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View Full Version : Why do some people actually play FM?



Nick_Mackam
01-03-2010, 22:39
I must admit I rarely come on here, but when I do it is mainly to find out when the next patch is coming out (Well done SI by the way)

But I can't help but notice that there seems to be a load of people posting in the different sub forums, often the same individuals who must just find out who all the best players are, download the best tactics (That someone else has created) and training schedule (Again made by someone else) and even read through all the faqs about how to best execute team talks etc....

Surely this can't make the game in any way enjoyable or any satisfaction in terms of actually winning anything? Essentially you just become part of an automated process putting together all the pieces in the most easy way possible and sitting back to watching your team win? As someone from SI said on here last time I was on, it seems some people just want a 'Win' button on the interface.

I realise other people take the game and do actually do their best to do things their way.

This does bring me back to a point though in that from my first indications the ME seems a huge step forward in 10.3. This to me was the biggest area that needed improving for FM. I'll admit previously I have looked for tactical advice because the ME seemed more of a code to crack, sometimes using what appeared to be unrealistic tactics to manipulate getting a result rather then using realistic footballing methods.

Hopefully those first impressions will be the case and the game will be much more of a representation of using real tactical knowledge where everyone can dive in and make it interesting to create and modify a footballing approach again.

SCORPIO
01-03-2010, 22:42
Agreed!!!! im a real fm player!!! dont look for tricks and tips. its like playing GTA With Cheats

Lord Rowell
01-03-2010, 22:48
I think its just horses for courses, so to speak.

Speaking personally, I never, ever, look at the threads where recommendations for signings can be found, simply because I enjoy finding the next Maradona's, Pele's etc. by myself, and get a lot of satisfaction when I do unearth a gem.

However, I have downloaded tactics in the past when I've been struggling. Sometimes, playing with a successful tactic, then looking at how it works, can then be really helpful in designing your own tactics in the future.

Also, tbh, sometimes if I've had a hard day at work, I don't want to struggle, I want to chill out and cruise and win games. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. I'd never condemn anyone for looking at good player lists, downloading tactics, using the editor to create super-players etc. It all depends what you want out of the game at any given point in time IMO. :)

B. Stinson
01-03-2010, 22:56
Amen, Nick!

The unfortunate things is, most of the negativity towards FM is probably coming from these types of players. They can't use their super-tactics as the game gets better, so the game is terrible and broken. The super-team they routinely buy on their first day as manager isn't as effective as they think it should be, so the game is terrible, unrealistic, and broken.

It's also why there appear to be a handful of us with magic copies of the game, who don't experience the major flaws so many others see - our game isn't magic, nor are we "fanboys"... we just play the game properly.

Nick_Mackam
01-03-2010, 23:05
True.

What other people want to do is up to them - But I am delighted there is a realistic ME as it means I can actually experiment and build a football club, team and tactics over time by using realistic football methods. As opposed to look for some quick fix to bypass the ME

As a Sunderland fan I know in real life their isn't a chance in hell a new manager would come in in the summer buy 30 new players, find some amazing tactics and we would win the league next year. I'd much rather the realistic side of football - Take the team, find players and tactics to fit together and over a 4/5 years I may not win much - But at least if I finally do I might get some satisfaction from it!

Neji
01-03-2010, 23:06
People do what they want to make the game fun and people don't necessarily enjoy certain aspects of the game. Training, for example. If you don't like it, then it's much better to keep it as simple as possible, downloading a schedule would be a way of doing it.

I used to play a lot of JPRG's but now-a-days, I can't stand grinding. If I could take that out of the game, it would make it a lot more enjoyable to me.

Lord Rowell
01-03-2010, 23:20
True.

What other people want to do is up to them - But I am delighted there is a realistic ME as it means I can actually experiment and build a football club, team and tactics over time by using realistic football methods. As opposed to look for some quick fix to bypass the ME

As a Sunderland fan I know in real life their isn't a chance in hell a new manager would come in in the summer buy 30 new players, find some amazing tactics and we would win the league next year. I'd much rather the realistic side of football - Take the team, find players and tactics to fit together and over a 4/5 years I may not win much - But at least if I finally do I might get some satisfaction from it!

I guessed you were a Sunderland fan from your name - me too. Slightly off-topic, but its interesting how many people have expected Steve Bruce to re-assemble a new team from scratch and make it successful overnight ;)

Nick_Mackam
01-03-2010, 23:23
Amen, Nick!

The unfortunate things is, most of the negativity towards FM is probably coming from these types of players. They can't use their super-tactics as the game gets better, so the game is terrible and broken. The super-team they routinely buy on their first day as manager isn't as effective as they think it should be, so the game is terrible, unrealistic, and broken.

