GAME OVER for FM

I have been playing CM/FM since I was 18. I am now 34.

I would like to say that I definitely will not be bying FM 2011.

The reason is that I feel that I have cheated. The same happened last year with all the problems but not to that extent.

The reason for making this statement is that, at least for me, the game is not playable at all.

I have not yet managed to progress to a second day in a season as I am getting crash dump errors all the time.

I have re-installed Java,updated drivers made all the necessary actions but no change.

I have a 2,4 Core Duo Intel Processor

2GB of Ram

I am monitoring the memory and is quite low at the time of the crash (fm: 500MB).

I do not mind for my money spent on the Game, I mind though for the fact that many children aged 12-16 play the game, may not have access on the internet, may not be familiar with patching a game, and 30 euros is a significant amount for them.

I really want to ask SI and I hope that someone can answer that:

How is it possible to miss such problems during testing?

PC/Mac games, by their very nature, can never be as reliable as a console game because everyones machine on which they play the game on is different.

For example, I've had one crash dump error. You've apparently had many.

However, you can't necessarily blame SI for that. They cannot make a game with 100% stability on thousands of different types of platforms. This isn't Call of Duty, played on reliably symmetric gaming systems.

I'd suggest download the demo before purchasing in the future.

have you dl patch 2? Personally i stil on patch 1 and have no crash dumps plus i autosave evcery week just incase.

have you dl patch 2? Personally i stil on patch 1 and have no crash dumps plus i autosave evcery week just incase.

Tubey I agree, but my laptop is a mainstream laptop, it should work

Yes, I am on 10.2

I will try later to upload screenshots of the crash dumps

Thanks

This thread makes me feel so smug.

I have not had a single crash on any patch on this game so far.

Using any custom graphics packs? Skins? or 3rd party tools?

Tubey I agree, but my laptop is a mainstream laptop, it should work

Yes, I am on 10.2

I will try later to upload screenshots of the crash dumps

Thanks

There's no such thing as a "mainstream" or "standard" laptop mate, because every program you download makes a difference to the settings.

It's just really unfortunate. I'd suggest re-installing and I definitely would recommend downloading the FM11 demo before you get the retail game in the future.

To the OP. Have you tried running AV software, up to date anti-spyware software and defragged your hard drive? Apologies if you have, but I know that a lot of peoples home PCs are in an atrocious state (i.e. no housekeeping has ever been performed) it wouldn't surprise me if it slowed things down or caused crashes.

There's no such thing as a "mainstream" or "standard" laptop mate, because every program you download makes a difference to the settings.

It's just really unfortunate. I'd suggest re-installing and I definitely would recommend downloading the FM11 demo before you get the retail game in the future.

By mainstream I mean that it has a very likely configuration and the programs installed are the most common on the market (office, etc).

What should I do then? Start unistalling programs in order to avoid having crash dumps in fm?

Has SI provided an incompatibility list? I guess no

Has SI provided an incompatibility list? I guess no

Do you realise the amount of potential configurations of hardware? Hell, even PCs shipped as identical models from stores have different internal components from each other.

I have been playing CM/FM since I was 18. I am now 34.

I would like to say that I definitely will not be bying FM 2011.

The reason is that I feel that I have cheated. The same happened last year with all the problems but not to that extent.

The reason for making this statement is that, at least for me, the game is not playable at all.

I have not yet managed to progress to a second day in a season as I am getting crash dump errors all the time.

I have re-installed Java,updated drivers made all the necessary actions but no change.

I have a 2,4 Core Duo Intel Processor

2GB of Ram

I am monitoring the memory and is quite low at the time of the crash (fm: 500MB).

I do not mind for my money spent on the Game, I mind though for the fact that many children aged 12-16 play the game, may not have access on the internet, may not be familiar with patching a game, and 30 euros is a significant amount for them.

I really want to ask SI and I hope that someone can answer that:

How is it possible to miss such problems during testing?

I agree. I posted a like complaint asking SI to clarify when they would remedy the defect and after a day or so, no reply. A lie has been created that its down to your computer but its not. My computer far exceeds the specifications stated on the box and it crashes. However, any hint of frustration at this and they will gladly close your topic.

I wholeheartedly agree with your concern for youngsters and it's a pity that SI have treated them with such contempt by not apologising or acknowleding their wrongs. If you ask when will a patch be released to remedy the defect, they will close your topic. Someone like watchdog or the Director of Consumer Affairs should liik into this.

