Second Season Syndrome

Title reads for itself really.

On various saves in FM10, I have had a great first season, but then played the first half of the second season, usually with greatly improved squads, and done alot worse.

Some examples.

Wolfsburg:

Won the league in the first season, brought in 2 or 3 players, while selling 2 or 3 as well, basically straight swaps in the squad, and by January season 2, I was lounging down in 13th.

Utrecht:

Wasnt predicted very high, but managed to come 6th in the league and won the Dutch Cup.

Again, strengthened the squad, won the Dutch Super Cup, but was 16th by November and got sacked.

Rubin Kazan:

Won the league by a mile in the first season. Again strengthend the squad with 1 or 2 additions, and by the halfway mark, I was down in 7th.

Auxerre:

My most recent save. Predicted 10th season 1, but managed to come 4th. Brought in 1 or 2 players to replace the ones I sold, but both were better replacements. By December I was out of Europe to Ventspils, and 15th in the league.

Is there any explanation for my terrible performances in the second season or do I just get progressively get worse as a manager as the game goes on?

Or, does anyone else experience this?

Happened to me all the time on FM09 but ive only had one save on FM10. When a person makes alot of transfers both in and out then it takes time to gel, but from what you have said this is clearly not the case. I also had this problem in both FM08 and 07. I could say formation/tactics but from the first season then this again is not the case.

Its a real pet hate of mine too!

Not happened to me, almost every one of my seasons has been better than the previous.

Yep happened to me, I won the league with Twente in my first season and despite basically having the same squad I could only finish 10th in the second season. The interesting thing is that all my players had really low morale leading into the 2nd season when in fact the morale should have been high after winning the league. My job was saved only because I won the Cup. In my third season and am leading the comp again.

Changing tactics (if you imply the same tactics game after game) from year to year should help. If you have 3 solid tactics, try that rotation. Keeps the oppossing managers guessing for the first part of the year. I switch my tactics every 12 games and the first game with a new tactic is a struggle but trust me, 4 titles later it works

Could be the tactic thing, I only have 1 tactic for all games, and dont change, as it messes up thr rythym of my team, plus means I have to reshuffle the squad. Which is hard as I like to have 2 players for each position who can play there naturally, i.e. have a bright green light next to them when you put them on the pitch.

AI adapts to your tactics and every 6 months-a year you need to change it. AI has a collective mind, like Borg, so every opponent adapts, doesn't matter if they haven't played against you a single match. It happens with every team, doesn't matter if you're some 4th league team or Barcelona.

Most stupid feature of the Football manager, imho.

When a person makes alot of transfers both in and out then it takes time to gel,!

lies, all lies.. after promotion, i replaced 80% of my squad, and won L1 ( france ) by 16 points margin.. ( mostly with free sign players, there were few for money too obviously )

tho my third season with that team started as dissaster.. and i since then i didnt bother going back to it :X

AI adapts to your tactics and every 6 months-a year you need to change it. AI has a collective mind, like Borg, so every opponent adapts, doesn't matter if they haven't played against you a single match. It happens with every team, doesn't matter if you're some 4th league team or Barcelona.

Most stupid feature of the Football manager, imho.

it was said ai doesnt adapt.. or dissect your tactics.. i personally been using same one in every my save game.. for probably 5+ seasons now , make that 8+ with small variations

it was said ai doesnt adapt.. or dissect your tactics.. i personally been using same one in every my save game.. for probably 5+ seasons now , make that 8+ with small variations

Then how do you explain that with every single team after about 6 months I start performing poorly? Not poorly per se, but significantly worse than before. After I create a new tactic, It's okay for another 6 months or a year. After that it's the same thing all over again.

If it's not AI adapting, what is it? And don't give me that reputation ****. It happened with Barcelona and Real. You don't get higher reputation than that. Barca reputation certainly didn't sky-rocket because I had 14-3-1 mid-season. That's expected of Barcelona. My continental reputation wasn't a problem either since they're usually managed by world class managers.

i too have had a similar scenario to the original poster only over a slightly greater time period. for 5 seasons i used the same 442 formation and settings with literally no tweaks between seasons. this was enough to see me with a greater finish season after season until my 6th season.

having just acheived 5th in the league the year before i was confident i could gain promotion. especially having brought in ferrie bodde and hedwiges maduro into the spanish second division team! they are surely better than the previous midfielders. no doubt i will be told that my players need time to gel but they are the two signings only that i made! plus i dont think it can account for a slip from a 5th place finish to 11th at christmas. it is just overwhelming and slightly odd. i have tried tweaking the formation and playing 451 and nothing works and i get defeated by teams near the bottom of the league. i just dont understand at all.

Happening to me right now at Liverpool, won the Prem and Carling Cup 1st season now into 2nd season i have brought in 3 top players for 3 average players and the results just aren't coming and i'm really startin t get wound up just can't see whats wrong.....

And yet again an FM07/08/09 topic with exactly the same name pops up under a completely new author for the next FM game.

Do none of you guys bother using the search function for similar named topics, reading the Tactics and Training Tips forum, or employing common sense? What is the point in joining a discussion forum if you cannot be bothered to read what other people have written?

