Promoted teams to BSP failing spectacularly

I am running the English League (amongst others) from the BSP upwards, and it seems as though every season one promoted side fails spectacularly. My current season brought with it possibly the worst of all:

Another flop, this time Dover, from a previous season

Any one else running down to BSP see something similar? I am running an unedited db.

Yes i have the exact same problem! Only running England to the BSP, and always get at least 1 team doing terribly, sometimes 2.

Nice to see I'm not the only one, Standard!

It doesn't matter too much, its quite comical in a way, but I just wonder what's causing it.

Im guessing it could be the step. In one way it's quite a big one. Some of the BSP teams will have been in League football so will have the structure, reputation and full-time status that promoted teams from the BSN/S lack. There are also some teams in the BSP that are full-time, ready and waiting for promotion to League 2.

From BSN/S to establising yourself as a professional outfit is a very big step.

I tried playing as a BSP team and absolutely hated it. I really don't think there is much 'game design' in that area and you are almost certain to have a pretty miserable experience.

All I can suggest is that you take on a team a few divisions higher whereby you should have a better chance of enjoying the game.

A lot of the ME depends on morale and motivation. Once a side is promoted, if they get a few bad results then they don't have the squad strength or determination to pull it around; hence repeated spectacular losses.

This is furthered in the lower leagues because the players have specially low determination and mental stats. Once they start failing, they continue.

It isn't just the BSP - it happens in all lower leagues. It even happens in high divisions; the English Premier League is often subject to it.

lol 1 point? they did well

The worst thing about the lower leagues for me is you have absolutely no idea who to sign. All players seem equally bad and without decent coaches or scouts to give you any guidance it's pretty hopeless.

I'm running a huge holiday game (topic incoming later), and I've seen non-league teams (so teams that aren't in BSN/S in 2009) play European football, so it's not all that bad ! I'm speaking about 100 seasons here though, but still, it's pretty impressive concerning AI.

100 seasons!

let me guess, SAF is still managing Manchester United, right?

im running english leagues down to BSN/BSS. i dont seem to have this problem in the BSP as teams actually do get promoted to it on my game. yes a few teams do go back down but i have the likes of northwich and fleetwood holding their own. not seen a bad points tally in it yet.

however, as i only run down to BSN/BSS the promoted teams to these divisions is random so i do see some awful points tallies in these 2 divisions. often see teams go down with 10-15 points in a season.

100 seasons!

let me guess, SAF is still managing Manchester United, right?

Actually ManU never won the Premiership in the first 50 seasons (that's where I am now with data), they got relegated once too, but came back, so I doubt Chewinggum is still on the job !

FC United of Manchester is in Championship now (arounn year 2185 ), which is above Man City who already spent soms seasons in League 1.

I present the case against the original post. Last season, I won Conference North and Eastwood went up with me through the playoffs. This season I finished 17th while Eastwood won the 2017/8 Conference.

Full details will be in my career thread in the Career Update forum later tonight.

Never seen anything like that on my save! Could it have something to do with not having the North/South leagues loaded, as in the case of the OP? Even a bug perhaps? I run English leagues all the way through Blue Square N/S and teams rarely have lower than 30p in last position in the BSP.

This happens all the time in real life. Team gets lucky in the BSN/BSS and then struggles in the BSP.

Never seen anything like that on my save! Could it have something to do with not having the North/South leagues loaded, as in the case of the OP? Even a bug perhaps? I run English leagues all the way through Blue Square N/S and teams rarely have lower than 30p in last position in the BSP.

I have leagues loaded down to the Isthmian/Northern/Southern First Division regionals, level 8 of the English system.

Of the four teams to have come up the previous season to Conference Premier, here is where they finished in the 2017/8 season that I have just finished.

1st Eastwood Town (as a semi professional team)

9th Forest Green Rovers

17th Hednesford Town (me)

19th Ebbsfleet United

Grays Athletic (19 points) and Fleetwood Town (16 points) were cast miles adrift, Fleetwood had come up the previous season while Grays had spent at least the previous two seasons in the Conference Premier.

