RANT - worst version ever

Ok im at risk of a yellow card or something here but im becoming very frustrated by fm. I find there are too many silly things going on in the game since the patch, for example:-

Why do gks not even bother to save shots, they are going right thru them against me and for me.

Why do my players never ever control the ball.

Why do my defenders when set on marking tightly never mark tightly mark empty space laeving the man they were supposed to be marking unmarked and clean thru on goal.

Why are crosses very rarely completed.

players are near the ball but run and mark space instead of going for a ball that is near them.

Very rarely does the side that creates the most amount of chances actually when the game.

These are things that i have noticed in just last frew games, i had put the game down but i so badky want to play the game and enjoy it,i use the same tactics that i used before the patch and now im getting ripped apart by teams far inferior to me. Also at the post match screen you will get a post match screen that says things like that game could of gone either way etc when teams have been hammered and had 1 chance on goal or something compared to 10 of another, then in your news it admits what happens, why bother having the post match report if its gonna say complete rubbish. No doubt this will get ignored or my training, or teamtalks or tactics will get blames even tho they are the same as before the patch and i was doing well. if it doesnt get ignored i will get banned, i mean arent people supposed to air there opinions on the game? anyone would of thought we bought it and paid si's wages, i think there is a growing majority disgruntled players of fm out there and lots are afraid to air there thoughts.Bring back the enjoyment, let us find the bargain players, let us see realisitic action on the pitch let us see the basics you see week in week out iat our grounds

Ok im at risk of a yellow card or something here but im becoming very frustrated by fm. I find there are too many silly things going on in the game since the patch, for example:-

Why do gks not even bother to save shots, they are going right thru them against me and for me.

Why do my players never ever control the ball.

Why do my defenders when set on marking tightly never mark tightly mark empty space laeving the man they were supposed to be marking unmarked and clean thru on goal.

Why are crosses very rarely completed.

players are near the ball but run and mark space instead of going for a ball that is near them.

Very rarely does the side that creates the most amount of chances actually when the game.

These are things that i have noticed in just last frew games, i had put the game down but i so badky want to play the game and enjoy it,i use the same tactics that i used before the patch and now im getting ripped apart by teams far inferior to me. Also at the post match screen you will get a post match screen that says things like that game could of gone either way etc when teams have been hammered and had 1 chance on goal or something compared to 10 of another, then in your news it admits what happens, why bother having the post match report if its gonna say complete rubbish. No doubt this will get ignored or my training, or teamtalks or tactics will get blames even tho they are the same as before the patch and i was doing well. if it doesnt get ignored i will get banned, i mean arent people supposed to air there opinions on the game? anyone would of thought we bought it and paid si's wages, i think there is a growing majority disgruntled players of fm out there and lots are afraid to air there thoughts.Bring back the enjoyment, let us find the bargain players, let us see realisitic action on the pitch let us see the basics you see week in week out iat our grounds

yeah yeah yeah

Another person deems himself important enogh to start a new thread. You know these threads are just for people to get a higher post count don't you.

Now, why don't you take your rant (and you are entitled to one) to an 'existing thread' of which there are hundreds if you bother to look.

Rant over

thank you for your help maviarab

There are plenty of bargain buys.

I think you are just a rubbish player that wants to win every game.

Try looking in the tactics section and good player section for help.

I do however agree that 8.00 was a poor game and SI should never had let it out in that state.

Look, it's a rubbish game, and as someone who spent a good deal of money on it, I feel very ripped off. However, it doesn't really need another thread saying all these things.

I do sympathise however, as venting in a new thread is a better way of relieving frustration than throwing your laptop.

Seeing this thread closed would not upset me in the least.

RAVE, GROWL, MOAN!! SI ARE A DISGRACE!

Yes the game isn't perfect, but it's still a good game that people want to play. Continually moaning about things will not suddenly transform your game into the easy ride/perfect game that you seem to want.

I ahve been having no such problems in my patched (8.0.2) game. In fact, my obviously superior team are dominating in the SPL, conceding very few, and scoring freely. However, on a more level playing field (excuse the pun) in Europe, I am finding it more of a challenge. That's the fun of it.

