Receivership??? WHY???

this was the latest news i got on my clubs finances.

http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/billybonas/?action=view&current=newsitem.png

this is the state of the clubs finances

http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/billybonas/?action=view&current=PeterboroughUnited-10.png

YES, we are in the red...as we were the whole of last season and i made a 3mill profit, we WILL finish higher in league this season and i'm also playing in Europe which means extra gate receipts and prize money, so i know we will make money, FACT!

i was given £38 mill to spend and spent it, i'm within wage budget as i always am, why the panick???

deducting 10 points could cost me postion and that means less prize money

dude ur 27 million pounds in the red...and that too starting of the season...which club besides Man U and Chelsea aside can survive on that much debt Pompey got a winding order for a tax bill of 7 mill....if i was you id be thinking of looking for another job....i dont think ud be there too long...what were ur transfers like??? cause i dont really know what the financial condition was at peter... before you took over...did they have any outstanding loans or debts??? cause ur club are basically operating in money that they dont currently have...which if you ask me is unrealistic...you should not be able to be paying ur players wages...casue u dont have money...but well its a database....bunch of numbers so it doesnt matter...but i dont really see the light at the end of the tunnel for u...ull probbly go thru administration get some points docked out and all ur debts will be cleared...ive never been in a smiliar situation...but like i said earlier...save ur reputation and run...............................................as fast as u can..

As long as the club keeps making money and succeeds then you should stay away from administration and the 9 point deduction that comes with it. If you don't keep making money though then you will be screwed! Kind of reminds me of Leeds Utd a few years ago, punching above their weight, and look what happened to them!

dude ur 27 million pounds in the red...and that too starting of the season...which club besides Man U and Chelsea aside can survive on that much debt Pompey got a winding order for a tax bill of 7 mill....if i was you id be thinking of looking for another job....i dont think ud be there too long...what were ur transfers like??? cause i dont really know what the financial condition was at peter... before you took over...did they have any outstanding loans or debts??? cause ur club are basically operating in money that they dont currently have...which if you ask me is unrealistic...you should not be able to be paying ur players wages...casue u dont have money...but well its a database....bunch of numbers so it doesnt matter...but i dont really see the light at the end of the tunnel for u...ull probbly go thru administration get some points docked out and all ur debts will be cleared...ive never been in a smiliar situation...but like i said earlier...save ur reputation and run...............................................as fast as u can..

How is it unrealistic? It isn't money that "they don't have", it's a secured loan - which is essentially borrowing money against your assets.

YES, we are in the red...as we were the whole of last season and i made a 3mill profit, we WILL finish higher in league this season and i'm also playing in Europe which means extra gate receipts and prize money, so i know we will make money, FACT!

i was given £38 mill to spend and spent it, i'm within wage budget as i always am, why the panick???

deducting 10 points could cost me postion and that means less prize money

Perhaps your creditors were not as optimistic as you are? After all I'd be very worried by what is essentially a wreckless transfer budget that was given to you (not your fault) considering your club's finances. How high are your interest repayments? Judging by your income last month you probably wouldn't of made enough to cover the interest?

thats not a secured loan...its operating in -20 million.....that means hes basically operating in negative numbers....how could that be a secured loan...well it maybe when he purchases players...but not regarding paying players wages...or NFCosts...i dont think the board automatically takes a loannce ur in the red...cause if they did ....they wouldnt need to go into administration

Maybe you shouldn't have spent that 38 million

thats not a secured loan...its operating in -20 million.....that means hes basically operating in negative numbers....how could that be a secured loan...well it maybe when he purchases players...but not regarding paying players wages...or NFCosts...i dont think the board automatically takes a loannce ur in the red...cause if they did ....they wouldnt need to go into administration

The board automatically take the loan when the club goes into admin, and that's the reason that no club can ever liquidate in the game.

thats not a secured loan...its operating in -20 million.....that means hes basically operating in negative numbers....how could that be a secured loan...well it maybe when he purchases players...but not regarding paying players wages...or NFCosts...i dont think the board automatically takes a loannce ur in the red...cause if they did ....they wouldnt need to go into administration

It's called ASSETS. The security on the loan is the stadium, the players, the identity of the club itself - which would have a value which would most likely exceed the amount owing on the loans. This is the reason that some clubs can be hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, because they have the means to repay the loan through the sale of assets should they become unable to meet their repayments (exactly how it works with home loans, if you default on your loan - the bank takes your house and sells it to get their money back).

