4-2-4 = Goal

Im winnig 1-0 with minutes to go and then the opposition changes to 4-2-4 and guess what ? .. They score everytime !!! Shock !!!

People really should start to get smart enough at least to watch the games and observe what's happening on the pitch in case of repeating problems they're encountering. Way easier to handle than getting ****ed off and posting messages about it.

Hint: Watch your full-backs and opponents' wingers closely during these minutes. I won't explain the solution itself as it would be almost an insult.

I hope that before you made this topic you took a look at what tactics can negate it, or tried some for yourself.

and guess what ? ..

Well, my guess would be that you just sat there and stared at the pitch thinking there's no way your utterly dominating one-goal lead could be overcome, not even by four attackers going all-out.

That's my guess, at least.

Originally posted by B. Stinson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and guess what ? ..

Well, my guess would be that you just sat there and stared at the pitch thinking there's no way your utterly dominating one-goal lead could be overcome, not even by four attackers going all-out.

That's my guess, at least. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is just the greatest reply.

Good job champ.

When they go 4-2-4 you should go 3-2-5. Then straight after the commentry says team x has changed more defensive. Then there formation wil be defensive then just go back and stick time wasting high and it all works out.

Every action should have a reaction, i guess

What is 4-2-4? I'm on these forums nearly every day and i've never heard of this before.

Its threads like this that made me stop coming on these forums. There is no point to it its just some guy moaning that the AI tried to win a match on a management sim without any sort of constructive comment or request for advice.

Yes the game can be tough but that is the challenge. Of course if you are winning a match with a few minutes to go the opposition will throw caution to the wind and try and win it or did you think that the AI would just simply think "its a fair cop we're beaten lets just play the same tactics that have prooved fruitless thus far"

I cant tell you how bored of these "this game sucks" and "this game is too hard" threads I am. Please for all ourr sakes if you are going to complain about the game please have some sort of valid point or conclusion and not just simply waste everyones time with pointless rants. ( much like this one )

Whenever I come up against the 4-2-4 I just put everyone behind the ball, go ultra-defensive, closing down to own area, tackling to hard.

Just kick the living crap out of the opposition so they don't get a shot at goal, and suprisingly it works most of the time.

Originally posted by Cometdude:

Its threads like this that made me stop coming on these forums. There is no point to it its just some guy moaning that the AI tried to win a match on a management sim without any sort of constructive comment or request for advice.

Yes the game can be tough but that is the challenge. Of course if you are winning a match with a few minutes to go the opposition will throw caution to the wind and try and win it or did you think that the AI would just simply think "its a fair cop we're beaten lets just play the same tactics that have prooved fruitless thus far"

I cant tell you how bored of these "this game sucks" and "this game is too hard" threads I am. Please for all ourr sakes if you are going to complain about the game please have some sort of valid point or conclusion and not just simply waste everyones time with pointless rants. ( much like this one )

Agreed, it add's to the challenge of the game, people didn't think it would be this easy did they?

Originally posted by happy slappy:

Whenever I come up against the 4-2-4 I just put everyone behind the ball, go ultra-defensive, closing down to own area, tackling to hard.

Just kick the living crap out of the opposition so they don't get a shot at goal, and suprisingly it works most of the time.

Hi, Do you move the slider to closing down in own area or whole pitch? I also try my best to just keep one man up front, set to defensive, put time wasting on and play short passing with a slow tempo, also move a DM in front of the back four or switch a sweeper there if no one suits that role.

Just wondered if closing down 'own area' would work better than what I do though and setclosing down to 'whole pitch'. I assumed mine meant that my players would close down, cut out passing options and hopefully get the ball before the opposition had chance to get to my 'own area'. Not critisising, just wondered if your idea would work better, suppose closing down in box specifically would mean blocking shots if they managed to get one off in the box.

I find counter attacking works really well, in fact I tend to score more against this tactic than I concede.

4-2-4 certainly does = goal... 3-1 up by the 83rd minute, 3-3 by 89th, so i go 4-2-4 and snatch it late in injury-time.

fight fire with fire.

Does anybody know if they use one of the 'preset 4-2-4' tactics or is the AI's tweaked?

Just a though as if we were 'fighting fire with fire' might as well use the preset one. If you have a better team you might just use the tactic better.

Originally posted by Rocknrollpear:

Does anybody know if they use one of the 'preset 4-2-4' tactics or is the AI's tweaked?

Just a though as if we were 'fighting fire with fire' might as well use the preset one. If you have a better team you might just use the tactic better.

I tried the preset 4-2-4 and it reset every slider and instruction. So I think it's the AI's tweaked.

