Man Utd are too resistant to change

I'm not sure where to post this as I don't think its a bug, just a bit odd.

Has anybody else noticed that Man Utd seem to stick with the same starting XI until they start retiring?

I am in season 4 and they have spent over £140 million on new signings but despite this they never change their starting XI, even if they have signed better players.

For example, their standard lineup for this season is shown below.

So all 11 players are from their original squad.

Also, they are playing Hargreaves as their RB, despite signing 2 right backs in the last transfer window who are natural in that position and far better than him.

On a different note, anybody seen them struggle like this in the premiership?

Nice to see the Mackems riding high.

But no, in my game they signed Guiseppe Rossi in 09/10 and he has played up top with Rooney for the majority of the season, they also signed a left-winger from a top French club (his name escapes me) and he has played in most of the games, albeit quite poorly, he was voted worst signing of the season in the review at the end of the campaign.

Looking at your screen shot, some things quickly come to mind.

I do not want to say you have cheated in any way or have buffed your side/made others weaker - but something doesn't sit right with that league table and you winning the EPL so soon?

Id like to see the screen shot of your side the season you won the league, to see how close the league was.

Why is it that nearly every top side in your league has already lost 3+ games, yet you are some-what unrealistically flying away with the league - on top of that you won the league already so soon.

I have played 5 seasons of my current save, but also played with 2 other sides in other saves and most EPL sides like Arsenal, Man United, Man City and Chelsea rarely lose over 3-4 games all season.

In one of my seasons Chelsea finished undefeated, and in another Arsenal and Man City only lost once. I have lost only 3 games this season with West Ham (most of the losses have been freak games) and I am still 3rd with 8 games to go, where-as if it were real life - I would have probably won the EPL at the end of the season. Most times 90 points arent even enough to win the title!

I envy people who have strange results from top sides like you have shown because in my game, the top sides go on massive almost unrealistic runs without defeats and even a great season by my team still isn't enough to win.

can we have a screenie of ur first team squad plz?

I don't see what these comments have to do with his question - in response to the OP's question it does seem odd that Man Utd would buy two quality right backs and still play Hargreaves there.

Looking at your screen shot, some things quickly come to mind.

I do not want to say you have cheated in any way or have buffed your side/made others weaker - but something doesn't sit right with that league table and you winning the EPL so soon?

Id like to see the screen shot of your side the season you won the league, to see how close the league was.

Why is it that nearly every top side in your league has already lost 3+ games, yet you are some-what unrealistically flying away with the league - on top of that you won the league already so soon.

I have played 5 seasons of my current save, but also played with 2 other sides in other saves and most EPL sides like Arsenal, Man United, Man City and Chelsea rarely lose over 3-4 games all season.

In one of my seasons Chelsea finished undefeated, and in another Arsenal and Man City only lost once. I have lost only 3 games this season with West Ham (most of the losses have been freak games) and I am still 3rd with 8 games to go, where-as if it were real life - I would have probably won the EPL at the end of the season. Most times 90 points arent even enough to win the title!

I envy people who have strange results from top sides like you have shown because in my game, the top sides go on massive almost unrealistic runs without defeats and even a great season by my team still isn't enough to win.

The reason I am doing very well this season is because I have spend the whole of season 1, 2 & 3 perfecting the only tactic I have found which works in this game (I will post it in the tactics forum in a couple of days). I have also had most of my games against poor teams and in the few I have had against good teams the results have been 1-0, 2-1, close games.

I also agree that it is very rare to see the top teams lose badly.

I have never actually got into season 4 in FM10 before and before now I am yet to see the big 4 play so badly and while I think its odd, I'm not gonna complain.

Here is the screenshot of the first season where I won the league. It was in Season 2 however I don't think its that odd. It was an ugly season with a lot of games where I was outplayed but managed to grab a goal or two with counter attacks, and luckily my team took any chances they were given.

Here is my current squad.

I have put a blue line next to each regen.

My first team squad is tiny because all of my spare players who are not my first pick for my team or bench are under 18 and so are in the under 18 squad.

If you want me to talk you through the squad then here I go:

Ochoa - World class keeper, signed for £7.5m at the start of season 2.

Velasquez, Lamb, Egan, Prvulovic - All regen back 4, signed for a combined total of around £12m at the start of season 2 and 3.

Lorik Cana - In starting squad and while not a great player, is good enough to play as a solid anchor man.

Fernando Gago, Ismail Aissati - Signed for £5m and £8.5m at the start of the 1st and 3rd season respectively.

James Armstrong - Regen who appeared in my youth team at start of season 2.