Stop whinging and play the damn game, you know you are going to anyway.

JONFUN you said to look at the tactics stuff in this forum, believe it or not i must have over a hundred pages of stuff from this forum and most of the tried and trusted theories used to work but are now blown out of the water due to what i would say meddling

SIRDEZ be careful to criticise anything as im sure a yellow card will soon follow, that waht seems to go on in here

GUNNERFAN how would closing this be fair? im having my opinion and whats wrong with that?

KNIGHTEDMANAGER a chance in the game and some realism would be good, when this came out (8.0) it didnt look realistic, now it runs far more like a proper game of football but other things dont add up.You are succesful in SPL with a big club? Only two clubs up there Rangers and Celtic hardly a challenge playing as them

I hate moaning, but for me, 8.0.2 is a disaster. I get so many long shot goals and so many beginning/end of half goals that it seem ludicrous. Goalkeeper ratings seem to be a bit of a problem again, this time in the sense that I've seen goalies conceding seven out of nine and still getting a 6.

It seems to me that every time something gets fixed (e.g. corner kick goals) something else go wrong.

FcPoliFan I would like to add that i dont think the corners has been totally fixed i still score a fair few from the near post and can have a centre half score into double figures which i think is unrealistic

Anyone who thinks it's the worst version ever clearly never played CM4. Or CM3.

Proclaiming something as best ever/worst ever only undermines any points you may have. Overexaggeration is epidemic.

drevil, I was refering to the fact that goals were scored in an identical manner, at the near post.

It's weird in a way. I initially thought the patch was ok, but then all these things started happening. I have no clue whether i changed anything, maybe it's because I got the latest version of 8.0.2, because I've noticed my problems after that. But I'm not totally sure when and why it happened.

Since 8.0.2, I'm still seeing too many bookings, both for me and for my opponents. But other than that, I now love this game. I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by drevil1969:

Ok im at risk of a yellow card or something here but im becoming very frustrated by fm. I find there are too many silly things going on in the game since the patch, for example:-

Why do gks not even bother to save shots, they are going right thru them against me and for me.

Why do my players never ever control the ball.

Why do my defenders when set on marking tightly never mark tightly mark empty space laeving the man they were supposed to be marking unmarked and clean thru on goal.

Why are crosses very rarely completed.

players are near the ball but run and mark space instead of going for a ball that is near them.

Very rarely does the side that creates the most amount of chances actually when the game.

These are things that i have noticed in just last frew games, i had put the game down but i so badky want to play the game and enjoy it,i use the same tactics that i used before the patch and now im getting ripped apart by teams far inferior to me. Also at the post match screen you will get a post match screen that says things like that game could of gone either way etc when teams have been hammered and had 1 chance on goal or something compared to 10 of another, then in your news it admits what happens, why bother having the post match report if its gonna say complete rubbish. No doubt this will get ignored or my training, or teamtalks or tactics will get blames even tho they are the same as before the patch and i was doing well. if it doesnt get ignored i will get banned, i mean arent people supposed to air there opinions on the game? anyone would of thought we bought it and paid si's wages, i think there is a growing majority disgruntled players of fm out there and lots are afraid to air there thoughts.Bring back the enjoyment, let us find the bargain players, let us see realisitic action on the pitch let us see the basics you see week in week out iat our grounds </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

of course keepers bother to save shots. otherwise you'd get scores of 6-6.

my players often control the ball.

loads of my crosses get to their man and also get turned into the goal.

my players go to the ball, of course if it's a case of stepping out to get a ball taht you've only got a 50-50 chance of getting because the attack is running at you they dont want to risk getting stranded so they will drop back and slow the attacker up for other defneders to get into position.

my team creates most chances and wins, teams against me also do. so it's not very rarely.

you use the same tactics after the patch when you know the match engine has changed and you still want to win?

thats just silly.

funniest thread i've read for a while

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by andyinuk:

funniest thread i've read for a while </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it is funny, but seeing (after patch 8.0.2) every oposition header turned into goal can really boil your blood Maybe I`m a lousy player

6 goals conceded in 17 matches

Yes there are more goals scored now than in previous patch, but its no where near as bad as some people make it out to be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonBlade:

Anyone who thinks it's the worst version ever clearly never played CM4. Or CM3.