It's also why there appear to be a handful of us with magic copies of the game, who don't experience the major flaws so many others see - our game isn't magic, nor are we "fanboys"... we just play the game properly.


I guessed you were a Sunderland fan from your name - me too. Slightly off-topic, but its interesting how many people have expected Steve Bruce to re-assemble a new team from scratch and make it successful overnight ;)

He should have a look on the tactics forum and sign Sergey Krivets

ChrisDowns22
01-03-2010, 23:23
I sometimes look up good youngsters but I don't always buy them, as most the time I like to see how their careers carries out while I'm playing mine I like looking for good players going out watching games using scouts, makes me feel like a real manager sometimes lol!

I won't ever get on at people for making super players or anything like that! There own preference!

ChrisDowns22
01-03-2010, 23:26
Agreed!!!! im a real fm player!!! dont look for tricks and tips. its like playing GTA With Cheats

Lol as the game is easy enough :D

Eugene Tyson
02-03-2010, 00:02
I play for fun. And I've never been bad at any of the versions.

I don't care about patches, I play through them. It's great the game is updated via the internet. Constantly improving.

I play because I enjoy it. And I play the way I like to play.

pyewackett
02-03-2010, 00:06
I play it, I really do.

I can't be bothered just siging players that have been posted on the forums, I like to feel that I have achieved success by my own means. If some one requests, what is the best player to sign for my team what is the best coach to sign for my team is how they want to play then let them to it.

For me it's a no, it isn't how I want play the game.

Some people post wanting advice and tips especially if your new to this sort of game, I might of posted similar sort of requests when I gave EVE Online a whirl I was totally clueless, just trying to get an understading on what I am supposed to be doing, with the game being in unfimilar territory. So I might of been annoying the masses, ask advice but don't cheat yourself.

But you get them all boosting each other. Don't you, well kids these days...eh, no patience. ;)

What's the point playing a game, from a FAQ how to complete a level. Just sign this wonderkid you'll never loose. On a slightly bitter note, even if I tried they would be awful or wouldn't want to join or want to leave regardless, making their aquasition, uneccassry. Well in my experience, any way.

Vermundr
02-03-2010, 00:13
I really can't be bothered with creating my own training regimes. Other than that a few good graphic packs and the game is set to run on full steam!

I don't want to edit or even KNOW who has 190 potential or anything like that, it would really spoil the game and I'll just drop it. And from my past experiences with people's tactics i discovered that the best one is the one you make yourself :D

isuckatfm
02-03-2010, 00:19
Amen, Nick!

The unfortunate things is, most of the negativity towards FM is probably coming from these types of players. They can't use their super-tactics as the game gets better, so the game is terrible and broken. The super-team they routinely buy on their first day as manager isn't as effective as they think it should be, so the game is terrible, unrealistic, and broken.

It's also why there appear to be a handful of us with magic copies of the game, who don't experience the major flaws so many others see - our game isn't magic, nor are we "fanboys"... we just play the game properly.

That is such a sweeping generalisation. If somebody playing the game sees something that does not represent real life then their tactic has sweet FA to do with it other than maybe contributing to a higher propensity to expose the issue. Obviously it is all subjective in terms of what should or shouldn’t happen and it may be the case that real life statistics/quantitative analysis do not match up to what said complainant thinks should be happening. That is fair enough.

But if the user creates a tactic that consistently performs by the simplest statistical measures (and real life ones in general for football)

- deny the opposition clear chances
- create clear chances

yet he/she consistently loses then they have every right to be frustrated. It does not matter what the approach is, all that matters is how realistically the match engine reacts to said approach. It has nothing to down with ‘playing the game properly’. If this is supposed to be a simulation then that concept should not exist. The goal should be to have the match engine respond to whatever inputs it is provided with regardless of how ‘unrealistic’ they are or how much they deviate from ‘playing the game properly’.

So if I create a tactic with the intent of focusing everything through the middle and looking for the slipped through balls in and around the box, that is no less valid than someone creating more variety in their attacking approach. I should be punished for reasons that reflect real life football in that you become more reliant on the little things as the space you are attempting to attack is crowded. But what was happening for some users was they were easily breaking through but were thwarted by bad finishing/superkeepers (this is a general description, not the rubber banding definition).

The general assumption on here is that it is hyperbole or selective memory, which is fair enough considering how rarely people bother to upload pkms. But in one thread someone did upload pkms. In 3 matches he created 30 CCCs with a world class side, with a high percentage being 1 v 1 in behind the opposition defense yet the conversion rate was pretty low. If that were a real life team there wouldn’t be a single person watching who would say the equivalent to your ‘playing the game properly’. No one would criticise the manager for creating quality chances and not having more variety in his attacks with his one dimensional approach.

