good out of it but you consider cheating looking at the PA which actually something tha tevery experienced manager can guess out of the stats?

so you don't consider cheating reloading until you get something good out of it but you consider cheating looking at the PA which actually something tha tevery experienced manager can guess out of the stats?

Its harder to guess looking at the PA then you think it is.

In FM09, I had a regen coming in with 120 CA, but only 140 PA.

He was highly rated by the coaches and just in a few weeks since he came into the game, he was attracting bids of up to 4 million pounds.

Because of that hidden element, I don't really consider it cheating. I would still like to know everybody's opinion

If a thread title starts with the words, "Is it cheating...?" the answer is almost always "yes."

But it's your game.

(And, yes, I HAVE cheated myself so I'm not going all FM fundamentalist on you.)

Would it be cheating if before the beginning of the season, I save the game and reload until I get a good batch of regens?

I don't use FMRTE to see their PA, but I look at their stats, the Assistant manager reports, and if they are no good, I will restart the game until I get at least one good regen.

Yes. Completely.

But do whatever you want!

this is just my opinion, take it or drop it mate.

1) reloading for ANY purpose is cheating.

2) knowing the ca and pa of players is not. my opinion is such because it does not tell you something you cannot guess. it is like knowledge. If you know how to read a player's attributes then you can guess the pa effectively! i used to use genie scout, but after more than 15 seasons combined in fm, i can gues their ca, pa easily.

cheers

Maybe it's cheating, but when the "most exciting prospect" of the year is a 1*PA guy, it means your state-of-the-art youth academy has f'd it up royally.

While it's true Barcelona don't produce a Messi every other year, the average level of the youth intakes is probably a bit higher than what you often get in FM.

why? hoe many super stars wonder kids have you seen in the last 3 years in the real word? now consider how many teams exist worldwide... i think the system is ok

If a thread title starts with the words, "Is it cheating...?" the answer is almost always "yes."

But it's your game.

(And, yes, I HAVE cheated myself so I'm not going all FM fundamentalist on you.)

I agree with and identify with this completely.

this is just my opinion, take it or drop it mate.

1) reloading for ANY purpose is cheating.

2) knowing the ca and pa of players is not. my opinion is such because it does not tell you something you cannot guess. it is like knowledge. If you know how to read a player's attributes then you can guess the pa effectively! i used to use genie scout, but after more than 15 seasons combined in fm, i can gues their ca, pa easily.

cheers

i think this needs to be put to the test. Anyone got some regen screenshots to see if he can correctly tell the Ca/PA?

P.S knowing the CA and PA is totally cheating

this is your opinion and you should state that next to the messages because you don't come out ok! also i will not be tested for something i know about myself lastly, have fun with the game and play it as you think it is suitable!

i'd consider it cheating, and i'd consider looking at PA/CA cheating as well. But its your game so as long as you don't mind enjoy it and play however you like.

Would it be cheating if before the beginning of the season, I save the game and reload until I get a good batch of regens?

I don't use FMRTE to see their PA, but I look at their stats, the Assistant manager reports, and if they are no good, I will restart the game until I get at least one good regen.

Cheating is when you do something that isn't an accepted way of playing the game normaly and then on the forums try to brag about a player you have got or an acievement or whatever you have accomplished.

Other than that,if you dont intend to brag about anything, then whatever you do is acceptable as it is your game

you can play the game like YOU want it.

period.

I kind of agree with speople here. As long as you are not going to be on the forums bragging about an amazing signing or a great player youve trained up, then you are absolutely entitled to play the game in a way that gives you most enjoyment.

The only thing that really bugs me is people using editors to their advantage then bragging about it.

Good luck to you and enjoy your game your own way.... guilt free!!!

i can't say i agree. bragging about a false achievement is not cheating. it is silly. i understand what you mean though. on the other hand, who is to say what is accepted and what not?

this is your opinion and you should state that next to the messages because you don't come out ok! also i will not be tested for something i know about myself lastly, have fun with the game and play it as you think it is suitable!

In MY OPINION it is fine that you cheated for 15 seasons.

However, that you cheated is an undisputable fact. Your faulty justification for your cheating and the fact that you're unwilling to back it up by any kind of "test" shows that deep down you know it is cheating.

Being able to see the exact PA of a player makes the game easier. It is not something that can be seen in the game but only in an external program. Does there need to be a warning at the beginning of the game to say "using an external program to see players CA and PA is cheating" for it to be cheating....no...it's common sense.

think of the definition of to cheat

"to take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers"

you are having your managerial ability tested. You have improper answers.

It's your game. But normally its cheating (I don't like the sound off that word). Believe me that the game will be more rewarding if you don't "cheat".

Cheating is when you do something that isn't an accepted way of playing the game normaly and then on the forums try to brag about a player you have got or an acievement or whatever you have accomplished.