The game can be enjoyable (which may add to frsutration when it crashes) but it has many bugs. Bugs can be dealt with - they just make the game good/bad/great/stupid - whatever subjective opinions one may have. But the crashes are a completely different ball game. I'm pretty much of the view that if the game is bad or infected with bugs (as FM has been on a continuious basis) there is no entitlement to a refund. However, if its defective and crashing the whole time, then any youngster should be entitled to a refund - especially if the user's machine meets the requirements stated on the FM packaging.

The pattern have very much become release a game to get the cash, irrespective of whether its up to scratch or not. Release a patch based on all the bugs reported around Christmas and tell the consumers they should thankful. Release a third based on further bugs reported and that's that. Take great offence to any suggestion that you have done the above.

I couldn't be bothered asking for a refund but I'm firmly of the view the game is defective (as opposed to bug infested). I won't be wasting my money on any of their products again.

"The best thing that you can do is report the issue in the bugs section and provide as much information as you can and we can try and find out what is causing it."

Possible cause of crash - Memory leak? - 1,578 replies!!!

The Frustration Of FM 2010!! Crash Dump Error Galore!! - 337 replies!!!

I myself have submitted info and data (with no reply). There is plenty of info out there. More than most off-line games ever managed to gathered. And let's not forget that FM is not the only application that stumbles upon different configurations, every other game out there gets at this hurdle.

Not that I want to cause a heated discussion as that's not my intent, but surely everyone would be receiving crash dump errors if the game was defective? The problem is, as someone has already stated, there are so many different combinations of hardware, software and PC configurations out there that its impossible to test and cater for all of them upon release. On any game forum you look at someone will detail an issue or fault and Football Manager is no different.

I have actually been very impressed with SI's support this year, more so with the early release of patches to try and fix the general issues. Even if I was receiving crash dump errors, I would be trying everything humanly possible before coming onto the forum and slating SI, branding that their game is 'defective' and you will no longer be a part of the series. After all, you have the demo which you should try prior to release to ensure the game runs smoothly on your machine - if it doesn't then I see no point in buying it?

Also, I don't think your argument regarding the young market is justified. I think they deserve far more credit than you're giving them, as most these days know how to use PC's and the Internet at a stupidly early age. That's not even taking into consideration that their parents / elders could help in some fashion, so I think you should stick to fixing your own problem rather than looking to make it worse with assumptions.

Here's hoping that you're problem will be resolved soon and that you'll retract your comments

I have never had it crash on me and i have been 5 seasons into the game. The only issue I had was that the 3D ME did some funny graphicially glitches but a updated graphics driver sorted that out. Personnally I love the game - yes there are issue but nothing serious. I would say that most crashes are to do with the machine running them.

I do not mind for my money spent on the Game, I mind though for the fact that many children aged 12-16 play the game, may not have access on the internet, may not be familiar with patching a game, and 30 euros is a significant amount for them.

Then they have a problem with many games. Hopefully the same parents that let a 12 years old play an advanced football management simulation have the time to help them get the latest patch..

I have played FM for ages, and have never had any problem with the game crashing... to me this FM is the best ever.

so I think you should stick to fixing your own problem rather than looking to make it worse with assumptions.

I'll falsify that. I have two PC's: one for work and one for free-time. The second (on wich I play) has nothing installed on it except: OS, drivers, Java, dX, .Net, etc, web browser and an antivirus (which is not turned on while playing), an audio player and video player; all at the very latest version. For anything else I use portable applications. Specs are up-to-par and only mid-range components from the basic manufacturers (ATI, AMD and MSI)... no defragmentation, no malware of any kind, no hardware conflicts. Still I can barely play for more than 30/40 mins. and most of the matches I play are repeats of the previously crashed one. And, no: there were no crashes in the demo.

Not that I want to cause a heated discussion as that's not my intent, but surely everyone would be receiving crash dump errors if the game was defective? The problem is, as someone has already stated, there are so many different combinations of hardware, software and PC configurations out there that its impossible to test and cater for all of them upon release. On any game forum you look at someone will detail an issue or fault and Football Manager is no different.

I have actually been very impressed with SI's support this year, more so with the early release of patches to try and fix the general issues. Even if I was receiving crash dump errors, I would be trying everything humanly possible before coming onto the forum and slating SI, branding that their game is 'defective' and you will no longer be a part of the series. After all, you have the demo which you should try prior to release to ensure the game runs smoothly on your machine - if it doesn't then I see no point in buying it?