Proclaiming something as best ever/worst ever only undermines any points you may have. Overexaggeration is epidemic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't agree more. Playing CM4 was like a trip to the dentist.

First of all, i am apologizing for double posting.

But after I did some internet research and on one of the FM websites i found ME beta tester commenting this,again, for reason that people should be more calm on both sides of the opinion:

On defense changes and general amount of goals:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> In 8.0.1 the problem was they were never in the right positions (especially the FBs, but also the DCs when they ran towards the ball as the TB was hit!?!). Now they are more often than not, and, in general, read the play pretty well. Shooting accuracy may well be tweaked a little high though, so the times they don't you are over heavily punished </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding 'Corner bug":

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 1: I didn't see the problem in Beta testing, but then I don't use the setup that is working overly well. I imagine a fair few other Beta testers didn't either.

2: For someone that did, they may have attributed it to their great tactical ability and not reported it.

3: It happened on the last build and thus nobody spotted it in time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In regards to Free kick scoring:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It was actully me that supplied SI with the real life data re percentage of goals scored from set-pieces and it is roughly one in five (from memory I think it was 22%) at the highest level. This was taken from an academic analysis of International Tournaments from 1980 onwards. It also measured the likelihood of scoring an open play goal based on the relative distance a player is from the goal and from an opposing player closing him down. It also suggests one in four SOT go in, so an average GK should have roughly a 75% save ratio.

As of yet nobody has discovered a data source to measure this throughout levels, so it is all based on assumptions from that point on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In addition to that he mentioned in post on forums here that ME has 2 game breaking bugs(one being corners) and some additional annoying bugs that will be fixed in future release.And that ME had 150+ changes between 8.0.1 and 8.02, which for me explains why some different things resurfaced and were not noticed on time.

I would say that when you place all mentioned into ME, i probably increases scoring for 20-25%.And if you add to it not trying to get tactics tweaked , that will amount to more.

To me it looks like that general idea of where ME is going is good.

And if you remove effects of the bugs mentioned above , you would have decent engine and better results without odd high scoring games.

For that you will have to wait 09, though, since due to time limit they didn't catch/fix those in 08.

In the end you have to chose do you want to play game with accepting these bugs, or be patient and wait for 09.

Either way , it appears that SI is aware of most of the problems and will work on them for next edition.

But still there is no reason for either side to flame other sides opinion, definitely not insulting each others or ridiculing.

Because, in fair honesty neither of side is completely correct.

After all, we all want a good game.

Ok, here is the ultimate example for the type of matches I have to bear. This may be an extreme example, but it shows what I've been up against much too often. I was playing in the Conference.

Bognor Regis - Exeter 5:6

Match Stats

My goalkeeper

So you've got 2 (even 3) beginning/end of half goals, 3 consecutive goals, shots galore on my side and barely scored, just three more shots on goal by them than goals scored.

And this happened often during the season and during other seasons as well. It's just very, very depressing.

Also, just a thought looking at my example and the issue mentioned by drevil, that too often the side that has less shots on goal wins (as was the case in Bognor - Exeter): maybe the game "balances" the save percentages mentioned by mlp701, in that my goalie had a save ratio of 20% and his had one of around 66% - balanced at more or less 50%.

Just thinking this may be the way in which the game applies this particular real world statistic.

But I have no clue why long-shot goals are so bloody frequent.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FcPoliFan:

Also, just a thought looking at my example and the issue mentioned by drevil, that too often the side that has less shots on goal wins (as was the case in Bognor - Exeter): maybe the game "balances" the save percentages mentioned by mlp701, in that my goalie had a save ratio of 20% and his had one of around 66% - balanced at more or less 50%.

Just thinking this may be the way in which the game applies this particular real world statistic.