Simon Vukcevic - £6m at the start of season 1.

Ryan Noble - Regen signed at start of season 2, aged 17. Is now a permanent fixture in the England team.

The reason for my tiny first team squad is due to my aim for this game which was to sign only regens after the 3rd season, so almost all of my players outside of my starting XI and subs are in the Under 18s.

I have so many regens in my first team because I have always had at least 8 scouts on permanent scouting missions looking for 17 year old or younger players and I have at least 4 star coaches for every area, and I am using my own training schedules which I have found to be very effective.

Happy now?

Oooh, that looks like a pretty decent side you've put together there. I remember Ochoa scoring from his own half for Mexico against Spain in the 2010 World Cup Final in one of my FM08 saves.

I'm just about to start my 6th season with Villa. Man Utd, have struggled since the second season on my game. They've bounced back a little recently though. They are one of the teams who challenge for 4th spot.

The biggest team in the League are City who have won the last 4 League titles.

There is no big 4 now, it's a big 3 of my Villa team (although that's only been for the last 2 seasons), City and Liverpool then you have Tottenham, Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea all in the mix for the positions between 4th and 7th. Underneath that it's anyone's guess. Burnley finished 8th last season.

It would appear that teams will have spells of dominance and then fade away... Just like real life.

Oh and Blackburn and Fulham are both mid table Championship teams.

ye ive seen this happen with man utd , in my leeds united save i think im in season 3, or 4 .

there currently 18th and have lost the last 4 matches i hope they go down!! i what rooney hes been injured in my save for 8 months mind you , no one has been scorin for them lol

I don't think i've seen an AI managed Man Utd do well in the last 4 FM games i've played, they always seem to implode. On FM08, they bought 1 player in 5 seasons, Jeremy Matieu, and finished mid-table, even with Ronaldo, Rooney ect.

This thread simply proves that the AI is not very clever and not "uber" or "cheating" or anything else that gamers often state about the AI.

The AI in this game is one of it's most obvious and greatest flaws.

In a single season in real life, teams will employ tactics on a game-by-game basis that direclty exploit the opponent. The AI cannot do this.

Across a period of several seasons in real life, teams will evolve their tactics and develop tactical theorems for the players in their side and the opponents and style of play they generally face. This most certainly does not happen.

Real life Barcelona for example have decided to swap a pure Striker for a player that it is in effect an "advanced Trequartista". This changes the dynamic of their play and allows them to play one touch, creative football right up to the opponents six yard line, while allowing every single player involved in the attacking five to take up every single position and play as either a playmaker or striker.

This can only happen in FM when SI agree with a researcher on the favoured formation and playstyle and role of players. It cannot happen naturally within the game.

The AI is stupid. It is in my opinion the biggest flaw in FM. It does not understand football whatsoever, it adapts football only by a few set rules according to what is happening in a match.

Whatever formation Alex Ferguson prefers to play in an FM game is the formation he will usually play for the rest of his career in that save. This is despite the fact that Alex Ferguson uses tactical and personell variation as a key weapon against every single team he plays.

People say the AI is "uber", "cheats" or is "designed to exploit your formation". If this were true then Alex Ferguson would be winning the league in most saves because of his amazing motivational skills combined to his REALISTIC adaption and exploitation of your team.

Manchester United fail in FM because the AI is completely incapable of adapting. The reason it catches people out tactically is because people are asleep at the wheel when the AI follows it rigid and basic and rather stupid code and swaps the RCM and LCM and RCF and LCF and switches to a more attacking strategy when a goal behind.

The AI is TERRIBLE. What does that say about the average human player? That they don't have the slightest clue about football and cannot be bothered to watch it.

And so the game is a "success". Success in FM10 is as "hard" as watching 90 minutes of football. Impossible for some, a mere fact of life for others

why fix something that aint broken?

I don't have a problem with this and I started as Man U probably because I sold Anderson, Fletcher and Evra

In season 2010-11, Man U won the title by 20 points (managed by Tony Mowbray)

I don't have a problem with this and I started as Man U probably because I sold Anderson, Fletcher and Evra

In season 2010-11, Man U won the title by 20 points (managed by Tony Mowbray)

Shame on for using 'Man U' TBH and being Man Utd's fan...