AC Milan tried this when they were away to my Fiorentina team. We were 1-1, Fiorentina scored late on, Milan switched to 4-2-4, I kept attacking (as Fiorentina) and we scored twice in injury time to win 4-1

Originally posted by Rocknrollpear:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by happy slappy:

Whenever I come up against the 4-2-4 I just put everyone behind the ball, go ultra-defensive, closing down to own area, tackling to hard.

Just kick the living crap out of the opposition so they don't get a shot at goal, and suprisingly it works most of the time.

Hi, Do you move the slider to closing down in own area or whole pitch? I also try my best to just keep one man up front, set to defensive, put time wasting on and play short passing with a slow tempo, also move a DM in front of the back four or switch a sweeper there if no one suits that role.

Just wondered if closing down 'own area' would work better than what I do though and setclosing down to 'whole pitch'. I assumed mine meant that my players would close down, cut out passing options and hopefully get the ball before the opposition had chance to get to my 'own area'. Not critisising, just wondered if your idea would work better, suppose closing down in box specifically would mean blocking shots if they managed to get one off in the box. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Own area, nothing like last-ditch tackling to stop the opponent from scoring, of course, it doesn't always work.

Originally posted by happy slappy:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rocknrollpear:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by happy slappy:

Whenever I come up against the 4-2-4 I just put everyone behind the ball, go ultra-defensive, closing down to own area, tackling to hard.

Just kick the living crap out of the opposition so they don't get a shot at goal, and suprisingly it works most of the time.

Hi, Do you move the slider to closing down in own area or whole pitch? I also try my best to just keep one man up front, set to defensive, put time wasting on and play short passing with a slow tempo, also move a DM in front of the back four or switch a sweeper there if no one suits that role.

Just wondered if closing down 'own area' would work better than what I do though and setclosing down to 'whole pitch'. I assumed mine meant that my players would close down, cut out passing options and hopefully get the ball before the opposition had chance to get to my 'own area'. Not critisising, just wondered if your idea would work better, suppose closing down in box specifically would mean blocking shots if they managed to get one off in the box. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Own area, nothing like last-ditch tackling to stop the opponent from scoring, of course, it doesn't always work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I played the most hideously defensive tactics I've ever used when I took Sampdoria to Inter Milan once - we were magnificently rubbish - 34% possession, ~45% pass completion, 0 shots on goal, but we were holding them 0-0 until they inevitably got a penalty and won 1-0. I wasn't even using hard tackling either, but I hate sitting back and just letting another team attack me for 90 minutes (or even 10 minutes - look what happened to Czech Republic against Turkey)

I gotta say the 4-2-4 doesn't work for the CPU every time....

I managed Millwall and we were in the 2nd leg of the Championship Playoff semi away at Wolves..

1st leg, we drew 3-3 at home, and the 2nd leg was away at Molineux.. At FT it was 2-2 so 5-5 aggregate and extra time we go..

1st period goes quite uneventful, no goals..

at the start of the 2nd period, Wolves go 4-2-4..

Straightaway i turn to my defensive formation (well its not mine, its one of Vodu's which always seems to keep the CPU out for me!) and in the 118th minute, after another uneventful period, they played a crazy ball across their defence and my AMC nipped in and ran clear, half the pitch before shooting straight at the goaly!!! anyway, it didn't matter cos my striker was on hand to tap the rebound into the empty net!!!!

basically, they'd all piled up front so my AMC and striker had the freedom of the pitch to send us to Wembley (where we beat Brum 1-0)!!

So its not all doomed when the CPU goes 4-2-4, you can take advantage of it!!

Using the 4-2-4 against the AI give's me a sense of satisfaction as well, played a game against Grays last night, I was St. Albans, 1-0 down away with 10 minutes to go, decided to go 4-2-4 and go all out attack, won the game 2-1.

I think the time I was the most angry was when I played with a Swedish team in the UEFA Cup against Reading. We were the better team in the 1st leg at home, had 1-1 when we got a man sent off. Still played well but not scoring and in the end my players were so tired they were dragging themselves on the pitch! Reading went into 1-4 lead, and for some reason they switched to 4-2-4 with 10min left! I tell you, I've never managed a team that has been so pressed back into the lap of their own goalkeeper as these players was! They somehow didn't conceed, but I found it strange Reading went 4-2-4, AI teams usually only do this when they are 1/2-0 down or at times when level.

Think Manchester C is the only team that has never gone with that formation, they usually switch to 3-5-2 when I've played them. It kind of feels more realistic, compared to the 4-2-4. But spendning enough time looking at the full match and not the highlights I've come to terms with what I need to do to stop them scoring, and now my team even takes advantage of all the space that opens up and kills them off completely.

