Attributes involved in Penalty Taking

I assume its more than just the Penalty Taking stat, so what others are involved?

Would I be right in thinking Penalty Taking, Finishing and Composure are all taking into account?

The reason I ask is because my staff are telling me that Shaun Maloney shouldn't be a penalty taker, but he has 15, 14, 14 respecively in those three stats, which isn't too shabby.

I think penalty taking is the primary stat. Technique might be another relevant one - higher stat means it'll hold up better in a pressure situation. Perhaps bravery as well? But that's perhaps going too far. Certainly as you say composure and finishing are relevant.

Penaltys are weird. They seem terribly random in pen shootouts... recently lost on pens after they made a last min equaliser then in pens Mark Noble and Diamanti - best pen takers on pitch(and with highest confidence/motivation) yet they both hit their penaltys straight down the middle and the keepers saved them easy . Yet the people with 9 pen taking can put it top corner, bottom corner you name it. Makes me wish i had my goalie and CB take it instead with a rating of 6!

I always go for penalties, composure, finishing, in that order. Is there a hidden attribute of 'ability to handle pressure'? Perhaps it could be something like that the staff are picking up on.

Penaltys are weird. They seem terribly random in pen shootouts... recently lost on pens after they made a last min equaliser then in pens Mark Noble and Diamanti - best pen takers on pitch(and with highest confidence/motivation) yet they both hit their penaltys straight down the middle and the keepers saved them easy . Yet the people with 9 pen taking can put it top corner, bottom corner you name it. Makes me wish i had my goalie and CB take it instead with a rating of 6!

Pentalties are a very weird thing. Think back to RL shootouts with phenomenal penalty takers just completely messing it up : Stuart Pearce in 90; Baggio in 94; Lineker vs Brazil in 92(?) and I'm sure once my brain works better I'll come up with some other examples. It really is a lottery.

There are hidden stats, pressure being one of them, that may be factored in somehow. Also, the old hints and tips guide used to say that players that are captain material (influence, deternination etc) are more likely not to fold under the pressure.

As far as visible stats go, I usually sort by the penalty attribute, then prioritise anyone who has good technique and featured on my potential captain list.

Maybe decision also...

I've always wondered this, do the other attributes actually matter? Same for corners. Do the crossing and technique attributes for example matter if the corner taking attribute is high? If so, what does the corner attribute even mean then because I've seen players good at taking corners but poor at crossing. How does that work out then? How can you be rated as one of the best corner takers in the world if your crossing is poor and is taken into account?

At a guess, it might be to do with his ability to hit a moving ball rather than a dead one.

I've always wondered this, do the other attributes actually matter? Same for corners. Do the crossing and technique attributes for example matter if the corner taking attribute is high? If so, what does the corner attribute even mean then because I've seen players good at taking corners but poor at crossing. How does that work out then? How can you be rated as one of the best corner takers in the world if your crossing is poor and is taken into account?

Actually, things like the penalty attribute is one of the things that make me chortle about the game.

In FM7, I had a Millwall game going on and I had someone with a penalty attribute of 20. He was the most fantastically useless penalty taker it has ever been my misfortune to assign that particular duty to. Presumably, this was because various other relevant attributes were poor.

Now, if other attributes are taken into account to the extent that, whatever the penalty attribute may be, a player is rendered useless at penalties, what in the seven circles of Hades is the point of a penalty attribute?

Perhaps that bloke was a one-off.

I always look for the best Penatly taking and Composure attributes.

The penalty attribute by itself indicates what he can do on the training ground. In live game he needs composure too. Depending on the fixture, big games would be relevant, as someone said.

I've always wondered this, do the other attributes actually matter? Same for corners. Do the crossing and technique attributes for example matter if the corner taking attribute is high? If so, what does the corner attribute even mean then because I've seen players good at taking corners but poor at crossing. How does that work out then? How can you be rated as one of the best corner takers in the world if your crossing is poor and is taken into account?

Could be that corners are dead ball and crossing is probably on the run so different skills involved?

Could be that corners are dead ball and crossing is probably on the run so different skills involved?

Yeah, I understand you can be good at dead ball situations and not so good at hitting a moving ball but what I was thinking was more along the lines of PJW_JJJ's post. Say you have two players, one with Corner taking 18, Crossing 10, Technique 10 and another with Corner Taking 18, Crossing 20, Technique 20. Is the latter going to be better at taking corners? If so, what is the point of the Corner taking attribute and what does it actually do if there is a huge difference between players rated the same at taking corners? Like the penalty taking example above, how can you be rated as the best penalty taker there is and yet you are useless at them because of some other attributes? If your technique is poor or whatever else is needed for taking penalties, then surely you can't be rated that highly as a penalty taker in the first place.

i always go by the penalty stat and then sort the players by composure.

