It's not Holland, it's the Netherlands!!!

This is something that I realised a few months ago, but I only just thought to post here. The country listed as 'Holland' on this game is incorrect. It should be listed as the 'Netherlands' as the Netherlands is the country's official name. Holland is just two of the country's 12 provinces in north and south Holland. Here is proof: http://www.archimon.nl/general/holland.html

Anybody else thought sports interactive have taken way too long to correct this?

Well, you're right and it's quite a well known fact (not to try and make you look stupid, just saying). But in Britain there commonly reffered to as Holland, and if were going to call everyone by their proper names, Bayern Munich would have to be changed to Bayern Munchen and so on.

EDIT: I might be wrong, but I'm sure their fans often chant 'Holland, Holland', too.

Well, you're right and it's quite a well known fact (not to try and make you look stupid, just saying). But in Britain there commonly reffered to as Holland, and if were going to call everyone by their proper names, Bayern Munich would have to be changed to Bayern Munchen and so on.

EDIT: I might be wrong, but I'm sure their fans often chant 'Holland, Holland', too.

Probably because it's a bit easier to chant than 'Netherlands, Netherlands'.

Bosnia and Herzegovina vs The Democratic Republic of Congo must have some fun chanting.

Give me a 'B'!..

If their fans do indeed chant 'holland, holland', I was unaware of that and that's probably argument enough in itself for the name to stay. I was just a little bit confused as I was informed by a dutchman that some Dutch (they shouldn't even be called Dutch, that's the English getting confused hundreds of years ago) find it offensive and ignorant that we refer to their country as Holland.

This is something that I realised a few months ago, but I only just thought to post here. The country listed as 'Holland' on this game is incorrect. It should be listed as the 'Netherlands' as the Netherlands is the country's official name. Holland is just two of the country's 12 provinces in north and south Holland. Here is proof: http://www.archimon.nl/general/holland.html

Anybody else thought sports interactive have taken way too long to correct this?

Even the Dutch government are a bit in two minds about this one. They use Holland in some of their governmental department websites when referring to "the Netherlands", as in this

example:

http://www.newtoholland.nl/immigration/app/en?init=true

No wonder it's all double Dutch to me.

BILLY WRIGHT;4954859

No wonder it's all double Dutch to me.

Bah!... beat me to it,

I imagine it is given that name as it is commonly used in England, rather like Ivory Coast instead of Cote D'Ivoire.

Bah!... beat me to it,

Sorry me old Dutch

Even the Dutch government are a bit in two minds about this one. They use Holland in some of their governmental department websites when referring to "the Netherlands", as in this

example:

http://www.newtoholland.nl/immigration/app/en?init=true

No wonder it's all double Dutch to me.

Double Dutch.... didn`t take too long for someone to say that:D

I imagine it is given that name as it is commonly used in England, rather like Ivory Coast instead of Cote D'Ivoire.

Good example

Anybody else thought sports interactive have taken way too long to correct this?

If I had my pedant hat on then yes, I'd agree it should be corrected. The football team is commonly referred to in the UK as "Holland", but to refer to the entire country as "Holland" is no different to Americans referring to "England" when in actual fact they mean "United Kingdom". It's annoying, and I'm sure it would have been dealt with ages ago if it involved the UK or any of it's constituent nations.

I wonder if it's any different if you play the game in another language? As in if you play it in French does the game refer to the Dutch in there own reference to them :s

I wonder if it's any different if you play the game in another language? As in if you play it in French does the game refer to the Dutch in there own reference to them :s

I know that if you buy the American version, some names are different.

Good example

Well to be fair it's not a good example is it? Ivory Coast is an english translation of 'Cote D'Ivoire'. 'Holland' isn't exactly an english translation of 'Netherlands', it's simply a mistake.

Well to be fair it's not a good example is it? Ivory Coast is an english translation of 'Cote D'Ivoire'. 'Holland' isn't exactly an english translation of 'Netherlands', it's simply a mistake.

