So, attributes don't mean a single thing.

I am sure I can't be the only one who has come to the very quick conclusion that 'attributes' don't mean a single thing when it comes to the game engine processing the result of the match.

Take English Division 11 for example (where I play) most of the players in all the teams struggle to have players with technical abilities that are greater than 1. Yet you still see them completing 16 out of 20 passes in all games under all tactics and scenarios, having a sot rate of 80%, dribbling around like Pele etc etc. Simply totally unrealistic for players who have such incredibly low attributes.

I would expect to see players of such ability fall over the ball rather than run with it. Pass it into the stands instead of to another player etc. 1 from 20 = 5%. Period. But according to the game engine, IMO an attribute of 1 seems to equal at least 10.

Either SI needs to be more realistic with the attributes, i.e maybe all players start from at least 10 out of 20, but can have decimal points or whatever. But as it stands atm having 1's and performing like Messi just makes the game (and SI) look like a laughing stock.

I kind of agree - but there are many times when the match engine gets the real life players ability pretty spot on. Even so in the future it would be nice to see a complete match engine rebuild which is more responsive to the player stats

i think its all relative

a player who only has 2 for passing might complete 15/20 passes cause everyone else on the pitch has 1 for positioning and therefore cant intercept the ball. throw that same playerinto a top division and his completion rate will drop when he comes up against decent players

You must be playing a totally different game to me. I'm also managing in a diddy tier - 10 in my case where the amateur players have mostly 1s for technical attributes. Before when I managed in the EPL every team seemed to pass like Spain but here nobody can put two passes together - it's just chaos from the first minute to the last. The comedy defenders are marginally better than the comedy forwards with the effect that most games average only one goal.

i think its all relative

a player who only has 2 for passing might complete 15/20 passes cause everyone else on the pitch has 1 for positioning and therefore cant intercept the ball. throw that same playerinto a top division and his completion rate will drop when he comes up against decent players

Doesn't explain players on 1 shooting as if they are Torres though does it. If shooting is 1, he should only be getting 1 shot out of 20 on target. But that just isn't the case.

You must be playing a totally different game to me. I'm also managing in a diddy tier - 10 in my case where the amateur players have mostly 1s for technical attributes. Before when I managed in the EPL every team seemed to pass like Spain but here nobody can put two passes together - it's just chaos from the first minute to the last. The comedy defenders are marginally better than the comedy forwards with the effect that most games average only one goal.

Currently 2.5 goals per game in my 11th div. Which I would say is a v good average.

How boring would your game be if that was the case? 1 in 20 passes makes it to the other guy? 1 in 20 shots on target? you wouldn't get anywhere!

Doesn't explain players on 1 shooting as if they are Torres though does it. If shooting is 1, he should only be getting 1 shot out of 20 on target. But that just isn't the case.

If you assume the stats are absolute, that's correct.

I don't think all of them are, from memory of previous discussions.

Doesn't explain players on 1 shooting as if they are Torres though does it. If shooting is 1, he should only be getting 1 shot out of 20 on target. But that just isn't the case.

Not really, if so then I would say no one in the game deserves a finishing of 15+ if you are working on that basis. I very much doubt you that even the best strikers have a shots on target ratio of 75% or better...

Doesn't explain players on 1 shooting as if they are Torres though does it. If shooting is 1, he should only be getting 1 shot out of 20 on target. But that just isn't the case.

this has never been my understanding.

does this mean a player with 20 shooting never misses a shot?

or a player with 20 freekicks always hitting the target?

or that a player with 1 jumping only jumps 5% of the time. the rest of the time he tries and just falls over?

1 shooting vs 1 reflexes is like torres shooting vs reina reflexes

this has never been my understanding.

does this mean a player with 20 shooting never misses a shot?

or a player with 20 freekicks always hitting the target?

or that a player with 1 jumping only jumps 5% of the time. the rest of the time he tries and just falls over?