Also, I don't think your argument regarding the young market is justified. I think they deserve far more credit than you're giving them, as most these days know how to use PC's and the Internet at a stupidly early age. That's not even taking into consideration that their parents / elders could help in some fashion, so I think you should stick to fixing your own problem rather than looking to make it worse with assumptions.

Here's hoping that you're problem will be resolved soon and that you'll retract your comments

I suggest you read "Ter's" post above and Mastema's. They should make it pretty clear to you that you are way off the mark in suggesting there is no defect with the game. Read the bugs forum. Read the complaints about crashes. Are you saying all these posters know nothing about computers/specs etc? And bear in mind, not everyone who has had crashes has posted on this forum. You can believe what you wish but its pretty silly for someone to ignore the level of posts on the bugs (and other) forums and assume that it must be all their computers. SI are silent on the issue. If some one enjoys the game and hasn't had crashes then best of luck to them. But if someone feels cheated because they are still encoutering problems with crashes, they have every right to feel ripped off. Again I suggest you read the bugs forum.

Also, I don't think your argument regarding the young market is justified. I think they deserve far more credit than you're giving them, as most these days know how to use PC's and the Internet at a stupidly early age. That's not even taking into consideration that their parents / elders could help in some fashion, so I think you should stick to fixing your own problem rather than looking to make it worse with assumptions.

This. I wanted to make the point in my earlier post, but this sums up my feelings in a better way. Pulling the 'Think of The Children!" card in relation to your PC game crashing is a little extreme.

May I suggest running Memtest just to remove the possibility of it being RAM faults?

Also, have you tried it on the other machine and if so does it work fine? I know you say the other is for work so there's a possibility that you may not wish to do so, but it would be an interesting test.

Have you done anything using the editor as well?

You can believe what you wish but its pretty silly for someone to ignore the level of posts on the bugs (and other) forums and assume that it must be all their computers

Let me clarify - I know there are bugs and I know people are experiencing issues. But it's not a case of every user having problems, in fact I would say there are a large majority of people playing the game quite happily and have no reason to post on the forum. I also did not intend to make out that people with issues no nothing about PC's - but some people aren't helping matters by expecting SI to know the problem and to fix it straight away.

I have never had it crash on me and i have been 5 seasons into the game. The only issue I had was that the 3D ME did some funny graphicially glitches but a updated graphics driver sorted that out. Personnally I love the game - yes there are issue but nothing serious. I would say that most crashes are to do with the machine running them.

There would then appear to be a significant amount of faulty machines on the market. Fortunately those faulty machines only have problems with FM.

There would then appear to be a significant amount of faulty machines on the market. Fortunately those faulty machines only have problems with FM.

I run FM10 perfectly on this machine. I also play World of Warcraft.

However, WoW doesn't work properly and I get a black screen of death every so often due to what is an obvious incompatibility with Radeon graphics cards.

If you have a look on the WoW forums, hundreds of thousands of people have a wide range of unique problems. Yet, on the other hand, millions play with no problems whatsoever.

It isn't a problem solely with SI. SI have done a brilliant job this year on compatability and support. But they aren't going to have a universal success rate with a PC/Mac game, and no game ever will.

I suggest you read "Ter's" post above and Mastema's. They should make it pretty clear to you that you are way off the mark in suggesting there is no defect with the game. Read the bugs forum. Read the complaints about crashes. Are you saying all these posters know nothing about computers/specs etc? And bear in mind, not everyone who has had crashes has posted on this forum. You can believe what you wish but its pretty silly for someone to ignore the level of posts on the bugs (and other) forums and assume that it must be all their computers. SI are silent on the issue. If some one enjoys the game and hasn't had crashes then best of luck to them. But if someone feels cheated because they are still encoutering problems with crashes, they have every right to feel ripped off. Again I suggest you read the bugs forum.

you state its a defect with the game because of the amount or replies the bugs forum has, looking at it from the other side, ever thought it might be some set up with the game that is different because of the thousands of people who are playing fine?

you state its a defect with the game because of the amount or replies the bugs forum has, looking at it from the other side, ever thought it might be some set up with the game that is different because of the thousands of people who are playing fine?