What you don't understand is that the loans that would of been taken out at the start of the season (automatically) to cover the transfer spend, so he has enough income to pay his wages, and non-football costs, but is not making enough to meet his interest repayments (as far as i can see).

If a club is in the RED they HAVE TO of taken out a loan - there is no other way about it. The problem here is that if creditors get worried about the club becoming unable to pay their interest repayments - then they may attempt to claim and sell assets in order to recoup the amount that is owed.

The OP has 2 options; either play the season and be VERY careful with finances, and perform very well in comps. The other option is to sell some players to atleast reduce the debt.

they gave me the £38 mill looking at last seasons income and outgoings, being that if this season was identical to last we'd break even, but i said we would a) finish higher b) we are playing in europe which means more money.

yes its a risk to say the worst we will do is the same as last year but we need that risk in order to progress, when im in the championsleague at the end of the season and we are bringing in more money, will they complain...no...so they should keep the faith, last season was the clubs highest EVER finish plus i brought the FA cup too, they should realise i know what i'm doing, administration would be the only thing to stop me finishing higher.

better hope for a takeover from someone willing to help you out otherwise its going to end in a sorry state.

It's called ASSETS. The security on the loan is the stadium, the players, the identity of the club itself - which would have a value which would most likely exceed the amount owing on the loans. This is the reason that some clubs can be hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, because they have the means to repay the loan through the sale of assets should they become unable to meet their repayments (exactly how it works with home loans, if you default on your loan - the bank takes your house and sells it to get their money back).

What you don't understand is that the loans that would of been taken out at the start of the season (automatically) to cover the transfer spend, so he has enough income to pay his wages, and non-football costs, but is not making enough to meet his interest repayments (as far as i can see).

If a club is in the RED they HAVE TO of taken out a loan - there is no other way about it. The problem here is that if creditors get worried about the club becoming unable to pay their interest repayments - then they may attempt to claim and sell assets in order to recoup the amount that is owed.

The OP has 2 options; either play the season and be VERY careful with finances, and perform very well in comps. The other option is to sell some players to atleast reduce the debt.

I'm afraid thats not the case on this occasion.

The club haven't taken out a loan, they are simply operating with a very large overdraft (Now technically I know this is a loan but not in the same context).

@ the OP

I don't know what triggers admin within the game but you've already correctly pointed out you made a profit last season. Some further points to note though:

A) Without transfers where you made £17m profit you would have made a loss though of £14m.

B) Your income seems be much the same as last season but with prize money and the added competition it will probably increase.

C) Expenditure seems higher but with income increasing shouldn't be a problem - perhaps need to look closer at these areas to make sure.

D) You've virtually doubled your profit from transfers this season already.

So basically you need to keep making money, you seem to be on course to make a profit this season but you need to plan ahead so you continue to do so in future seasons - either through transfer profit or trying to make a smaller loss/profit without transfers.

mate, clubs will often give you way too high a transfer budget, it's dumb I know, but before you go spending it you have to look at the books. The club obviously didn't have 38M for you to spend, so you shouldn't have. Basically, the club is financially screwed because of you. Try selling off some players, othrerwise, enjoy the 9 point deduction.

I'm afraid thats not the case on this occasion.

The club haven't taken out a loan, they are simply operating with a very large overdraft (Now technically I know this is a loan but not in the same context).

^^WHS. Teams working on a negative balance might not be using secured loans. Generally the Operating costs are covered by short term loans, generally unsecured. Secured debt comes in play when long term debts are involved (New stadium etc) and Working Capital loans tend to be short term and might be unsecured. If your team is bleeding money and there are every chance that the creditors might panic and call in those loans.

mate, clubs will often give you way too high a transfer budget, it's dumb I know, but before you go spending it you have to look at the books. The club obviously didn't have 38M for you to spend, so you shouldn't have. Basically, the club is financially screwed because of you. Try selling off some players, othrerwise, enjoy the 9 point deduction.

agreed. the club should basically be giving you a negative 10 million transfer budget per year considering in game finances.

Be careful when signing players, in England in particular, when the TV money is paid in rates throughout the year, so you can easily start the season in red if you go overboard with spending.

last season was the clubs highest EVER finish .

Wouldn't that rather be a reason to be more careful as no club should seriously expect to repeat or even exceed the highest league position in club histroy?

Looking at your finances you should have spent the budget, maybe even a bit more, on 48 months instalments to create a solid financial backbone.

