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View Full Version : The way substitutions work in FM08 are a joke



monkeymcbain
10-01-2008, 05:57
I’ve had 2 problems with it.

1). I made a substitution between two defenders. While it was waiting for a stop in play to make the change, one of my strikers got injured. This was the stop in play, and without asking if I’d like to cancel to substitution now I had an injury, it made it and then took the injured players off. As it was my last change, I had to finish the game with 10 men.

2). I was 4-2 up away from home with 15 mins left. I swapped one midfielder for another, and the break in play was the other team scoring to make it 4-3. I would have liked to have taken a striker off at that point for a defender, but again it made the change without asking me and that was my final substation. I went on to draw 4-4.

It should ask you if you want to cancel the sub you’ve made if things like a goal, injury or red card happen because these are major incidents that affect your tactics, unlike a free kick or throw in. And also that would make it more realistic too.

monkeymcbain
10-01-2008, 05:57
I’ve had 2 problems with it.

1). I made a substitution between two defenders. While it was waiting for a stop in play to make the change, one of my strikers got injured. This was the stop in play, and without asking if I’d like to cancel to substitution now I had an injury, it made it and then took the injured players off. As it was my last change, I had to finish the game with 10 men.

2). I was 4-2 up away from home with 15 mins left. I swapped one midfielder for another, and the break in play was the other team scoring to make it 4-3. I would have liked to have taken a striker off at that point for a defender, but again it made the change without asking me and that was my final substation. I went on to draw 4-4.

It should ask you if you want to cancel the sub you’ve made if things like a goal, injury or red card happen because these are major incidents that affect your tactics, unlike a free kick or throw in. And also that would make it more realistic too.

bod1035
10-01-2008, 12:00
I beleive this is a good point as it can take up to 5 or 6 mins sometimes for your subs or tactical changes to take effect. It would not be a bad idea if while the tatical changes are in limbo waiting for a break in play, if something major happend like an injury or sending off you could ajust your changes just like they do in real life. http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

dean66683
10-01-2008, 12:08
both valid and agreed.

grahamf
10-01-2008, 12:14
I had a pending substitution earlier, and one of the players scheduled to be subbed got sent off for a second yellow. The game cancelled both my changes and went to the tactics screen to let me make a change.

So it seems FM is smart enough to let you make a change so long as it's the player coming off who gets his marching orders.

Starr_Man5
10-01-2008, 12:17
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by monkeymcbain:
I’ve had 2 problems with it.

1). I made a substitution between two defenders. While it was waiting for a stop in play to make the change, one of my strikers got injured. This was the stop in play, and without asking if I’d like to cancel to substitution now I had an injury, it made it and then took the injured players off. As it was my last change, I had to finish the game with 10 men.

2). I was 4-2 up away from home with 15 mins left. I swapped one midfielder for another, and the break in play was the other team scoring to make it 4-3. I would have liked to have taken a striker off at that point for a defender, but again it made the change without asking me and that was my final substation. I went on to draw 4-4.

It should ask you if you want to cancel the sub you’ve made if things like a goal, injury or red card happen because these are major incidents that affect your tactics, unlike a free kick or throw in. And also that would make it more realistic too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point, it's a wonder this hasn't been brought before SI yet, hopefully you've brought it to their attention as it would certainly strengthen the game. http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

bod1035
10-01-2008, 12:21
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by grahamf:
I had a pending substitution earlier, and one of the players scheduled to be subbed got sent off for a second yellow. The game cancelled both my changes and went to the tactics screen to let me make a change.

So it seems FM is smart enough to let you make a change so long as it's the player coming off who gets his marching orders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats all fine and good, so why cant it do this for any other scenario.

fatboyjohnmulhern
10-01-2008, 12:34
i dont like the subs stuff this year either, BUT i think its the most realistic it has evevevevevevevrvrvrvrvvevvrrvvrer been!

sirdez24
10-01-2008, 12:43
For all the other complaints, one of worst and most unrealistic parts of the game is the fact you can't alter tactical changes after clicking 'confirm'.

