What is your opinion on closing down and team mentalities?

After my recent sacking from West Ham, where I managed to get them relegated (), my brother and my dad began to discuss what we are doing wrong with our tactics.

My brother can't win a game, regardless who he manages. My father is actually quite a good manager, and surprisingly just uses default tactics.

I am only successful with low end clubs in obsure leagues, but I have done poorly at West Ham.

While I do not want this to be a "tactical" discussion, I am curious to see what the "General" player does with closing down and with player mentality across the park.

1. What team do you play with?

2. Do you use classic or new tactics creator and what formation do you play?.

3. Do you play Rigid? Balanced or Fluid?

4. Do you play defensive or attacking?

5. Do you use a high defensive line or a deep defensive line.

6. What kind of closing down do you use?

A lot of people seem to struggle at FM and a lot say it is extreemly easy and from the general chat I had today with my mates and family, it seems that the closing down and mentalities of our players seem to be causing the most grief or the biggest tactical misunderstandings.

1. I played with West Ham in the EPL, finished 3rd from bottom. Relegated and Sacked.

2. I used the tactics creator and tweak my tactics a little for players, play a 4-4-2.

3. I play Rigid with low creative freedom.

4. I began the season playing counter attacking football but against top sides I found that overload or attacking got me points. (I beat Man Utd, Man City, Aston Villa using this - yet I could not beat lowly sides with attacking football)

5. I tend to play with a deep defensive line as my defenders are slightly slow (12-13 pace/accel), with a high defensive line, I tend to get smashed on the counter.

6. I like my defenders to stand off (low closing down) but I want my midfield to close down very often to stop the opposing team creating chances.

I am curious what other people do, and wonder if what I am doing is actually incorrect and has led to my poor performances as manager.

I just wanted to add that I played FML (Football Manager Live) and I was extreemly successful at that game, however I always struggle against computerised teams and the AI on FM2010. This leads me to believe that the AI is far less prone to errors and a lot better at exposing our tactical downfalls.

I play lower leauges, and keep it simple at first and make it a bit more advanced as I get closer to the Prem or get better players.

I usually have creative freedom match their mentality. Attackers high, defenders low.

And closing down the same attackers high going down to defenders low.

High defence with attack. plus offside and counter attack.

I like a dmc 2.

1. Liverpool, Alfreton Town, Truro, Police (hong Kong)

2. Creator.

3. Fluid, no matter what team.

4. Attacking.

5. With Liverpool I tend to "push up" with the rest, I tend to leave it normal. Also use counter-attack and play offside.

6. Press more, don't like to give the opposition time. Stand-off is just asking for trouble imo

Agree about the DMC too, I think all formations I have used have had (at least) one

1. Manchester United and England, I have not managed to complete a season with any other team for a very long time, I just can't find the motivation to do so

2. I did the new tactics creator but I wasn't particularly succesful and found myself getting confused so I switched back to classic and have had more success

3. N/A

4. Attacking, I hate defensive tactics although I do go slightly more defensive in certain matches (e.g. away to Chelsea)

5. High, only switching to Deep if I have to shut up shop because of the match situation

6. Often Closing down, I want to get the ball back as quickly as possible

1. Excelsior Veldvezelt, Hamilton Academical, Millonarios, Rangers, Atlas, Sporting Lisbon, Fakel Voronezh

2. Creator

3. Fluid/Very Fluid

4. Attacking

5. High

6. Closing down

I have used a variety of formations, but I always use a similar playing style. So far it has got me 7 league titles in 9 seasons so it seems to be working well.

Bristol City

4-3-1-2

Balanced in Championship, Fluid in Prem

In champ, I played standard pretty much all season home/away, finished 2nd..In prem play counter away/still tinkering at home.

Normal def line mostly..closing down depends on what team, top 6 clubs leave it normal, if you close down to quick they take the **** and open you up like a can of worms..lol

1. Spurs currently but also Ajax, New York Red Bulls & England (in WW's international champions league edit)

2. Use the wizard and now generally use 4-2-3-1

3. On the whole fluid/very fluid but each game and opponents are taken on their merits and adjusted as needed.

4. Attacking (very) mainly but again I adapt to each opponent

5. Low end of normal (towards deep) but again depends on opponents

6. One of my DC's is a 'stopper' and he is quite high, other than that the defenders are quite low. Centre mids are quite high, wide boys more towards normal. The Trequartista at AMC is virtually nothing and the ST is somewhere in the middle.

