Is there an "I win" button for the AI?

Ok, I'm Milan, 1/4 final Champions League, playing away against Sporting. I managed to score early on, and Sporting was a bit better afterward. I'm thinking, ok, I'm playing a narrow formation through the middle, Sporting have a big pitch and play with AML/R, it's bound to be dangerous from time to time. They managed to score one while I missed a couple of chances more. It's 89 minute, they score another one. I've tried to change something and the game crashed, so I reloaded. Next time I've lost 3:0, was totally destroyed. I reloaded again as I wasn't ready to lose with more than 2:1, since that was the result when the game crashed.

Next match 3:1. they seemed to score goals at will. Next time 2:0 by 20th minute and I got a red car. I quit the game, seriously pi**ed off. After a while, I calmed down and reloaded. Lost 3:2. Ok, I can accept that, it's a goal difference and I waited eagerly for a rematch on my small pitch.

Second leg came. I'm totally destroying them, possession 60:40, they didn't create a single decent chance and I'm up 3:0 by half time. Couple of more good chances in the second half for me and then Liedson from 20 meters 3:1. Five minutes later Liedson from 25 meters 3:2. Ten minutes later Liedson from 25 meters 3:3, through my defender and my goalkeeper. Three goals, just like that, it happened in 1 minute in real-life. Just bam-bam-bam over.

Now I'm seriously pi**ed off and I reload again. Again I'm dominating and creating chances and finally I manage to score 1. Second half I'm dominating again. Come 89th minute. I'm on the offensive close to their box and Pirlo, even though he wasn't under pressure or anything decides to pass the ball back to Dida. Some 75 meters pass backward!!! He doesn't pass straight to the keeper but somewhere in the direction of corner flag. Dida gets to the ball and puts it out for a corner. Corner, Vukcevic to Liedson and a cracking header for 1:1. 91st minute. I've turned off the game to cool down. I wasn't so angry about a game since I was a kid!

Is it possible that it is all just bad luck? I don't know how to believe in that anymore. It's like the game decided that Sporting are supposed to go through and nothing I do can change that.

No there is not.

Expect this thread to go on for a page or two before Neil Brock [or Matt - SEGA] posts the following:

Ok. I'm closing this as it's going nowhere

(Or words to that effect)

No there is not.

Expect this thread to go on for a page or two before Neil Brock [or Matt - SEGA] posts the following:

(Or words to that effect)

Dude, I would say, "Holy crap, your psychic"

But.. I think we all know that is going to happen

as i said in the other similar thread:

i too have had a similar scenario to the original poster only over a slightly greater time period. for 5 seasons i used the same 442 formation and settings with literally no tweaks between seasons. this was enough to see me with a greater finish season after season until my 6th season.

having just acheived 5th in the league the year before i was confident i could gain promotion. especially having brought in ferrie bodde and hedwiges maduro into the spanish second division team! they are surely better than the previous midfielders. no doubt i will be told that my players need time to gel but they are the two signings only that i made! plus i dont think it can account for a slip from a 5th place finish to 11th at christmas. it is just overwhelming and slightly odd. i have tried tweaking the formation and playing 451 and nothing works and i get defeated by teams near the bottom of the league. i just dont understand at all.

Half time Teamtalk = none, except for the best player. (have faith)

No drastic tactical changes.

Sub tired players.

This usually works wonders.

If you keep loosing important matches, it's probably due to your lack of motivational skills. (press conference and full time team talk in the last match) (and maybe even tactics )

ive never ever done a press conference. and ive always let my ass man talk the team talks. what had changed that suddenly how they work is different?

i also sat with my tactic playing for about 10 matches in the bad run and it didnt pick up.

Yes, there is indeed an 'I win' button for the AI, which SI implimented shortly before they shot a puppy for no particular reason...

No but seriously the guy who said half time teamtalk = none is right, I used to be constantly fighting with the AI to try and get some form of consistency but it's mostly down to player morale and motivation and things like that

Is there an "I win" button for the AI?

Yes, there is. Its under the bar at the top, just before match day. Its called "Play Match"

To be fair everything everyone ever complains about has worked in my favour in my current save.

Keepers kept me in plenty of games.