An acceptable way of playing the game is open for discussion though and there are many different opinions, just ask the LLM users, so I don't think you can say that cheating is not doing it the acceptable way. Cheating, imo, is manipulating the game in a way that gives you an advantage that you didn't have to begin with.

Either way, who cares? Is the OP seriously going to think twice about doing it because a few other forum users don't think he should?

There is no bigger rush then beating the AI in a proper way.

What is a proper way?

Definitely cheating, but as has been said on numerous occasions - to each his own. If you feel that you'd get more enjoyment from doing it, then do it

Yes, it would.

Why do you care what we think?

What is a proper way?

Just by using the game itself, and no 3rd party add ons such as FMRTE, Scout etc, as they are both utilities than can and do give the human player a huge advantage over the AI opposition teams.

We can change our tactics/touchline shouts etc whenever we want, the AI team can ONLY do it according to how certain situations are coded. That is ENOUGH advantage as it is, but we also work the transfer system a LOT better than any AI team EVER will.

Honestly, we don't need anything else to beat the opposition to a pulp.

If a human player can't beat the FM AI without add ons then they are definitely playing the wrong genre of game for them.

Just by using the game itself, and no 3rd party add ons such as FMRTE, Scout etc, as they are both utilities than can and do give the human player a huge advantage over the AI opposition teams.

We can change our tactics/touchline shouts etc whenever we want, the AI team can ONLY do it according to how certain situations are coded. That is ENOUGH advantage as it is, but we also work the transfer system a LOT better than any AI team EVER will.

Honestly, we don't need anything else to beat the opposition to a pulp.

If a human player can't beat the FM AI without add ons then they are definitely playing the wrong genre of game for them.

What do you mean by "using the game itself"? I'm asking because different people think different ways are the most appropriate or right way to play the game. Take "player search" for instance, some people use it, others would say that they shouldn't and should use their scout.

If I was being pedantic I could say that the OP is using the game itself and not using third part software, he's not using FMRTE, just reloading. In effect he's using "the game itself", he's just not playing a realistic save and if we're assuming that no playing in a realistic manner is cheating then I dare say that a majority of us are cheating.

Why do you have to ask if its cheating anyway?

Your still going to do it regardless & its up to you to play how you like.

This isn't LLM

why? hoe many super stars wonder kids have you seen in the last 3 years in the real word? now consider how many teams exist worldwide... i think the system is ok

Who said a word about wanting wonderkids to show up at an high rate?

However it's not entirely true a Top Club with a top-notch youth academy will just produce a handful of no-hopers every single year.

I think the "happy medium" is missing: the lot of decent young players who won't really make it in the First Team but who'll be competent enough for professional football at a slightly lower level...

Not every youth player will be a Messi, but not every youth player will end up playing Sunday League football by age 21, still telling people "hey, I used to play for ____ Youth Team when I was 17"

It's a "good" form of cheating. It seems less objectionable to me that someone reloads a couple of times to get some decent youth intake, than loads up FMRTE to get the PA of every young player in the world to sign the best of them.

There's a bit of 'snobbery' attached to reloading in FM. Yes, I might do it if I go overboard with transfers in the summer and then decide I don't really want to play with Gourcuff, Aguero, Balotelli etc pushing out homegrown talent, or having to rotate world class players. Or I make a mistake and miss out on the signing I really did want, through not paying attention or getting distracted. Of course reloading to get the right result is pointless, but there are times when you might mess up what you wanted to do with a season, where reloading to keep your interest in a save is reasonable.

But some games are designed to be reloaded constantly; how many RPGs force you back to the start when you die? Ultimately it's only a game.

If the computer (lets say your closest competitor) would reload after a bad batch of youngsters and he has three Lukaku's. Would you consider it cheating? I repeat that this is your game. But technically your cheating. And people not using the search filter are just adding another dimension to the game. I believe that every good club has a database of players where he could look up players. In the worst possible scenario they can load up Fm. KV kortrijk bought a player only using google.

What do you mean by "using the game itself"? I'm asking because different people think different ways are the most appropriate or right way to play the game. Take "player search" for instance, some people use it, others would say that they shouldn't and should use their scout.

If I was being pedantic I could say that the OP is using the game itself and not using third part software, he's not using FMRTE, just reloading. In effect he's using "the game itself", he's just not playing a realistic save and if we're assuming that no playing in a realistic manner is cheating then I dare say that a majority of us are cheating.

By 'just using the game itself' I meant just playing and playing and playing without ever reloading because you feel you have been 'hard done by' whether it be a wrong call that handed the AI team the win over you in a cup final, or that this year or that year you didn't have the next best player on earth walk into your academy and say 'hi i'm gonna be the best footballer on the planet and i wanna start my career with you now'.