Actually, it's a perfect example. The Ivorian government actively discourages the use of "Ivory Coast", preferring for their country to be called "Côte d'Ivoire" in all languages. That's what they want you to call it, regardless of where in the world you are and what language you speak. In the cases of both nations, SI have opted to use names for them that are commonly used in English, even though strictly speaking they're not the nations' "official" names.

Here's one for you. Or, food for thought, well, either way.

Wales in England they are called Wales, the welsh are called the same in Scotland and Ireland. But in France, they/the country is know/are known as, Le Pays de Galles. So you can translate the languagues/<words of nation> back and forth, then another country will pronounce or just say it in a completely different way. The British call the Dutch, erm.. Holland then some other country will call them The Netherlands or Nederland. :/

Here's one for you. Or, food for thought, well, either way.

Wales in England they are called Wales, the welsh are called the same in Scotland and Ireland. But in France, they/the country is know/are known as, Le Pays de Galles. So you can translate the languagues/<words of nation> back and forth, then another country will pronounce or just say it in a completely different way. The British call the Dutch, erm.. Holland then some other country will call them The Netherlands or Nederland. :/

So basically... it's very complicated and we shouldn't think about it too much.

Well to be fair it's not a good example is it? Ivory Coast is an english translation of 'Cote D'Ivoire'. 'Holland' isn't exactly an english translation of 'Netherlands', it's simply a mistake.

yeah sorry i didn`t think of it like that mate;)

I'm not sure Pat Holland would like to be called Pat Netherlands

So basically... it's very complicated and we shouldn't think about it too much.

Yep

10 Characters

My brain hurts!!

Any of the moderators want to comment on this?

Any of the moderators want to comment on this?

I don't really see a need for that to be honest. SI are just implementing the commonly used term for a certain country in a given language. In ( UK ) English, German and probably a lot of other languages I don't speak the Netherlands are commonly referred to as Holland and not in any derogatory fashion.

Where is the issue here unless you really want to take PC to an unhealthy level ? A Dutch version should obviously use the official term, but that's about it :confused:

By the way, one of Dutch former colonies also have the wrong name in the game.

The correct name should be Suriname, with an "e" in the end, not Surinam.

Check the CIA Factbook, for example.

Here's one for you. Or, food for thought, well, either way.

Wales in England they are called Wales, the welsh are called the same in Scotland and Ireland. But in France, they/the country is know/are known as, Le Pays de Galles. So you can translate the languagues/<words of nation> back and forth, then another country will pronounce or just say it in a completely different way. The British call the Dutch, erm.. Holland then some other country will call them The Netherlands or Nederland. :/

Holland/Netherlands isn't just an example of saying things in a different way though. Wales/Pays de Galles are both still Wales, just in different languages, Holland and the Netherlands are two different things, the issue is that we English speakers refer to "Holland" when we actually mean "Netherlands", hence why non-Hollander Dutch rightly get irritated by it. If "Pays de Galles" meant "Cardiff" or "Swansea" and the French used it to refer to the whole of Wales then yes, it would be similar then.

By the way, one of Dutch former colonies also have the wrong name in the game.

The correct name should be Suriname, with an "e" in the end, not Surinam.

Check the CIA Factbook, for example.

Well spotted mate. Hopefully this will get cleared up:)

Well to be fair it's not a good example is it? Ivory Coast is an english translation of 'Cote D'Ivoire'. 'Holland' isn't exactly an english translation of 'Netherlands', it's simply a mistake.

I'd go further and say it's ignorance on the part of people who call Netherlands by the name of Holland.

I imagine it is given that name as it is commonly used in England, rather like Ivory Coast instead of Cote D'Ivoire.

Infact one could argue that it's a worse crime. I've spent time in both parts of the world, and it is far from surprising to hear denizens of the Netherlands refer to the football team as Holland, however in all my time in West Africa, I've never heard anybody refer to Cote d'Ivoire as Ivory Coast.

