Gardening Leave - should it be included?

This is to stop managers taking away tactics, or club secrets and making what they know obsolete to any rivals.

If the board sack a manager, or you, do you think that gardening leave should be included?

so you still are the manager of the club but you have no say in what the club does for 6 weeks or something.

Then and only then can take on another job.

Currently I asked for a new stadium at Atletico Madrid and I gave the board the ultimatum (wanted to leave anyway so went out as a martyr ) so anyway my desk was cleared out that day) The next day I got the Real Madrid job.

That would never happen in real life.

So just wondering if everyone else would agree that the Gardening Leave should be included in the game?

I take it the Phil Brown sacking has brought this on?

I don't think Phil Brown had anything to do with me being sacked at Atletico Madrid?

I did see that this morning, but this happened to me in the game last night. So of course it got me thinking.

This is how clubs operate though. So it should be in the game. I couldn't believe it when I was given the Real Madrid the very next day.

Just thought it was silly.

I thought that gardening leave could only be implemented if a person left despite their employers wishes, or by mutual consent before the end of contract. Anyway Phil Brown as far as I can see from the reports is still an employee of Hull City (i.e. they are still paying him) but that he has been relieved of his duties as manager.

Yes i think it should be included, as it simulates real life. It would have to be linked to length left on contract. (isn't gardening leave just serving out your official notice period?)

What should be the benefit of that? Not a big issue irl and just a nuisance in the game if implemented.

I don't know how it would be a nuisance in the game? You could still take over a managerial position at another club, but just not until your notice with your club has expired.

It sort of makes sense for the game to work like that. Instead of walking from job to job. I think it's silly the way it works now. I went from At Madrid to R.Madrid in one day.

It just wouldn't happen really.

Yes i do mentioned it before

I don't think it would add anything to the game. It may be more realistic but I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to wait 6 weeks before I could get another job. This is one of those times where fun should come before realism.

The whole reason of gardening leave is to help the club avoid costly severance payments and as the money we earn in our FM careers is just a number, then it doesn't really matter.

Say you are on gardening leave and a job come us that you're interested in. You can't take that job as your still technically employed. The result is you quit your 'job' anyway to hopefully take up another role at another club.

from me

The whole reason of gardening leave is to help the club avoid costly severance payments and as the money we earn in our FM careers is just a number, then it doesn't really matter.

No it's not? It has nothing to do with severance payments. It's to do with protecting the clubs tactics and inside info.

If Brown was to take the job at Portsmouth and they play Hull next week the interim manager wouldn't have enough time to change tactics before the game. So Brown would have the upperhand in the game knowing exactly how they play.

That's why gardening leave is used. It has nothing to do with payments, severance or anyother pay related matters.

Say you are on gardening leave and a job come us that you're interested in. You can't take that job as your still technically employed. The result is you quit your 'job' anyway to hopefully take up another role at another club.

You can take any job you like, you have to give notice when leaving a job. And most jobs will either let you sever straight away or wait the mandatory time. Some people in a job for many years have to give up to 2 months notice.

It's probably different when you're on contract. Some people can buy out their contracts etc. It depends on the terms of the contract though.

from me

I don't know what to say to that.

The whole point of the gardening leave being included in the game would be to make it more realistic.

You shouldn't be able to walk out of a club and be manager of the biggest rival the next day.

The board should be issuing measures to ensure it doesn't happen.

Here read this http://www.insmallprint.co.uk/resigning-gardening-leave.html

Harry Redknapp at Pompey and Soton springs to mind

The whole point of the gardening leave being included in the game would be to make it more realistic.

As I said above though, realism doesn't always equal fun.

The whole reason of gardening leave is to help the club avoid costly severance payments and as the money we earn in our FM careers is just a number, then it doesn't really matter.

Say you are on gardening leave and a job come us that you're interested in. You can't take that job as your still technically employed. The result is you quit your 'job' anyway to hopefully take up another role at another club.

from me

The game should recognise your on gardening leave and any contract offers would reflect this. So if your dream job was offered you could accept it but not start untill the your leave ends.

Admittedly this would add realism so normally I'd be all for it, but what am I sposed to do for 6 weeks? This time for me fun wins, so no gardening leave please!

It may well make the game more realistic, but what would it add to the game? Absolutely nothing.

Well if you're getting sacked then you're getting sacked. It would add nothing except the laws of the country that you're in.

I think the board should be able to put you on gardening leave. You could go on holiday for the 6 weeks or whatever the time is, if you wanted? It takes about 5 minutes. Up to you what you do when on Gardening Leave, really.

But it certainly wouldn't take anything away from the game.

It may well make the game more realistic, but what would it add to the game? Absolutely nothing.