Havant and Waterlooville. (into the Premiership in 11 seasons)

Atacking 4-1-3-2.

Sliders - Setting each players tactic individually depending on their position.

Closing down in own half.

Normal defensive line.

1. Carrarese (one title and promotion from C2 to C1), Afan Lido (first season survival in the Welsh Premier League), England (World Cup Runners-up in 2010).

2. I use the tactics creator. My preferred formation is 4-2-3-1 with DMs and AMR/AMC/AML. Sometimes I switch this to 4-4-1-1, 4-4-2 (depending on players available) or 4-2-4 (when I need a goal).

3. Rigid with zonal marking (with England, I used 'more roaming from position' and 'more creativity', while with Afan Lido in Wales I tended to use more direct passing). I just tend to prefer the rigid mentality structure (bands of two, which I used quite a bit on the old FMs) and I can easily adjust the creative freedom settings using the 'more creativity' option.

4. I change my strategy depending on the circumstances. I also use the shouts to change things.

5. My defensive line changes depending on the strategy I choose to employ. Sometimes I use the shouts to push up more or drop deeper depending on what I see happening in the match.

6. I use default closing down.

Ezequiel_Lavezzi - have you read T&T'10 on the tactics forum?

I would suggest doing so, as that might help you with understanding the different strategies (and when you might want to use them). It will also help with your other difficulties involving the defensive line and closing down.

Edit - you can download it here.

1. What team do you play with?

2. Do you use classic or new tactics creator and what formation do you play?.

3. Do you play Rigid? Balanced or Fluid?

4. Do you play defensive or attacking?

5. Do you use a high defensive line or a deep defensive line.

6. What kind of closing down do you use?

Each save can be different and I try to do whats best for the team but in general:

1. Various, more often than not starting in the lower leagues though.

2. Tactics creator - Formation depends on the players available.

3. As a general rule of thumb I would say rigid but as the players improve with better skills I would edge towards fluid.

4. Depends on the opposition and other factors but I would say I rarely use anything more defensive than counter attack. In general I like to have a strong defence and would rather win 1-0 than 5-4.

5. Again depends on the players & opposition. With the right players a high line can work well while I try not to go too deep.

6. Depends on my team, with plenty of stamina I'll hunt the ball particularly against weaker opposition. If my players tire or the opposition are dangerous I would prefer to try and keep a defensive shape (maybe targeting certain opposition players).

Ezequiel_Lavezzi - have you read T&T'10 on the tactics forum?

I would suggest doing so, as that might help you with understanding the different strategies (and when you might want to use them). It will also help with your other difficulties involving the defensive line and closing down.

Edit - you can download it here.

Yep I have read it and I actually believe my tactic is quite decent. I am just trying to get a view of what the average gamer does.

It seems to me that my team talks, poor conferences and general poor morale killed me at West Ham

I am back at the helm of West Ham in a new save, so I will see how I go, in the EPL again with a new tactical setup, using ideas from this thread and the tactical approach I read from Cleon.

I have the guide for those things as well, but it seems FM has to be played in a certain way and if you sway from it just a little, things go pear shaped very very quickly.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's been helpful for us here.

1. What team do you play with?

Leicester and anyone who'll have me, i usually run over 50 leagues in over 20 countries.

2. Do you use classic or new tactics creator and what formation do you play?.

Creator, i did revert to the classic but my results dipped!

3. Do you play Rigid? Balanced or Fluid?

Depends on how good my players are, im Leicester City now and in the first season, im top of the Championship using Rigid, sometimes edging to balanced.

4. Do you play defensive or attacking?

Control mentality is how i start a game and leave it if im winning, Overload seems to make the game not show much highlights so i tend to go with attacking im im chasing a point or 3.

5. Do you use a high defensive line or a deep defensive line.

Deep, Dont wanna be caught out napping, but its been on auto for a while.

6. What kind of closing down do you use?

If my players had a lot of stamina id use it to the fullest, i tend to have it auto, i then set tackling to cautious and then use touchline shouts to tell the players to hassle and get stuck in.

Yep I have read it and I actually believe my tactic is quite decent. I am just trying to get a view of what the average gamer does.

It seems to me that my team talks, poor conferences and general poor morale killed me at West Ham

I am back at the helm of West Ham in a new save, so I will see how I go, in the EPL again with a new tactical setup, using ideas from this thread and the tactical approach I read from Cleon.