So your view that they don’t play the game properly might well be true if the match engine reflected real life better, but if things were flipped and FM was real life then you would be the one who is not playing the game properly. If your team was capable of consistently pushing the ball through the middle and creating clear chances in behind the opposition from these attacks, then that is what you would continue to do. You wouldn’t change tack because the chances get missed, you would change your approach if you were struggling to break the opposition down. Why anyone taking the same view in FM is considered to not be playing the game properly is a viewpoint that makes zero sense to me.

heathxxx
02-03-2010, 00:19
The beauty of this game is there's no definitive way to play it. People can get out of it what they want from it.

If people want the challenge, then they can do everything for themselves. If they want an easier ride or just need help, then there's so much information available in these forums. There's absolutely no need for the developers to make the game "easier".

The "win" button(s) as far as I see it:

-The Editor.
-Tactics & Training Tips.
-Good Players & Teams Guide.

Sadly, there will be those who are never happy (ranting for rantings sake, genuine issues aside), but it does seem to be more of a vocal minority. ;)

Trikstaa
02-03-2010, 01:21
One thing I love to do to be honest, is helping other people find the right players using my own experience from the game. One thing I try to do is to not sign the same player I've signed before. I see no reason as to why people like to use Tactics from websites to play the game. I mean I have used tactics just to get a better understanding of the Tactical Engine and through that create my own. But I played a friend who was using a tactic that was on www.fm-base.co.uk and he destroyed me. I dont call that fun! Anyways I dont know what the bloody hell i'm talking about=P ahahah!

naxself
02-03-2010, 01:23
Agreed!!!! im a real fm player!!! dont look for tricks and tips. its like playing GTA With Cheats

Really? You've developed all your tactics and knowledge in a bubble without any outside sources? You think real-life managers don't borrow tactics or listen to scuttlebutt around competitions?

Indicting the tactics forum as a "cheat" is just plain short-sighted.

Roman Chevalier
02-03-2010, 01:46
I do not see anything wrong with researching tactics or training. Agree that there is nothing worse than being able to win everygam in sight with no struggle, but people have differen views on it. It doesn't make the player a cheat if they research tactics. If they download them without any thought of how or why they may work, or how they fit into their team then thats stupid, but looking into and discussing tactics with people is like a form of education for yourself.....like getting your coaching badges. Err,,,yeah thats it...

M.U.F.C....TSVR
02-03-2010, 01:53
It don't hurt to gather information by browsing at another's creation. In order to progress in life sometime's we need advice, I've struggled at time's when I first played FM and read a large amount of information. I read about tactical variation's etc, it was just to help me understand the beutiful game. I wouldn't call that any kind of cheating at all

x42bn6
02-03-2010, 01:58
And there's no right way to play this game anyway. For example, there's nothing wrong with going 0-0-0-5-5 with an offensive goalkeeper - just that you won't win many games!

Is there a "wrong" way to play The Sims, for example? Heck no. Some of the more fun things are the morbid ones too.

So I say "to each his own". Want to cheat? Go ahead. Nick someone's tactic? With permission, go ahead. Financially destroy your rivals? Feel free to do so.

nattai
02-03-2010, 02:20
The difference lies more in those who play the game to 'win', and those who are more interested in the, for want of a better word, role playing aspects of the game.

I guess the question is what do you take more enjoyment from, winning the treble, or having a player you have developed from your own youth team make their international debut?

I know what my answer is!

B. Stinson
03-03-2010, 09:20
That is such a sweeping generalisation.

I know; It wasn't meant to be anything more than a stab at all those people who complain about unrealistic results from their unrealistic way of playing.


And from my past experiences with people's tactics i discovered that the best one is the one you make yourself :D

Very true. I also find tactics are usually best developed for what you have to work with. But then again, I guess one could work the other way by grabbing a tactic online, and then developing a team around it.


Really? You've developed all your tactics and knowledge in a bubble without any outside sources? You think real-life managers don't borrow tactics or listen to scuttlebutt around competitions?

Indicting the tactics forum as a "cheat" is just plain short-sighted.

Good point. But it's not necessarily a direct comparison. For this to translate to the game world, users would have to only use tactics and scuttlebutt from within their current game. Going outside of that universe and consulting other users who have "been there, done that" in their own universes is slightly more of a luxury than real managers have.

But, that point is assuming the person in question is trying to play 100% realistically. Otherwise, my point doesn't really matter, and one is free to do as he pleases.

CMOZZA
03-03-2010, 09:31
I don't think its a case of "Why do some people play FM?", I think its more "Why don't people think before they post?" if I'm completely honest........ :D

baker.simon
03-03-2010, 09:38
I guessed you were a Sunderland fan from your name - me too. Slightly off-topic, but its interesting how many people have expected Steve Bruce to re-assemble a new team from scratch and make it successful overnight ;)

Special agent Bruce :cool:

JonnyGabriel
03-03-2010, 09:48
The only thing I've ever downloaded was Tug's Training schedules because I genuinely have no idea how training works.

