*Change Tactics* Oh, goal.

Why is it that every time you want to make a tactical change/make a sub, you let in a goal as it's being made. I'm Brentford in the Championship and I've lost count of how many times I've been making a tactical change, it's just waiting for it to be confirmed and the opposition score, which completely ruins my tactical change.

Also, I've got my lads playing "Short passing" which includes GK and defence individually chosen to do short passing.. I have no target man and yet they HOOF the ball up field, often giving it to the opposition. So annoying.

Pause it while you change ur tactics

I've done that a few times, but only usually in the last 10 minutes of the match if I know every minute counts! Normally I do it in the 60th minute and they always end up scoring!

I always us pause when making subs or major changes coz usually takes up 10 mins of the game, but when i just make little tweeks i just let it play

The short passing thing could be because players can't pick out an easy short pass so panic and launch it. Particularly if they have low composure. Try playing a bit narrower so your players are closer meaning more short passing options are available. Dropping the tempo a bit can help too.

What gets me is when I've actually confirmed a sub, it still gets delayed for the next highlight, and we concede a goal.

Yeah it does happen now and again but i rekon it won't happen half as much as it does as when pausing it.

Coincidence I believe

Coincidence I believe

Don't wink, that makes it more suspicious!

That reminds me of the CM days.

Very very often, it felt like, when you went into your tactics screen to make a sub or change tactics, they opposition seemed to score lol

Was very annoying, but i did learn eventually how to come back again.

Speaking of pausing while changing your tactics, does anyone else think there should be an option to do this automatically? I don't care how "realistic" it is for the game to go on while you are making changes, I just don't want to keep pressing the pause button all the time. If I were watching matches in full and had more than enough time to think everything through before doing any changes then it wouldn't bother me, but it's a bit annoying the way it is now. Unless there is already an option for this somewhere?

What gets me is when I've actually confirmed a sub, it still gets delayed for the next highlight, and we concede a goal.

This is what I meant, but didn't explain it as well as you!

This was a massive issue with 09 also. Nice to see the catch up logic is still prevelent in 10. I see it all the time also. its almost like the ME just realized that you are about to shut it out and needs a goal before you do. Ive seen the ball go out of play like seven times and still no change. but as soon as the AI scores it changes. Very poor programming and game design imho.

And so damn obvious. Pausing does nothing but give you time to change tactics. It does nothing for how long it takes your opponent to change your tactics for you. Really **** poor.

4-2-4 ouch! very good point I also noticed AI change there tactic even do subs while yours gets ignored on the pretence your players are warming up. Which is another issue are we calling subs or calling warming up.

I also noticed formation changes before subs if your playing a player in different position say moving your striker to wing as he can play there and bringing off your winger for another striker it does the game anounces the positional change before the subs.

Now does this mean temporary its weaking the side by putting the winger upfront before the sub when it anounces the tactical change. If this is the case it very woryring doing positional changes with subs.

Wooow, so, SI do you now believe in what I was saying?

Because, I had this too. 6 goal until now. Every time, I click pause, change the tactic, confirm, the game came back to LIVE, and there it is. Goal for the opposite. Man am I lucky to chose the right moment to change. Right in second when there came the goal for the opponent. I should play lotto

The game is decided before you see the game, so the AI isn't scoring just because you went into the tactics screen.

I am so glad I bought one of the lucky editions of this game, I'd be gutted if this happened to me even once, then I'd be spouting bile with the best of them

I love a good conspiracy theory

get prepared to do the tactic change ideally i do it 70-80 min, i click the tactics screen wait for the ai to finish thier chance and as soon as its going wide hit pause, make tactic change, confirm then play genrally my change is done there and then

The game is decided before you see the game, so the AI isn't scoring just because you went into the tactics screen.

So... if the result is decided before you even begin the game, what's the point of all the tactic changes people make during the match? Or the subs, etc? :confused:

The game is decided before you see the game, so the AI isn't scoring just because you went into the tactics screen.

That's not quite correct. What happens is, during the game, the ME will play out a particular scenario - this is how it knows which highlights to show when you're watching in Key Highlights mode for example. Then, when it's actually showing the highlight, the ME will run that sequence again, so you may get a different result.

An example:

Behind the scenes, the ME may have a sequence of events in the 14th minute that ends with your striker missing an easy chance. It decides to show this as a Key Highlight. When it runs the highlight, it reruns this sequence of events and this time, maybe your striker scores, or maybe he misses, or maybe he is taken out and wins a penalty, or maybe he dives and is booked, and so on and so on.