I've come back from 3-0 down in the first half away from home. Last goal came in the last attack of the match.

**** players have scored belters.

Really it's a case of you win some you lose some with this game.

Selective memory, is what it is, bardock. People never remember when it happens for them.

i remember perfectly what happened for me. im just askign why the sudden switch when i havent changed anything?

never say pleased at half time. That's the "I lose" button lol

Sometimes I found that the AI responds to my tactical changes a bit too sensitively. Eg. I change my tactic, and AI changes their tactic like 5 seconds later. I change again, then they change again 5 seconds later.

Doesn't happen all the time though.

If you are losing, there's usually a good reason. Tactically, usually things like tempo, D line, width, wasting time has a lot of effect on the result of the game. Often gotta change those settings a bit to dominate more.

i remember perfectly what happened for me. im just askign why the sudden switch when i havent changed anything?

Maybe you didn't, and the AI did, and because you didn't, the AI capitalised?

i remember perfectly what happened for me. im just askign why the sudden switch when i havent changed anything?

You may have answered your own question, there. Even the AI learns...

but we are told over and over that the ai doesnt crack tactics, ie LEARN.

so does it learn or doesnt it learn?

but we are told over and over that the ai doesnt crack tactics, ie LEARN.

so does it learn or doesnt it learn?

well, no tactic is 100% unbeatable, so maybe the way the AI team lined up is just the type of formation that takes perfect advantage of your tactics?

surely you can't expect your team to keep their best form for the whole season.

And even more so if you are letting your assman do the teamtalks and press conference. Sometimes the assman has no idea what he is talking about, and therefore can easily make the players unhappy or cocky.

Yes, there is indeed an 'I win' button for the AI, which SI implimented shortly before they shot a puppy for no particular reason...

SI shoot puppies?! Well thats it then, I'm going back to CM. At least they only drown kittens...

SI shoot puppies?! Well thats it then, I'm going back to CM. At least they only drown kittens...

No you can't play CM, because they force monkeys to smoke cigarettes

ok. but if you both read the last lot of my posts youd know more about the situation.

i have used the same tactic for 5 seasons previously. i have ALWAYS let my ass man handle press conferences and teamtalks, and have ALWAYS used the same tactic. for five seasons this helped me get good results and win promotions. why the sudden change of form to winning no games and struggling. i have not changed anything whatsoever, so nothing on my situation has changed at all. so why would the way in which these factors effect games change suddenly??

similarly, against your point of not wanting to keep up best form for the whole season - i dont expect taht, but 1) i dont expect my team to drop from 5th place to 10th midway and 2) i havent had any good form at all this season. every win i have scraped together. it happens against all teams as well, not just one. i find myself struggling against lower oppostion than mine with lesser players.

also if it is the case that the ai is lined up in a good way to counter me, why does every club do this at the same time? why would every manager in the league be able to create a system that can counter my play in the same season? it makes no sense to me at all.

It's probably just selective memory although sometimes matches do seem to be a bit strange. Sometimes it seems no matter what you do you're not going to win the game.

I've just been knocked out of 1/8 finals of the Champions League by Arsenal after I won the first game 1-0. In the second leg they won 3-1 by scoring goals at will without creating anything at all. I missed 6 CCCs, had two goals disallowed, hit the post two times and yet my keeper decides for the first time ever it would be a good idea to dribble outside the area But yeah, it's probably true we don't remember it when it happens FOR us. When SI say no matches are scripted I do trust them... 99%

Next time 2:0 by 20th minute and I got a red car.

Wow. Now I want to start playing again.

Edle, you say you didn't change anything but then say you actually completely changed your central midfield with the signings of Bodde and Maduro. They're probably better players than your previous midfielders but they WILL take time to settle, particularly Bodde who I assume hasn't played in Spain before and doesn't speak the language.

As a few others have said the teamtalks and press conferences are very important in FM. If you get into a bad run of form they're the best way of breaking the run. I have to say though that being in 10th place doesn't really constitute "winning no games".