I just pick my favorite player on the team. Penalties are how a lot of players get their first ever goals for my club.

They hardly miss anyways.

I always go for penalties, composure, finishing, in that order. Is there a hidden attribute of 'ability to handle pressure'? Perhaps it could be something like that the staff are picking up on.

Yes there is, simply called pressure. Does have an effect in matches (check the motivation screens for 'playing nervously') so I'd imagine it could have effect on penalties, as it effects their overall performance.

Outside of matches look out for young players 'struggling to handle the pressure of first team football (or does it say public expectation? can't remember). I think there are also messages when players can't handle the pressure of transfer speculation.

Pentalties are a very weird thing. Think back to RL shootouts with phenomenal penalty takers just completely messing it up : Stuart Pearce in 90; Baggio in 94; Lineker vs Brazil in 92(?) and I'm sure once my brain works better I'll come up with some other examples. It really is a lottery.

I know but the fact that its always a miss because he's shot down the middle... and worse the goalie predicts its going in the middle, i'd rather it was a poor shot to the right, and the keeper saved it... or maybe if he went in the middle... the goalie dives to the side? A la Frank Lampard hard shot down the middle... or maybe the player would scuff it and accidentally fool the keeper? There needs to be more added to the mix in terms of penaltys...

make it more random and interesting like real life!

Just penalty taking IMO. Decisions and composure is an open play stat for me and I would say so is Technique. People talk about ability to handle pressure - is that an in match attribute or not?

Dont try and complicate something. Best penalty taker attribute from 20 and down. period.

i never actually thought of looking at other attribute. i always jsut paid attention to penalty taking abilities. i suppose composure as well as some hidden stats like big games, and pressure would be good to have as well.

Yeah, I understand you can be good at dead ball situations and not so good at hitting a moving ball but what I was thinking was more along the lines of PJW_JJJ's post. Say you have two players, one with Corner taking 18, Crossing 10, Technique 10 and another with Corner Taking 18, Crossing 20, Technique 20. Is the latter going to be better at taking corners? If so, what is the point of the Corner taking attribute and what does it actually do if there is a huge difference between players rated the same at taking corners? Like the penalty taking example above, how can you be rated as the best penalty taker there is and yet you are useless at them because of some other attributes? If your technique is poor or whatever else is needed for taking penalties, then surely you can't be rated that highly as a penalty taker in the first place.

It is the same as finishing or long shots or passing. These attributes only determine the accuracy of an executed move, they do not determine what kind of moves a player can attempt or how good a connection the player makes with the ball.

If you take someone like Manchester United's Anderson as an example, he has finishing of 4 and longshots of 3 so if he is presented with a good chance where Finishing or Longshots is the dominant attribute in the action he is very likely to miss the goal quite badly. However Anderson has a Technique of 17, First Touch of 16, Composure of 14. This means he is an exceptionally good striker of the ball and is capable of carrying out highly technical moves with a high degree of control. Therefore if Anderson attempts shots that have a high degree of technical difficulty to them such as wickedly swerving longshots, volleys or chips he will not only connect well but apply an immense degree of control to the shot and get far closer to the goal than with a shot relying purely on his finishing or longshot accuracy.

You can see literally see the effect of the various attributes ingame in certain types of longshots. The longshot attribute itself is most obvious when a player is presented with a clear sight on goal from 20 to 25 yards out. These are hard struck shots with minimal technical component aimed directly at some part of the goal. Players with high longshots will get these on target, players with low longshots will miss these. The technique and composure attributes are most obvious when there is no clear sight on goal and the player is attempting to swerve the ball into a corner of the goal. Composure and Technique will determine the crispness of the connection and the Technique attribute will determine the quality of execution, allowing players with high composure and high technique and low longshots to overcome their deficiency in shooting accuracy with a wickedly curving thunderbolt that 9 times out of 10 gets incredibly close to the goal.

Low Composure is a particular bane of shooting and the execution of moves in general. Otherwise excellent looking midfielders or forwards with low composure will slice shots, misdirect first time passes or just plain punt the ball aimlessly. Players with high Composure can make up for a significant quantity of apparent deficiencies by remaining calm under pressure to make full use of their abilities. A player with high Composure and high Technique can make up for a low passing accuracy by having the ability to execute any pass type and the coolness under pressure to execute the pass type well and make the best choice of target for their game reading abilities.