The ME will react to substitutions, tactics changing, random events (otherwise known as "luck"), and so on. Which is why if you replay a game with exactly the same variables, you don't get the same score or result every single time.

i never change tactics during a play. i wait for the ball to go out and then i go to the tactics screen

What gets me is when I've actually confirmed a sub, it still gets delayed for the next highlight, and we concede a goal.

This is what annoys me most of all.

That's not quite correct. What happens is, during the game, the ME will play out a particular scenario - this is how it knows which highlights to show when you're watching in Key Highlights mode for example. Then, when it's actually showing the highlight, the ME will run that sequence again, so you may get a different result.

My understanding is that the match is played out before the match is shown to you. So it takes all the variables, calculates a match and that's what you see. If you make any tactical changes - the match is calculated again which will obviously show a different outcome.

My understanding is that the match is played out before the match is shown to you. So it takes all the variables, calculates a match and that's what you see. If you make any tactical changes - the match is calculated again which will obviously show a different outcome.

Ah right. So then, the only thing that changes a match then is the "random" element? I didn't think it was like that, but maybe I was wrong?

Ah right. So then, the only thing that changes a match then is the "random" element? I didn't think it was like that, but maybe I was wrong?

I'm not saying I'm right

I thought it was still played out in the same way ie second by second and whatever happens when it does that is then shown to you as a highlight.

Why is it that every time you want to make a tactical change/make a sub, you let in a goal as it's being made. I'm Brentford in the Championship and I've lost count of how many times I've been making a tactical change, it's just waiting for it to be confirmed and the opposition score, which completely ruins my tactical change.

Also, I've got my lads playing "Short passing" which includes GK and defence individually chosen to do short passing.. I have no target man and yet they HOOF the ball up field, often giving it to the opposition. So annoying.

It's just chance.

Remember that the goal was to happen anyway and you went to the tactics screen too late fo rthe changes to take any effect before the goal is scored. (unless you pause the game while changing tactics, thereby having a minimum chance that your changes becomes effective during the time you would otherwise have spent making the changes)

So nothing you can do about it and neither your fault, nor the game's.

hth

My understanding is that the match is played out before the match is shown to you. So it takes all the variables, calculates a match and that's what you see. If you make any tactical changes - the match is calculated again which will obviously show a different outcome.

I'm quite sure as well that this is how it works.

The recalculation only applies from the point of the changes on of course.

My understanding is that the match is played out before the match is shown to you. So it takes all the variables, calculates a match and that's what you see. If you make any tactical changes - the match is calculated again which will obviously show a different outcome.

That is my understanding of this as well. However quite often when I go in to make some changes the game sort of freezes up when the ball is played out and there is some grey box saying something like "changing tactic" or something like that (I never pay enough attention ). Anyway, most of the time my sub or tactical change isn't implemented untill THE NEXT time the ball is played out or given free-kick or whatever (meaning I cannot go into the tactics screen yet, it is greyed out still). In theory, couldn't this mean the game is already calculating something up BEFORE your change is made, meaning it *could* "find" a goal for the AI before the change is done? I love being a bit paranoid, but there you go!

All this sort of reminds me that I wish there was a way in the game to change a decision of a sub. For example I'm up by 1-0 and want to put in a defensive minded player. If I make this change, there is no going back. IRL managers can "withdraw" a change I think depending on what might happen before the change is gonna be made. So if I would conceed a goal I might want to rethink my change and send on a more attacking player or simply make no changes. Not sure if I am correct on this but I see often players that is ready to come on and then goes back to the bench all of a sudden depening on what happens for his team on the pitch.

Never ever had this apart from one occasion I recall it was my teams goal though.

My understanding is that the match is played out before the match is shown to you. So it takes all the variables, calculates a match and that's what you see. If you make any tactical changes - the match is calculated again which will obviously show a different outcome.