Also, the AI may not have "learned" but if will react to changes in your team reputation. Having signed two high profile players the AI will now most likely approach matches against you in a defensive mindset whereas they may previously have been more attacking. The hardest matches in FM are often against the sides who just "park the bus", particularly when your players are good but not so good that they can play through a wall of players. The clue for this is when you go into matches and the bookies make you big favourites for the match.

The only way to really know what's going wrong though is from the matches themselves (the Match Stats and Assistant Manager feedback are crucial). Are you having lots of possession but creating little? Try a more attacking mentality. Are you having lots of chances but the majority of them come from long shots? Use the "Work the ball into the box" shout and play with more width. Is the opposition having lots of possession and playing keep-ball in their own half? Push higher up and close down the opposition more. Etc.

Is it possible that it is all just bad luck? I don't know how to believe in that anymore. It's like the game decided that Sporting are supposed to go through and nothing I do can change that.

Im not sure many a time I have felt that the Football Managing Gods are against me. I think someone should test "luck" in the game by the same match over again without changing tactics and team talk and recording the results.

Im not sure many a time I have felt that the Football Managing Gods are against me. I think someone should test "luck" in the game by the same match over again without changing tactics and team talk and recording the results.

there is a thread on here somewhere where the OP played the same game over 30 times before getting a win. The game was Blackpool v Preston. Blackpool near the top and Preston near the bottom. He was testing to see if a relsult is pre determined before the match has even started.

The OP was Blackpool and after 30 games the results were something like this: 0 wins 9 draws 21 losses. The OP played exactly the same way for quite a few times but then tried to mix it up a bit. No matter what he did he just couldnt win. This was changing players, formation and team talks but still nothing.

He eventually won on something like the 35th game so its obviously not fixed so that blackpool would never win that game but it is funny how certain things seem to happen.

The same goes for cup draws. Ive read somewhere that when you press the button to start the draw, it is already predetermined. So if you went into the draw, saved and watched the draw you would get a team. If you quit and did the draw again it would be exactly the same. This shouldnt happen as far as im concerned but im sure its very hard to code a game so you cant really complain.

No you can't play CM, because they force monkeys to smoke cigarettes

BGS's ME was actually written by an infinite amount of monkeys behind typewriters iirc.

The AI isn't a single entity. The ME doesn't collaborate with the AI manager, and there are no phone calls between the transfer market AI and your ass man. Furthermore, the AI manager, unlike a human manager, does not get upset if it loses. It does triggers an "angry" team talk. It has no desire to win, it just wants to perform pre-set tactical changes during certain situations.

there is a thread on here somewhere where the OP played the same game over 30 times before getting a win. The game was Blackpool v Preston. Blackpool near the top and Preston near the bottom. He was testing to see if a relsult is pre determined before the match has even started.

The OP was Blackpool and after 30 games the results were something like this: 0 wins 9 draws 21 losses. The OP played exactly the same way for quite a few times but then tried to mix it up a bit. No matter what he did he just couldnt win. This was changing players, formation and team talks but still nothing.

He eventually won on something like the 35th game so its obviously not fixed so that blackpool would never win that game but it is funny how certain things seem to happen.

The same goes for cup draws. Ive read somewhere that when you press the button to start the draw, it is already predetermined. So if you went into the draw, saved and watched the draw you would get a team. If you quit and did the draw again it would be exactly the same. This shouldnt happen as far as im concerned but im sure its very hard to code a game so you cant really complain.

I remember that post too. I consider that pretty damning evidence for the OP's point. I don't think some games are rigged to ensure you can NEVER win them, but I do think some are weighted such that you are extremely unlikely to.

I've seen Paul C categorically deny this on numerous occasions so I think it's unlikely....

Look, still open!

There has always been games which are almost impossible to win. I don't think that any game is impossible but some games are just really stupid ones. In those games players' attributes have no meaning at all, you can dominate game how ever you like and if you score, opposition is gonna score from a chance they normally never could. This happens both for AI and humen and it's a fact has been in game for looong time. Guess this thing is a way for SI to make game more challenging, really frustrating thing but it does make the work.

Edle, you say you didn't change anything but then say you actually completely changed your central midfield with the signings of Bodde and Maduro. They're probably better players than your previous midfielders but they WILL take time to settle, particularly Bodde who I assume hasn't played in Spain before and doesn't speak the language.

