DVD constantly in drive?

Why does FM2010 need the DVD constantly in the drive (whilst not installing via Steam obviously)?

On previous versions, it just had to be in upon loading up the game, and could then be removed (there was even a prompt telling you this was the case!).

Personally, I have a large monitor and like to play FM in windowed mode, with the DVD playing along side it, but now that's not possible. Was just wondering why this has changed and whether there is the possibility of it being reverted back in the future.

Because they decided on promoting Steam and for anyone who finds Steam annoying, unresponsive and unsupportive well tough, they dont seem to care. Bring back Unilock or have another option in future.

With regard to drm crap etc, Steam is as good as it's going to get in my opinion.

It's not anywhere near as annoying as some people like to make out. It just depends on how you want your games. I'm quite lazy and prefer digital downloads anyway so for me steam is an excellent thing.

Steam may be an option but its annoying as its run separately to the game meaning that it has its own updates, addons and features. all of which no gamer asked for when purchasing FM. All they wanted was FM, there may be exceptions but if FM were to say "part of Steam", I'm sure many ppl wouldnt purchase it.

too bad all the games in Steam cost more money than when you buy the CD in a web store....

Thats why I will never use steam.

That and the fact you never trully own them. Check out the T&Cs it states that you abide by steam rules in installing a game that will forever be linked to your account. iow, its not yours anymore.

Because they decided on promoting Steam and for anyone who finds Steam annoying, unresponsive and unsupportive well tough, they dont seem to care. Bring back Unilock or have another option in future.

Indeed. What annoys me is that anyone who illegally downloads the game have neither of the problems of Steam or DVD in drive. It's just another failed attempt at stopped piracy which ends up hurting the paying consumer.

Except they will argue that steam is more effective though using up more system resources and basically taing away your game from you and attaching it to an account that you must always keep with you makes this a flawed statement.

Bring back Unilock

Seconded Steam is a hassle.

I may be wrong here, but don't the digital download versions of FM2010 (not Steam) allow you to play using an activation code and no CD?

I may be wrong here, but don't the digital download versions of FM2010 (not Steam) allow you to play using an activation code and no CD?

Probably but some of us prefer a boxed version and the prices quoted for a digital version is on the norm much higher.

Probably but some of us prefer a boxed version and the prices quoted for a digital version is on the norm much higher.

I suppose it is down to personal preference and what you find important then.

I don't mind either way. I don't really like having the disc in the drive all the time but at least it meant I knew I could play it on release day this year

So you want a boxed version, and don't want to use steam? And yet complain that SI haven't offered a reasonable system?

Wow.

I really don't see the objection to steam anyway. It's unobtrusive, has a tiny memory footprint, lets you install the game on a netbook or the like without digging out a portable DVD drive.. It's probably the most consumer friendly DRM on the market.

So you want a boxed version, and don't want to use steam? And yet complain that SI haven't offered a reasonable system?

Wow.

I really don't see the objection to steam anyway. It's unobtrusive, has a tiny memory footprint, lets you install the game on a netbook or the like without digging out a portable DVD drive.. It's probably the most consumer friendly DRM on the market.

You obviously dont know Steam then. It uses up resources, has an attachment to your copy of the game that can never be removed and more importantly it gains information on your use of the system without your permission. Its the most consumer unfriendly DRM on the market. Try buying a Desktop before making such comments, laptops are not for continuous use so its a silly comment to make in the first place.

You obviously dont know Steam then. It uses up resources, has an attachment to your copy of the game that can never be removed and more importantly it gains information on your use of the system without your permission. Its the most consumer unfriendly DRM on the market. Try buying a Desktop before making such comments, laptops are not for continuous use so its a silly comment to make in the first place.

Actually I have a couple of (self made rather than bought) desktops, as well as a netbook. Who cares if it is or isn't for continuous use (and I'd argue they are made to be used regularly), the fact is they are a major part of the market right now, and Steam caters for them really well.

Steam uses very little in the way of resources. When I've used an external DVD to install FM09, then moved to steam instead, there was no noticable difference. A quick ctrl-alt-delete would also tell you that it's only using 25 MB of ram, which is less than MSN Messenger for instance. Hardly resouce intensive.