Being in the red by that amount is indeed worrying. Also keep in mind that insolvency means to not be able to pay your bills in any given moment. You might be able to break even again by the end of the season, but you cannot pay your bills anymore now. Which is enough to fall into receivership.

You might then argue that it should be possible to get some money for the time in between, but trust me (you really can), banks do not readily trust in the solvency of football clubs, especially not if the expected income is conditional to any kind of sporting success.

That being said, it's indeed worrying that you can go bankrupt by staying within the budgets given to you by the game. That shouldn't be possible to happen.

i should stay £20 mill in the red till the end of the season draws nearer, it wont increase and monthly incomes with cover bills, the the figure may slightly decrease buty not untill prize money is paid out.

why is it that the TV money is paid in installments when all clubs want and need money to spend in the summer, it's already a pain that players are declaring they want to leave before i get my budget for the season and miss out on some bargains, maybe this is my fault for not saving money for the end of the season? but all i do is spend what i'm given, i told them where we would finish and they gave me the bugets to achieve this, they should let me get on!

If you've bankrupted the club by overspending then it's your fault, not the board. You can't complain at them really.

And it's paid in installments because that's how it is in real life.

It's paid in installments in real life to stop clubs from going and blowing the whole lot before the season even starts. The league knows that owners can't be trusted to budget properly, and managers will just chuck the money away like you have.

I never make club go much in red just because I've been given large transfer budget. I have to take care of all the clubs finances. I am the manager, not the board...

IRL, its paid in 3 installments, the start of the season, mid season and end of season, not like in the game where its paid monthly.

Something that should be put into the game in FM11 really.

Ah, there's your problem, looking at the finances graph you don't appear to have had much more than a few mil for quite a while, if ever. Boards are sometimes idiots that give you a budget you can't actually support.I when I was at a club having been consistently challengers (and often winners) of both the league and CL, I sometimes had standard budgets of up to 150m when the balance was a little lower. Doesn't mean that when I needed to get new players in, that I wasn't careful with both budgets, as I knew that even though I did mostly have the money, if I went wild with it there wouldn't have been a few years on. I don't know what your precise balance was at the start of the season but say it was 7-8M tops (as the graph doesn't appear to show it much higher), that's not something that goes well with a 38M transfer kitty. Reminds me of a friend who was looking for january reinforcements but when I pointed out he was almost in the red, he pointed instead the much larger sum he had left in his budget as if that was the only thing that mattered, his attempts to raise more to satisfy his needs were foiled by the very low percentage he got back in his budget (and I wasn't in the least bit surprised). When you haven't got masses of money and want to make plenty of progress, you do end up having to spend whatever you can get, even if its most of your balance, but I always keep an eye on long-term financial sustainability and often check the actual balance to help plan transfer and wage spending whenever I have the luxury of doing so.

lol

Right now I'm trying my hardest to keep my Crystal Palace team in the green by pushing for the playoffs (pesky 10-point deduction).

had to release alot of staff and players to cut the sill wage bill and sell my arguably best player to Udinese to sure up some money.

I bought somebody for 875k on 42 month installments though, I had to.

Were now just about making profit though, luckily in Feb most of our high interest loans were finally paid off.

i understand thats how its done IRL but its pooh they have again just put another £4 mill in they pulled form somewhere to put us now £16 mill in the red, each month the figure is decreasing plus after each game we are setting records for gate receipts...a future worry is because of there £8 mill input my profit will be £8 mill higher at the end of the season and i can see a £50 mill budget coming my way especially as i'm looking to finish in top 4 how can i resist spending?

how can i resist spending?

Just pretend your success would be even more rewarding if you haven't spent that much.

... it's indeed worrying that you can go bankrupt by staying within the budgets given to you by the game. That shouldn't be possible to happen.

I'm not aware that the managers at Leeds, Portsmouth, Crystal Palace etc, were spending outside of what the board was allowed, but they all went into administration. Some boards will take more risks, or just not realise the risks they are taking, there are in game attributes to represent this.

this post is like an advert for a cashcard. They would love you at any high street bank with this example of managing your money!

