Future of Internationals in FM

I'm looking at a save a friend let me play, from 2063, as well as looking at a save someone here posted from 2040, and it appears as if the international game goes messed up. For example, Brazil are no longer a force, and the WC winners from 2010 are:

2010- Italy,

2014- Argentina,

2018- Argentina,

2022- Uruguay,

2026- England,

2030- Czech Republic,

2034- Greece,

2038- Brazil,

2042- Austria

2046- Japan,

2050- France,

2054- Italy,

2058- France,

2062- Turkey.

The top 5 world rankings are:

1 - Germany

2 - Turkey

3 - Austria

4- Spain

5- England

At their lowest point, Brazil fell out of the top 10!

Holland aren't even on the map any more (24th), neither are Russia (32nd), and France are now out of the top 15 World Rankings.

This really isn't realistic at all. Turkey & Austria always seem to become awesome, Brazil & Holland always become useless in every save I've done, not just this one. In this particular one, USA are also struggling a lot and you'd really expect them to become better. The African countries are quite poor as well.

What leagues are you running? Active leagues generate more regens and ultimately results in better national teams over time.

^

England

France

Germany

Greece

Italy

Scotland

Spain

is all this one had.

World Rankings for each nation are:

Germany (1st)

Spain (4th)

England (5th)

Italy (8th)

France (15th)

Greece (18th)

Scotland (22nd)

I dont see an issue.

I dont see an issue.

It's not an issue it's just not very realistic to see a Japan - Colombia WC final or Austria winning the WC and then the Euro after it.

It's not an issue it's just not very realistic to see a Japan - Colombia WC final or Austria winning the WC and then the Euro after it.

I reckon thirty years ago they said they couldn't imagine Greece winning the Euros, or Iraq winning the Asian Cup. Or Croatia and South Korea being World Cup semi finalists.

I reckon thirty years ago they said they couldn't imagine Greece winning the Euros, or Iraq winning the Asian Cup. Or Croatia and South Korea being World Cup semi finalists.

Come on, don't take things out of context.

These are one off things, what's happening in FM is regular domination by smaller footballing nations.

Come on, don't take things out of context.

These are one off things, what's happening in FM is regular domination by smaller footballing nations.

Yeah, those four things that happened within three years of one another were all one off things.

Anyway, aside from Japan and Austria the other teams are perfectly capable winners in the current footballing world. And in 30 years time it's impossible to say what will have happened because the players for those World Cups aren't even alive yet.

Yeah, those four things that happened within three years of one another were all one off things.

Please stop being an idiot. What's going on here is going on for over decades.

They were actually.

On FM 2009 I remember in the year 2060 the world rankings becoming very strange.

Honduras, Switzerland, Bolivia and South Africa were all in the top 8 World Rankings. Bolivia and South Africa were unplayable at times.

Brazil hit like 30-odd during this save, and Argentina were down there too.

Please stop being an idiot. What's going on here is going on for over decades.

Exactly, decades where teams can build and improve.

Two World Cups have had "odd" winners; 2042 & 2046. However, it's impossible to know if they really are "odd". The players who played in those WC won't even be alive now, it's perfectly possible that either team could have had a "Golden Generation" or one stand out world class player who won it alone (see: Maradona). Or that those two countries could have massively overhauled their training for young players and built something like the Clairefontaine Academy in France.

Just because they're so called minnows now doesn't mean they will be after three decades worth of football has been played.

Exactly, decades where teams can build and improve.

Two World Cups have had "odd" winners; 2042 & 2046. However, it's impossible to know if they really are "odd". The players who played in those WC won't even be alive now, it's perfectly possible that either team could have had a "Golden Generation" or one stand out world class player who won it alone (see: Maradona). Or that those two countries could have massively overhauled their training for young players and built something like the Clairefontaine Academy in France.

Just because they're so called minnows now doesn't mean they will be after three decades worth of football has been played.

But how can the decline of France, Holland, Brazil & Russia be explained?

But it's not this, it's that the SAME thing happens in EVERY save. The same patterns of some nations getting good and others going crap.

But since 1930, Brazil-Germany-Italy have always been around in major tournaments, the three of them winning almost everything, with "erruptions" by France, Holland, Argentina and maybe Spain & Portugal(maybe I forgot some). The first three countries should realistically be among the top national teams forever, and history proves that.

Greece winning the 2004 Euro doesn't mean that it will happen every 8 years.

While I do agree that in 2042 the people who will feature in the World Cup are probably not even born yet, but there's a trend that show us what we should expect.

But how can the decline of France, Holland, Brazil & Russia be explained?