As for being attached to your copy of the game, well of course it is if you install via steam. What else do you expect? Install using the CD and the CD's DRM is permanently attached to your game too!

Consumer unfriendly methods are a set number of installations (EA), always online to play (like the new Ubisoft games), rootkit installing methods like certain version of securom, etc. Steam doesn't create rootkits, it doesn't need to be online to play, doesn't restrict the amount of times you can install... It doesn't actually break any of the "good DRM" rules. In fact, it adds to the game with the Steam Community options.

Have you actually tried Steam?

Finally, it steals information on your machine's specs? Seriously, take off the tin hat. It's doing that so it can give game makers feedback on what sort of hardware their users use, in order for them to better test on similar setups and to give a good benchmark of a good minimum spec for a game. It in no way negatively affects you as an individual.

For someone who doesn't know steam well, I seem to be buying more and more games through it these days!

What is the problem with this so called "attachment" on FM? I use Steam and I have absolutely no problems with it and I am finding that it only uses about 40 MB of RAM when it loads up and only 7.8MB when FM is running! And wahat is the crap about stealing system specs?! They ask you if u want to partcipate, it is voluntary!

I don't think you have used steam before. And Laptops not for continuos use?! I have had a laptop for a year with FM, The Sims 3 and COD 4 and 5 running on it and they all work fine!

What is the problem with this so called "attachment" on FM? I use Steam and I have absolutely no problems with it and I am finding that it only uses about 40 MB of RAM when it loads up and only 7.8MB when FM is running! And wahat is the crap about stealing system specs?! They ask you if u want to partcipate, it is voluntary!

I don't think you have used steam before. And Laptops not for continuos use?! I have had a laptop for a year with FM, The Sims 3 and COD 4 and 5 running on it and they all work fine!

Even if a laptop is your preferred method of gaming, there is no reason why Steam should be a prerequisite. If you like it then good on you but it shouldn't be the norm. I do use Steam and have done before, on one occassion I had to sell on my account because I got rid of the game and was unable to uninstall it which is stupid. I didnt want it on my account so I flogged the game and account. It was my game, I paid for it and yet Steam were forbidding me from dispossing of it. That is why I dont think any of you know about Steam or have even read the T&Cs regarding Steam. And yes a laptop was created for on the move, not to be left at home all the time and plugged into the mains. It actually has a battery charger and not a stadard plug system for a reason and that is why life expectancy lately is rather short on a laptop. If you're going to be stuck indoors all the time then its a Desktop you need, laptop is for what it says on the name, your lap, not a table.

what do you mean "disposing of it"? do you mean uninstalling it? because they do allow that but it just remains in the "my games" section of steam saying "not installed". I do not understand what you problem is with steam. And it isn't the norm, if you didnt want to use the dvd then you could digitally download it from many places and that means you do not have to use the DVD. I do not understand why people complain about it when there are other methods of playing it.

I dont understand why ppl defend Steam. Do they pay you?

Digital downloads cost more money. Why should Ipay more just because I dont want to use a crap system like Steam. Therefore there are no other equal methods in terms of price and punishing someone economically for not wanting to use a system that has nothing to do with the game is not considered economically obvious.

As for dispossing of it I mean giving it or selling it to someone else. Once I dont want it why should I keep it? Its my game and my money that was spent on it, not Steam's, so who are they to make decisions for me?

i take it my post was deleted because of the option i gave yet somebody else has said it and it stays, mmmmmmmmm?

I dont understand why ppl defend Steam. Do they pay you?

Digital downloads cost more money. Why should Ipay more just because I dont want to use a crap system like Steam. Therefore there are no other equal methods in terms of price and punishing someone economically for not wanting to use a system that has nothing to do with the game is not considered economically obvious.

You shouldn't have to pay more, that is your choice, but what is your beef with people that use Steam for ease of use? Or with people who can only really use Steam? I used Steam to purchase for the first time this year after activating 09 on it last year. Guess what? No problems, despite me running it on a laptop! Sure, I could have saved some cash and bought the boxed version on pre-order or got it from a shop. Neither were the easiest option for em this year. Steam was.