To put it simple. I usually play are very attacking 4-2-3-1, no DMC. When they go 4-2-4 this formation is suicide, at least for me. But like I said, by watching and learning from misstakes and tactics, it's as easy as to put the two MC's as DMC's and move my very attacking wingers further down the pitch. Short pass, low tempo. Sometimes I even have 3 DMC's. There might be other solutions, even more simple not having to really change formation much, just some settings. But I've found this effective enough, and it works for me. Though I myself have never managed with a 4-2-4 formation, we create nothing.

I usually match it with something equally offensive... I normally get an extra goal from the opposition doing this.

I used to get really annoyed with this.

Now I hardly ever conceed a goal. 8 goals in 27 premier league games.

Just learn to shut the game down.

I used to hate people saying its your tactics to me but it really is the problem.

The fact that this is an "old" issue, or it can be countered is irrelevant, it happens with EVERY AI team that is losing at around the 80th minutue. It's unrealistic that every team you play revert to this tactic. This to me is a bug/fault with the game and needs to be tweaked.

It gets back to there being more varied level of skill and tactics on the AI's behalf. At present thre is no individuality between AI managers and theres no varying level of difficulty between each AI manager.

Originally posted by Jazz Capone:

Im winnig 1-0 with minutes to go and then the opposition changes to 4-2-4 and guess what ? .. They score everytime !!! Shock !!!

I'm winning 1-0 with minutes to go and then the opposition changes to 4-2-4 and guess what ? .. I change my tactics and I score everytime !!!

Originally posted by Box:

The fact that this is an "old" issue, or it can be countered is irrelevant, it happens with EVERY AI team that is losing at around the 80th minutue. It's unrealistic that every team you play revert to this tactic. This to me is a bug/fault with the game and needs to be tweaked.

It gets back to there being more varied level of skill and tactics on the AI's behalf. At present thre is no individuality between AI managers and theres no varying level of difficulty between each AI manager.

Spot on. Regarless of the obvious answer being that you must combat there switch of tactics to stop them scoring, it shouldnt have to be the case. In most games, the team leading would either still play like they were as it has obviously worked for 80 mins of the match, or they would just maybe play more defensively and waste a little time. You shouldnt have to fully change your shape to stop them and they shouldnt score every time just because you didnt go ultra defensive. Its not what would happen in real life. Its almost as if you get punished for not doing the '8th minute chore'.

Change your tactics man, you can either have lots of defenders, or midfielders, having lots of midfielders is alot better as it would stop their attack. They have 2 in midfield? You put 5 there and put on a pacey attacker from the bench, put counter attack on and all midfielders to hold onto the ball. Its annoying that they do that, but sometimes you just gotta do it. Happens alot to me btw, but getting used to changing tactics alot.

Originally posted by Box:

present thre is no individuality between AI managers and theres no varying level of difficulty between each AI manager.

Yes there is, teams play very differently on the game. Try playing against, say, Liverpool and then Rangers and then telling me they played a similar style. Every team will try and get you if they're a goal down going into the last 10-15 mins, it's common sense.

What I've found interesting is that if I switch to 4-2-4 my opponents frequently don't change their tactics.

I agree that every team changing to 4-2-4 for the last ten minutes is not exactly realistic. However the 4-2-4 is fairly straightforward to counter. I recently turned a tight 3-2 advantage in my favour into a comfortable 5-2 victory when the AI switched to 4-2-4. If you get your back 4 sorted 4-2-4 will rarely mean goal.

I usually go like for like.

If the opposition goes 4-2-4, I go 4-2-4.

Seems to work most of the time!!

i prefer the 1-10 formation

Originally posted by Jaw Knee Rot Tin:

I agree that every team changing to 4-2-4 for the last ten minutes is not exactly realistic.

It's not always 4-2-4, I've seen 4-3-3 and 2-3-5 quite often as well.

Originally posted by nine_iron:

i prefer the 1-10 formation

It's easy to beat 10 midfielders if you know how to play domino.

Originally posted by Nomis07:

What is 4-2-4? I'm on these forums nearly every day and i've never heard of this before.

Number of the devil iirc.

It's not just when you're one goal up. I've seen teams switch to the 4-2-4 when they are 3 goals up. I just don't understand it; are they trying to add insult to injury? Improve their goal difference?

Definitive tactic on defending 4-2-4

1. Log on to FM forums (general forum OR tactics)

2. Click on the "Find" search facility (top left)

3. Type either "4-2-4" or "424"

4. Click on "Go"

5. Select one of the million-odd other threads on this subject and experiment with a couple of those nuggets of advice.

6. Sit back and soak up the pressure. Never worry about this incredibly easy-to-counter tactic ever again.

7. Until FM09 maybe

Originally posted by eaimua:

It's not just when you're one goal up. I've seen teams switch to the 4-2-4 when they are 3 goals up. I just don't understand it; are they trying to add insult to injury? Improve their goal difference?