1 shooting vs 1 reflexes is like torres shooting vs reina reflexes

From prev experience of playing for 4-5 years on CM4, many hours per day. Shooting of 20 gives around 90ish % sot.

And as for free kicks it depends where the free kick is located. If it is centrally lined up, just outside the pen area, then a guy on 20 would virtually always have the shot going goalbound or only just off target, though that is not to say that it won't inevitably get saved by the keeper.

I won't even go into jumping (by far the biggest stats nitpickof any version of CM/FM) since in real life virtually everyone has more or less the same jumping ability unless they are either a midget or a peter crouch, and even then it is prone to discussion since a small guy has invariably less weight and can jump off the floor easier than someone heavier. (A large guy at my school couldn't even get off the ground, no kidding)

To the OP

I dont think thats how the attributes work IMO.

I think its down to probablity..For instance someone with 20 of finishing would have maybe a 8.5 in 10 chance of getting the shot on target.

And maybe a person with passing of 20 would almost certainly play a perfect pass maybe 9 out of 10 times, ( or maybe even a lower percentage than that)

But this is under very basic circumstances

This is not combining the strikers composure which may bring down the strikers finishing if he is under pressure.

The same goes for passing which may only have a 85% chance of being perfect for a person with 20 passing if condition of player is 100% ( as condition goes down so does chance of pass being perfect)

There are also so many other variables to think about aswell

This is my opinion of the ME

I won't even go into jumping (by far the biggest stats nitpickof any version of CM/FM) since in real life virtually everyone has more or less the same jumping ability unless they are either a midget or a peter crouch, and even then it is prone to discussion since a small guy has invariably less weight and can jump off the floor easier than someone heavier. (A large guy at my school couldn't even get off the ground, no kidding)

I think this only underlines Crichton's point that it's all relative. A player with 20 in jumping is 'only' about 2 feet taller than a bloke with 1 in jumping, he's not 20 times taller. The game only needs to work out that when two players with 12 and 10 jumping respectively head for the ball together, the one with 12 is more likely to win. I think it's worth remembering that this is all on a world scale; should your team face Barca, then there would be a good chance they wouldn't be able to complete more than 5% of all passes. But when facing an opponent of equal quality, I don't think there's any reason to assume that pass completion/conversion rates etc. wouldn't be on the same level as in the Prem. After all, the relative quality of your tier 11 striker facing an opposing tier 11 quality goalie is pretty much the same as Rooney going one on one with Pepe Reina.

It is all relative to other teams/players. Just because someone has a tech stat 1, doesn't mean he can't control and pass. IRL i play state league soccer which is 1 level below A-league. I would assume if someone was to scout me I would have about 3 for most of my stats, doesn't mean i'm a ****** who cannot pass a ball effectively 65-75% of the time... I would imagine as i play DM i'd have about 75% completion rate on passes. I'm sure this would be different with EPL players bombing at me though. My point being low stats dos not equal retardation and most lower league games will display similar stats to higher level games, only difference is the players are not interchangeable between leagues

I have never managed at a such low level (unless a single "tryout" game as Vanuatu counts), but I think it's indeed a matter of relativity.

My weekly kickabouts hold a level close to tier 11 (but probably even lower ), and we're NOT stumbling over the ball or kicking the air instead of the ball every other minute.

Sure, mistakes will be made, the technical level will be low, the tactical side almost non-existent etc... I'm sure most of you have played football since kindergarden age, so I don't really need to explain you how it works.

Then, a tier 11 striker, who's awful (if compared to a tier 7, who is himself awful compared to Rooney), is playing among his "peers", thus producing a relatively watchable match.

What in reality and in the ME looks like a "perfect tackle" or a good pass or a great shot, is relatively good because BOTH TEAMS are equally "bad", thus equally "good".