As for dispossing of it I mean giving it or selling it to someone else. Once I dont want it why should I keep it? Its my game and my money that was spent on it, not Steam's, so who are they to make decisions for me?

It's not your game, you buy the licence to play the game, not the actual game itself. It will be covered in the games EULA.

You shouldn't have to pay more, that is your choice, but what is your beef with people that use Steam for ease of use? Or with people who can only really use Steam? I used Steam to purchase for the first time this year after activating 09 on it last year. Guess what? No problems, despite me running it on a laptop! Sure, I could have saved some cash and bought the boxed version on pre-order or got it from a shop. Neither were the easiest option for em this year. Steam was.

It's not your game, you buy the licence to play the game, not the actual game itself. It will be covered in the games EULA.

Actually incorrect on both accounts. Regarding Steam, why should you pay more? Why are you making ppl who dont use Steam pay more, its a form of discrimination and that is not what buying a product is all about. My problem with Steam is the same as ppl defending Steam. If they defend for bizarre reasons (imo) then I will criticise for the same reasons (bizarre to them). You should not have to pay more for using a certain sysytem above another. Steam is not consistent, in different countries they have a different price and support is via email only and takes about 48hrs. Not everyone has Internet 24/7 (yes even in 2010) and not everyone has a computer able to have a system running that is using up resources. Plus and most importantly, not everyone wants to ok a system they didnt purchase. They paid for FM, not Steam.

Your second point is not even valid. According to Steam T&C's which I recommend you to read, your license once activated through Steam passes to be property of Steam and its parent company as long as you abide by the guidelines they setout, which are constantly altered anyhow. So in other words, you are borrowing FM, not buying it as the license is not yours (according to Steam, it becomes their license). And you are free to do as you wish with your license as long as you abide by the rules of law. This means you can sell it but you have to sell the original copy you have and not a copy of a copy.

Not everyone has Internet 24/7 (yes even in 2010) and not everyone has a computer able to have a system running that is using up resources..

You don't need to be able to have internet 24/7 to run games in steam. And if you don't have the resources to run steam, you don't have the resources to play FM.

Here in Belgium Steam is more expensive btw then buying the games in an (English) shop.

You shouldn't have to pay more, that is your choice, but what is your beef with people that use Steam for ease of use? Or with people who can only really use Steam? I used Steam to purchase for the first time this year after activating 09 on it last year. Guess what? No problems, despite me running it on a laptop! Sure, I could have saved some cash and bought the boxed version on pre-order or got it from a shop. Neither were the easiest option for em this year. Steam was.

It's not your game, you buy the licence to play the game, not the actual game itself. It will be covered in the games EULA.

You don't need to be able to have internet 24/7 to run games in steam. And if you don't have the resources to run steam, you don't have the resources to play FM.

Here in Belgium Steam is more expensive btw then buying the games in an (English) shop.

I did say steam is more expensive but so are the digital options. Therefore why encourage ppl to use a system that makes you pay more when the price set by SI is standard and therefore the extra money does not go to them. You do have to have Steam connected and for updates you need to be logged in also they tried (failed imo) to add those achievements via Steam and that also requires a constant connection. Interesting as being constantly connected allows for data gathering which is something many ppl are not happy with as was noted after one of Miles' posts on the subject.

Actually incorrect on both accounts. Regarding Steam, why should you pay more? Why are you making ppl who dont use Steam pay more, its a form of discrimination and that is not what buying a product is all about. My problem with Steam is the same as ppl defending Steam. If they defend for bizarre reasons (imo) then I will criticise for the same reasons (bizarre to them). You should not have to pay more for using a certain sysytem above another. Steam is not consistent, in different countries they have a different price and support is via email only and takes about 48hrs. Not everyone has Internet 24/7 (yes even in 2010) and not everyone has a computer able to have a system running that is using up resources. Plus and most importantly, not everyone wants to ok a system they didnt purchase. They paid for FM, not Steam.

Your second point is not even valid. According to Steam T&C's which I recommend you to read, your license once activated through Steam passes to be property of Steam and its parent company as long as you abide by the guidelines they setout, which are constantly altered anyhow. So in other words, you are borrowing FM, not buying it as the license is not yours (according to Steam, it becomes their license). And you are free to do as you wish with your license as long as you abide by the rules of law. This means you can sell it but you have to sell the original copy you have and not a copy of a copy.