But I have no clue why long-shot goals are so bloody frequent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

long shots could be a cause of denfenders who stand off.

or a cause of your defensive line and midfield line becoming pulled apart from each other.

i dont feel in my games there are too mnay long shots, regardless of if they go in or not.

Thing is, I used the same tactics in 8.0.1 and there weren't as many long-shots going in. It's absurd, especially considering I was playing at Conference level; I mean I'd get it if Ronaldinho and the likes were the ones "inflicting" the goals, but not some weirdo with 5-10 long shots.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thing is, I used the same tactics in 8.0.1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Theres part of your problem. The ME changed, so the same tactics will produce different things...

Yeah, how often does that bite people?

New Match Engine.

If you assume that your tactic, which worked for the last match engine, will work for this one, that's your mistake, not SI's.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FcPoliFan:

Thing is, I used the same tactics in 8.0.1 and there weren't as many long-shots going in. It's absurd, especially considering I was playing at Conference level; I mean I'd get it if Ronaldinho and the likes were the ones "inflicting" the goals, but not some weirdo with 5-10 long shots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You missed part of my post where i was quoting that there was 150+ changes in ME from 8.0.1 to 8.0.2, basically rendering most of the tactics obsolete.You need to tweak them.

As for, goalie percentage, it's effected by those mentioned problems , otherwise would be higher.Without those problems engine would be fine and thats what they are trying to accomplish for 09, from what i have gathered reading several different forums on that topic.

Don't take me wrong , i am far from happy with state that 08 is in right now, mostly due to some other problems outside of the ME, but i can understand why they couldn't streamline present built and what they are going for in future.

And thats good enough for me.Meantime i am gonna be playing 07

I've been using this tactic for years.

It's really not very aggressive or anything, playing everything on medium. I mean sure, if I go all out attack I obviously see a huge rift between the defence and the the striker/s offensive midfielder.

Also, the same way I concede long shots goals, I score them. So either everyone does the same mistake, or it's something more than.

If you find it looks like your players have never seen a football before, let alone never met, then your tactics need changing. It is stupid, I agree, but if your tactics are 'wrong' then players play like blind aardvarks.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serpico:

If you find it looks like your players have never seen a football before, let alone never met, then your tactics need changing. It is stupid, I agree, but if your tactics are 'wrong' then players play like blind aardvarks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sad but true, Serp.

Players are so "Tactic Specific" that you'd literally have to tell them to poo or they wouldn't do it.

I cant believe how some of you guys sit there and blindly defend SI and say its peoples tactics. My own tactics dont affect another league game thats ending arsenal 8-0 chelsea

scoring in the bigs games are high, I mean the odd person will come on and reply and say "well in my game they were 0-0 or 1-0" but to be fair Ive started about 4 games so far and there have been some crazy scores in the big games liverpool getting beat by chelsea 5 and 6 nil man united getting beat 5-1 and 6-2

european games I lost 5-1 away to barcelona in the first leg and won 7-0 in the second, its crazy!!

I could understand if a tactic used was slightly weird, but I use default tactics 442 433 and 451, with v minor tweaks. and get stupid scores, Its not the fact I lose becuase I rarely do, its just I beat chelsea 8-3 lost to arsenal 5-1 and beat liverpool 6-0.

defenders scoring 25 goals a season is laughable too. looks like Football manager is going the way of FIFA when they had no real competition.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">defenders scoring 25 goals a season is laughable too </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so don't exploit the issue and then say its 'laughable'. My defenders rarely get more than 3 or 4 goals per season. All the people who moan about defenders scoring more than strikers exploit the known issue.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dirky Diggler:

I cant believe how some of you guys sit there and blindly defend SI and say its peoples tactics. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's wrong with defending SI, they're great and have produced a magnificent that none of us could do better. So before you say something stupid just think about it, if you didn't like SI why do you play the game, in fact why are you even on these forums!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serpico:

If you find it looks like your players have never seen a football before, let alone never met, then your tactics need changing. It is stupid, I agree, but if your tactics are 'wrong' then players play like blind aardvarks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sad but true, Serp.