This is exactly the problem. There are those not encountering problmes who are taking the view that since they aren't experiencing crashes, SI are perfect and all those taking the time to report the issue must be wrong. What any reading of these forums (bugs etc) make clear is that the crash defect is widely reported, and in many cases where the specs far exceed SI's stated requirements. Why was 10.1.1 released? What was the issue again addressed in 10.2? Why are there still issues? It would be preferable for you to simpy go and an enjoy your game if you are not having problems with it. If you find some spare time later, maybe you could run down to your hospital and tell the patients that there's nothing wrong with them, after all you're in good health. And if they report any illness or sumptoms to their doctor, just assume they're making it all up since you don't have any such symptoms.

This is exactly the problem. There are those not encountering problmes who are taking the view that since they aren't experiencing crashes, SI are perfect and all those taking the time to report the issue must be wrong. What any reading of these forums (bugs etc) make clear is that the crash defect is widely reported, and in many cases where the specs far exceed SI's stated requirements. Why was 10.1.1 released? What was the issue again addressed in 10.2? Why are there still issues? It would be preferable for you to simpy go and an enjoy your game if you are not having problems with it. If you find some spare time later, maybe you could run down to your hospital and tell the patients that there's nothing wrong with them, after all you're in good health. And if they report any illness or sumptoms to their doctor, just assume they're making it all up since you don't have any such symptoms.

Perfect example. If a bit sick.

Let's say you go to a ward and all the patients have a rare genetic disease. Does this mean that everyone in the world has the possibility of getting this disease?

No, because its each individual human that has different genetic make-ups, even if the disease remains the same.

Replace the word "human" with PC, and disease with "Football Manager", and perhaps you'll start looking at things logically.

Or not. Because it is a damn obscure example even to me, and I wrote it!

stuff....

im not denying there are issues some people are having its the over the top right IM having crash problems therfore the game is to blame and that means its the games fault nothing to do with the machine im running it on theory that a small minority of people are taking SI ARENT perfect there ARE bugs and if they are know to SI there is no point but childish behavior of LOOK AT ME IM HAVING PROBLEMS SORT ME OUT FIRST type of post that are posted in GD, the place is flooded with those threads, post it in the bugs forum and let SI get on with trying to fix it, give them as much info as possible and give them specs to try and replicate it as with dumps if they cant replicate it they cant do very much. the real problem of this forums is more to do with the attitude of genralization that if im having no problems i "think" SI is perfect if your having problems SI must be useless etc...

I run FM10 perfectly on this machine. I also play World of Warcraft.

However, WoW doesn't work properly and I get a black screen of death every so often due to what is an obvious incompatibility with Radeon graphics cards.

If you have a look on the WoW forums, hundreds of thousands of people have a wide range of unique problems. Yet, on the other hand, millions play with no problems whatsoever.

It isn't a problem solely with SI. SI have done a brilliant job this year on compatability and support. But they aren't going to have a universal success rate with a PC/Mac game, and no game ever will.

Tubey84, I would say that it is most certainly a problem with SI if someone buys the game on the basis of the requirements stated on the box. If their machine can comfortably deal with the requirements stated on the box, and it crashes, it is SI's problem and they should be entitled to a refund as the game is "not doing what it says on the tin". If the problem is an excess of screaming 35 yarders, transfer market madness, defenders who don't tackle, goalies who have their own ways etc, etc, too many goals from corners, that's just the game being good or bad and you take it or leave it - no refund issues there. But the crashes are a completely different ball game.

Perfect example. If a bit sick.

Let's say you go to a ward and all the patients have a rare genetic disease. Does this mean that everyone in the world has the possibility of getting this disease?

No, because its each individual human that has different genetic make-ups, even if the disease remains the same.

Replace the word "human" with PC, and disease with "Football Manager", and perhaps you'll start looking at things logically.

Or not. Because it is a damn obscure example even to me, and I wrote it!

SI state the specifications on the box. Person's computer is well in excess of those specifications. Game crashes. You blame the consumer. I say you are wrong.

im not denying there are issues some people are having its the over the top right IM having crash problems therfore the game is to blame and that means its the games fault nothing to do with the machine im running it on theory that a small minority of people are taking SI ARENT perfect there ARE bugs and if they are know to SI there is no point but childish behavior of LOOK AT ME IM HAVING PROBLEMS SORT ME OUT FIRST type of post that are posted in GD, the place is flooded with those threads, post it in the bugs forum and let SI get on with trying to fix it, give them as much info as possible and give them specs to try and replicate it as with dumps if they cant replicate it they cant do very much. the real problem of this forums is more to do with the attitude of genralization that if im having no problems i "think" SI is perfect if your having problems SI must be useless etc...