As a few others have said the teamtalks and press conferences are very important in FM. If you get into a bad run of form they're the best way of breaking the run. I have to say though that being in 10th place doesn't really constitute "winning no games".

Also, the AI may not have "learned" but if will react to changes in your team reputation. Having signed two high profile players the AI will now most likely approach matches against you in a defensive mindset whereas they may previously have been more attacking. The hardest matches in FM are often against the sides who just "park the bus", particularly when your players are good but not so good that they can play through a wall of players. The clue for this is when you go into matches and the bookies make you big favourites for the match.

The only way to really know what's going wrong though is from the matches themselves (the Match Stats and Assistant Manager feedback are crucial). Are you having lots of possession but creating little? Try a more attacking mentality. Are you having lots of chances but the majority of them come from long shots? Use the "Work the ball into the box" shout and play with more width. Is the opposition having lots of possession and playing keep-ball in their own half? Push higher up and close down the opposition more. Etc.

i paid close attention to bookie odds and i was only ever slight favourites, with the majority of games being underdogs. while i appreciate your point about bodde and maduro needing to settle, my team actually lost form towards the end of the season after having a decent first 8 games. it went downhill from there. similarly i could apprecaite needing time to settle might affect their performance against higher clubs and we might be outplayed but i dont think that would be true when playing the team bottom of the league. i went on to lose that game 4-3! if they have not settled, and cannot help beat a club of that stature after a whole season i am confused at the whole issue.

i dont want to comment much on your last point because i cannot remember back through all my matches as to what is happening. i do not want to give you facts that are with tinted glasses on as i trying to keep my posts credible and to the point.

I've seen Paul C categorically deny this on numerous occasions so I think it's unlikely....

Is that the "I win" button, or the shooting of puppies?

As if he'd be so foolish as to deny the shooting of puppies...

Ive never felt like Ive been cheated by the comp on this version but I often feel very unlucky lots. FM 2009 did though.

Since so many people have success on this game, the likelihood of such a button is quite small.

I took 4 seasons to win my first Champions League with Man City. Probably a bit of a long time given their resources, but having gone out at the quarter final stage second season, then the semis, it was third time lucky. Won the league, lost in the FA cup final too.

Should probably take a bit longer using Hull or West Ham.

Yes there is

there is a thread on here somewhere where the OP played the same game over 30 times before getting a win. The game was Blackpool v Preston. Blackpool near the top and Preston near the bottom. He was testing to see if a relsult is pre determined before the match has even started.

The OP was Blackpool and after 30 games the results were something like this: 0 wins 9 draws 21 losses. The OP played exactly the same way for quite a few times but then tried to mix it up a bit. No matter what he did he just couldnt win. This was changing players, formation and team talks but still nothing.

He eventually won on something like the 35th game so its obviously not fixed so that blackpool would never win that game but it is funny how certain things seem to happen.

The same goes for cup draws. Ive read somewhere that when you press the button to start the draw, it is already predetermined. So if you went into the draw, saved and watched the draw you would get a team. If you quit and did the draw again it would be exactly the same. This shouldnt happen as far as im concerned but im sure its very hard to code a game so you cant really complain.

Yet other people had much more success in the same game.

He also didnt take into account the morale factors going into the game either so not really a good comparison.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks FM cheats from time to time. I do think there is some pre-decision in the game at times, but this may go the other way too..my Stanley side beat the much stronger Bradford 3-1 with utter ease...:S

If you dont like the game, don't play it!

How's your team morale, complacency and try different team-talks

What sort of sales plan would that be?!

Yeah, the SI marketing office 2 months before release:

Programmer: "OK, we've managed to achieve the perfect difficulty level for players! They won't find it too hard, but neither will they lose so often they get frustrated!"

Marketing Guy: "Hmmm... no, I think you should make it impossible to win, so people get seriously ****ed off at the game, and never buy it again!"

"and Pirlo, even though he wasn't under pressure or anything decides to pass the ball back to Dida. Some 75 meters pass backward!!! He doesn't pass straight to the keeper but somewhere in the direction of corner flag."

