Are SI going to fix defending?

With almost a month gone since the release of the new patch a lot of talk has been focused on "supergoalies", "stupid finishers", central defenders taking a hike when the ball comes into their half, real life stats regarding finishing etc etc.

While SI have confirmed that they are going to fix this issue in the next patch, what was not confirmed (even on asking) was whether the whole defending aspect of the game is being looked into. By defending i don't just mean the two central defenders, two full backs and the keeper. By defending i mean how the whole team plays when the ball is with the opposition.

There are a number of problems with the game (at least i seem to have it) (Let me make myself clear that these things happen to the opposition players as well and on a number of times my team has taken advantage and scored goals..few of them vital ones) While there has been a lot of talk in another thread whether Greece did or did not reintroduce man marking into the football world, i think that system is totally forgotten in the FM world.

Whenever i face either a strong team or an equal, i ask my wingers and fullbacks to man mark (and tight mark) their fullbacks and wingers. However it does not happen. Even when their creativity is down to zero, they still come inside the field (especially when the action is on the opposite flank), allowing lots of space for the opposition.

Another complaint is players not taking responsibility. When a ball is cleared (either through a clearance by a defender or from a tackle) the player nearest to it does not go to take control of it. Players from other position make a sprint to try and take the ball, leaving a hole which can be exploited by the opposition.

However my main complaint is players running away from the ball. No matter who the player is, no matter what his mental stats are, when an opposition player makes a pass, the players just run away from the ball when they very well could have taken control or at least put pressure on the opposition by standing where they are.

There are a couple of ways in which this happens. Firstly the player just runs away from the ball when a pass is made. Second the player does not close down a loose ball in the air (this happens even when the ball is just a couple of feet away from his position...he just stands where he is and allows an opposition player to come and collect the ball.

My second complaint is the slowness of the defenders when collecting clearances. When a ball is cleared by the opposition to the flanks or deep into your half, the defenders for no apparent reason put up a circus show. They start to track back sideways or backwards. This naturally slows them down considerably and allows the opposition players to close down fast. Most of the time the defender is forced to make a half clearance or put the ball out of touch. But a sizable chunk of such situations end in chances created for the opponents, some of which end in a goals.

These two situations came together to end in couple of my most frustrating match in the whole FM series. After literally playing the first half inside the opposition penalty area, i had hit the post three times. Ok....these things happen. Midway through the second half, the ball is cleared to my left flank. The fullback should collected the ball easily...however he tracks back sideways..which allows the opposition right winger to close him down and my fullback is forced to make a clearance...does he clear it out of touch???? No...he clears it towards my central defenders who continue to go forward allowing the striker to head in a simple goal....This was the only chance created by my opponent for the whole match.

its going to be down to how rigid and the roaming settings to why players may ignore personal tactics, they play as a team and will be caught out, watch a real game and show me a player marked out for 90 minutes solid, when your players are doing the job you wont notice it as the opposition dont score

Would like to see defending fixed also. It's just a shame that the game is ruined by this pathetic match engine. In FM players like Scott Parker, Gennaro Gattuso etc. seem like nobodies. As in real life those guys work all the time to get the ball to their own team, in FM, just pathetic... It also seem that in defending duties players always make stupid decisions like central midfielders giving pressure to opposition's central defenders far too late and that leaves huge gaps in the midfield.

Agressive and physical aspect of game seems to be missing completely. No doubt about it, once again, defending is broken.

It would be nice if SI finally answered to this defending question as it has been there since FM08.

its going to be down to how rigid and the roaming settings to why players may ignore personal tactics, they play as a team and will be caught out, watch a real game and show me a player marked out for 90 minutes solid, when your players are doing the job you wont notice it as the opposition dont score

I dont use tactics creator so rigidity or fluidity does not come into question. Apart from a couple of attacking players, the rest of the team has creative freedom to zero (including my two central defenders). As for the roaming settings..will i be going to set roaming to yes for my central defenders and full backs???

Regarding the question of marking...yes...a player does not actually mark out another player for the whole 90 minutes. But why is man marking set?? Man marking is set because a manager does not want an opposition player to become an attacking threat. When you are either drawing or leading the match by just one goal....and the action is in your half, a player who has been given the responsibility to man mark does his job even when the time is 92nd minute. That is not the case here.