Gago after one season for 5m to Sunderland? :confused:

Gago after one season for 5m to Sunderland? :confused:

he often gets transfer listed due to the large number of players they have at that position (and of course their ability to sign even more).

who is the manager in your game right now (talking to the topic creator)? right now I am in 2013 and Martin O'Neill is their manager. I've seen in previous versions guys like Bryan Robson given the Man Utd job, and then they end up in the bottom half for obvious reasons. they're currently 2nd in the league with this lineup:

GK - Foster (7.19 avg)

RB - Gregory van der Wiel (7.25 avg) and Rafael (6.54 avg)

CB - Vidic (7.45 avg)

CB - Jonny Evans (7.60 avg)

LB - Evra (7.28 avg)

RM - Valencia (7.54 avg)

CM - Fletcher (7.39 avg)

CM - Anderson (7.10 avg)

LM - Tosic (7.34 avg)

ST - Welbeck (7.15 avg)

ST - Macheda (7.09 avg)

Rooney broke his leg and only just returned. So I'm pretty much seeing the same behavior you did - they have 20 million pound signings on the bench - but honestly I don't think it's a bug. I think Man Utd have a really high team reputation so the players stay; they have a good manager / facilities so they develop well; and they have a good, deep squad to begin with.

Shame on for using 'Man U' TBH and being Man Utd's fan...

I don't think it's any of your business to criticise me for the team I support and use on FM (btw, I manage Porto, I used to manage Man U) I can support any team I like and use any team I like on the database which I paid for

Think hes criticisiing the way you named it.

Well i wouldnt be surprised if this happened IRL to Man U(Ok, being at the bottom fight is too much), but they do have big loans and maybe the coming years you never know what could happen

Ayee ive noticed they buy players but dont change. They also out their youth players before their signings :confused:

Im not complaining though, makes one less rival at the top of the table

I don't think it's any of your business to criticise me for the team I support and use on FM (btw, I manage Porto, I used to manage Man U) I can support any team I like and use any team I like on the database which I paid for

Haha! You're totally missin' the point fella! You call you self a Man Utd fan and you didn't even understand for what I was critising you.

As I said...shame on you.

I also find that Utd NEVER sack Sir Alex, in the first season he finshed 4th and the second seaoson he finshed 9th and he never gets sacked lol

I'm not sure where to post this as I don't think its a bug, just a bit odd.

Has anybody else noticed that Man Utd seem to stick with the same starting XI until they start retiring?

I am in season 4 and they have spent over £140 million on new signings but despite this they never change their starting XI, even if they have signed better players.

For example, their standard lineup for this season is shown below.

So all 11 players are from their original squad.

Also, they are playing Hargreaves as their RB, despite signing 2 right backs in the last transfer window who are natural in that position and far better than him.

On a different note, anybody seen them struggle like this in the premiership?

Gago after one season for 5m to Sunderland? :confused:

Always transfer listed on my game for 5 million . Usually goes to Everton, Sunderland or Man City on mine.

They've turned into a mid-table team on mine (2021) and they decided to sell Rooney to Real but keep Ronaldo and Tevez. Gary Neville manages Fiorentina but I think he's taking over at West Brom soon as it was mentioned that he would be installed as manager after their recent take-over.

they're currently 2nd in the league with this lineup:

GK - Foster (7.19 avg)

RB - Gregory van der Wiel (7.25 avg) and Rafael (6.54 avg)

CB - Vidic (7.45 avg)

CB - Jonny Evans (7.60 avg)

LB - Evra (7.28 avg)

RM - Valencia (7.54 avg)

CM - Fletcher (7.39 avg)

CM - Anderson (7.10 avg)

LM - Tosic (7.34 avg)

ST - Welbeck (7.15 avg)

ST - Macheda (7.09 avg)

Rooney broke his leg and only just returned. So I'm pretty much seeing the same behavior you did - they have 20 million pound signings on the bench - but honestly I don't think it's a bug. I think Man Utd have a really high team reputation so the players stay; they have a good manager / facilities so they develop well; and they have a good, deep squad to begin with.

But the team undoubtedly has some weak areas, particularly the right-back and one or both wings, depending on how the younger players develop. In your team there, van der Wiel has been signed to cover one of those weak areas as Rafael presumably hasn't developed yet (or hasn't developed as well as he could), whereas Tosic on the left wing perhaps has developed quite nicely (I like him and play him a lot myself, but he hardly strikes me as an instant replacement for Ronaldo/Giggs). But the OP's situation is rather peculiar. I know that the AI likes to train Jonny Evans as a DL, so seeing him in that position doesn't actually strike me as particularly odd (though if Evra's still in the team, I'd be worried by Evans being played more in that position than Evra), but although he has some competence in the position, it DOES strike me as odd to see Owen Hargreaves (a DMC) in as a right-back, and Anderson (an AMC) in as a left winger if that is, as he says, their "standard lineup", especially if the team has actually signed players who are naturals in those positions.