I may well make the game more realistic...

but what would it add to the game

Absolutely nothing - oh wait it would add realism

Well if you're getting sacked then you're getting sacked. It would add nothing except the laws of the country that you're in.

I think the board should be able to put you on gardening leave. You could go on holiday for the 6 weeks or whatever the time is, if you wanted? It takes about 5 minutes. Up to you what you do when on Gardening Leave, really.

But it certainly wouldn't take anything away from the game.

well you probably started the game with international rep or have aquired this over the seasons, and if you have done well and a job is available why shouldnt u get it the next day.

Good for realism, bad for fun.

I think it would add more fun to it.

How? Holiday for 6 weeks rather than managing again?

well you probably started the game with international rep or have aquired this over the seasons, and if you have done well and a job is available why shouldnt u get it the next day.

Because you should have to serve out notice from you club, or the board could put you on gardening leave, which is what happens in real life.

It's not rocket science, a club wouldn't want their manager taking over a rival club the day after they are sacked. That's why gardening leave is used.

And I think it would add more fun to the game. Yeh you might love to have that Real Madrid job, but you're on Gardening Leave so can't take it up.

At the moment it's just pick a club and you're the manager and that's it.

Far too easy.

I was Leeds manager for 6 months and I was linked the Juventus job (2nd in Serie A and I started as a nobody).

Ridiculous.

Just add a bit of realism. Board puts you on Gardening Leave for 6 weeks.

How? Holiday for 6 weeks rather than managing again?

Part of the game. You miss out because you were either a bad manager or the club wanted you out for whatever reason.

No it's not? It has nothing to do with severance payments. It's to do with protecting the clubs tactics and inside info.

If Brown was to take the job at Portsmouth and they play Hull next week the interim manager wouldn't have enough time to change tactics before the game. So Brown would have the upperhand in the game knowing exactly how they play.

That's why gardening leave is used. It has nothing to do with payments, severance or anyother pay related matters.

Granted, it is also to protect certain things like you say, but do you not think that avoiding compensation is perhaps a part of it aswell?

The whole point of the gardening leave being included in the game would be to make it more realistic.

You shouldn't be able to walk out of a club and be manager of the biggest rival the next day.

The board should be issuing measures to ensure it doesn't happen.

Which is fine, but players dying etc are part of football. Should they also be included on the basis that it is realistic?

The game should recognise your on gardening leave and any contract offers would reflect this. So if your dream job was offered you could accept it but not start untill the your leave ends.

What would I do for 6 weeks?

I'm just sticking up for Gardening Leave to be included because everyone else is against it. Some people are against it because they didn't know what it really was. So I'm sticking to having it included. Tooth and nail

Granted, it is also to protect certain things like you say, but do you not think that avoiding compensation is perhaps a part of it aswell?

It has nothing to do with compensation whatsoever.

Which is fine, but players dying etc are part of football. Should they also be included on the basis that it is realistic?

I don't think implying a real player dies in the game. The players in real life might find that disturbing. I don't think anything disturbing should be included in a game. Especially a 10 year old managing Real Madrid and news comes up that C.Ronaldo has died. I think that would just upset a lot of people.

So no.

What would I do for 6 weeks?

Whatever you want, look for another job? It doesn't have to be 6 weeks. I just pulled that number out of a hat.

But you know, you shouldn't be walking into a job. That's not how football works, sometimes.

Digression of the board and all that. It wouldn't happen all the time, but from the odd board decision or something.

No it's not? It has nothing to do with severance payments. It's to do with protecting the clubs tactics and inside info.

If Brown was to take the job at Portsmouth and they play Hull next week the interim manager wouldn't have enough time to change tactics before the game. So Brown would have the upperhand in the game knowing exactly how they play.

That's why gardening leave is used. It has nothing to do with payments, severance or anyother pay related matters.

You can take any job you like, you have to give notice when leaving a job. And most jobs will either let you sever straight away or wait the mandatory time. Some people in a job for many years have to give up to 2 months notice.

It's probably different when you're on contract. Some people can buy out their contracts etc. It depends on the terms of the contract though.

I don't know what to say to that.

The whole point of the gardening leave being included in the game would be to make it more realistic.

You shouldn't be able to walk out of a club and be manager of the biggest rival the next day.

The board should be issuing measures to ensure it doesn't happen.

Eh...that's not the point of garden leave! And Phil Brown won't walk into another job in the next few days even if he had left Hull.

Garden leave happens when you resign from a company and they make you serve out your official notice period - but you don't actually go to work. You do however, have to be availabe to work during your normal hours - in the event of you being called back in to work.

I was on garden leave once - for two weeks - it was great.

Eh...that's not the point of garden leave! And Phil Brown won't walk into another job in the next few days even if he had left Hull.