Hope your English studies continue to be a roaring success.

Hope your English studies continue to be a roaring success.

why the personal attack on my spelling and grammer? what does it bring to the thread?

SI state the specifications on the box. Person's computer is well in excess of those specifications. Game crashes. You blame the consumer. I say you are wrong.

Last time i looked the spec on the back of the box is Recommended it doesnt state if you have that setup it will DEFINITLY work

OP - have you gone to preferences and unticked "enable data collection" - this was being linked with some people's issues, I think. Might be worth a try if everything else is up to speed.

Heh. One sure way to get thread closed - personal attacks or trolling. Leave it out please.

SI state the specifications on the box. Person's computer is well in excess of those specifications. Game crashes. You blame the consumer. I say you are wrong.

I'm not blaming you as the consumer at all. I'm stating that even if your machine meets specifications, they're a guideline. If you had a full list of "definite" PC settings for a game to work, A) Only about 10 people worldwide could buy the game in total confidence and B) the case would have to be around 10 metres long to cover the specifications!

The specs don't constitute a contract. You buy a game - any game - for the PC at your own risk. That's why nearly every single PC game has a demo downloadable prior to release.

I'm sorry, but you're being completely blind to common sense. I have problems with a few other games on this PC, so I know how you feel, but not once have I thought it the gamemakers exclusive fault as I know how temperamental home PC's can be.

OP - have you gone to preferences and unticked "enable data collection" - this was being linked with some people's issues, I think. Might be worth a try if everything else is up to speed.

Can you please clarify? Will this work on a save game? Does it materially affect game/data? My computer is new, way in excess of specs on box. Played 1 season - 4 or 5 crashes.

It's not going to affect your save game in any way and you can do it at any time.

I'm not blaming you as the consumer at all. I'm stating that even if your machine meets specifications, they're a guideline. If you had a full list of "definite" PC settings for a game to work, A) Only about 10 people worldwide could buy the game in total confidence and B) the case would have to be around 10 metres long to cover the specifications!

The specs don't constitute a contract. You buy a game - any game - for the PC at your own risk. That's why nearly every single PC game has a demo downloadable prior to release.

I'm sorry, but you're being completely blind to common sense. I have problems with a few other games on this PC, so I know how you feel, but not once have I thought it the gamemakers exclusive fault as I know how temperamental home PC's can be.

You buy a game and yes, if it is crap, you are stuck with it. But if its defective, that's different.

Please explain why there were little/no complaints about crashes in FM09 and prior releases and all of a sudden there is a raft of them for FM10, pasrticluarly as the stated goal of FM10 was "polish" ie improve the existing.

It's not going to affect your save game in any way and you can do it at any time.

Is this the most common "cure"/suggested "cure"?

I think the OP is a valid argument/statement about how poorly alot of customers feel they are treated by SI/Sega when there are difficulties in playing the game on their systems.

I particularly agree with regards to the minors that buy the game and expect it to work 'out of the box'. There have been numerous posts from agrieved parents on here about how their kid has had to have access to the internet to download a patch just to get the game working when their system meets the specifications listed on the box.

I don't think anyone expects perfection from SI/Sega and thankfully this year has been so much better than the FM2009 launch which was an absolute disgrace but I do think that they need to consider better ways of managing these problems.

Heh. One sure way to get thread closed - personal attacks or trolling. Leave it out please.

Firstly, I would like to thank you for your response.

Secondly, yes I have disabled "enable data collection"

Thirdly, the dump error message relates to something like "fm wc competitions". Mind that I have not added any custom xml relating to competition fixtures or any additional leagues. Currently, I do not have access to my PC to provide the details. I will do that later though

Fourthly, I would like to say that I play the game for 14 years now. I have never contribruted in the blog again in the past, as I have limited time too. In order to do so, and write that I will not be bying fm2011 you must realize that there are things with the game that are bad and need radical improvement.

Finally, I would like to say that my intention, even with this critique is constructive and not to blame anyone.

I do not understand people who enter a game's blog and attacking personally. I mean grow up, it is only a game, you do not need to attack people

I particularly agree with regards to the minors that buy the game and expect it to work 'out of the box'. There have been numerous posts from agrieved parents on here about how their kid has had to have access to the internet to download a patch just to get the game working when their system meets the specifications listed on the box.

