What is the point in managing a top side ??

Maybe it is because I am a perfectionist who likes doing things the hard way, but I fail to see what bucket full of enjoyment people can get out of managing a top side with almost unlimited cash and reputation, and who have great players to begin with.

Any man and his dog can win titles and cups with such sides.

But if you want to take Barca, Real, Man U etc etc to dizzy heights, wouldn't it be more satisfying to change a v low side with the editor (before a game creation) to Barca, Man U etc, and likewise change the top side's name to (for example) the name of the club whose name you changed. (You could even swap the sadium names too so that you coud still play at OT or the Bernabaeu, albeit with an extremely low capacity).

Then you can have the 'proper' challenge of trying to win the Premiership/Champs Lg etc starting from absolutely nothing.

I've always wondered this, I enjoy starting in a lower league and trying to work my way up, but people seem to enjoy playing with teams like Chelsea and Liverpool just as much

Just pick a lower league club. Less messing around. I make it my aim to make my lower league team beat the team I support.

I suppose a partial answer to your question is because some people invest themselves a bit more in those top sides than others.

To the point where it's no longer simply about winning yourself, but also about making sure that other clubs you may resent don't win anything at the same time.

I regularly find myself developing little rivalries with certain clubs in-game that I have no problem with IRL, and outdoing those clubs and making sure they enjoy as little success as possible is part of what keeps me playing once I've won every peice of silverware that I can.

Because, get this, different people enjoy different things.

I'll leave you with that, might be a bit tough to someone without a psychology degree to digest.

There are a lot of people who don't like playing the game with regens and start again once all of the original players start retiring. Playing as a lower league club probably doesn't interest them too much. I would imagine most of those only playing short-term games would start off with a team already capable of pushing for trophies.

i play as liverpool as its the team i support an go to the games in real life i have tryed being a lower league team but can never be bothered playin more than half a season as i only care about liverpool an no other teams

Have a look at LLM, they'll probably think you're a glory player.

Do you use player search? Real managers can't look for 'out of contract players with finishing over 17' etc.

Also not everyone has the time to get more than a few seasons into the game, and taking a team from BSS to League 2 and then stopping isn't my idea of fun.

i play as liverpool as its the team i support an go to the games in real life i have tryed being a lower league team but can never be bothered playin more than half a season as i only care about liverpool an no other teams

I feel sorry for you... But not too sorry as I'm Man Utd

Alot of people manage the team they support. Obviously, there will be a lot of fans of the bigger sides who play FM.

The first thing I do when I boot up a new FM is manage Everton - I love the lower league aspect, but I still grab Everton first!

I prefer to work my way up. Start as a lower division/struggling team, get them up to the top and keep them there, move onto a new club and start the process over.

The problem with managing one of the big clubs is unless you're really, really bad at FM (Or purposely trying to get them relegated) you win constantly. There's no challenge really, i'd find it monotonous.

Well isn't this part of what makes this game great? The fact you can take over any club in any league thats in the game? They all present different challenges at different levels. That means OP, that 'proper' challenges exist in every game, and to dig at people who don't play the game as you do is wrong.

I feel sorry for you... But not too sorry as I'm Man Utd

What a stupid thread..... different people like managing different teams. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people have to do the same as yourself.

i start at the top and make my way to the bottom :$

i start at the top and make my way to the bottom :$

That sounds suspiciously familiar to my own post earlier today in this thread:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=4694710#post4694710

Post #16. Pillaging my jokes, I'm disgusted

wink

brings up a new challenge...

take top 4 side and be the quickest to destroy the club

but seriously... the challenge of large clubs is that expectations are sky high so your job is on the line from week to week , and money isnt unlimited in the slightest.. unless your man city or arsenal.

liverpool , man utd and chelsea have sky high debt problems which will cripple the club unless you can balance the books aswell as perform on the pitch..