I have the guide for those things as well, but it seems FM has to be played in a certain way and if you sway from it just a little, things go pear shaped very very quickly.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's been helpful for us here.

Have you tried leaving the press conferences to the Ass Man ? it might be worth trying even if you like to do them your self as he will not mess them up, you could then after a few months go to the history page and see what sort of answers he is giving and try to so similar, i personally find them boring after a while and just leave them to him, occasionally doing one.

With team talks you could try clicking the option to let him give them and then changing any of the responses for some of the players if you dont agree with what he says or all of them for that matter.

As for your initial question.

1. What team do you play with?

2. Do you use classic or new tactics creator and what formation do you play?.

3. Do you play Rigid? Balanced or Fluid?

4. Do you play defensive or attacking?

5. Do you use a high defensive line or a deep defensive line.

6. What kind of closing down do you use?

1. Various, Man UTD, Ajax, Mansfield Town, Morecambe, England, Cameroon, any International Team that will take me. also after i have i selected the leagues i want to play and view only i use the select random team, click it several times while not looking and using what ever team it lands on.

2. Initially the creator then i make minor adjustments from the advanced options but not for every player, for example if a players default position has take long shots often but the player has a low rating for this i will adjust accordingly to what i think he should be doing, i also use the shouts during the game. as for formations, my fav is 4-4-2 with either MR/ML wingers or AML/AMR wingers or i will drop one back so i have ML/AMR for example. BUT on my 2 current saves with Ajax i am playing 41212 with 2 CM, and on my Morecambe save i have just changed formation from a 433 to a 4312 with 3 CM players. when i was managing Cameroon i played about with 2 wing back systems, 12232(1SW-2CD-2WB's-3CM-2CF some times dropping one of the CF into the AMC position) or 3232 (3CD-2WB-3CM-2CF, again sometimes dropping one of the CF into the AMC position).

3. Usually i start off with Balanced and adjust during the game if needed, but again in my 2 current saves Ajax default are set to fluid and Morecambe are set to rigid.

4. Mostly i start of with the "standard" option and adjust during the game as i need to, but in my Ajax game i set the default option to Control, in my Morecambe save i have currently set to Counter.

5. Default settings by the creator when i make the tactic, using in game shouts to adjust during a match to change things if need be.

6. Default settings for the creator positions but again use shouts during a match to changes things if need be.

Club - Currently Porto.

Tactics - Creator.

Philosophy - Fluid.

Starting Strategy - Control

Defensive Line - Normal.

Closing Down - Press more.

Always like this. Doesnt matter if Im playing the CL final against Man Utd or some cup match against Paços de Ferreira.

1. What team do you play with?

I just started a new game with Amkar in the Russian league.

2. Do you use classic or new tactics creator and what formation do you play?.

I use the tactics wizard and change corner instructions myself and I usually play a flat 4-4-2.

3. Do you play Rigid? Balanced or Fluid?

Always Fluid, unless I play defensive, in that case I go with Rigid.

4. Do you play defensive or attacking?

In my previous saves I always used the Control mentality except for special matches, but in my new game I'm having success with an Attacking approach with high d-line and offside trap.

5. Do you use a high defensive line or a deep defensive line.

Look up

6. What kind of closing down do you use?

I always use the Press More option because my players won't close down at all if I set it to Default or Stand Off.

Once again thanks for all the feedback.

With a combination of these posts and reading some guides made by Cleon in my new save, I am actually going very well with West Ham (using the same players).

I was relegated with my first attempt with West Ham, in the new save I am close to qualifying for Europa League (6th spot)

I am also using the "less is better" approach to team talks, conferences and opposition instructions.

So yes, it is your tactics.

with regards to closing down, i always have it on the highest possible setting. that said i always make sure any signings have good stamina and work rate so they fit well within such a system.

1. Lincoln, Crystal Palace, Plymouth

2. Creator tactics - currently 4-3-1-2. For some reason I haven't been able to make a 4-4-2 work for me over long periods in FM10.

3. Depends on the level, but generally Balanced, rising to Fluid as the level of ability goes up.

4. I normally start out as Standard and then adjust up or down depending on situation in the match, but currently I'm the best team in the division so I'm starting with Control just to create chances against defensive opposition.

5. Generally stick with default, but occasionally drop a little deeper depending on opposition.

6. I generally stick with default, perhaps with some individual tweaks. This is the next thing to be addressed because like the OP I think it's been the root of some problems for me defensively.