I take your points on board, but I don't get why you criticise people who choose Steam. I chose Steam so I accepted the fact I was going to pay more. If I was that unhappy about the price then I would have had to get the boxed version or another digital download. What your saying about price is wrong. Look at any product that is sild in different stores, supermarkets for example. Very seldom they have a uniform price from Tesco to Sainsbury to ASDA is it?

I don't have any problem with Uniloc either. I see your point about a choice should you not want the DVD in the drive and just having the one option of activating online which is through Steam. Fair enough, bring back Uniloc to add an option for people.

I didn't know that Steam owned the licence, but esentially whoever owns it, that is all you are buying, a licence to use the game and not the game itself.

Still, I find it easy for me and my 3 year old bag standard laptop runs everything and more fine.

i take it my post was deleted because of the option i gave yet somebody else has said it and it stays, mmmmmmmmm?

By the looks of it, neither post was reported so it probably just came down to a mod noticing yours at the time, but no one spotting this one. We can't possibly read every single post and thread, sometimes we need to rely on the users giving us a bit of help by reporting posts.

I take your points on board, but I don't get why you criticise people who choose Steam. I chose Steam so I accepted the fact I was going to pay more. If I was that unhappy about the price then I would have had to get the boxed version or another digital download. What your saying about price is wrong. Look at any product that is sild in different stores, supermarkets for example. Very seldom they have a uniform price from Tesco to Sainsbury to ASDA is it?

I don't have any problem with Uniloc either. I see your point about a choice should you not want the DVD in the drive and just having the one option of activating online which is through Steam. Fair enough, bring back Uniloc to add an option for people.

I didn't know that Steam owned the licence, but esentially whoever owns it, that is all you are buying, a licence to use the game and not the game itself.

Still, I find it easy for me and my 3 year old bag standard laptop runs everything and more fine.

I am not criticising ppl who use steam and Im sorry if thats the impression. What I dont like to see is ppl who use Steam praising it and criticising others for finding a problem with it. Like all system its not perfect but what bugs me about it apart from the obvious price is that it takes control of the license which you paid for. Therefore you may aswell give your money away and that is what bugs me.

As for supermarket prices, they are not all the same but the set price is. Look online and you'll see a price difference of maybe 5pence or a pound from one retailer to another. SI charge the same to everyone then the seller is who price marks. In the case of Steam that markup is rediculous. Considering you dont get a case, physical disk or booklet if you buy through Steam in some places they are charging a mark up of 300-500%. Ppl have claimed here that they were seeing a price of $60 in US or Australia. That is rediculous.

Ppl have claimed here that they were seeing a price of $60 in US or Australia. That is rediculous.

Here in Belgium the price for FM 2010 is 50 euro (67 USD) on steam. Btw this isn't more then in the average Belgium shop.

Here in Belgium the price for FM 2010 is 50 euro (67 USD) on steam. Btw this isn't more then in the average Belgium shop.

There are countless examples where this is not the case. Plus you have options to pay less, Im sure a shop somewhere will charge less be it online or in the high street or backstreet. Either way with Steam no booklet, physical disk or case so it shoudln't be the same price.

There are countless examples where this is not the case. Plus you have options to pay less, Im sure a shop somewhere will charge less be it online or in the high street or backstreet. Either way with Steam no booklet, physical disk or case so it shoudln't be the same price.

To be fair you can't use that as an argument. Steam will have other costly overheads that physical versions don't have and vice-versa. Servers aren't cheap to run.

There are countless examples where this is not the case. Plus you have options to pay less, Im sure a shop somewhere will charge less be it online or in the high street or backstreet.

If only. For us it's much cheaper to buy games in English online shops then to buy it the shop next door.

Either way with Steam no booklet, physical disk or case so it shoudln't be the same price.

That was an example to tell you you're right about the price . However they do have some very good actions (10 topgames for 50 euro, ...)

To be fair you can't use that as an argument. Steam will have other costly overheads that physical versions don't have and vice-versa. Servers aren't cheap to run.