I'm not aware that the managers at Leeds, Portsmouth, Crystal Palace etc, were spending outside of what the board was allowed, but they all went into administration. Some boards will take more risks, or just not realise the risks they are taking, there are in game attributes to represent this.

erm.. Leeds, did you see how much O'Leary spent?? He was signing 4 players per position at one stage. Portsmouth did the same hence the quickfire sale and Crystal Palace were overpaying in wages after being in the Premiership a few seasons back. So yes, the manager in each example overspent and couldnt manage financing properly, though this you could blame on the board.

erm.. Leeds, did you see how much O'Leary spent?? He was signing 4 players per position at one stage. Portsmouth did the same hence the quickfire sale and Crystal Palace were overpaying in wages after being in the Premiership a few seasons back. So yes, the manager in each example overspent and couldnt manage financing properly, though this you could blame on the board.

That's the point - these managers were spending with board approval - which contradicts the original quote "you shouldn't go backrupt if you follow the board reccomendations". I'm pointing out that following the board doesn't ensure you won't have financial issues as in the examples I mentioned.

I'm not aware that the managers at Leeds, Portsmouth, Crystal Palace etc, were spending outside of what the board was allowed, but they all went into administration. Some boards will take more risks, or just not realise the risks they are taking, there are in game attributes to represent this.

Leeds and Portsmouth were most definately over spending. Palace I feel a bit sorry for as a creditor to the club basically decided he wanted his money back straight away which left Simon Jordan very little time to find another creditor. It was the same situation at Watford earlier in the season only they managed to find someone to put the cash in. No, it wasn't Elton John

Leeds and Portsmouth were most definately over spending. Palace I feel a bit sorry for as a creditor to the club basically decided he wanted his money back straight away which left Simon Jordan very little time to find another creditor. It was the same situation at Watford earlier in the season only they managed to find someone to put the cash in. No, it wasn't Elton John

I don't believe this, it would be very hard to spend the clubs money without the boards permission. It's not like someone gives the manager a chequebook and he goes and writes a cheque for £20M everytime he buys a player. It's the boards being irresponsible, the managers just working with the budget he is given.

I don't believe this, it would be very hard to spend the clubs money without the boards permission. It's not like someone gives the manager a chequebook and he goes and writes a cheque for £20M everytime he buys a player. It's the boards being irresponsible, the managers just working with the budget he is given.

Did I say it was a managers fault?

I think you'll find that the manager doesn't get a budget as such. It's more a case of the manager says they want this player and that player and the board will go and do the business. Hence it is the boards decision. Ultimately over-spending WAS the problem at Leeds and IS the problem at Portsmouth.

I was merely pointing out the situation at Palace is different.

Leeds and Portsmouth were most definately over spending. Palace I feel a bit sorry for as a creditor to the club basically decided he wanted his money back straight away which left Simon Jordan very little time to find another creditor. It was the same situation at Watford earlier in the season only they managed to find someone to put the cash in. No, it wasn't Elton John

Did I say it was a managers fault?

I think you'll find that the manager doesn't get a budget as such. It's more a case of the manager says they want this player and that player and the board will go and do the business. Hence it is the boards decision. Ultimately over-spending WAS the problem at Leeds and IS the problem at Portsmouth.

I was merely pointing out the situation at Palace is different.

Ok - I guess my point is earlier someone said - if you only spend the budget you shouldn't get in trouble - which clearly isn't true.

Ok - I guess my point is earlier someone said - if you only spend the budget you shouldn't get in trouble - which clearly isn't true.

Yeah, that was the OP I think and whoever it was he has been told that his statement was wrong

I think that a massive part of the fun of the game is to be able to deal with your own transfers. Take that out of the game and some of the fun disappears. How interesting can it be to let your board do all the negotiating? Not very at a guess, even if it is the more realistic way of doing things.

People have a licence in game to deal with the financing and buying/selling of players, something a manager would very rarely get IRL. People need to realise that keeping the fun factor means being a bit more watchful of the finances as they haven't got someone over their shoulders as in real life.

end of season finances

http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/billybonas/?action=view&current=PeterboroughUnited-12.png

club put £12 mill in so would have been in profit by maybe £3 mill, did qualify for champs league so we'll see what sort of budget i'm given this season, though i would like a new stadium

I hate administrators they are the bane of the game.

I had several decent offers for my higher paid players that were all rejected then the bloody administrator released them in April (in the middle of a relegation dogfight) and I was left with nothing in the way of talent and went down

I wish that clubs could become wound up like in real life and then have to start again in the bottom leagues.

they have done what i expected....

http://s806.photobucket.com/albums/yy342/billybonas/?action=view&current=PeterboroughUnited-loadscash.png

i need to spend spend spend