Bongo-Bongo
10-01-2008, 12:49
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:
For all the other complaints, one of worst and most unrealistic parts of the game is the fact you can't alter tactical changes after clicking 'confirm'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can, although it's not clear. Click on your team name in the scoreboard up the top of the screen and you will be taken to the tactics screen, allowing you to make changes.

bod1035
10-01-2008, 12:50
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:
For all the other complaints, one of worst and most unrealistic parts of the game is the fact you can't alter tactical changes after clicking 'confirm'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Spot on. I like new features in every fm game, but sometimes its the refinement of the existing features that can make it a better game, and this is one such area that needs refining.

bod1035
10-01-2008, 12:56
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bongo-Bongo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:
For all the other complaints, one of worst and most unrealistic parts of the game is the fact you can't alter tactical changes after clicking 'confirm'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can, although it's not clear. Click on your team name in the scoreboard up the top of the screen and you will be taken to the tactics screen, allowing you to make changes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just tryed this and once i had made sub would not let me changew it.Will try again though

bod1035
10-01-2008, 13:14
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bod1035:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bongo-Bongo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:
For all the other complaints, one of worst and most unrealistic parts of the game is the fact you can't alter tactical changes after clicking 'confirm'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can, although it's not clear. Click on your team name in the scoreboard up the top of the screen and you will be taken to the tactics screen, allowing you to make changes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just tryed this and once i had made sub would not let me changew it.Will try again though </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are correct. The only problem is that u need to be watching the match on a slow speed or full match which i have not the time to do. It would be alot more simple if it jumped to the tatics screen if an injury etc happend in all match views.

Reider84
10-01-2008, 13:38
Yes this is annoying, once you have confirmed your subs you should be able to cancel these changes up to the point that they are actually made.

Often when you are waiting for a substitute to come on something will happen like another injury or most likely another goal and you probably won't want to continue with the original substitution.

Neji
10-01-2008, 13:49
I think that was the same problem listed twice really http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Its a good point and one I've seen brought up a couple of times in the past few weeks. I think it will be changed for FM09.

gooner01
10-01-2008, 14:09
if a player gets injured when you have just made your last sub (but he has not come on yet), it will take you back to the tactics screen showing that you have made all your subs. but click cancel to discard your sub then go back to the tactics and sub the injured player. simple.

bod1035
10-01-2008, 14:16
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gooner01:
if a player gets injured when you have just made your last sub (but he has not come on yet), it will take you back to the tactics screen showing that you have made all your subs. but click cancel to discard your sub then go back to the tactics and sub the injured player. simple. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But what if a player has not been injured and u want to change your tatics

gooner01
10-01-2008, 14:21
iv not actually tried but i guess it would still be the same, as long as all your subs have'nt come on to the pitch. i still agree with it being frustating though.

bod1035
10-01-2008, 14:22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gooner01:
iv not actually tried but i guess it would still be the same, as long as all your subs have'nt come on to the pitch. i still agree with it being frustating though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is the point, its not the same

BobbaW
10-01-2008, 17:06
It is frustrating. And it's the same with the tactics. It takes so long for the tactics to get implemented that often, by the time the tactics have been adjusted the reason for the original change is redundant.

AndyPass
10-01-2008, 17:13
Agree 100%.

I've lost count of the number of times I've submitted a request to substitute a striker, only for him to score before he's withdrawn, and then immediately get taken off!

Very frustrating as you'd obviously want to keep him on for a few more minutes.

It's also frustrating if you have to wait 5 or 6 minutes for it to take place as I refuse to believe that the ball has not gone out of play once in that time.

A better way might be to tell a player to 'warm-up' instead of being substituted. Then when the ball has gone out of play to allow you to make the change, you then have the option to decide if you want to do it, or cancel the change.

Or... while the game is continuing maybe there should be a button to click to 'cancel substitutions' in case someone is injured before it takes place?

sirdez24
10-01-2008, 17:39
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyPass:
A better way might be to tell a player to 'warm-up' instead of being substituted. Then when the ball has gone out of play to allow you to make the change, you then have the option to decide if you want to do it, or cancel the change.

Or... while the game is continuing maybe there should be a button to click to 'cancel substitutions' in case someone is injured before it takes place? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why over-complicate it? Just make the tactics screen accessible at all times, even when you are awaiting tactical changes/substitutions to take place.

sirdez24
10-01-2008, 17:40
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sirdez24:
Why over-complicate it? Just make the tactics screen accessible at all times, even when you are awaiting tactical changes/substitutions to take place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless the game makes the tactics screen unavailable after you confirm because it needs time to re-do calculations?

rinso
10-01-2008, 18:52
did ya pause the game, then make the tactical changes?? i would guess not. imho its a lot quicker making the changes if ya pause the game, and then do the subs, then restart the game... took me a while t get used to doin it, was used to the game automatically pausing when i wanted to make changes....

gonzález
10-01-2008, 19:58
I too have been able to cancel a sub when one player was injured.