That is no concern of the gamer. He/she pays for a product not for a company to cover its overheads. That problem is for Steam to sort out, if they dont make enough money by charging the expected "normal" price then maybe they should close down.

If only. For us it's much cheaper to buy games in English online shops then to buy it the shop next door.

That was an example to tell you you're right about the price . However they do have some very good actions (10 topgames for 50 euro, ...)

But what if you only want to buy FM? Not everyone wants to buy other games, especially 10 games. The option should be as equal as possible for all and not exclusive to some.

That is no concern of the gamer. He/she pays for a product not for a company to cover its overheads. That problem is for Steam to sort out, if they dont make enough money by charging the expected "normal" price then maybe they should close down.

Or they can charge the price they choose to charge, then leave it up to individual consumers to decide if they are willing to pay that price.

You know, capitalism. Free market economy. That thing I live in, and I guess you do too.

If steam were overpricing by a stupid amount, people would stop buying from them and they'd either low the prices or shut down. As it stands, people are happy to pay the "Steam Tax", so it obviously is a fair price.

As for being discriminated against, seriously. Can we not pull that card every time something we dislike happens? There's nothing discriminatory about setting a price the market will bear. I guess you also think it's discrimination that London pubs cahrge more for beer than Leeds pubs? Unless Steam is setting a higher price for you than someone else in the same territory based upon a protected class such as your sex, race or age, it isn't discrimination.

Or they can charge the price they choose to charge, then leave it up to individual consumers to decide if they are willing to pay that price.

You know, capitalism. Free market economy. That thing I live in, and I guess you do too.

If steam were overpricing by a stupid amount, people would stop buying from them and they'd either low the prices or shut down. As it stands, people are happy to pay the "Steam Tax", so it obviously is a fair price.

As for being discriminated against, seriously. Can we not pull that card every time something we dislike happens? There's nothing discriminatory about setting a price the market will bear. I guess you also think it's discrimination that London pubs cahrge more for beer than Leeds pubs? Unless Steam is setting a higher price for you than someone else in the same territory based upon a protected class such as your sex, race or age, it isn't discrimination.

I'd love to know the true numbers of Steam buyers for FM10 because Im sure they're not that big. A free market suggests freedom to choose, what freedom is there when they force you to use Steam or stick with the DVD in the drive? That is capitalism and not a free market economy. Now unilock, like it or not was a free market economy because that was an equal to Steam in freeing up the game so that the DVD was not in the drive.

You have a strange view on what constitutes fair pratice, under your views on this I have the right to charge someone double because I dont like them while someone I do like can get in free. The set price by SI is always the same, irrelevant of who or what method they use. Im sure Sega tell the sellers to stick to a price between x and y. However Steam flouts this by not being based in a given economy and therefore charges what it likes. That is unfair practice and is of no good to the consumer. I'd hate to live under your economic rules.

I don't have any problem with Uniloc either. I see your point about a choice should you not want the DVD in the drive and just having the one option of activating online which is through Steam. Fair enough, bring back Uniloc to add an option for people.

I didn't know that Steam owned the licence, but esentially whoever owns it, that is all you are buying, a licence to use the game and not the game itself.

Still, I find it easy for me and my 3 year old bag standard laptop runs everything and more fine.

So let get me straight you paid more for FM via steam then from the box, right? And that you don't actually owned the game, but only license?

Is it me or is this doesn't make any sense? You pay more and never own the game.

Or they can charge the price they choose to charge, then leave it up to individual consumers to decide if they are willing to pay that price.

You know, capitalism. Free market economy. That thing I live in, and I guess you do too.

If steam were overpricing by a stupid amount, people would stop buying from them and they'd either low the prices or shut down. As it stands, people are happy to pay the "Steam Tax", so it obviously is a fair price.

As for being discriminated against, seriously. Can we not pull that card every time something we dislike happens? There's nothing discriminatory about setting a price the market will bear. I guess you also think it's discrimination that London pubs cahrge more for beer than Leeds pubs? Unless Steam is setting a higher price for you than someone else in the same territory based upon a protected class such as your sex, race or age, it isn't discrimination.

if you ant to pay more for games that you never owned, then no thank you. if you like steam then I'm happy for you. But me i prefer to buy the box version, because is less expensive and I actually own the game and not some license.