Take Carrick and Scholes for example. Carrick has Anticipation 17 compared to Scholes at 15, meaning Carrick can play better timed passes to runners. Scholes however can overcome this minor deficiency in the timing of throughballs he has compared to Carrick by executing tougher passes more accurately into more dangerous areas under greater pressure. Carrick may have to use his additional anticipation and timing of passes to defeat a fullback and play a winger or forward through on goal, Scholes however can simply swerve the ball over or around the defending player, usually with a level of execution that encourages the defender to attempt to intercept and usually miss, taking himself out of the game for the next few moves.

i think the penalty taking attribute takes over from the finishing one when its a dead ball from 12 yards. Composure, decision making, technique would be the main ones that I'd relate to penalty taking. You got to make a decision and stick with it, change it at the last second and you usually mess up. Relishing big matches/occasions should be another factor in the ME.

I've played about twenty seasons of FM09 and about ten of FM10. I can recall winning one shootout. I must have lost at least 15.

My penalty takers seem to convert ~90% of the time. My GKs never seem to save penalties.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but this is one of my least favorite parts of the game.

If you have a penalty taker with stat 20 who missed five in a row - can they still have a stat of 20 as clearly they aren't very good. How can you have a high rating if you are not good at it for other reasons.

If you have a penalty taker with stat 20 who missed five in a row - can they still have a stat of 20 as clearly they aren't very good. How can you have a high rating if you are not good at it for other reasons.

Palermo??

Is he a nominated taker or did he just step up himself?

I assume its more than just the Penalty Taking stat, so what others are involved?

Would I be right in thinking Penalty Taking, Finishing and Composure are all taking into account?

The reason I ask is because my staff are telling me that Shaun Maloney shouldn't be a penalty taker, but he has 15, 14, 14 respecively in those three stats, which isn't too shabby.

i have no clue.

ronaldo has Penalty Taking 20, Finishing 19, Technique 18, Decisions 18 and Composure 18

but my ass man says he shouldn't be taking penalties

:confused:

SFraser [if you take someone like Manchester United's Anderson as an example, he has finishing of 4 and longshots of 3 so if he is presented with a good chance where Finishing or Longshots is the dominant attribute in the action he is very likely to miss the goal quite badly. However Anderson has a Technique of 17, First Touch of 16, Composure of 14. This means he is an exceptionally good striker of the ball and is capable of carrying out highly technical moves with a high degree of control. Therefore if Anderson attempts shots that have a high degree of technical difficulty to them such as wickedly swerving longshots, volleys or chips he will not only connect well but apply an immense degree of control to the shot and get far closer to the goal than with a shot relying purely on his finishing or longshot accuracy.

...and so on.

You sound like you know for definite this is how the calculations work, though I suppose it's how we ALL assume it to be.

I see what you're saying about the rationale of "why tell me someone is 20 out of 20 in pentalties when they are the worst penalty taker in my squad" can apply to pretty much every stat. But what were they thinking in designing the attributes like that?

At the SI meeting did they say, "I know, lets present attributes to the buyer that are as good as meaningless by themselves and leave it to the peasants to work out which other attributes in which combintations in which weightings combined with morale, weather, chance events and team talk effects (which we'll wildly overcook for a giggle) actually reflects the attribute concerned! That'll REALLY annoy 'em!"

And compared to real life; a manager asks the youth coach about the passing ability of a supposedly promising midfielder: "Fantasic passer!" enthuses the academy manager. "20 out of 20! Off course, he's never actually completed a pass, short, long, meduim, difficult, easy, nothing! Absolutely shocking, a complete waste of time! But, hey...he's a 20 out of 20 passer!"

P45 time.

i have no clue.

ronaldo has Penalty Taking 20, Finishing 19, Technique 18, Decisions 18 and Composure 18

but my ass man says he shouldn't be taking penalties

:confused:

I'd be considering sacking your assistant, seriously! :confused:

A good penalty taker has:

Penalty Taking > 16 (good chance to score)

Composure > 18 (calm in taking the shot)

Important Matches > 18 (brings the best in him under pressure)

Determination > 15 (critical moment performance)

For the keeper to be a good penalty-saving one it is:

One-on-ones > 18

Reflexes > 18

Agility > 18

Jumping > 18

Important Matches > 19

Composure > 18

i have no clue.

ronaldo has Penalty Taking 20, Finishing 19, Technique 18, Decisions 18 and Composure 18

but my ass man says he shouldn't be taking penalties

:confused:

Sometimes the AssMan AI is just crap, too. That's the most likely option here imho

...and so on.

You sound like you know for definite this is how the calculations work, though I suppose it's how we ALL assume it to be.

I'm sure he actually does know to some extent.

This may have to do with personality or morale