Now that such patching is required on console games, maybe they could consider this a useful lesson in current computer games and their systems. Heh, they should be thankful they don't have to wait for the patch to be mounted on a games magazine coverdisk. Like when I was a lad. (If the game was even patched at all).

To the poster above: nice try.

Have you tested your hardware for errors? FM has always been a game that strains the PC a lot, sometimes better than a crash test, and problems that stay hidden when you're surfing or using say MS Office will come to light when you run FM. I'm speaking from experience - the one time I had major problems with stability of a FM-series game, it turned out one of my RAM chips was malfunctioning.

Have you tested your hardware for errors? FM has always been a game that strains the PC a lot, sometimes better than a crash test, and problems that stay hidden when you're surfing or using say MS Office will come to light when you run FM. I'm speaking from experience - the one time I had major problems with stability of a FM-series game, it turned out one of my RAM chips was malfunctioning.

Yes FM is not for the faint computers but surely if the problem lay with people's computers, then there should have been some uproar with crash dumps in Fm09, FM08 etc? Particularly as FM09 was 3D and as the stated objective of FM10 was "polish".

MeesterCat they shouldn't be thankful at all that they don't have to wait for an antiquated method like the above to be used.

Time has moved on and so should the standards of game developers and retailers, I personally think a much better warning on the box regarding patches, compatability, etc should be used.

MeesterCat they shouldn't be thankful at all that they don't have to wait for an antiquated method like the above to be used.

Time has moved on and so should the standards of game developers and retailers, I personally think a much better warning on the box regarding patches, compatability, etc should be used.

Agreed. One wonders what the FM11 Box would say if that were required : - "Consumers shoud note that this game is unfinished because we need the cash before year's end, so you can download a patch the day of release - that's right today! This patch will deal with some of the bugs. More of the bugs we'll deal with sometime before Christmas - but don't you dare ask when. The rest will be done in a few months time in February or sometime in February. Log on to our fanboy v complain boy website. WARNNG GAME MAY CRASH!"

Is this the most common "cure"/suggested "cure"?

Honestly, I only know what I've read on here - some people in the tech forum reported that this was helping with crashes. I don't believe it's a universal solution but it's worth trying as it's easy, and zero-impact on the customer...

Let us know how you go...

MeesterCat they shouldn't be thankful at all that they don't have to wait for an antiquated method like the above to be used.

Time has moved on and so should the standards of game developers and retailers, I personally think a much better warning on the box regarding patches, compatability, etc should be used.

Oh I agree that time has moved on. Its a good thing. I can't help but think that plastering the box (or indeed, warnings prior to download if bought in such a way) would make no difference whatsover. How often do you see parents buying their children games which have an 18+ certificate. Or even, how many parents actually understand the little blurb on the bottom of the box about recommended specs.

I think people have to realise that games released for the PC will sometimes encounter problems, sometimes for reasons that seem random and bizarre and often with no obvious cause. Its very annoying if it occurs to you, but its the nature of the beast. Developers can do their best to minimise such things, and indeed if something big is causing issues, they can resolve it via (ha!) patching, but there is no silver bullet cure-all.

Yes FM is not for the faint computers but surely if the problem lay with people's computers, then there should have been some uproar with crash dumps in Fm09, FM08 etc? Particularly as FM09 was 3D and as the stated objective of FM10 was "polish".

But of course there was. Both FM08 and FM09 had their fair share of these - type "crash dump" into the search box and you'll get 10+ pages about crash dumps, starting more or less with this one about FM 2007.

If you've followed the advice provided on the forums then the best recommendation I can make it to contact Customer Services. They're the technical experts (I'm certainly not) and will give you the best chance of getting the game running.

There are details in your manual or you can contact them online via here - http://help.sega.com/?t=EnglishUSA&group=englishusa

I'm not sure why people can't see both sides of this argument. It's both.

If it was JUST the game, then everyone would have crash dumps. So that points to computer setups also being to blame. The memory leaks were certainly a problem with the game and the patches have attempted to fix that. To fix crash dumps 100% for everyone is almost impossible.

I agree that you cannot warn against everything and it would have to be done in a professional and competent way. However these crashes, game instability, patches now fixing major bugs and not just tweaks, etc have been happening for years now. SI/Sega seem to be trying to push the game on as fast as possible technologically wise but do seem to have extreme difficulties in keeping the game stable for the PC systems that it will be used on.

I'm not sure how the testing is conducted or how much they know is wrong when they decide to release the game but enough people are having problems for there to be a concern.