I'd love to know the true numbers of Steam buyers for FM10 because Im sure they're not that big. A free market suggests freedom to choose, what freedom is there when they force you to use Steam or stick with the DVD in the drive? That is capitalism and not a free market economy. Now unilock, like it or not was a free market economy because that was an equal to Steam in freeing up the game so that the DVD was not in the drive.

You have a strange view on what constitutes fair pratice, under your views on this I have the right to charge someone double because I dont like them while someone I do like can get in free. The set price by SI is always the same, irrelevant of who or what method they use. Im sure Sega tell the sellers to stick to a price between x and y. However Steam flouts this by not being based in a given economy and therefore charges what it likes. That is unfair practice and is of no good to the consumer. I'd hate to live under your economic rules.

You'd be correct if Steam didn't allow its service to be used through anything else other than buying with them. This clearly isn't the case, so really does negate your point

So let get me straight you paid more for FM via steam then from the box, right? And that you don't actually owned the game, but only license?

Is it me or is this doesn't make any sense? You pay more and never own the game.

If you buy a boxed copy you still only have the license to use the game. Nothing more

I quite agree with you that the boxed copy still is the way forward. But seeing as you can buy the boxed copy & use it through steam there's no real issue.

You'd be correct if Steam didn't allow its service to be used through anything else other than buying with them. This clearly isn't the case, so really does negate your point

So whats the alternative to using a boxed version without having the DVD in the drive all the time which isnt steam?

So whats the alternative to using a boxed version without having the DVD in the drive all the time which isnt steam?

There isn't one. Which quite frankly is wholly fair. Seeing as 99% of other games use either a DRM based system which is a lot more intrusive than steam now (Check ubisofts new offering for example ) Or require the disk in the drive all the time.

Sega / SI have decided to offer both as an option (And you can use both in tandem for gods sakes) It really does annoy me people getting on their high horse because a quite obviously bugged service last year is no longer available. Don't use steam if you don't like it, but the disk in drive method is one which has been used for this game ever since CM3. So it should be perfectly acceptable to anyone now.

There isn't one. Which quite frankly is wholly fair. Seeing as 99% of other games use either a DRM based system which is a lot more intrusive than steam now (Check ubisofts new offering for example ) Or require the disk in the drive all the time.

Sega / SI have decided to offer both as an option (And you can use both in tandem for gods sakes) It really does annoy me people getting on their high horse because a quite obviously bugged service last year is no longer available. Don't use steam if you don't like it, but the disk in drive method is one which has been used for this game ever since CM3. So it should be perfectly acceptable to anyone now.

Problem is you got us used to the other apparently bugged system. So we dont expect a disk in the drive anymore, it seems last century.

Seeing as there isnt any other option my original viewpoint does stand since what I have said from the biggining is that by being the only system to allow you to use game without disk (boxed version) Steam is not acting competitively and therefore ppl have the right to be unhappy. Apart from that they have no right to charge what they charge in some places, as this clearly sets a bad precedent for future sales.

Problem is you got us used to the other apparently bugged system. So we dont expect a disk in the drive anymore, it seems last century.

Seeing as there isnt any other option my original viewpoint does stand since what I have said from the biggining is that by being the only system to allow you to use game without disk (boxed version) Steam is not acting competitively and therefore ppl have the right to be unhappy. Apart from that they have no right to charge what they charge in some places, as this clearly sets a bad precedent for future sales.

Steam isn't bugged for 99.9% of users , hence why its the market leader in the field. Its that far ahead for a reason.

Oh and yes steam is acting competitively, because as I stated you can buy a boxed copy and activate using the code from that on Steam. Your argument is wholly null and void unless the only method to use the game through steam was via buying it from them themselves

Put it this way, the only way to use the mackintosh boxed version of the game (I'm a mac user by the way ) is with the disk in system. The only other option we have is direct to drive, which is in the situation you described. So you PC guys have it bloody lovely in comparison. It should be me moaning and not you for absolutely no reason

Steam isn't bugged for 99.9% of users , hence why its the market leader in the field. Its that far ahead for a reason.