Oh, and hi OP. I'm not stalking you, honest

I don't think it's any of your business to criticise me for the team I support and use on FM (btw, I manage Porto, I used to manage Man U) I can support any team I like and use any team I like on the database which I paid for

You missed the point mate, as a United fan you shouldn't use the phrase "Man U" because it comes from songs rivals sing about the Munich air crash.

Thats what he was getting at, not "shame on you for supporting united"

I started a new game today and for the 1st time decided not to play as Man Utd but pick my non-league hometown team to manage. At Christmas in the 1st season I had a quick look at the Premiership table keen to see how Man Utd were doing without me managing them. I was shocked to find they are in the relegation zone. I can't believe it with the talent pool of players they have and Fergie in charge they are 3rd from bottom.

You missed the point mate, as a United fan you shouldn't use the phrase "Man U" because it comes from songs rivals sing about the Munich air crash.

Thats what he was getting at, not "shame on you for supporting united"

Really? Man U fans don't use the phrase Man U?

Edit: Not being sarcastic or anything, I just didn't realise the term "Man U" had any connotations to Munich.

This thread simply proves that the AI is not very clever and not "uber" or "cheating" or anything else that gamers often state about the AI.

The AI in this game is one of it's most obvious and greatest flaws.

In a single season in real life, teams will employ tactics on a game-by-game basis that direclty exploit the opponent. The AI cannot do this.

Across a period of several seasons in real life, teams will evolve their tactics and develop tactical theorems for the players in their side and the opponents and style of play they generally face. This most certainly does not happen.

Real life Barcelona for example have decided to swap a pure Striker for a player that it is in effect an "advanced Trequartista". This changes the dynamic of their play and allows them to play one touch, creative football right up to the opponents six yard line, while allowing every single player involved in the attacking five to take up every single position and play as either a playmaker or striker.

This can only happen in FM when SI agree with a researcher on the favoured formation and playstyle and role of players. It cannot happen naturally within the game.

The AI is stupid. It is in my opinion the biggest flaw in FM. It does not understand football whatsoever, it adapts football only by a few set rules according to what is happening in a match.

Whatever formation Alex Ferguson prefers to play in an FM game is the formation he will usually play for the rest of his career in that save. This is despite the fact that Alex Ferguson uses tactical and personell variation as a key weapon against every single team he plays.

People say the AI is "uber", "cheats" or is "designed to exploit your formation". If this were true then Alex Ferguson would be winning the league in most saves because of his amazing motivational skills combined to his REALISTIC adaption and exploitation of your team.

Manchester United fail in FM because the AI is completely incapable of adapting. The reason it catches people out tactically is because people are asleep at the wheel when the AI follows it rigid and basic and rather stupid code and swaps the RCM and LCM and RCF and LCF and switches to a more attacking strategy when a goal behind.

The AI is TERRIBLE. What does that say about the average human player? That they don't have the slightest clue about football and cannot be bothered to watch it.

And so the game is a "success". Success in FM10 is as "hard" as watching 90 minutes of football. Impossible for some, a mere fact of life for others

This, in addition to the AI's terrible transfer policies. When top teams are buying reserve players from lesser teams, you know things aren't going to turn out well.

Mediocre tactics + Mediocre players = disaster for AI teams.

At least 1 of these things need to be fixed so the game isn't a walk in the park after 1season.

Really? Man U fans don't use the phrase Man U?

Edit: Not being sarcastic or anything, I just didn't realise the term "Man U" had any connotations to Munich.

I never realised this either. :confused::confused::confused:

In what way does it refer to the 'Munich' songs? I have heard a couple, and neither contain any reference to the term 'Man U'.

I never realised this either. :confused::confused::confused:

In what way does it refer to the 'Munich' songs? I have heard a couple, and neither contain any reference to the term 'Man U'.

Either way, it happened over 50 years ago so I think the whole 'offence to Man Utd being called Man U' thing needs dropped now.

It was unfortunate, it's in the past, let's move on whilst not forgetting what happened.

Always transfer listed on my game for 5 million . Usually goes to Everton, Sunderland or Man City on mine.

And on mine, I think he went to Wolves on my save.

Either way, it happened over 50 years ago so I think the whole 'offence to Man Utd being called Man U' thing needs dropped now.

It was unfortunate, it's in the past, let's move on whilst not forgetting what happened.

I agree. My ex (who comes from Manchester) slapped me for saying Man U all the time, it became quite a habit over the few months we were together.

And I’ve found the same thing with Man Utd, though I beat them to the raw English talent.