But it's not this, it's that the SAME thing happens in EVERY save. The same patterns of some nations getting good and others going crap.

Because of a lack of good players being born? Poor management? Players leaving the country too early? Players joining clubs and coasting/stagnating? No good coaches? Player opting to play for other countries?

thought we would have seen china being a force

and an african nation up there too?

But since 1930, Brazil-Germany-Italy have always been around in major tournaments, the three of them winning almost everything, with "erruptions" by France, Holland, Argentina and maybe Spain & Portugal(maybe I forgot some). The first three countries should realistically be among the top national teams forever, and history proves that.

Greece winning the 2004 Euro doesn't mean that it will happen every 8 years.

While I do agree that in 2042 the people who will feature in the World Cup are probably not even born yet, but there's a trend that show us what we should expect.

But it's two countries across fourteen tournaments listed, all the others listed could win the World Cup realistically in contemporary society.

Those two countries could be the Greece or the Iraq or the South Korea.

Brazil have won one tournament listed, Italy too, along with France and Argentina. Remember before 2008 Spain hadn't done much internationally, Portugal and Holland (except Euro 88) still haven't. If he gives us a least of beaten finalists we might see that these teams are still getting to finals and choking.

Because of a lack of good players being born? Poor management? Players leaving the country too early? Players joining clubs and coasting/stagnating? No good coaches? Player opting to play for other countries?

Really think this would happen in FRANCE of all places?

But it's two countries across fourteen tournaments listed, all the others listed could win the World Cup realistically in contemporary society.

Those two countries could be the Greece or the Iraq or the South Korea.

Brazil have won one tournament listed, Italy too, along with France and Argentina. Remember before 2008 Spain hadn't done much internationally, Portugal and Holland (except Euro 88) still haven't. If he gives us a least of beaten finalists we might see that these teams are still getting to finals and choking.

But you see, Spain still produced world class players, some of these nations don't anymore.

thought we would have seen china being a force

and an african nation up there too?

Nope, China is no where to be seen an the African nations are weak.

Really think this would happen in FRANCE of all places?

France have won two World Cups on that list, doesn't look like it has happened there on your game. But it could happen, France struggled at tournaments for fifteen years before the 1998 World Cup.

i'm all for the balance of power in world football to shift over time (in fact i've messed around in the editor in an attempt to induce it) but certain nations seem to generate too many good newgens over time.

off the top of my head, it goes like this:

belgium, scotland, romania, ukraine, austria, turkey, israel, serbia - too many good players are generated

france, portugal, germany, sweden, denmark - not quite as many good players being generated as you'd expect

also, excluding south africa and the north african nations, you're very unlikely to see more than a tiny handful of good players coming out of africa and asia

Every top team has like 3 Turkish players as well.

Italian Champions have 3, Spanish Champions have 4, French Champions have 5. In every save Turkey seem to become Brazil.

Except for the Japan vs. Colombia final (Colombia could have been helped by the conditions in Mexico), nothing there changes my mind.

the issue would be that you could start 10 different games of fm and the same nations would be getting a disproportionately high number of good regens every time

What leagues are you running? Active leagues generate more regens and ultimately results in better national teams over time.

Regen distribution seems to be a lot more random than that. And tbh active leagues seem to have little or even no effect in the quality of regens. (at least positively...)

In my game for example:

Holland hasnt generated a single decent regen

Portugal had some "decent" regens but only one of them is actually good.

Spain had some good regens but none of them has shown a glimpse of world class potential

Scotland had regens with even better quality than the players that they start with it.

Romania has already 4 world class players (aged 19-20)

Russia also has quite a few.

Ukraine has 3 world class players and 5-7 with potential for that.

England and France have been generating just enough but nothing extraordinary.

Note: I didnt select any of the world class generating nations as playable (Ukraine, Russia, Romania).

But I know of people who have a more realistic distribution. So this distribution seems to be waayyy too random...

Basically my "gameworld" changed too much too fast...

Except for the Japan vs. Colombia final (Colombia could have been helped by the conditions in Mexico), nothing there changes my mind.

Does this look right to you?

Bear in mind it's similar to this every time, there's not much variation

It's not an issue it's just not very realistic to see a Japan - Colombia WC final or Austria winning the WC and then the Euro after it.

Why not? Could happen quite easily.

Remember Uruguay and Hungary were dominant forces in the first half of the 20th century, and now neither can really lay claim to such a title. It's not TOTALLY beyond the realm of possibility that a current world power won't be so good forty years from now.

You're not really getting it are you.

It's impossible to know what will happen in forty years time, which teams will do well and which will fade. Hungary were the greatest team in the world for a while but fifty years later and they're not exactly setting the world alight. FIFA rankings have always been a bit messed up, for example Egypt are currently the tenth best nation in the world.