Garden leave happens when you resign from a company and they make you serve out your official notice period - but you don't actually go to work. You do however, have to be availabe to work during your normal hours - in the event of you being called back in to work.

I was on garden leave once - for two weeks - it was great.

Here read this http://www.insmallprint.co.uk/resigning-gardening-leave.html

I know what gardening leave is. And it is to protect against you joining a rival company so that by the time you actually start working for them after serving your notice that your information is obsolete.

There are other alternate reasons for gardening leave -

Discipline and waiting a decision

Between projects

Presence being a hindrance to the running of the company

It has nothing to do with anything else, and certainly not a cop out of any compensation.

The terms of your Gardening Leave are hammered out between you and your employee.

I was Leeds manager for 6 months and I was linked the Juventus job (2nd in Serie A and I started as a nobody).

Ridiculous.

Just add a bit of realism. Board puts you on Gardening Leave for 6 weeks.

Why would the board put you on gardening leave for being linked with a job? In that case I'd never manage my current team as I'm being linked in the press with every non Premier League post in the UK. The board sack you the instant you apply for another post in my experience, and have brought in a replacement within a week. I was actually linked with the Portsmouth job in the first season when I was in the BSS, they gave it to Heather Rabbatts one of their youth coaches so they were obviously desperate but I was never actually approached.

Gardening Leave isn't really adding a lot ot the game and if it prevents you getting a job it sucks fun out of the game. I don't want to have to spend six weeks on Gardening Leave miss out on some vacant posts and then spend a season or more on holiday waiting for a new job. It would be realistic but it would be boring.

I agree with Neji here. The game is supposed to be fun and therefore we should be able to walk into a new job the day after being sacked if we want. You do know that you can just put yourself on gardening leave right?? Just don't accept a job for however long you fell is right.

Why would the board put you on gardening leave for being linked with a job? In that case I'd never manage my current team as I'm being linked in the press with every non Premier League post in the UK. The board sack you the instant you apply for another post in my experience, and have brought in a replacement within a week. I was actually linked with the Portsmouth job in the first season when I was in the BSS, they gave it to Heather Rabbatts one of their youth coaches so they were obviously desperate but I was never actually approached.

Gardening Leave isn't really adding a lot ot the game and if it prevents you getting a job it sucks fun out of the game. I don't want to have to spend six weeks on Gardening Leave miss out on some vacant posts and then spend a season or more on holiday waiting for a new job. It would be realistic but it would be boring.

I think you just took what I said out of context. I'm just saying how easy it is to walk out of one job and into another one. I had said I was interested in the Juventus job the board probably would have told me to leave my job. (It's happened before). Then I get offered the Juve job.

This has happened before by the way. From Notts Co. to Juventus, many games ago. I declared interest in the job and was ousted. But if the idea of being put on gardening leave while playing the game had come up, then I might have been a bit more coy about approaching the job.

I agree with Neji here. The game is supposed to be fun and therefore we should be able to walk into a new job the day after being sacked if we want. You do know that you can just put yourself on gardening leave right?? Just don't accept a job for however long you fell is right.

I don't self-impose punishments on myself?

The game is fun, it would be more fun with gardening leave.

I know what gardening leave is. And it is to protect against you joining a rival company so that by the time you actually start working for them after serving your notice that your information is obsolete.

There are other alternate reasons for gardening leave -

Discipline and waiting a decision

Between projects

Presence being a hindrance to the running of the company

It has nothing to do with anything else, and certainly not a cop out of any compensation.

The terms of your Gardening Leave are hammered out between you and your employee.

This is all true yes...

"If Brown was to take the job at Portsmouth and they play Hull next week the interim manager wouldn't have enough time to change tactics before the game. So Brown would have the upperhand in the game knowing exactly how they play."

The interim manager would change tactics - that's not why Phil Brown is on garden leave.

In fact, out of all teh sackings in th Uk this season, tell me how many managers have been on garden leave. In fact, let's just say the EPL over the past 2 or 3 seasons - how many?

Ince, Scolari, Ramos, Megson just to name a couple. DId any of them have garden leave?

It's not that common.

It would be more fun with gardening leave.

In your opinion. Many people in this thread have different opinions. Try to see it from their point instead of sticking to your guns so fiercely

If I got put on gardening leave on the game I'd probably just quit and do something else because I know I would have to sit there on holiday for 15 minutes before I can do anything again.

It must be a tiny number of managers who get gardening leave tbf.

In your opinion. Many people in this thread have different opinions. Try to see it from their point instead of sticking to your guns so fiercely

If I got put on gardening leave on the game I'd probably just quit and do something else because I know I would have to sit there on holiday for 15 minutes before I can do anything again.

And this is the crux of my point aswell. 6 weeks could well be a figure plucked out of thin air, but it could alse be a realistic timeframe where you just sit there and do nothing.