Also one thing to consider is Alex Fergueson retires in game after season or two and new manager comes in and that also there finances are only ok. So they won't be as dominate.

You only have to go on a United Forum to realise any one using the forbidden 'Man U' is ridiculed.

You only have to go on a United Forum to realise any one using the forbidden 'Man U' is ridiculed.

In all fairness, I have no intention of ever going onto a Man Utd forum!

i've never seen anyone like Wellbeck/Obertan/Macheda break through

i've never seen anyone like Wellbeck/Obertan/Macheda break through

Macheda is first choice striker on my save, and one of the twins is pretty awwsome, can't remember which one though!

Fot those of you who didn't know...

'Man U' is not a term Manchester United fans refer to themselves as. The term is only used by other supporters as a complete and utter insult to our club. The 'u' is meant to be 'you' by the rival fans.

An early example of its usage is this chant by West Brom fans: 'Duncan Edwards is manure, rotting in his grave, man you are manure - rotting in your grave'. The origin of 'Man U' is a song to insult the dead Duncan Edwards.

Liverpool and Leeds fans copied this with their own man 'you'/'u' versions to insult all of the lads who died at Munich.

'Man U, Man U, went on a plane, Man U, Man U, never came back again!'

and...

'Man U Never Intended Coming Home' (if you combine the first letter of each word you get the word 'Munich').

I hope this makes it clearer that saying 'Man U' is an insult, particularly to the older supporters and to see United fans using it now is shameful.

So, please refrain from using this term ever again. Thank you.

Fot those of you who didn't know...

'Man U' is not a term Manchester United fans refer to themselves as. The term is only used by other supporters as a complete and utter insult to our club. The 'u' is meant to be 'you' by the rival fans.

An early example of its usage is this chant by West Brom fans: 'Duncan Edwards is manure, rotting in his grave, man you are manure - rotting in your grave'. The origin of 'Man U' is a song to insult the dead Duncan Edwards.

Liverpool and Leeds fans copied this with their own man 'you'/'u' versions to insult all of the lads who died at Munich.

'Man U, Man U, went on a plane, Man U, Man U, never came back again!'

and...

'Man U Never Intended Coming Home' (if you combine the first letter of each word you get the word 'Munich').

I hope this makes it clearer that saying 'Man U' is an insult, particularly to the older supporters and to see United fans using it now is shameful.

So, please refrain from using this term ever again. Thank you.

Generally I never use Man 'U' but it's not so I don't cause offence. There have been plenty of examples in more modern times of fans singing songs about tragic events, Man Utd fans singing about Hillsborough for example! Pot, kettle and all that!

i've never seen anyone like Wellbeck/Obertan/Macheda break through

Wellbeck scored 41 goals for my Notts County team in the 2017/18 season! - He got the European golden boot too.

Generally I never use Man 'U' but it's not so I don't cause offence. There have been plenty of examples in more modern times of fans singing songs about tragic events, Man Utd fans singing about Hillsborough for example! Pot, kettle and all that!

Not content with mocking the Munich disaster at every opportunity, it seems Liverpool fans have found a new disaster to taunt rival fans about. This time it’s Everton that are on the receiving end of it. Fans were seen at the game holding up a banner than read “Steaua Bucuresti 1986″.

For those that don’t know what this means, it’s a reference to the fact that Liverpool fans’ actions that contributed to the Heysel stadium disaster resulted in the banning of all English teams from entering European competitions. Everton were considered favourites that year, but the ban meant they couldn’t enter and the winners were Steaua Bucharest of Romania.

In simplest terms, Liverpool fans are using the death of Juventus fans to mock Everton fans. Whilst not being altogether surprising, it is another show of contempt from Liverpool fans who will mock every tragedy going while at the same time calling for “Justice for the 96″.

Similar to the Spirit of Shankly (SOS) group calling for the dismissal of Tom Hicks Jr. for insulting one of their members which they described as” objectionable behaviour”, just months after having a good ol’ Munich sing song at their end of season party. Apparently their definition of “objectionable” changes to suit their agenda. If a more hypocritical set of fans exists I have yet to see them.

The above post is taken from a United forum. Liverpool taunting Everton over not being allowed in the Euro Cup after a stadium disaster. So you're right it's the Pot calling the kettle black.

The above post is taken from a United forum. Liverpool taunting Everton over not being allowed in the Euro Cup after a stadium disaster. So you're right it's the Pot calling the kettle black.

It's common knowledge mate. Whilst it is distasteful, rivals will use it against each other.

Way off topic so please return to that or it will be closed