Haha, strange.... I just got dumped out of the Champions League by a similar cock up by my own player. Winning 3-1 away at Juve, going through on away goals. Juve defender bombs the ball forward, no danger,or so i thought.. My CB(one of the best on my game) runs up to it and for no reason attempts a 35yrd header back to my Keeper, which hits the bar, bounces out and Juve Striker runs up and puts it in. Shocking.

Another one of these threads

Im not sure many a time I have felt that the Football Managing Gods are against me. I think someone should test "luck" in the game by the same match over again without changing tactics and team talk and recording the results.

yeah, with arsenal, away to porto, the exact tactics from tactical thereoms and frameworks, repeated 10 times after seeing this, and the results were as follows:

Porto 2-0 Arsenal

Porto 2-1 Arsenal

Porto 2-3 Arsenal

Porto 4-0 Arsenal

Porto 5-1 Arsenal

Porto 1-0 Arsenal

Porto 4-1 Arsenal

Porto 2-2 Arsenal

Porto 3-1 Arsenal

Porto 1-2 Arsenal

you tell me that the game is fine?

now i dont think the AI cheats, i think its unbalanced with certain factors having too much or too little say respectively

They won 7 out of 10 times, drew once and lost twice.

That seems fairly consistant if the original tactic was not the best one to use going into the game.

If the AI had it in for you the best way to test it would be to play X games with one tactic, and the same number of games with a few more tactics....

If you lost consistantly to a team that wasnt much better than yours despite playing several different tactics then and only then would i call it the AI going out of its way to beat you.

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I play exclusively as Rangers and ive turned them into a team that year on year reaches the last 8 of the champions league and on a few occasions gets to the semi finals.

If the AI realy had it in for me then i wouldnt be able to beat the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, AC Milan etc... all teams who i have beaten either in the group stages or in the Qtr finals for the last 6 seasons of my current save.

As a semi "lower league" manager the only complaint i have with the game is that the league you play in dictates the players you can attract to the team and that by not being able to improve your leagues importance without editing/cheating the games difficulty is skewed against non EPL or Spanish/Italian managers.....

(and before someone starts, what i mean is that IF an SPL team, or another lower league teams started doing well in europe year on year then they would in real life get a bigger and better reputation, as it stands even if you win the CL with a non top teir team your reputation will always stop you from signing the best players in the world).

yeah, with arsenal, away to porto, the exact tactics from tactical thereoms and frameworks, repeated 10 times after seeing this, and the results were as follows:

Porto 2-0 Arsenal

Porto 2-1 Arsenal

Porto 2-3 Arsenal

Porto 4-0 Arsenal

Porto 5-1 Arsenal

Porto 1-0 Arsenal

Porto 4-1 Arsenal

Porto 2-2 Arsenal

Porto 3-1 Arsenal

Porto 1-2 Arsenal

you tell me that the game is fine?

now i dont think the AI cheats, i think its unbalanced with certain factors having too much or too little say respectively

You don't think an Arsenal team away to strong European opposition might not be favourites for the game, and lose more than 50% of the time. Frankly I think that in real life the ease with which English teams sometimes won in Europe was more down to the oppositions fear than any huge gulf in class (while the English team was usually better it was never by a huge amount).

i must reject the suggestions that we should lose such a percentage as an away team, i feel my team is up to the standard required, and the tactics have worked in the past

Why don't you upload your save game and see if people here have more luck with it?

i would very much like to see the results of the porto arsenal game expanded to include more tactics.

i must reject the suggestions that we should lose such a percentage as an away team, i feel my team is up to the standard required, and the tactics have worked in the past

actually if you honestly want the game to be "real" or "random" or whatever we want to call it - you have to allow for the possibility of the other team winning each time despite all your replays, because that is one of the possibilities in random. Another possibility is that it's 50/50. But for each given match, we want it to be a compilation of all the factors INCLUDING the random element. So to say that the result being the same all the time is "wrong" - is wrong.

Not busting on you as I understand the frustration, especially the way you lost some of the games, but then I remind myself that this feeling, both of joy or frustration, is a good one to have, one that most games don't produce - big part of why I love FM.

I do think there is an issue with players performing ridiculous backpasses. Its happened to me a few times and it almost always results in a goal.