Oh and yes steam is acting competitively, because as I stated you can buy a boxed copy and activate using the code from that on Steam. Your argument is wholly null and void unless the only method to use the game through steam was via buying it from them themselves

Put it this way, the only way to use the mackintosh boxed version of the game (I'm a mac user by the way ) is with the disk in system. The only other option we have is direct to drive, which is in the situation you described. So you PC guys have it bloody lovely in comparison. It should be me moaning and not you for absolutely no reason

Ah so no achievements for you? It isn't fair, is it?

Ah so no achievements for you? It isn't fair, is it?

Its as fair as it was for FM09 Unilock wasn't available for mac then either.

Its as fair as it was for FM09 Unilock wasn't available for mac then either.

So you do agree that Mac users have been neglected? I'm Mac and PC user.

So you do agree that Mac users have been neglected? I'm Mac and PC user.

Not at all. Seeing as the majority of games that are available for PC aren't for mac. I'm delighted SI develop it for both platforms

Not at all. Seeing as the majority of games that are available for PC aren't for mac. I'm delighted SI develop it for both platforms

Quite true, man.

While I'm at it, what are your perspectives for the third patch?

Quite true, man.

While I'm at it, what are your perspectives for the third patch?

Well seeing I'm fine with the game in its current state, I'm not too worried about the next patch, its still on schedule for when they said.

As for your first comment, I'll add the word 'natively'

You'd be correct if Steam didn't allow its service to be used through anything else other than buying with them. This clearly isn't the case, so really does negate your point

Even then he'd be wrong.

Having to keep the DVD in the drive when you buy the boxed copy doesn't stop it being a free market. It does make it a free market on two separate (similar) products though.

But yeah, you can buy boxed then register the code with Steam.

As for the fact it costs a touch more, my copy of FM was cheaper than in the shops but more than online shops sold it for. However with the postal strikes, I was more than happy to pay an extra fiver, tenner, or whatever it was for my copy. To a working adult it's really not a huge difference.

Problem is you got us used to the other apparently bugged system. So we dont expect a disk in the drive anymore, it seems last century.

Seeing as there isnt any other option my original viewpoint does stand since what I have said from the biggining is that by being the only system to allow you to use game without disk (boxed version) Steam is not acting competitively and therefore ppl have the right to be unhappy. Apart from that they have no right to charge what they charge in some places, as this clearly sets a bad precedent for future sales.

Wait, so now you want SI to set three, four or five different DRM systems and let you chose between them? Disk in drive, Steam, Unilock and a fourth option for those who hate the DVD in the drive, dislike Steam and don't trust unilock after last time?

They are already the only company I know of using TWO at a time, and giving you the option.

If you don't like Steam (and don't blame it on resources, if you can play FM then the tiny amount of ram steam takes up won't even register) then yes, you are stuck with the DVD in the drive. However, if I hated Steam I'd be stuck with not even being able to play MW2, AvP or any of Valve's own games. If I dislike Ubisoft's new DRM (and I do, only online games should require me to be online all the time to play... Broadband goes down occasionally!) then I can't play any Ubisoft game that comes out on PC. If I dislike securom I can't play a host of games. If I dislike one of FM's two DRM systems, I still have the option of the second one. That puts it ahead of anyone else running DRM on their games... And as far as I'm aware the only people that go completely DRM free are indie developers or Good Old Games, and they only have classics not modern games anyway.

Even then he'd be wrong.

Having to keep the DVD in the drive when you buy the boxed copy doesn't stop it being a free market. It does make it a free market on two separate (similar) products though.

But yeah, you can buy boxed then register the code with Steam.

As for the fact it costs a touch more, my copy of FM was cheaper than in the shops but more than online shops sold it for. However with the postal strikes, I was more than happy to pay an extra fiver, tenner, or whatever it was for my copy. To a working adult it's really not a huge difference.

Just an FYI, my 'you'd be right' wasn't in reference to it being a free market or not. It was in reference to Steam upping their prices to try and create a monopoly because its the only outlet to play the game without a disk.