You may want to up your players creative freedom a notch or two above zero, if it's on zero your players will never use common sense and will just follow your instructions to the letter (well to the best of their ability) that can lead to problems (I've found it's rarely a good idea to set any of the sliders to their min or max value apart from the rarely/mixed/often type ones)

We would love it if you could provide examples of these issues you're talking about alongside pkm's uploaded to our FTP and reported on our bugs forum so we can look into these issues, then log them, and potentially fix them. Thanks.

I got irritated an uninstalled the game thinking to reinstall it again once the new patch is released. However i did save screenies from a couple of such incidents which ended in goals.

And

You may want to up your players creative freedom a notch or two above zero, if it's on zero your players will never use common sense and will just follow your instructions to the letter (well to the best of their ability) that can lead to problems (I've found it's rarely a good idea to set any of the sliders to their min or max value apart from the rarely/mixed/often type ones)

I had done this now...since i was managing Leeds but in my other saves (most of them with big teams) i had set them to third notch of little. Also when i used tactics creator...i did not meddle with any instructions of my own

I agree that players need to be generally more intelligent when they are not involved with the ball play.

Even when my team has the ball, when a player passes the ball but the pass is inaccurate, usually only the original player targeted for the pass will respond and everyone else will take like 2 seconds to think whether they should get it. In top league football, every player should be ready to receive the ball.

And a lot of the defenders seem to forget the most basic defending skills like goal side marking.

Anyone noticed the incopetence of full backs marking in-cutting wingers when they're without the ball?

I'm also wondering why defenders miss headers and misjudge flight of the ball so often even though they're more used to head the balls than many strikers. Strikers never tend to misjudge in those situations.

Also why defenders don't use their strenght when running along opponent. A strong and fast fullback should be able to push weak winger of from the ball.

Weak wingers like Theo Walcott, Steven Pienaar and others seem to be just brilliant in the game. IRL Walcott is only a sub player because he has nothing special to offer but his pace.

Just lost Europa league final in 2015 with Valencia. Walcott scored twice. First one he headed in when my CB missed header and second when another CB missed interception and he got through on goal...

One of the main things about defending that I've noticed is the fact that all defending players are too passive. This includes defenders and also defending midfielders. If you watch real football, you can see players like Fabio Cannavaro seeking for chances to intercept passes and cut down opposition's attacks. In FM defending players don't read the game and actively try to get the ball from opposition, they only tackle or intercept if the ball comes into their path, they're never seeking these chances.

This is also the reason why attacking players are winning most of the headers in crosses. When a winger crosses the ball, attacking players seek actively free space but defenders mainly just stand there and sometimes if the ball comes to their path, they just miss the header or make some other mistake.

I think that this is the biggest reason why there are so many goal scoring chances in this game. It a big error and can't be fixed in small amount of time...

I agree with those who say defending is poor on FM10 (and was even worse on FM09). There are two major problems that I can see: teams don't defend as a unit so they are too easily pulled out of position, and defending teams are no good at pressing so it is too easy for the attacking team to pick a pass or a shot (this is probably what accounts for the large number of one-on-ones).

The new version is coming soon and I think it's time to get this thread up once again. So any changes in this area?

The new version is coming soon and I think it's time to get this thread up once again. So any changes in this area?

Have a look at the brief glimpse of the match engine in the FM 11 video to get your 'potential' answer

7:09 in the video

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7655/me11010.jpg

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9086/me11011.jpg

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9034/me11012.jpg

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/7742/me11013.jpg

7:49 in the video

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4067/me11014.jpg

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7266/me11015.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3043/me11016.jpg

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3076/me11017.jpg

does not fill me with confidence to be honest.

- the ease of the long ball in the first segment

- 6:52 the RB defending and the defending midfielder rushing out of the box against the flow of play

- 7:40 attacker running the channel with ease while the remaining back 3 hold their nominal position

Similar types of 'issues' as with FM 10 (or maybe it's just me who thinks these are issues )

its your tactics?

I only conceeded 11 or 12 in the prem last season....and that's playing a 3-4-1-2 formation.

It's not his tactics as I've had this, it's similar to FM09 where defenders decide to fall asleep or let someone run right past them. Bloomin' annoying and one of the reasons why I've only ever completed one season on FM10.

If you watch football a lot of defensive errors are due to players going for the ball and forgetting their positional responsibility, in FM it's much more likely to be players worrying about getting into position and totally ignoring the ball.

It's not his tactics as I've had this, it's similar to FM09 where defenders decide to fall asleep or let someone run right past them. Bloomin' annoying and one of the reasons why I've only ever completed one season on FM10.