In many ways, managing a top club is a much harder challenge than bringing a lower league club up the divisions with the same old cheap quality players and the same old expectations

In summary; swings and roundabouts innit guv

It's interesting to see how you can handle the pressure of getting trophies and managing a top club is no walk in the park

I support Liverpool so always like to manage them first, admittedly it does get a little easy after a few seasons and you have won everything, but I'm also managing england at the same time as an extra challenge but I'm looking to start a new game managing someone like west ham soon.

An interesting challenge would be to edit out (remove) Liverpool or Man United's entire squad, and then try to keep them in the Premiership.

No players + Masses of debt + unrealistic expectations (because you'd have no good players) = mission impossible imo.

OP, to answer your question; the point for many in managing a 'top side' is the same as what you want out of the game--enjoyment. I would bet that the people who manage the top sides end their day with as many smiles as you do for 'working your way up.' A number of people have stated on this thread that they simply enjoy it. I would encourage you to think about it from their perspective; if I enjoy managing a 'top side' then why wouldn't I do it?

BTW, I manage Kansas City in MLS to start every save and then earn my reputation from there. That is what is enjoyable to me; and since I paid for this copy of the game, I am going to play it my way...

Instant success...

Pretty much the same reason why people buy frozen pizza, or go to a restaurant, instead of baking the pizza from the dough or preparing a 4 course meal by themselves.

Some enjoy the build-up more than the end-product itself, some want it all, here and now.

Also, let's not forget a Top Club might be easier, because you don't have to earn reputation or cash for it, but on the other hand failure won't be tolerated.

And failure at a Top Club is often just one defeat away.

So forget the long non-winning streaks, or the many uneventful and dull mid-table finishes you can get away with at, say, Stalybridge or Barnet, on your quest to an EPL spot...

When the "minimum goal" is winning the friggin' league every year, and a CL quarter final is the least you can do, well... You'll probably wish you did stay with Northampton, where 250k were big money, but nobody wanted your head served on a silver platter for an unfortunate 1-0 loss.

I enjoy it all. I've played LLM, journeyman games, starting at big clubs, international management, etc. I don't see why you need to attack people who start at big clubs. I have a lot of fun in those games. It's their game and if they enjoy it why does it matter?

Starting at a big club allow you to have players like Messi, Ronaldo, Torres, Drogba, Villa, etc. on your team. At the same time, if you start at a big club the expectations are to win everything. The fun for me comes in actually playing the games. When you have a team full of superstars and design a tactic to suit them, the way they play is just fun to watch.

Like some others, i always pick the club i support. In my case it's Man Utd (and shock i'm born & bred in manchester), the first season or 2 are a little dull, but then there is always the task of regenerating the team as the older players retire and hopefully ensuring some domination despite the Glaziers attempts to bankrupt us.

Some people don't play the game very often and then play as a big club because it can be quicker. Also I have often played as a big club because it's fun just to see the goals fly in against most of the teams in the premiership. To be fair, I think most players have played with both top and smaller clubs. I have played with Gateshead, Arsenal, Barca, QPR, Udinese, Man City, and many smaller clubs who I can't remember at the time.

If I played as a lower league team, I'd only ever get as far as League 1.

I don't have enough time to play to get up to the Premiership. And that's where I like to manage.

I play as Liverpool because I support them. And it's not like there is unlimited cash. You start with a £6m budget (I know, I know, in LLM you could buy the entire league for that kind of cash, blah blah blah) and you're expected to win things with an extremely thin squad. It is most definitely a challenge. I came 3rd in the league and almost lost my job in the second season, and I regularly get harrassed for neglecting the League and FA Cups.

I've tried LLM games and I don't have anywhere near the same enjoyment. For a start, when I don't know the players I'm working with I find I have to give it a good 7-8 hours as a first stab (much like reading a good few chapters of a book to get started or watching 5 or 6 episodes of a TV show to get into it) and I just don't have the time to do it.

And I'm afraid of turning into the self-righteous kinda guy who would make threads like this as well. Ooh, sick burn!

I just like to play as the team I support.