Depending how you perform compared to how you are expected to perform determines whether your reputation increases or decreases, which in turn determines how your own players view matches, how opponent players view matches, how much or little opponent managers will attack you in matches and so on. If you are expected to be relegated by the media and win the league then every other team on the planet will now employ more defensive tactics, their players will be more motivated to win games, your own players will think games are easier, and so on and so forth.

This was all discussed at immense length about 5 minutes ago on this very forum. Please do not consign all previous discussion on topics to the bowels of these forums because you cannot be bothered to look for them.

Use the search function. The game is easy when you do not explode onto these forums ignoring everything that was ever said before while whinging about how hard you are done by. If you shut up and employ a bit of patience and intelligence the whole damn thing will become crystal clear to you.

And yet again an FM07/08/09 topic with exactly the same name pops up under a completely new author for the next FM game.

Do none of you guys bother using the search function for similar named topics, reading the Tactics and Training Tips forum, or employing common sense? What is the point in joining a discussion forum if you cannot be bothered to read what other people have written?

Depending how you perform compared to how you are expected to perform determines whether your reputation increases or decreases, which in turn determines how your own players view matches, how opponent players view matches, how much or little opponent managers will attack you in matches and so on. If you are expected to be relegated by the media and win the league then every other team on the planet will now employ more defensive tactics, their players will be more motivated to win games, your own players will think games are easier, and so on and so forth.

This was all discussed at immense length about 5 minutes ago on this very forum. Please do not consign all previous discussion on topics to the bowels of these forums because you cannot be bothered to look for them.

Use the search function. The game is easy when you do not explode onto these forums ignoring everything that was ever said before while whinging about how hard you are done by. If you shut up and employ a bit of patience and intelligence the whole damn thing will become crystal clear to you.

You must be very moody today, What is wrong with people having a discussion here? oh yeah it's been talked about years before but just because you live your life on this forum and get sick of seeing this, doesn't mean you gotta start ripping people apart and telling them to shush up. You can just get off your soapbox now. In fact, if you feel like this is repetitive, don't reply to it at all, it will die itself. So freaking elitist

This has definitely happened to me, a number of times.

And yet again an FM07/08/09 topic with exactly the same name pops up under a completely new author for the next FM game.

Do none of you guys bother using the search function for similar named topics, reading the Tactics and Training Tips forum, or employing common sense? What is the point in joining a discussion forum if you cannot be bothered to read what other people have written?

Depending how you perform compared to how you are expected to perform determines whether your reputation increases or decreases, which in turn determines how your own players view matches, how opponent players view matches, how much or little opponent managers will attack you in matches and so on. If you are expected to be relegated by the media and win the league then every other team on the planet will now employ more defensive tactics, their players will be more motivated to win games, your own players will think games are easier, and so on and so forth.

This was all discussed at immense length about 5 minutes ago on this very forum. Please do not consign all previous discussion on topics to the bowels of these forums because you cannot be bothered to look for them.

Use the search function. The game is easy when you do not explode onto these forums ignoring everything that was ever said before while whinging about how hard you are done by. If you shut up and employ a bit of patience and intelligence the whole damn thing will become crystal clear to you.

I've read them. They usually consist of a 100 players complaining about this and a few who say it isn't true.

I'm still waiting to get an explanation for my Barca save if it is only about rep. Media prediction 1st, I'm 1st mid-season so where's the problem? No one expected Barca to be 1st in Primera so teams finally started taking them seriously???

I had a major case of second season syndrome in my one and only game so far. I did reasonably with Man Utd in the first season, winning the Champions League and finishing 4th despite having over 80 points. However, the start of my second season was dreadful and I sort of gave up before (I thought) being sacked. However, I blame myself for this as I had quite a bit of money to spend in the Summer and did not do so, and I should really have learned from not being particularly consistent in the first season and strengthened the squad.

AI adapts to your tactics and every 6 months-a year you need to change it. AI has a collective mind, like Borg, so every opponent adapts, doesn't matter if they haven't played against you a single match. It happens with every team, doesn't matter if you're some 4th league team or Barcelona.

Most stupid feature of the Football manager, imho.

Personally I dont buy into this, been using the exact same formation since start of my current save with Villa, 1st season finshed 9th, 2nd season 7th and am approaching the end of the 3rd season and looking most likely to finish 5th.

I had a major case of second season syndrome in my one and only game so far. I did reasonably with Man Utd in the first season, winning the Champions League and finishing 4th despite having over 80 points. However, the start of my second season was dreadful and I sort of gave up before (I thought) being sacked. However, I blame myself for this as I had quite a bit of money to spend in the Summer and did not do so, and I should really have learned from not being particularly consistent in the first season and strengthened the squad.

My time at Man U was exactly like that 4th, Champions League winners and sacked 2nd season lol

SFraser, you are an idiot.

There could be numerous different names for a thread about this topic, so just using the search function wouldn\'t be enough.