Remember Uruguay and Hungary were dominant forces in the first half of the 20th century, and now neither can really lay claim to such a title. It's not TOTALLY beyond the realm of possibility that a current world power won't be so good forty years from now.

You have to remember that the economic status of different countries was different then.

You have to remember that the economic status of different countries was different then.

And it could well be different in forty years time.

And Hungary and Uruguay were never exactly economic super powers.

You're not really getting it are you.

It's impossible to know what will happen in forty years time, which teams will do well and which will fade. Hungary were the greatest team in the world for a while but fifty years later and they're not exactly setting the world alight. FIFA rankings have always been a bit messed up, for example Egypt are currently the tenth best nation in the world.

And you're not getting that the same nations are awesome every time. I'd accept it if Serbia were awesome in one save, and then Denmark the next, and then Egypt the one after, but it's the SAME nations good with the SAME nations dropping off.

And you're not getting that the same nations are awesome every time. I'd accept it if Serbia were awesome in one save, and then Denmark the next, and then Egypt the one after, but it's the SAME nations good with the SAME nations dropping off.

But looking at your evidence, it seems to be the same nations that are decent now are decent in 2050.

But looking at your evidence, it seems to be the same nations that are decent now are decent in 2050.

Turkey 42nd irl, 2nd in the game (once first) as well as at least 3 Turks on every major team in Europe.

Austria 61st irl, 3rd in the game.

Romania 38th irl, 13th in the game.

Turkey 42nd irl, 2nd in the game (once first) as well as at least 3 Turks on every major team in Europe.

Austria 61st irl, 3rd in the game.

Romania 38th irl, 13th in the game.

That's three teams, and going back through real life tournaments and rankings you'll be able to find strange nations in there.

It's impossible to know what will happen in forty years time, some countries could be great and some could fade. If it's the same countries developing amazing regens (Israel, Scotland, Serbia, Belgium, as somebody said) then they're clearly not doing anything with them because it's still England, France, Portugal, Italy getting to the finals.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I can't see what the problem is. Things change over time and it's impossible to say this is wrong because it's impossible to know for sure what the state of football will be in half a century's time.

Are you honestly saying something 50 years in the future in unrealistic? How will we know what football will be like that far ahead?

We'll have to agree to disagree, I can't see what the problem is. Things change over time and it's impossible to say this is wrong because it's impossible to know for sure what the state of football will be in half a century's time.

But we can predict that France will still be a world super power with reasonable certainty, and therefore will have the educational system and so on to produce good talents.

And again, my point is it's always Turkey/Austria/Japan getting good you'd expect SOME variation.

But we can predict that France will still be a world super power with reasonable certainty, and therefore will have the educational system and so on to produce good talents.

The same France that appear to have won the 2050 and 2058 World Cups?

The same France that appear to have won the 2050 and 2058 World Cups?

From 2022-2042 they were non existent.

From 2022-2042 they were non existent.

They were pretty redundant between 1985 and 1997 too.

I don't see anything wrong. It's perfectly possible.

It's not like Burundi or Sri Lanka won the world cup.

Anyway, I expect countries like China, USA and Japan to improve in the years to come, thanks to their big population.

China should actually dominate, if they had the interest and infrastructures.

That's three teams, and going back through real life tournaments and rankings you'll be able to find strange nations in there.

It's impossible to know what will happen in forty years time, some countries could be great and some could fade. If it's the same countries developing amazing regens (Israel, Scotland, Serbia, Belgium, as somebody said) then they're clearly not doing anything with them because it's still England, France, Portugal, Italy getting to the finals.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I can't see what the problem is. Things change over time and it's impossible to say this is wrong because it's impossible to know for sure what the state of football will be in half a century's time.

I don't deny, that sometimes small teams can surprise people. Greece winning the Euro and England not going to the Euro in following edition. This things happen, but it happens from time to time.

Portugal did surprise in 62 (i think it was that year), when it reached third and then disappeared and reemerge again, because Portuguese Football began to produce good player, like Luis Figo, Rui Costa, Pauleta, Jorge Costa and lately Bruno Alves and Cristiano Ronaldo.

However teams like Brazil, Germany, France, Holland, Argentina, England, Italy and Spain are considered to be part of World Cup. if they are not then is freaking scandal, like it was with England two years ago in the Euro. These are teams that since after WW2 has been always in a World Cup. Of course they didn't won it all the time, Uruguai won a few times.

And to be honest these are teams that will always be in the top 15 of the world.