Seagulls
10-01-2008, 21:08
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fatboyjohnmulhern:
i dont like the subs stuff this year either, BUT i think its the most realistic it has evevevevevevevrvrvrvrvvevvrrvvrer been! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not realism. There should be a final confirmation before the sub. I raised this in the bugs forum and was thanked for the suggestion.

The reason it is not realistic is that at a goal up or if defending a draw against a top team, I can create a sub to take off a striker for a defender. In real life if the opposing team scores before the sub has been made, the manager would cancel the sub. In FM, the sub still gets made. This has happened to me several times now. I found myself taking off a striker for a defender after going a goal down late in a cup tie away to a prem club. How is that realistic?

Rendy Pranadithya
11-01-2008, 01:53
good point, i've got a same problem..

Mark Heath
11-01-2008, 03:52
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> There should be a final confirmation before the sub. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree, there is still need of improvement in the way substitutions work as it is very frustrating for substitutions to go ahead after something in the match has changed what you wanted to do.

I would actually like to be able to specify certain times and occasions in which the game would automatically pause and take me to the tactics screen (as it currently does with injuries and red cards). The most common times I want to make tactical changes are 20 minutes before the end (bring on my subs), after a goal has been scored, and 5 minutes before the end (chase the game / waste time).

owl83
11-01-2008, 04:05
My main gripe about this is the time it takes to make tactical changes, for instance, i go 2-1 up away from home wiht 10 mins to go, i then go to the tactics to change it to a more defensive formation to see out the last 10 mins, during the wait for a break in play(my attacking tactic still in use) i concede an equaliser because men are comitted forward when i dont want them to be!!! http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

In short -

Tactical changes should be instant as they are in real life, if Sir Alex tells Rooney to drop deep to make a 5 man midfield, he does it straight away, on FM this could take 5 minutes, thats unrealistic IMO

Subs - i can understand why the break in play is required, but yes, if a major incident happens(this does work for red cards) then you should be able to change your changes.

I also dont like the cumbersome boxes that i have to press when confirming changes to tactics whilst in play. Especially when it asks me if i want to save the current tactic as its not saved - What do you mean???!!!! Its a tactic i already have saved and its not been altered throughout the entire match!!! Why on earth is it asking me that question???!!!!

andyinuk
11-01-2008, 05:31
http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

i like the new way too. But a "Cancel" button will be bloody useful.

robin_trott_hoof
11-01-2008, 06:06
I agree. And I still can't click 'confirm' to remove an injured player (green cross) from the pitch after I've used all of my subs.

gunnerfan
11-01-2008, 06:59
Being able to cancel a sub would be useful, but remember that IRL, you don't just make a substitution on the spur of the moment. A player usually spends a few minutes getting loose. If you were to get a player warmed up to go into the match IRL, and then at the last minute cancel it because the player you were planning to take off scored a goal, it would probably cause a dip in morale. Just a thought.

gonzález
11-01-2008, 07:00
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robin_trott_hoof:
I agree. And I still can't click 'confirm' to remove an injured player (green cross) from the pitch after I've used all of my subs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to drag him off, as if substituting him for anotehr player and it will aks you if you want to take him off.

robin_trott_hoof
11-01-2008, 08:36
I know. But when I do it, it removes him from the tactics screen, but I can't click confirm.

Therefore I'm stuck there unless I cancel with him running around with a little green cross in the corner of the screen.