There is some ambiguity over whether Holland is an acceptable term to use for the Netherlands, however there is no such ambiguity pertaining to Cote d'Ivoire. No Ivorian refers to their country as Ivory Coast.

Well, you're right and it's quite a well known fact (not to try and make you look stupid, just saying). But in Britain there commonly reffered to as Holland, and if were going to call everyone by their proper names, Bayern Munich would have to be changed to Bayern Munchen and so on.

Bayern München are called Bayern München in game.

Where's the Democratic People's Republic of Korea? Or the Nation of Brunei, the Abode of Peace?

Since we're on the topic of words being translated and such, is the sport correctly referred to as football in the European releases? I ask because it's referred to as soccer in the U.S. release

Since we're on the topic of words being translated and such, is the sport correctly referred to as football in the European releases? I ask because it's referred to as soccer in the U.S. release

Given that it's called "Football Manager", you'd bloody well expect so, wouldn't you? Isn't it only the American "Worldwide Soccer Manager" release where it's referred to as soccer?

Holland sounds better and is shorter to type.

Given that it's called "Football Manager", you'd bloody well expect so, wouldn't you? Isn't it only the American "Worldwide Soccer Manager" release where it's referred to as soccer?

Well, it is called "Worldwide Football Manager" here as well. That's why it bugs me that they changed it to say soccer. I figure if anyone from here in the U.S. has any interest in playing this game they probably care realize which football the title is talking about lol

We Belgians call the dutch cheeseheads. And right we are!

No Ivorian refers to their country as Ivory Coast.

Exactly how many English people refer to England as Angleterre ( French term for England ) or Anglya ( Russian term ) ?

Ivory Coast is a literal translation of the country's French name into the English language. Nothing wrong with that.

I imagine it is given that name as it is commonly used in England, rather like Ivory Coast instead of Cote D'Ivoire.

Good example

No, not really. Ivory Coast is nothing but a literal translation of the French country name whereas The Netherlands is the proper English language word for the country called 'Nederland' in Dutch.

Both in and outside of said country, maybe even especially in relation to football, it is at times referred to as 'Holland' as well, indeed. However that is not the proper name and some people are offended by that whereas doing it the other way around won't offend anyone.

I'm one of those who really couldn't care less which term SI choose to use.

While we're at it could you not have a scouting region search for 'Benelux'?

In football its always been Holland when in English. Check out matches between the two, it always says England v Holland not England v Netherlands. The suggestions on here are a little ludicrous because if we start focussing on real names then Italy should be Italia, Spain - Espana (with the sign above the n), Germany - Deutschland and so on.

so is it..UK, United Kingdom, England, Scotland, Wales, Brittannia???

I've seen this being raised on here for a few times already tbh, but I don't consider this whole issue as important really. However, the pc version would be using the other term, but as the Dutch often use the name 'Holland' themselves when chanting, I don't see SI being sued for this

Certainly not a Hong Kong case equivalent here

Again, let me reiterate that this has nothing to do with using the foreign language name of a country, as jsolloso misinterpreted again. Italia is not the name of Italy in English, it's Italy. But 'The Netherlands' is the proper English name for Nederland, which it would be in Dutch. It's not about using the respective local name for each country but about naming or not naming a country by a mere region of it which happens to be used this way regularly while not being the proper term.

The internet ending is .nl for a reason.

Met a few dutch guys on holiday and they said they come from Holland, never mentioned Netherlands.

We have a Holland and Barrett over here but cant seem them changing it to Netherlands and Barrett

I think the most important thing to consider here is, if holland plays, does the scoreboard on english television say "HOL" or "NET". I wouldn't know the answer, cause I watch all of our matches on dutch television, where the scoreboard says "NED".

Met a few dutch guys on holiday and they said they come from Holland, never mentioned Netherlands.

We have a Holland and Barrett over here but cant seem them changing it to Netherlands and Barrett

Maybe it's because of the famous dutch song "we're from holland, where the f*ck you from?"