Initially, after playing CM4 for 5 years, I was shocked at some of the changes that had taken place and features that had been put into the game, but after playing it for a while now, i can see that ALL decisions happen 2 ways, both for you and against you.

A human player CAN'T take it as fact that they are gonna win every game, (I myself am on a great streak right now, but i know that one match it WILL come to an end)

A human player CAN'T take it as fact that THEIR academy is gonna produce a wonderful talent (regen) year in and year out. IRL whose academy does ? No ones as far as i am aware which is why you STILL get the big clubs in the world actually 'stealing/tapping up' promising youngsters in OTHER academies.

A person WILL get more enjoyment from the game in 'going by the book' (not using add ons, reloads etc) and defeating the AI than by the hollow feeling that will almost certainly come with knowing you haven't done it as the developers of the game intended.

If we were meant to have a FMRTE and Scout WITH the game, I am sure SI would have put one in officially for us to use as part of the game. The fact they haven't says that as far as they seem to be concerned such add ons are not poart of the game.

Still, to each their own.

Yes .

Anyway I don't think it would change many things to have better regens at the beginning. First because it is something coded, so overall it should stay all the same, it might compensate between players, or along years (a better pool this year, a lower next year). And as you said, even with regens looking good or promising, it will never guarantee they will effectively end wonderkid and later world class. So what's the point ?

What I mean is that I don't trust in youth anymore, as without their CA, I feel there is no way at all to detect the true future stars . Please correct me if I am wrong and state how you do. I'd rather buy them once they are 18/19, when I can be sure they will be stars through their ratings.

A person WILL get more enjoyment from the game in 'going by the book' (not using add ons, reloads etc) and defeating the AI than by the hollow feeling that will almost certainly come with knowing you haven't done it as the developers of the game intended.

As the developes intended? There's a player search feature, should it be used by everyone and if someone doesn't use it because they think it's unrealistic are they not playing it right and will they not enjoy it as much? There is no right way of playing FM, you seem to be missing this point.

If we were meant to have a FMRTE and Scout WITH the game, I am sure SI would have put one in officially for us to use as part of the game. The fact they haven't says that as far as they seem to be concerned such add ons are not poart of the game.

Yet they provide an editor that allows you to make all those changes before you start a game. Perhaps SI don't see the point in including an FMRTE-esque feature because FMScout already do it very well.

Not to mention the downloadable leagues, these don't come with the game so by your logic playing one of these leagues isn't playing the game the way it is supposed to be played because the developers obviously don't think it should be part of the game.

I'm not having a go, i'm just pointing out that there is no right or wrong way to play the game, so all this "hollow feeling" stuff is nonsense.

As the developes intended? There's a player search feature, should it be used by everyone and if someone doesn't use it because they think it's unrealistic are they not playing it right and will they not enjoy it as much? There is no right way of playing FM, you seem to be missing this point.

Yet they provide an editor that allows you to make all those changes before you start a game. Perhaps SI don't see the point in including an FMRTE-esque feature because FMScout already do it very well.

Not to mention the downloadable leagues, these don't come with the game so by your logic playing one of these leagues isn't playing the game the way it is supposed to be played because the developers obviously don't think it should be part of the game.

I'm not having a go, i'm just pointing out that there is no right or wrong way to play the game, so all this "hollow feeling" stuff is nonsense.

The main feature of the editor with the game IS in fact the ability to create custom leagues, so that IS something the developers intended, and it is hardly cheating is it to lower the structure in an existing league or create a league in a country where one doesn't exist.

As for the scout/fmrte, they are not officially SI releases, they are ONLY designed to help the human player get the edge over the AI. Has anyone ever used FMRTE to lower the stats of their players and then have a SERIOUS go at the game rather than some kind of experimental go ? Yes the editor in game can alter player stats before the start of the season, but as anyone will tell you, altering stats is cheating.

Would you use the scout add on to look for the best players, and then put them in another team's squad ?

IMO the way that SI have done the scouts at the moment is one of the best features in the game, in that they each come with some knowledge based on their experiences, and the more you sign for your team, the more players it will open up in the search. That IMO is the way that SI intend scouting to be utilised, not by some add on that lays it all on a plate for you.

Yes the editor in game can alter player stats before the start of the season, but as anyone will tell you, altering stats is cheating.

Big deal. Which is more 'realistic' - that perhaps the researchers have underestimated the ability of a couple of my team's youth players (IMHO, of course), or that by the second season I can exploit the transfer market to have signed Aguero, Pato, Gourcuff, Lukaku and Di Maria? I'd much rather boost Pacheco's CA/PA a touch and then try to play and develop him, than simply buy all the best players in the game.

Oh, and adding custom leagues is NOT the main feature of the editor - which has existed for years and has always been able to edit players and club details, but not to add custom leagues.