The thing is people come on here saying that the game is easy, and gets easier every year, the people who say stuff like that tend to play as the big sides so of course its going to be easy. Some people tend to prefere to win most games so why be a mid table side where you'll win maybe a third of your games, whats the point in playing the game if you have to work to be successful right?

Give me a journeyman game anyday, i'm East Stirling at the moment and got them upto the 1st division so far.

I always start with the team I support, who are in League one, but always look for a move away if I can get one. Currently six months from promotion to the Premier League (for the first time since FM07 \o/) with Fulham, who are my second club after I moved from Stockport.

the whole thing just reminds me of a discussion i had with a few friends yesterday. 1 of them got called boring. we spoke about this and said while 1 person likes to do certain things, this other person had different interests.

truth is not all of us like the same thing. the good thing about fm is that u can choose numerous things before u start a game so we can all get out of it what we want

I think LLM is essential to getting more out of this game. I've completely lost my desire to start with a top tier team, but I know why people do it, hell I used to do it all the time. I just find that after doing it a few times it is very repetitive and frankly quite easy. But taking a lower league team can provide an interesting challenge, you might succeed.. but if you do the path is long and bumpy.. or you might fail and have to resort to taking on another club. I just find the scenario has a lot more possibilities and excitement.

I think people exaggerate when they say managing small clubs is hard. It's not easy but it's not that much harder.

It's actually quite similar, but does require a lot more effort when it comes to finding players.

Managing a top club can actually be harder if you self impose spending limits, wage limit, etc...

Like so many have said, to each his own.

I don't like LLM, but I don't like managing top-tier teams as well. I like to manage teams that I know and have some history, but have recently fallen by the wayside.

When I do manage top-tier teams (Aston Villa, Roma, PSG). I like to make it fun by making my squad all British, Italian or French, although I do buy foriegn newgens for investment purposes only:D

I think LLM is essential to getting more out of this game.

Not exactly true. I have never began the game with a club in the top tier of any nation (and am right now managing Burscough in the BSN), and I feel like I'm missing out on some parts ot he game. The "LLM" experience is good, but the game is large and simply playing LLM (especially if you follow the austere guidelines laid down by that funny little LLM forum) you will be missing out on about 50% of the game, which is of course European glory, world cup glory, trebles, etc. Not to mention, the game comes with an editor that can be fun to use as well.

If you play LLM, you aren't getting more out of the game. That's the same as only playing top tier clubs. You have to do both to "get more out of the game."

Best put: Play how you want and what you think is fun. That's how you'll "get more" out of the game.

I went from Servette to West Ham in my career game and having quite a lot of fun.

I do sometimes wish I could play with a big club, not to win everything - but to actually for once - know what it is like to under-achieve with players like Messi, Ronaldo and Rooney.

I daresay LLM is actually easier than managing a Top Club...

"Good" players for LLM are usually less complicated to evaluate, expectations are lower, board and fans are usually more patient, you can take your time while trying to build up a team good enough to challenge for the FA Trophy or for winning whatever slightly less lower league you're playing in etc.

All that is not something you can do at a Top Club, where odds are you're gonna get sacked if you don't reach the final of every Cup you're in, all of that while winnig the league, not upsetting the many star players you have and not going bankrupt paying them...

Also, constantly digging the Free Agents list looking for a semi-decent CB or Striker, instead of enjoying Worldclass players, isn't exactly my idea of "gatting more out of the game"

It's like saying you date ugly girls because every chump likes to date the cute ones...

I player lower league clubs but in a sense its the oposite why play low clubs get frustrated at losing its what you enjoy and make.

Some like the challenge of molding super sides that dominate some like torture of picking the worst side and improving them or not in many cases;)

It's like saying you date ugly girls because every chump likes to date the cute ones...

Hahahaha fair analogy.

Something I don't think has been mentioned -

if we assume it's 'easier' to manage a big club, then that can still represent a challenge to some who might not know as much about tactics, or play a certain way, or are just not generally very good. These people shouldn't be derided because a big club gives them the satisfaction.

