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The Closest of Finishes!!!


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I recently finished my second season with Manchester City and although I finished a very respectable 5th place, I can't help by feel disappointed.

The reason for my disappointment is how close I was to finishing 4th and qualifying for the Champions League. I actually finished level on points with Liverpool, with an identical won, drawn, lost record and amazingly an identical goals for and goals against record.

I checked the two league results between the teams and both games resulted in 1-1 draws!

Having checked all the above information, I can only conclude that I finished 5th based on alphabetical order!!!! How annoying is that?!? Missing out on millions of pounds of worth of Champions League TV Revenue because of alphabetical order?!?!

Has anyone else experienced this?

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I recently finished my second season with Manchester City and although I finished a very respectable 5th place, I can't help by feel disappointed.

The reason for my disappointment is how close I was to finishing 4th and qualifying for the Champions League. I actually finished level on points with Liverpool, with an identical won, drawn, lost record and amazingly an identical goals for and goals against record.

I checked the two league results between the teams and both games resulted in 1-1 draws!

Having checked all the above information, I can only conclude that I finished 5th based on alphabetical order!!!! How annoying is that?!? Missing out on millions of pounds of worth of Champions League TV Revenue because of alphabetical order?!?!

Has anyone else experienced this?

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"If points are equal, the goal difference and then goals scored determine the positions. If still equal, teams are deemed to occupy the same position. If there is a tie for the championship, for relegation, or for qualification to other competitions, a play-off match at a neutral venue decides rank."

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Thank you for your quick response.

No play off game took place! I was half expecting a play off game to be arranged, but when that didn't happen, I concluded that it ranked the teams on alphabetical order!

The only other logical explanation I could come up with was that the teams were ranked according to the order of the co-efficients. Could this be a possible explanation?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SWaRFeGa:

"If points are equal, the goal difference and then goals scored determine the positions. If still equal, teams are deemed to occupy the same position. If there is a tie for the championship, for relegation, or for qualification to other competitions, a play-off match at a neutral venue decides rank." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm guessing that doesn't happen in FM then?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SWaRFeGa:

"If points are equal, the goal difference and then goals scored determine the positions. If still equal, teams are deemed to occupy the same position. If there is a tie for the championship, for relegation, or for qualification to other competitions, a play-off match at a neutral venue decides rank." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm guessing that doesn't happen in FM then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen two threads on this subject in my time on the forums, and both were decided with this play-off system.

I think we'd need to have a look at this league table for clarification.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm guessing that doesn't happen in FM then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty certain that it does happen in FM. There was a thread just this week on something like this just this week where there was a playoff for 17th spot and safety...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SWaRFeGa:

Need clarification on the league table, and who won the Champions League. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll see what I can do! I'll check who won the Champions League and save a couple of screenshots when I get in from work a little later on!

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chrisrhys:

The only other logical explanation I could come up with was that the teams were ranked according to the order of the co-efficients. Could this be a possible explanation? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In FM the rules for sorting the group stages of the UEFA Cup list the co-efficients(not sure if it's the same irl but I imagine it is if it's in the game), so maybe FM uses this for domestic leagues too.

That is presuming you are telling the truth as we are yet to see a screenshot icon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dar2000:

In FM the rules for sorting the group stages of the UEFA Cup list the co-efficients(not sure if it's the same irl but I imagine it is if it's in the game), so maybe FM uses this for domestic leagues too.

That is presuming you are telling the truth as we are yet to see a screenshot icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes! I'm telling the truth...honest!

I'm at work at the moment and the game is question is on my personal computer at home!

Unfortunately, I won't get in until 6pm, so you'll just have to sit tight for a little while longer! icon_frown.gif

I posted the topic this morning to see if anybody had experienced the same.....I didn't realised I'd get quite the level of response that I have had!!! icon_smile.gif

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From original post:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chrisrhys:

I checked the two league results between the teams and both games resulted in 1-1 draws!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by villa30:

what was the results in your games against liverpool, if you had lost against them then this would count towards then being awarded 4th place </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He said they were both 1-1.