As the developes intended? There's a player search feature, should it be used by everyone and if someone doesn't use it because they think it's unrealistic are they not playing it right and will they not enjoy it as much? There is no right way of playing FM, you seem to be missing this point.

Yet they provide an editor that allows you to make all those changes before you start a game. Perhaps SI don't see the point in including an FMRTE-esque feature because FMScout already do it very well.

Not to mention the downloadable leagues, these don't come with the game so by your logic playing one of these leagues isn't playing the game the way it is supposed to be played because the developers obviously don't think it should be part of the game.

I'm not having a go, i'm just pointing out that there is no right or wrong way to play the game, so all this "hollow feeling" stuff is nonsense.

Every team in the real world with a little bit of creativity has a Search option. Even Kortrijk bought a player just using google. Real life scouts have player search databases or connections. I'm coaching a youth team right now in real life. And I have also a sort of mental database. I go to the streets and convince youth to play with a real club. So if the club would ask me. Do you know some good players. I can name up players. Thats the search button with my team irl. So if telford has 4 scouts and other members. All their player knowledge combined would be the search option. That's why Fm has attribute masking.

Big deal. Which is more 'realistic' - that perhaps the researchers have underestimated the ability of a couple of my team's youth players (IMHO, of course), or that by the second season I can exploit the transfer market to have signed Aguero, Pato, Gourcuff, Lukaku and Di Maria? I'd much rather boost Pacheco's CA/PA a touch and then try to play and develop him, than simply buy all the best players in the game.

Oh, and adding custom leagues is NOT the main feature of the editor - which has existed for years and has always been able to edit players and club details, but not to add custom leagues.

Your statement is still unrealistic, what about the researcher's underestmating the abilities of the opposition's players too ?

Exploit the transfer market. Exactly, any exploitation is a cheat.

And i think you will find that the main feature and selling point of THIS year's editor (and also one of FM2010 itself) is in fact the ability to add custom leagues, i have even read that statement somewhere. The ability to take a structure in a country down to an undreamed of level is many a fanboy's dream come true.

The main feature of the editor with the game IS in fact the ability to create custom leagues, so that IS something the developers intended, and it is hardly cheating is it to lower the structure in an existing league or create a league in a country where one doesn't exist.

You've missed my point though, that example obviously isn't cheating, but it's also an area of the game that SI don't offer in the standalone game, so by your logic it is not how the game shoukld be played.

You haven't once answered my question about how the game should be played btw and you still haven't addressed the fact that there are various different styles of play, so how can there be a right way?

I don't get all this FMRTE chat, i'm not talking about it and i'm not talking about the OP, i'm talking about your assertion that there is a right way of playing the game, which I completely disgree with.

Your statement is still unrealistic, what about the researcher's underestmating the abilities of the opposition's players too ?

Exploit the transfer market. Exactly, any exploitation is a cheat.

And i think you will find that the main feature and selling point of THIS year's editor (and also one of FM2010 itself) is in fact the ability to add custom leagues, i have even read that statement somewhere. The ability to take a structure in a country down to an undreamed of level is many a fanboy's dream come true.

And it's unrealistic to expect that I watch the reserve or youth games of every club to the extent I watch those of my own team; I can think Pacheco is underrated, I have no idea on the accuracy of assessment of Sunderland's U18s, and no intention of trawling through every club to see that they all have a 'fair' distribution of talent (which would itself be unrealistic).

Any of this only becomes 'cheating' if you try to gain some advantage or prestige by it - and that doesn't really include over the AI. The AI is a tool for my enjoyment of a game. It needs to be good enough, and bug-free enough, to pose some degree of challenge. Though unrealistic, and not how I want to play, it's not cheating for someone to buy all the best players: the game lets them do that and a 'dream team' may be what they get fun out of. That's fine. If that spoils my enjoyment of the game, I don't do it. The game developers provide an editor which lets me tweak some youngsters, up or down, for my enjoyment and to fit my way of playing the game. The 'difficulty' setting of this game is whatever the player wants it to be; setting their own goals and expectations, and being as tough (realistic) or flexible (unrealistic) as they feel fit in the restrictions they impose on themselves.

i'd consider it cheating, and i'd consider looking at PA/CA cheating as well. But its your game so as long as you don't mind enjoy it and play however you like.

Exactly this, just gotta laugh at those who 'tell you how you should play' when its your bloody game!

Playing in God mode in a shooter is the same thing. But it's your game. It's a single player game so you don't harm anyone.

To be honest I don't see why you have to come and ask, it is obviously cheating as you are reloading the game to better your own team and not taking the hand that you are dealt. Saying that at the end of the day the choice is yours, if you can deal with knowing what you did then do it. It is not cheating on the level of giving yourself tonnes of cash or changing player stat's, PA's and CA's.