Other than that I do post in the good players forum but generally only in the threads for the teams I'm managing (Celtic/Newcastle/Gateshead), and it's always interesting to see how some players turn out.

Anyway, as the age old FM forum phrase goes; they've bought the game, they can play it how they want.

acidmonkey
03-03-2010, 10:09
Special agent Bruce :cool:

oi leave Brucey out of this!

btw ya spelt Mackem wrong :rolleyes:

each to there own game wise i say if they take enjoyment from downloading tactics and training then fine by me, they can play their game how they want

baker.simon
03-03-2010, 10:24
oi leave Brucey out of this!

btw ya spelt Mackem wrong :rolleyes:

each to there own game wise i say if they take enjoyment from downloading tactics and training then fine by me, they can play their game how they want

I never said mackem ;)

It was one of your own that spelt it wrong :p

Jimbo_the_red
03-03-2010, 10:25
I always read the Tactical Theorems every year, to me it feels like I'm completing my Uefa Coaching badges.
I then make my own tactics, sign scouted players, training schedules etc. Although in the past I have used Genie Scout which I now consider cheating.
But I do see people who use editors to give yourself more money etc cheating, I don't agree with it.

baker.simon
03-03-2010, 10:26
The only thing I've ever downloaded was Tug's Training schedules because I genuinely have no idea how training works.

Other than that I do post in the good players forum but generally only in the threads for the teams I'm managing (Celtic/Newcastle/Gateshead), and it's always interesting to see how some players turn out.

Anyway, as the age old FM forum phrase goes; they've bought the game, they can play it how they want.

That should be a marketing ploy for the next edition.

FM11: Play it your way

CMOZZA
03-03-2010, 10:55
That should be a marketing ploy for the next edition.

FM11: Play it your way

But wouldn't that suggest that SI would be condoning the use of 3rd party scouting tools/editors? :rolleyes:

baker.simon
03-03-2010, 11:03
But wouldn't that suggest that SI would be condoning the use of 3rd party scouting tools/editors? :rolleyes:

Not at all, it's suggesting that the buyer can play the game how they themselves wish to play the game. It doesn't have to be 3rd tools does it? People can add managers to their existing games and transfer players between clubs, or sell one of their rubbish players to another team for loads, or reload until they win, all without using 3rd party applications. Hell, they can even edit their club to have a sugar daddy using the official editor :p

CMOZZA
03-03-2010, 11:05
Not at all, it's suggesting that the buyer can play the game how they themselves wish to play the game. It doesn't have to be 3rd tools does it? People can add managers to their existing games and transfer players between clubs, or sell one of their rubbish players to another team for loads, or reload until they win, all without using 3rd party applications. Hell, they can even edit their club to have a sugar daddy using the official editor :p

Very true I suppose.....

*Hat Goes off to you*

:cool:

baker.simon
03-03-2010, 11:15
Very true I suppose.....

*Hat Goes off to you*

:cool:

Thats what happens when you try to pick fault with the best :D

Only joking ;)

Slevs
03-03-2010, 12:34
If this forum didn't exist, people would be happier with the game. I didn't even notice bugs before I found this place, was much more fun to play.

x42bn6
03-03-2010, 12:38
If this forum didn't exist, people would be happier with the game. I didn't even notice bugs before I found this place, was much more fun to play.
Ignorance is bliss.

stevio11
03-03-2010, 12:40
Even thou I read the threads, I have one golden rule when playing. No matter what team I am, I only ever sign players that are transfer listed, freebies or that my scouts have found.

Wizard boy
03-03-2010, 12:43
Is the ME any different to the one in the demo, thought that was pretty good personally. if its better still then that would be great.

Buggs_18
03-03-2010, 12:43
Agreed!!!! im a real fm player!!! dont look for tricks and tips. its like playing GTA With Cheats

I agree with the with what the OP is saying but how can you say playing GTA with cheats is a bad thing? Did you play Vice City or San Andreas:confused:

tcoleman1
03-03-2010, 12:46
I do understand what you mean. I only use downloaded training schedules, as I can't really be bothered making my own. I occasionally dip into the good player and team guide although I have been doing that a lot less. In fact in my last save I just relied on my own abilities to choose players. That's how I managed to get Plymouth to the Premier League :D

x42bn6
03-03-2010, 12:47
I agree with the with what the OP is saying but how can you say playing GTA with cheats is a bad thing? Did you play Vice City or San Andreas:confused:
GTA with cheats is the best part of the game. :D