And that is what I am talking:

I am playing the match. After goals, and happenings, and half time talk, we are now in the min 65'. I am watching on Key highlight. The last Highlight was at min. 61' with a chance missed for me. Now, the game calculated that the next highlight will be in min. 68'. So now we are on "time going", it means nothing is happening. So I need to change. Because it is min. 65'. I click pause, and so I stoped the game. Go in tactics, and there down, in the little window, the game is stopped. I make some changes, make subs, and click confirm. Now, the game goes back, this time on LIVE and the time is: 64:36. Now I click play, the match is on live, and it waits for the ball go out to make my changes, and after 30s there came the goal. So, I think, that with the action: PAUSE + TACTIC + made some SUBS + CONFIRM (that brought me to LIVE), I changed in some way the match code, and the ME recalculated this and made a goal chance for the opponent or goal. So, If I haven't clicked PAUSE, the game would be go until min. 68' and then made his chance.

Because, say it right, I had 7 (I had today one more) goals in this occasion, and about 20 goal chances for them and for me. So, it has to be some issue with this pause-tactic.

And like somebody says, I should wait that the ball goes out, and then make subs, yes, it could work. But what when the game is not on LIVE but on time going?

It has to be something behind this, because, there are more then 1 user that saw this annomalie.

Here's an explanation from PaulC on the match engine. It's not what I was looking for, but it explains it a little bit:

No result is pre-determined. In other words the match engine does not work to produce a desired result. When it starts, it has no idea how it will end.

Instead, each match consists of a second by second sequential simulation, and whatever is the situation at the end, that is your result.

Where people are getting confused is that FM has the ability to play the same match sequentially over and over. To demonstrate this, save a pkm and load it in from the game start screen, where you will see the same game unfold that you watched originally.

We use this facility to pre-calculate the *highlights* that will then be shown in tandem with 2D or 3D. This allows us to skip between each highlight and know when to jump into the 2D or 3D. Just dont confuse the match screen knowing what is going to happen next with the match engine knowing it

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=2295706&highlight=calculate#post2295706

That's right GillsMan, I am not talking about ME making result before the match. I know that the End Result depends from various factor. But, I am saying here, that there is a possibility that with the action: pause+tactic, you change the "key highlight" code, I mean, the code who tells the Match Screen when there will be a key highlight so that it goes to Live screen. Because, when you go back to the live screen after clicking confirm, you have to wait for tactic changes, and in this time, there were some changes in the ME and the Match Screen is showing you the goal or a amaizing chance oportunity from the opponent.

If anything for me, I score more goals than I concede while making tactical changes.

What annoys me is that the striker I'm just about to bring off is invariably the one who scores, and then I feel I have to leave him on the pitch.

Why is it that every time you want to make a tactical change/make a sub, you let in a goal as it's being made. I'm Brentford in the Championship and I've lost count of how many times I've been making a tactical change, it's just waiting for it to be confirmed and the opposition score, which completely ruins my tactical change.

I quite like the consipiracy theory.

In my opinion, if you are needing to change tactics or make subs then there is a high chance that there is a good reason for doing it on the pitch. By the time you realise you need to change something, the AI is already taking advantage of your weakness, making them more likely to score at that time, especially if you take your time making the changes.

That's not to say that the action of going to the tactics screen causes them to score, just the situation on the pitch making it more likely.

I quite like the consipiracy theory.

In my opinion, if you are needing to change tactics or make subs then there is a high chance that there is a good reason for doing it on the pitch. By the time you realise you need to change something, the AI is already taking advantage of your weakness, making them more likely to score at that time, especially if you take your time making the changes.

That's not to say that the action of going to the tactics screen causes them to score, just the situation on the pitch making it more likely.

This is the best explanation for why people think this is happening. Dafuge I think you posted this another thread some time ago and I was looking for it to quote. Thanks for saving me the bother.

When I scored a 91st minute equaliser using 2-4-4 overload formation, I had to wait until the ball went out of play to change to something more cautious. The next time it went out of play was in the back of my net.

It was a bit annoying.

Isn't the whole point of touchline shouts that they should be instantaneous?

When I scored a 91st minute equaliser using 2-4-4 overload formation, I had to wait until the ball went out of play to change to something more cautious. The next time it went out of play was in the back of my net.

It was a bit annoying.

Isn't the whole point of touchline shouts that they should be instantaneous?

Yeah, always used to hate that in CM4. And it seems it still hasn't been changed, that the AI can change tactics whenever it wants, but WE must wait, even when common sense says that IRL straight after a goal has been scored that levels the game or seems to be a game winning goal, that EVERYONE barring 1 striker would immediately go 5, 4, 1 ultra defensive formation instead of staying at 2, 3, 5 etc.

Seems that there should be an option that actually lets you change your tacs before a kick off.