Players are so "Tactic Specific" that you'd literally have to tell them to poo or they wouldn't do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that`s the problem, I think that player`s skils should counter "holes" in tactics which computer exploits in order to win. Now when you choose bad tactic your players are blind they`re not losing the match after hard fight they`re destroyed , demolished

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:

Theres part of your problem. The ME changed, so the same tactics will produce different things... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've not changed my tactics in three years. Still win everything. "It's your tactics" is woefully overrated.

And that's three actual years. Not game years.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonBlade:

And that's three actual years. Not game years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wish I had your problems VB

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonBlade:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:

Theres part of your problem. The ME changed, so the same tactics will produce different things... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've not changed my tactics in three years. Still win everything. "It's your tactics" is woefully overrated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree with that.

Granted, in some cases, elaborate tactics are needed (LLM) but personally, i dont really alter my tactics from game to game, just play more defensively away from home with a little less creative freedom and bobs your aunt.

The 4-3-1-2 works a treat

Im no Alex Ferguson, but i win my fair share

Sir Alex Ferguson

Several of these threads come up every week... and I still haven't learned how to properly respond to them...

I think there is a fair point made here which appears to be im not alone and that there are alot of things wrong with fmo8 that need to be corrected, i hope they are for 09 as i hardly play this now due to borddom

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5:

I wish I had your problems VB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe. Careful what you wish for

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Players are so "Tactic Specific" that you'd literally have to tell them to poo or they wouldn't do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My company has an IT department just like that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by B. Stinson:

Several of these threads come up every week... and I still haven't learned how to properly respond to them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh. I find it fun taking the **** out of the moaners just to watch them tear out their hair and get yellow cards over abusive behavior.

(picturing Jach Nicholson playing a moaner in the film)

Oh, hell, that should be Jack.

Serves me right for doing this after working a full day, refereeing a cat fight between two female underlings, all following 5 hours of sleep last night (because I was...well, you know).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FcPoliFan:

Ok, here is the ultimate example for the type of matches I have to bear. This may be an extreme example, but it shows what I've been up against much too often. I was playing in the Conference.

Bognor Regis - Exeter 5:6

Match Stats

My goalkeeper

So you've got 2 (even 3) beginning/end of half goals, 3 consecutive goals, shots galore on my side and barely scored, just three more shots on goal by them than goals scored.

And this happened often during the season and during other seasons as well. It's just very, very depressing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch the flanks. Watch the flanks.

42% & 33% crosses successful!!! Somebody, somewhere, is leaving gaping holes all over the flanks. You should be looking to get this down to below 20% for the opposition and keep it above 20% for your team. If the oppositon makes almost every other cross, you are doing something seriously, seriously wrong. As always, all the clues are in the match stats.

I'm assuming you have started a game in 8.0.2 rather than continued an 8.0.1 save?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FcPoliFan:

Ok, here is the ultimate example for the type of matches I have to bear. This may be an extreme example, but it shows what I've been up against much too often. I was playing in the Conference.

Bognor Regis - Exeter 5:6

Match Stats

My goalkeeper

So you've got 2 (even 3) beginning/end of half goals, 3 consecutive goals, shots galore on my side and barely scored, just three more shots on goal by them than goals scored.

And this happened often during the season and during other seasons as well. It's just very, very depressing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Watch the flanks. Watch the flanks.

42% & 33% crosses successful!!! Somebody, somewhere, is leaving gaping holes all over the flanks. You should be looking to get this down to below 20% for the opposition and keep it above 20% for your team. If the oppositon makes almost every other cross, you are doing something seriously, seriously wrong. As always, all the clues are in the match stats.

I'm assuming you have started a game in 8.0.2 rather than continued an 8.0.1 save? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you notice his so called Goalkeeper plays for Pourtsmouth?

By the way a good read through, 'Tactic Theorems and Frameworks' will help you an awful lot. I'm sure wwfan will have a link.

I sdon not think there is any doubt this us the worst FM/CM ever. It's still a decent game but it used to be a great game.

Have you played CM4. The bugs were everywhere and people see it through rose-tinted glasses because everyone says it was good, because of the fun factor.