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it wont be decided on alphabetical order, there mus be somethnig seperating you or else there would have been a playoff, iv eseeb them and seen screen shots of them. if liverpool won the champions league there would be no need to settle it as you wouldnt have qualified if you were fourth and them fifth.

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The closest finish I witnessed on my own skin was in 06 when I was Wigan and we were struggling to survive in the Premiership but we did thanks to a 92nd minute goal by Oscar Cardozo, after Taylor (I reckon) centered the ball from the center of the pitch into the 16 meter box where Cardozo powered a header home to save us from relegetionicon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chrisrhys:

I've finally been able to save a screenshot of the final league table, but I am unsure as to how to upload it....can anybody kindly assist me? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To post a screenshot:

1. Open what you want to print and then press the "print screen" button on your keyboard (usually 3rd from top right).

2. Open Paint and paste there. Save.

3. Upload the picture to a image-hosting website like www.photobucket.com or www.imageshack.com

4. Provide the link here.

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Sadly, i've since started the following season and therefore I don't think I can check the disciplinary records now! icon_frown.gif

It's still absolutely gutting to know that I could've missed out on the Champions League due to more yellow cards!!!

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Not to ask a dumb question, but, Chrisrhys, have you verified that Liverpool actually are playing Champions League footy the third season?

There would be no need for a playoff, according to the EPL rules, if there were no impact on qualification for other competitions. If England has lost a spot, which I've seen happen, maybe you're both in the UEFA Cup and the game just let it go at that?

Here's a thread, including screenshot, which shows that the game does do a playoff if necessary: in the case linked to, the 39th game was played between the tied-for-5th-place teams.

Premiership 39th game?!?!? Play-off

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Don't worry Amaroq, it's a perfectly legitimate question.

The answer is yes, they are playing in the Champions League. They have just beaten Young Boys 6-0 on aggregate to qualify for the Group phase, whereas I have got to play Saturn from Russia to qualify for the UEFA cup group phase!

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Yes, I sure as hell feel robbed too!!!

If nothing else it has given me extra motivation to finish in the Champions League qualification places this season. I'm also determined to make doubly sure that I give Liverpool a beating!!!

I'd love to have the chance before the Liverpool game to tell the players during the teamtalk "Seek revenge for the thieving gits stealing the Champions League spot last season!!!"

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Are you absolutely 100% sure that both matches ended 1-1 between you last season and that you didn't accidentally look at a cup match or pick up the result just above or below the Liverpool one? Not trying to suggest you are stupid, obviously, I have done plenty of stupid things like that and been absolutely sure of something only to look back again later and sheepishly realise I looked at the wrong result!

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I'm pretty sure, but I don't have the saved game with me to make doubly sure.

I remember them knocked me out of the FA Cup at the 3rd round stage 3-2.....with a goal from Torres in the second minute of stoppage time! So it would appear that Liverpool have become my bogey team!!!

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In my last season, me(Arsenal), Chelsea and Man Utd finished the season with 81 points. I finished 3rd on goal difference, throwing it awa by drawing 2-2 at home with Blackburn after being 2-0 up on final day. Biggest bottle of my career and closest finish

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I DEFINATELY feel robbed after reading this article, taken from the Official Premier League Handbook:

"22. If any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points their position in the table shall be determined on goal difference, that is to say, the difference between the total number of goals scored by and against a Club in League Matches in that Season, and the higher or highest placed Club shall be the Club with the higher or highest goal difference.

23. If any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points and have the same goal difference the higher or highest placed Club shall be the Club having scored the most goals in League Matches in that Season.

24. Subject to Rule B.31, if any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points, have the same goal difference and have scored the same number of goals in League Matches in that Season they shall be deemed to occupy the same position in the table."

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dar2000:

Can you post a screen shot of the league table? I dont believe you icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry for doubting you chrisrhys icon_biggrin.gif!

I would guess that the co-efficients came into effect, but would be nice to hear what SI think about it.

I know there has been cases of a '39th game' in previous versions but has anyone seen one in FM08?

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