However to be honest it would surprise me if the likes of New Zealand passed the phase groups in this year's World Cup. But win it? Possible, but very unlikely. Because it will depend what teams it will face after the phase groups.

But again we come back to those countries i mention, because if you see any bet houses these countries no matter World Cup it is, have very good chances to win the World Cup with few additions of countries here and there like Portugal, Mexico, Uruguai, Russia, Camaroon, Nigeria and so on that didn't participated in all of World Cups and have good phase going in the last 10 years or so. And they can become permanent in the World Cup future editions or not.

No one knows for sure, but there is always that group of countries that will always produce world class players due to the tradition and importance of football has in their societies. Don't forget that in the last few decades New Zealand main sport was Rugby and USA; was Basketball, American Football and Baseball. These countries are in the last years developing their football, but countries Like Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Italy, football (soccer for you USA people) are King of all sports and will continue to be for many decades.

That is what the OP is saying and I agree with him.

Wow this thread is weird,talking about 50 years after and saying it's unrealistic by judging a game which is random in every way possible

50 years man

oh and also Goooo Turkey

I dont think that the idea of nations, who are not world class right now, winning world cups 30 or 40 years down the line is not really unrealistic....football has become a very global game and this is evident because of the fact that many of the clubs in the top leagues in the world are scouting pretty much the entire planet now. Because of tournaments like the U17 and U20 world cups, a lot of young players are getting exposure and scouted by top clubs. Countries are gaining more and more of a reputation and because of this the youngsters in these countries will have a better chance to play in the top leagues. And if they play in the top leagues, they will be developed to play at the highest level they can attain. At the same time these smaller nations are beginning to understand the game more and their own coaching techniques are improving so that they can also develop their own players as well.

Look at the scores of the last U20 world cup:

http://www.fifa.com/u20worldcup/matches/index.html

look how close all the scores were in the knockout stage. Im not saying that all of these players are going to be world class but a good number of them may feature for their senior national teams.

In the 2007 U20 World Cup the USA beat brazil in the groups stage, and made it to the quarterfinals. As a result, at least 5 players where signed by european sides.

Dude even if you look on youtube you'll see talented players of all ages from everywhere (maybe even from places youve never heard of).

Im not saying that it will happen in the next ten years, but 30 years is more than enough for any decent nation to reach the level of brazil or spain. And who knows, maybe when than nation reaches the top....they'll stay there for 30 or 40 years more after that.

Plus like jonny said, you dont know what is gonna happen 30 years from now.

P.S. Watch out for china and india......with 1 billion plus people they are bound to find 11 youngsters with the potential to be world class footballers.

nope ..nothing wrong in this !!!!! its 50 years from now ....the chances that japan wil win the world cup is vary, vary high !!!! i dont want to get into this but just look at the last 50 years ....in the 1950's+ 60's Uruguay, Sweden, Hungary, Austria, Switzerland, Chile & Portugal all had very good teams .

Uruguay--- have done nothing in the world cup since the SF in 1970...thats 40 years

Sweden--- apart from 3rd in 1994 they have done nothing to shout about in WC since 1958.... thats 1 good WC in 52 years

Hungary---the greatest team never to win a WC have done nothing in the WC since 1954....56 years of ... well,the less said the better

i can go on ........but i leave you all wit this BOMBSHELL .... in all the 80years of World Cups ....Spain best from 1930-1986 was QF once.... thats 56 years of crap in the WC ...thats shocking ...

if thats so, then the chance that Brazil or france can go 20years of NOT doing well in a WC is not that strange

if thats so, then the chance that Brazil or france can go 20years of NOT doing well in a WC is not that strange

Brazil are FAR better than Spain.

Brazil are FAR better than Spain.

over the years? or right now?

over the years? or right now?

Both. Don't just think about this from a NT perspective, but Brazil produces such good talent, they have a good national league and also the Brazilians that go abroad make their foreign teams a lot better.

How can anyone predict what teams will be good in 2066? Anything can happen in that length of time. You cannot expect all the teams at the top end of international football to remain there forever?

How can you say it's messed up? You know what the world will look like in 2063?

No one can predict the future, so saying something in the future happening in a game is unlikely or messed up is a very foolish comment.

Both. Don't just think about this from a NT perspective, but Brazil produces such good talent, they have a good national league and also the Brazilians that go abroad make their foreign teams a lot better.

Look the same has been going on around the world.

The quality of domestic leagues has been improving and players are moving from these leagues to europe....like in brazil.

And brazil is not way better than spain.

I have 5 words for you: Torres, Villa, Iniesta, Xavi, Fabregas. Sure brazil has won more world cups than anyone else but no team is FAR better than spain at the moment.