It's definitely more to do with the fact that I don't have BSS and BSN running. I have run games with them and the promoted sides don't do nearly as badly as that, and often survive. Oddly Dover in the 2nd example were promoted again a few seasons later (see top screenshot) and got nearly 11 times more points.

Another key thing to note is that I'm referring to how the AI ITSELF manages with these teams. If a human player took over (such as in Nobby's case) I'm sure they can do much better.

I think its a sensible assumption to make that teams popping up from the level below will find it difficult to get decent enough players.

Weymouth had a lot of financial problems last year and so a large chunk of their squad left after not being paid. In a game against Rushden (I believe) they had to play a squad with only U18 players including a 16 year old GK (who did pretty decent). So they could just have a very poor squad which meant they would have horrible league form. Once they start losing every game by a large score line, it would be very difficult to get out of the hole, especially at the BSP level.

I do remember that game schweddy- I think they lost 9-0?

Maybe that has something to do with it- they may have a good reputation overall due to their history (which lead to their promotion) but a poor squad still from that season.

It's definitely more to do with the fact that I don't have BSS and BSN running. I have run games with them and the promoted sides don't do nearly as badly as that, and often survive. Oddly Dover in the 2nd example were promoted again a few seasons later (see top screenshot) and got nearly 11 times more points.

Another key thing to note is that I'm referring to how the AI ITSELF manages with these teams. If a human player took over (such as in Nobby's case) I'm sure they can do much better.

Possibly so with Hednesford, but the AI managed much better with Forest Green and Eastwood.

Managing Dover in the EPL now and looked back at the league tables... it's not happening here. The bottom placed team in the BSP have finished with minimum 22 - maximum 39 points.

@kickballz

It's really easy at this level because the free signings are of good enough quality to get you promoted. As you move upwards toughest division (other than EPL when you just get there) is League 1. At that level the freebies aren't usually good enough and you aren't able to attract the EPL rejects who are.

Good point Nobby, I forgot about that.

Well, I'm stumped.

What I want to know is how the hell they got promoted in the first place????? There isnt that much of a gap between BSS/N and BSP. I got to the CCL2 with exactly the same side I started with in BSS.

The Tactics gurus have analysed this (see their forum). The general view is that step up to BSP is the steepest of all the promotions.

I'd imagine they struggle so badly due to thier low Reputation, which will limit the players they can sign.

I've also seen newly promoted teams go the whole season with no backroom staff, and a 1st team with just a handful of senior players, and the rest on Youth Contracts from the U18's (this might also be what has happened here.)

I tried playing as a BSP team and absolutely hated it. I really don't think there is much 'game design' in that area and you are almost certain to have a pretty miserable experience.

All I can suggest is that you take on a team a few divisions higher whereby you should have a better chance of enjoying the game.

It's all about personal preferences

You like playing the 'big teams' and having an easy time of it due to quality players, decent staff & excellent facilities.

Others (like me) like playing the 'small teams' and find the challenge of doing well with crappy players, awful staff and an undecorated field for a pitch enjoyable.

I tried playing as an EPL team and found it incedibly tediously boring, too much transfer money, too much in the wage budget, too many awesome players willing to sign. There was no challenge and the save was deleted within 2 days.

Chelmsford had a shocker of a season on my Blyth game once, only got 12 or 13 point. One of them courtesy of me.

I tried playing as a BSP team and absolutely hated it. I really don't think there is much 'game design' in that area and you are almost certain to have a pretty miserable experience.

All I can suggest is that you take on a team a few divisions higher whereby you should have a better chance of enjoying the game.

Brazilian Third Division is by far the most frustrating league in the game. Trust me on this. You play in a State Championship competition with teams from the First and Second division. Then you goto the National Third Division and you have to beat out 128 teams for 4 promotion spots.

BSP is a walk in the park next to Brazil 3.

The BSP is a hard league - you have the 'bigger' clubs with the funds, the facilities and the fans who by rights could be playing in League 2. Then there are the minnows who are just there to make up the numbers, just like in real life.

A bit like any league then Matt?