Yes is the simple answer. They probably think "ha stupid human is a crap manager, now lets destroy them" I do it as well, I was beating a rival team 4-0 and reverted to 4-3-3 all out attack in a bid to please the fans with an emphatic victory, I won 6-0 and the match confidence bar was full.

Originally posted by pelicanstuff:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Box:

present thre is no individuality between AI managers and theres no varying level of difficulty between each AI manager.

Yes there is, teams play very differently on the game. Try playing against, say, Liverpool and then Rangers and then telling me they played a similar style. Every team will try and get you if they're a goal down going into the last 10-15 mins, it's common sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only diffrence between AI opponants is teh quality of their teams. The AI always knows which formation will work best against you and is nto prone to mistakes, when it is getting beat it switches to 4-2-4 in the last few minutes of the match regardless of teh team it's playing with.

There is no margin for error between managers, playing against Jose Mourinhio is exactly the same as playing against Kevin Keegan in game. I can only long for your ignorance of this so that I can go back to enjoying this game.

This 4-2-4 attack is really begining to spoil my game I didnt seem to notice it as much before 8.0.2, is it worth going back a patch to reduce it's effect?

I think there is individulaity between teams, but not necessarily managers. I've met Juventus a few times in Europe and despite 4 different managers since I started my save they always play the same style. Managers don't seem to impose anything of their own football beliefs into the teams they take over i.e. their profile might read 4-4-2 as preferred tactic, but they don't use it and seem to revert to the tactic the team is used to rather than the tactic they are used to.

I haven't found 4-2-4 to be ruining my game and I still think that it is easy to combat with some tactical adjustment (although I very rarely do and very rarely fall foul of the 4-2-4 despite this), but I agree with the point that there is no difference between teams and every team in the world seems to have a last ditch 4-2-4 tactic.

I haven't found 4-2-4 to be ruining my game and I still think that it is easy to combat with some tactical adjustment

I completely agree with this. The only adjustment I make is to turn off forward runs for the FBs and put them on specific FL/FR man-marking. I rarely concede against the 4-2-4; the only time I might is when the AI makes one of those lightening changes and I can't stop the game in time to counter.

I really don't understand all the fuss that surrounds 4-2-4.

Originally posted by pelicanstuff:

It's not always 4-2-4, I've seen 4-3-3 and 2-3-5 quite often as well.

Well only one team has ever played differently against me and that is ManC that usually go a more realisitc way with a 3-5-2 formation. I've only encountered 2-3-5 in last couple of minutes when teams switch from 4-2-4 and are still behind.

SI really need to change this for FM09. Don't think 4-2-4 is that usuall and that every single team (well almost) use it. Most common is teams sacrifice a fullback for another striker or move a centreback into attack. 3-4-3 or something like moving fullbacks higher up the pitch would be better I think to add to the realism.

Originally posted by Jaw Knee Rot Tin:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I haven't found 4-2-4 to be ruining my game and I still think that it is easy to combat with some tactical adjustment

I completely agree with this. The only adjustment I make is to turn off forward runs for the FBs and put them on specific FL/FR man-marking. I rarely concede against the 4-2-4; the only time I might is when the AI makes one of those lightening changes and I can't stop the game in time to counter.

I really don't understand all the fuss that surrounds 4-2-4. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, it's not the fact that it's casung problems too much tactically, it's the fact that its too common and that it does almost always result in the AI team scoring if you dont make some kind of defensive tactical change.

I'm not sure whether it is the formation or simply the increased motivation level of opposition ie the appear to win every ball and keep up pressure.

Certainly playing with good teams this factor appears to disappear without changing tactic, hectic yes goal no.

I find the best way to counter the 424 issue is to attack and play wide, it may not always work but it gives you a chance on the counter. Also having extended highlights on helps to see how the pattern of play is developing.

I find the best way to counter the 424 issue is to attack and play wide, it may not always work but it gives you a chance on the counter. Also having extended highlights on helps to see how the pattern of play is developing.

Originally posted by Box:

Again, it's not the fact that it's casung problems too much tactically, it's the fact that its too common and that it does almost always result in the AI team scoring if you dont make some kind of defensive tactical change.

It's hard to argue against that tbh, unfortunately I think the point will be lost in the mirky world that is 4-2-4 cheat believers rather than being recognised as a valid point

I switch my tactic to 5-1-3-1 around the 80 mins mark and it cancel out the 4-2-4 very effectively.