I dont look in every single thread in the forum, so how would I know if it was being discussed somewhere else. Having a general thread seems a good idea, maybe not to complain, but just to post what has happened to them, or even for people to give advice to me or other users who have had this problem.

How will employing patience help with my issue. I think having numerous saves in which this problem has occured is enough patience, so I have decided to create this thread to share my problem and hopefully get a constructive responce, not criticism from an imbosil such as yourself.

There are plenty of threads created every day, most of which are duplicates of a previous thread, but we dont complain about them, we just help them or redirect them to the thread.

So just have a little commonsense, and try to post something constructive.

Well lets see, FM is probably one of the most realistic simulators out there, correct? I do believe its the tactic thing as well as the fact that you bring people into the squad. Think about this, in real life managers are always viewing video tapes etc of their next matches in order to obtain enough knowledge as to see where the opposing team is weak, just like in FM. If you are able to adjust each BAR (Attacking, Width) etc, it makes it harder for the opposition team to identify your teams strengths and weaknesses, thus you have more of a chance to progress in your 1st,2nd,3rd,4th seasons. Sir AF is one of those types of people as he tends to adjust the BARS but not the formation itself. While your playing try and use touchline tactics therefore your team will start playing with a different set of instructions rather than what the AI has analysed. I know that people say that the AI does not adjust or adapt to the way you play, but I personally think that it uses other statistics its generated about you as a manager that lead to your defeats and such.

I also think that the gelling of the team in some cases will affect how your team plays. I mean there are always going to be those managers who can nearly lead success in their first seasons by building a new squad such as what Chelsea had done with Jose, but I mean the chances of that happening are going to be those who can take more of an understanding to the statistics and the abilities of the players that they WANT! I mean for a lot of people, just looking for those 16's and above for each player it gets difficult to really care. So I suggest bringing one or two players in and NONE but those who do not play regular football in your first season. As you start to play sub them in and out as they can get the feel of the way your team plays. If they still cannot gel or comprehend the language then sell. You're probably going to end up with a lower price but just understand that they'd be useless to your team anyways!

Cheers guys!

Could be the tactic thing, I only have 1 tactic for all games, and dont change, as it messes up thr rythym of my team, plus means I have to reshuffle the squad. Which is hard as I like to have 2 players for each position who can play there naturally, i.e. have a bright green light next to them when you put them on the pitch.

If you do well in your save, the AI will more often than before play defensively against your team because now your team has a higher reputation.

If you stick to your tactic and it always becomes less successful in the second year, that should be a strong hint that your tactic seems to work very well against a more attacking position while it doesn't work well against defensive opposition.

Thus, you should consider a slightly different approach when you notice that your success is waning.

The most common approach would be to play more possession-based football, i.e. slower and shorter and wider to create space against a defensive opponent whiole at the same time trying to make sure that you remain stable in defense.

hth

My time at Man U was exactly like that 4th, Champions League winners and sacked 2nd season lol

tbh considering your level of tactical sophistication and its theoretic substance (as far as visible and judgeable from this http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=4666162#post4666162), then your example might as well have nothing to do with any change caused by a change of reputation.

edit: Sorry, I just saw how old you are. Didn't mean to insult you with this.

The AI doesn't adapt to your tactics. I've used exactly the same tactics for 6 season and came 18th in the Championship then 5th, 15th in the Premiership then 3rd, 1st, 1st, 1st using 4-2-2-1-1. There was no second season syndrome. I have improved every single season. However there are dips in form. (For example in my first season I won my first 5 games, didn't win for the next 22, won the odd couple and won my last 5 games.) I found that I started and finished the season strongly but at around christmas with the fixture conjestions etc. i didn't play aswell.

The AI doesn't adapt to your tactics. I've used exactly the same tactics for 6 season and came 18th in the Championship then 5th, 15th in the Premiership then 3rd, 1st, 1st, 1st using 4-2-2-1-1. There was no second season syndrome. I have improved every single season. However there are dips in form. (For example in my first season I won my first 5 games, didn't win for the next 22, won the odd couple and won my last 5 games.) I found that I started and finished the season strongly but at around christmas with the fixture conjestions etc. i didn't play aswell.

The AI does not adapt to tactics, true. That is a common misconception.

But the AI DOES adapt to reputation, by applying more defensive tactics.

If you don't struggle as the OP does then congrats. Your tactic is better than his, as it also works well against defensive opposition.

But that does NOT mean that the AI change does not exist nor that is doesn't cause his problem. Trust me, the problem is right there in his tactic.

Please cut out the personal comments- not necessary or helpful

This makes sense I suppose. But the good thing about starting as a lower league club is that your reputation increases a lot slower than it should! I can't really comment because I've never experience this problem though.

This makes sense I suppose. But the good thing about starting as a lower league club is that your reputation increases a lot slower than it should! I can't really comment because I've never experience this problem though.

At times however the increase can be quite steep, especially if you win promotions on the way. Yet it's less noticable because in the new league you will always be an underdog at first. Only in the top league you will end up with a top reputation compared to the other teams in the division which will lead to defensive opposition.

But if you tactic doesn't struggle against this, then indeed you seem to have a very very good one