And the "neighs" have it.

Not a big issue if its left out imo...

In your opinion. Many people in this thread have different opinions. Try to see it from their point instead of sticking to your guns so fiercely

If I got put on gardening leave on the game I'd probably just quit and do something else because I know I would have to sit there on holiday for 15 minutes before I can do anything again.

You probably play for hours, so 15 minutes out of the what, 3 or 4 hours you play a day? Or even 6 or 7 at weekends?

That's a very small percentage of your playing time. A bit of a "punishment" for being a bad manager and being sacked.

But whatever if people don't want it then forget about it.

I thought it would be a good idea. Seems that people that don't even understand the concept don't want it. So it's probably best to leave it out.

Seems that people that don't even understand the concept don't want it. So it's probably best to leave it out.

I don't think it's case of not understanding it - it's just a case of not being able to see where the fun is. Not being able to manage in a management game - no matter how short of a time - kind of defeats the point.

I tend to start unemployed at most games but I despise waiting to get a job. There isn't anything fun about it IMO.

A bit of a "punishment" for being a bad manager and being sacked.

Isn't the sack itself punishment for being a bad manager? Then you've got to worry about the drop in your reputation aswell.

Isn't gardening leave when the board are basically sorting out a pay-off to terminate your package?

It wouldn't be the most viable of options for Hull, considering their financial position, to keep Phil Brown on as an employee, without the managerial duties but still be paying him whilst they sort out a new manager.

Isn't gardening leave when the board are basically sorting out a pay-off to terminate your package?

It wouldn't be the most viable of options for Hull, considering their financial position, to keep Phil Brown on as an employee, without the managerial duties but still be paying him whilst they sort out a new manager.

Apparently gardening leave has nothing to do with financial positions.

And the "neighs" have it.

This

Only ever lead to the kind of knicker-twisting people got into over interfering chairmen when they arrived on the FM scene.

I know that financial positions have nothing to do with gardening leave, but it isn't viable to keep Phil Brown employed when he's just gonna be doing nothing. It'd be like paying Ronaldo the wage he earns at Madrid and putting him in the reserves.

What I mean is, when a board decide that its time for immediate change, as the Hull City board did, but haven't sorted the financial side of the sacking out such as the compensation/pay-off, they'd put the manager on gardening leave until that's sorted and they can terminate their contract.

Leave gardening to gardeners. This is Football Manager, nor Gardeners' Question Time!

But the whole point of gardening leave is to protect a company's position when an employee decides of his own volition to leave for a rival, or set up his own company in the same sector. The most famous case of gardening leave in football I can think of is when Kenyon left United for Chelsea and was put on gardening leave over senitive commercial infromation he could give to Chelsea re United. What is happening to Phil Brown sounds a lot closer to actions leading to a constructive dismissal IMO, which is another kettle of fish entirely.

No it's not? It has nothing to do with severance payments. It's to do with protecting the clubs tactics and inside info.

If Brown was to take the job at Portsmouth and they play Hull next week the interim manager wouldn't have enough time to change tactics before the game. So Brown would have the upperhand in the game knowing exactly how they play.

That's why gardening leave is used. It has nothing to do with payments, severance or anyother pay related matters.

You can take any job you like, you have to give notice when leaving a job. And most jobs will either let you sever straight away or wait the mandatory time. Some people in a job for many years have to give up to 2 months notice.

It's probably different when you're on contract. Some people can buy out their contracts etc. It depends on the terms of the contract though.

I don't know what to say to that.

The whole point of the gardening leave being included in the game would be to make it more realistic.

You shouldn't be able to walk out of a club and be manager of the biggest rival the next day.

The board should be issuing measures to ensure it doesn't happen.

It seems you are not very familiar with the real life legal and contractual relationship between managers and clubs.

It's basically like Simon said and if you cannot accept that and continue to mix this up with ordinary employment relationships then no founded answer will be able to please you, I'm afraid.

I'm just sticking up for Gardening Leave to be included because everyone else is against it. Some people are against it because they didn't know what it really was. So I'm sticking to having it included. Tooth and nail

Seriously stop pushing this idea forward, it's clearly realistic but it will add nothing, it's like our wages, do you want an overhaul of our "unrealistic" wages to reflect real life ?

Besides, what secrets would Atletico have ? "Secret" tactics ? Oh please, first of all you can visit their training grounds and see what they're doing, second of all, they actually PLAY in the league, so you can analyze their tactics, other than that, what on earth could a club be hiding from their so called rivals ? Potential signings ?

Also, do 6 weeks make any difference ? If you now know all of their "secrets" and "super tactics", can't you just get the Real Madrid job a bit later and STILL use that information against Atletico ? It's silly.