Maybe it is because I am a perfectionist who likes doing things the hard way, but I fail to see what bucket full of enjoyment people can get out of managing a top side with almost unlimited cash and reputation, and who have great players to begin with.

Any man and his dog can win titles and cups with such sides.

But if you want to take Barca, Real, Man U etc etc to dizzy heights, wouldn't it be more satisfying to change a v low side with the editor (before a game creation) to Barca, Man U etc, and likewise change the top side's name to (for example) the name of the club whose name you changed. (You could even swap the sadium names too so that you coud still play at OT or the Bernabaeu, albeit with an extremely low capacity).

Then you can have the 'proper' challenge of trying to win the Premiership/Champs Lg etc starting from absolutely nothing.

But I don't want to start with nothing. I almost always play as United (Man) and I have one aim throughout the game. To take the legacy that is my club to new heights. In earlier games it was to beat Liverpool's league record (not hard now ) and then to attempt to beat Madrid's run of wins. But not in the "buy the best" way but in the United Way. Youngsters I've brought through the youth ranks who have the passion for the club in their hearts.

That's a true test for me.

Bestie.

well its all relative isn't it. I disagree that its any easier or harder at higher or lower levels because all of the clubs in each league operate under the same parameters. If you are Hull in the prem its the same as Scunthorpe in the CC. Teams can only be ranked in their own league in comparison to the top and bottom team. I agree with what the OP is saying in principle.... but I think he is more talking about purchasing success with higher teams...

With bigger teams comes greater responsibility and pressure. If you're at Man U or Barca you may have great players and lots of money but if you don't win something in the first season you're almost certainly going to get fired.

I think what makes the game easy is if you have a club with a high budget relative to their competition, an unambitious board or a team that already has a core of good players for the league they're in. That could apply to Man U, Leeds or any number of teams from pretty much any league in the game.

Not exactly true. I have never began the game with a club in the top tier of any nation (and am right now managing Burscough in the BSN), and I feel like I'm missing out on some parts ot he game. The "LLM" experience is good, but the game is large and simply playing LLM (especially if you follow the austere guidelines laid down by that funny little LLM forum) you will be missing out on about 50% of the game, which is of course European glory, world cup glory, trebles, etc. Not to mention, the game comes with an editor that can be fun to use as well.

If you play LLM, you aren't getting more out of the game. That's the same as only playing top tier clubs. You have to do both to "get more out of the game."

Best put: Play how you want and what you think is fun. That's how you'll "get more" out of the game.

My comment was based on the assumption that most people will have tried top tier teams first. After that experience has run its course then LLM provides a new one to keep the game fresh.

But of course if you have never managed Barca, United etc then you should give it a shot.

I'm a Liverpool fan too, and cannot be bothered to manage any other teams. My main challenge in FM is to get Liverpool to the top of the world - and that's not the easiest of tasks.. Actually.

While I agree with what most are saying here, play how you want to play, you paid money for the game if you want to be Manu or Barnet it does not matter, it's what gives you enjoyment, the one thing I have found from starting in different leagues with different teams, it gives me something else to look out for on a Saturday, like how Dumbarton did in the Scottish cup, or if Barrow got an away draw at Southport etc.

For me that is one of the things I have taken most from FM, being able to smile when I see an abstract team beating someone who I've lost to in the game. That is the only thing I think you don't get when you manage the tried and tested clubs.

That said I'm playing as Hibs at the moment, trying to wrestle the title away from Celtic who have won the last 6! Once I've managed that and taken them into the group stages of the CL, I may save the game then resign and head off into the Scottish 3rd Division and see what I can do with Annan Athletic.

I always planned on taking over a small club in some foreign land then making a pilgrimage to see them, maybe the German lower leagues, head off to a game one weekend to watch the team play for real while eating a curryworst and having a stein of beer. Not sure what the wife would say about that but I can dream.

feel really sorry for you then mate with all that debt

Haha, a Liverpool fan having a dig about United's debt?

Both clubs are up shyte creek in that regard.