Playing a friendly against a team far above in the pyramid will expose and show the difference between "tier 11 good" and "tier 2 good"

It is all relative to other teams/players. Just because someone has a tech stat 1, doesn't mean he can't control and pass. IRL i play state league soccer which is 1 level below A-league. I would assume if someone was to scout me I would have about 3 for most of my stats, doesn't mean i'm a ****** who cannot pass a ball effectively 65-75% of the time... I would imagine as i play DM i'd have about 75% completion rate on passes. I'm sure this would be different with EPL players bombing at me though. My point being low stats dos not equal retardation and most lower league games will display similar stats to higher level games, only difference is the players are not interchangeable between leagues

I have never managed at a such low level (unless a single "tryout" game as Vanuatu counts), but I think it's indeed a matter of relativity.

My weekly kickabouts hold a level close to tier 11 (but probably even lower ), and we're NOT stumbling over the ball or kicking the air instead of the ball every other minute.

Sure, mistakes will be made, the technical level will be low, the tactical side almost non-existent etc... I'm sure most of you have played football since kindergarden age, so I don't really need to explain you how it works.

Then, a tier 11 striker, who's awful (if compared to a tier 7, who is himself awful compared to Rooney), is playing among his "peers", thus producing a relatively watchable match.

What in reality and in the ME looks like a "perfect tackle" or a good pass or a great shot, is relatively good because BOTH TEAMS are equally "bad", thus equally "good".

Playing a friendly against a team far above in the pyramid will expose and show the difference between "tier 11 good" and "tier 2 good"

These two points sum it up for me.

Quite how the OP imagines the attributes to work amazes me somewhat.

Doesn't explain players on 1 shooting as if they are Torres though does it. If shooting is 1, he should only be getting 1 shot out of 20 on target. But that just isn't the case.

Its not a 0-20 interval scale! A player with 20 speed is not going to run 100 metres in half the time of a player with 10, nor a twentieth the time of a player with 1.

If I was playing non league football in reality, I'd obviously have all ones for attributes, but I'd still hope to get more than one pass in twenty to a teammate 10 yards away.

PS whenever I've seen lower league football, there's been more long shot goals, because nobody closes down, and goalies are awful.

Passing is easier at lower levels because you have more time and space. Do you seriously think that real life lower league games consist of 19 misplaced passes out of every 20 and players missing the target almost every time from five yards?

Has the OP ever actually played a game of football?

I had a friend who would score hundreds of goals in our local league here in Australia. He had such a rocket of a shot, he could shoot from half way and bury it. I am not kidding, he would basically win us the league on his own because he could shoot from 50-60 yards out and score.

He went on to play for Marconi and barely got a game at a youth level.

He looked like Maradona, Pele and Torres all combined into one at our local leagues club, but at Marconi, his shooting was just normal compared to everyone else and I am sure if he played in the NSL it would have been even worse, and imagining him in the EPL would be laughable, his shots would probably never trouble any goalie.

I honestly think you mis-interpret what stats mean and how they work, especially how it is all relative to real life football.

If the passes he is making are simple then he will complete them, its when he has to play a perfectly waited through ball that the attributes come to fruition.

i dont know what my opinion is on this. on one hand it should be that less passes should be completed but on the other hand there are a few things that need to be remembered.

1) if a player has a low passing stat he might try to keep all his passes simple. this is more likely to give better results and stats.

2) if he is a low division he will be playing against people of equal talent. so hes going to have more time on the ball to make the pass.

the ultimate test would be to put a rubbish player into the top league in the editor and see what his stats end up.

Most of you guys have the measure; the OP's assumptions are unbelievably simplistic. Just to add one insight - to the 20 technical attribute has to be factored in the mental and physical attributes. Eg 20 finishing is not that great is he is poor in balance, agility, composure, decisions etc.

I believe the OP wants to see 2 shots on target per match, etc, is that right?

I don't know if you happen to play football yourself, but I used to, and believe me, my team wasn't that good but when we got open chances, shockingly, we actually managed to score at times!

So it's not like amateur players in lower tiers can't score goals if the opposition is just as bad they are.