JohnG85
11-01-2008, 08:52
The other day, I was losing a match 3-1 and for my last substitution I had it set up to take my striker off for another striker. Before the change I decided I wanted to take a midfielder off instead (but still bringing the same person on). So I clicked my team name to get into the tactics screen and hit cancel. It reversed my pending substitution. So far so good I thought. I made the revised substitution and continued play. The next break in play came when the striker who I was originally going to take off scored a goal, making me feel very pleased with my decision and thinking I might have a chance to come back into the game at 3-2 down. However, after it made the substitution I noticed he wasn't on the pitch any more. The game had taken both him and the midfielder I'd subbed off and only put the sub striker on, so I was down to 10 men! Needless to say I didn't get my equaliser...

gonzález
11-01-2008, 18:08
I find sometimes if you make a sub, don't press confirm, undo the move and make two subs, the next time you come to make a sub it says 'You may not make any more substitutions'.
However if you leave it 5 mins (match time) and try again it works.

bod1035
12-01-2008, 01:16
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gonzález:
I find sometimes if you make a sub, don't press confirm, undo the move and make two subs, the next time you come to make a sub it says 'You may not make any more substitutions'.
However if you leave it 5 mins (match time) and try again it works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The whole point of this thread is to show that changing subs or tactics during a match is flawed and needs refining.In your post u say that sometimes it works if u doont hit confirm and then go back 5 mins later match time, do you really think this is acceptable for making instant changes as a match can totally change in the space of 5 mins

DanielDK
12-01-2008, 01:32
And why can we only substitute wen we have the ball(throw in, corner, free kick) if the computer has it the we can't substitute until it's us who get the free kick, corner kick, throw in???

soundian
12-01-2008, 06:11
Substitutions: When can you retract a sub irl? Is it up to the point the board is held up? up to the point where the player leaves the pitch? Or is it as soon as you tell the 4th official you can't change? Whichever it is, the game should reflect this. Maybe it already does.
5 mins is far too long to wait imo. Looking at my match stats there's about 1 incident a minute (not counting goal kicks) when the ball is out of play. Althoguh I'm sure people can cite cases irl of refs failing to notice a sub being indicated for 5 minutes it certainly isn't common.

Tactics: tactical changes should be nearly instantaneous and happen the next time a corner/free kick/goal kick is awarded to your team, when the team will have time to get to their new positions.

George Graham
13-01-2008, 10:37
Also for some strange reason the game may allow the opposition to bring on a sub, but your sub that is pending doesnt come on.

Ruud Van Nistelrooy 774
13-01-2008, 10:49
It would be easiest to just have a cancel button in place of the making changes thing at the bottom which is a point I'm sure I've raised before. This should stop any tactical/substitute errors due to changing circumstances in the game and would mean you don't have to press a conformation each time a sub is made.

I really don't know how everyone at SI failed to see this was a problem before release and it is especially annoying as I'm fairly certain it can't be fixed in a patch.

dudester
13-01-2008, 11:12
What I would really like implemented would be to give a substitute a team talk when you decide to make a change like a striker grab us a goal a defender keep it tight etc.

Coop
13-01-2008, 12:44
I preferred the old way from FM07. I would rather the game paused and let me make tactical changes/subs.

city321
13-01-2008, 15:15
It would be could if there was always a cancel sub option as not only can a major incedent happen but human errpr making a mistake can ruin a game

nk86
13-01-2008, 15:42
i actually prefered it when you could click "tactics", it would wait for a break in play, THEN you could make an immediate substitution...

this years one is harder in that you make a decision during play and can't cancel it, whatever happens in between, its frustrating

bod1035
14-01-2008, 02:52
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dudester:
What I would really like implemented would be to give a substitute a team talk when you decide to make a change like a striker grab us a goal a defender keep it tight etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is an excellent idea http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif., you are trailing by one goal and u can tell your sub go get us point or something in that vain.

Wizard
14-01-2008, 06:27
It's not only about sub...I'd like the whole tactic change thingy reworked too...

Many times, I play 4-3-3, go one up near the 70th minute, change my tactics to more defensive...then wait...and wait...meanwhile, the opposition changes to 4-2-4, scores a goal, reverts back to 4-4-2, expressly stated to go defensive...and presto...my defensive tactics come on.. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif...

I then try to change my tactics to more offensive...click confirm...wait and wait and wait...my lads sneak a goal back through a corner...viola...my offensive tactics come on... http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Being 2-1 up, I again try to go defensive...pause the match...tweak as required, then wait...wait...wait...meanwhile, our friend goes back to the tried and tested 4-2-4...equalises, switches back to 4-4-2...and of course, my defensive tactics come on after that... http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

By which time, it's 90+2 and I cannot be bothered to change any more...

That's pretty much how it goes with this game... http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

trekman
14-01-2008, 15:32
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> i like the new way too. But a "Cancel" button will be bloody useful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If people dont like the new way things are done then they can change it and turn off the new 'match experience' or whatever its called.