All players will make errors. If your set up right other players should be able to cover the mistake. As I say I only play 3 at the back and have no problem with the OMFG teams can't defend. I have had the best defence and the most goals in my last 3 seasons. Yes the game has flaws but you can compensate for it.

its your tactics?

I only conceeded 11 or 12 in the prem last season....and that's playing a 3-4-1-2 formation.

All players do make mistakes but which is more often in FM; defending errors or attacking errors where strikers run into wrong direction or completely miss the ball when shooting it, or even make a bad first touch? - Yes, those attacking errors don't even happen in game.

Players make random mistakes in games, and this is built into FM. Imagine if the Pepe Reina thing this weekend had actually happened in FM? Would that be "broken goalkeeping"?

There is always room for improvement in FM, and there always will be, but I don't think this is a huge problem. I expect it will be better (that is to say more logical) than in FM10, but will it be perfect? Of course not. And if they programme players to act a little erratically once in a blue moon, all the better.

The match engine as a whole has been really bad since FM09. I think SI need to start testing it with systems other than 442.

Players make random mistakes in games, and this is built into FM. Imagine if the Pepe Reina thing this weekend had actually happened in FM? Would that be "broken goalkeeping"?

Mistakes are not the only problem in defending also pressing, marking, intercepting passes, judging flight of balls and positioning in cross balls really suck.

I'm not too sure that finishing should or does affect a striker too much. most strikers, whatever their finishing should put away certain chances, and their ability should be their ability to get into the right positions. take luiz adriano for shakhtar who has 8 for finishing. for me he has scored 15 in 28 including a hattrick and goals against bordeux in the CL. i know im in a poor league but he rarely misses "easy chances"

If you watch football a lot of defensive errors are due to players going for the ball and forgetting their positional responsibility, in FM it's much more likely to be players worrying about getting into position and totally ignoring the ball.

That is one major defect in the current ME (10.3). The fact that the closest defender (player) does not close down the ball, when the initial defensive line is breached. In FM other players who are not close to the ball carrier then run after him (due to having higher closing down settings). When what should be happening is that the closest player (defender) should be trying to put the opponent under pressure. While the other player or players (who are on higher closing down instructions) should be filling gabs.

http://www.footytube.com/video/wolverhampton-wanderers-stoke-city-aug14-53604

Here, real football. Compare it to FM's match engine. In this real football match you can see physical presence of defenders, misskicks from attacking players, shot blockings and defending players actually following the men they're supposed to mark. I see a clear difference, do you. Last FM which had really good aggressive defending was FM 2007. Any comments from SI?

http://www.footytube.com/video/wolverhampton-wanderers-stoke-city-aug14-53604

Here, real football. Compare it to FM's match engine. In this real football match you can see physical presence of defenders, misskicks from attacking players, shot blockings and defending players actually following the men they're supposed to mark. I see a clear difference, do you. Last FM which had really good aggressive defending was FM 2007. Any comments from SI?

Totally agree with this. I don't know how many of you FMers from all across the world feel about currenty match engine, but in my country's FM

forums, I posted a thread regarding some weird and interesting phenomenon from the inter-connection between match engine performance and

those 'mdt' files. By those 'mdt' files I mean the files that you can find from in the folder

X:\Program Files\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2010\data\tables I observed and sensed that these files are related to the match engine

and questioned if you replace these files with the older version's what affect will that make. So I really did perform the experiment and got interesting

results. I mixed up a combination of all these mdt files using those from the older versions' -- FM2007 FM2008 and FM2009 to replace those files

currentlyl ying in the 10.0.3 game folders. Then the match experience became largely different. A lot of movements that I've never seen

from FM2010 comes up excitingly. The process of matches become more realistic and match events no longer repeating and boring. Believe in

that or not, it does makes differences. A lot of people from the forum are really enjoying the game now after using my combination of different

version's mdt files.

angle_lookup_table.mdt ball_at_feet_offsets.mdt direction_table.mdt distance_angle_table.mdt distance_lookup_table.mdt

si_sqrt_table.mdt speed_angle_table.mdt speed_direction_table.mdt

These files makes things different. Anyone noticed that or if SI can look into this to make match engine more realistic and better.

I agree that players need to be generally more intelligent when they are not involved with the ball play.

Even when my team has the ball, when a player passes the ball but the pass is inaccurate, usually only the original player targeted for the pass will respond and everyone else will take like 2 seconds to think whether they should get it. In top league football, every player should be ready to receive the ball.

And a lot of the defenders seem to forget the most basic defending skills like goal side marking.

This is the issue I get most annoyed by I think. I just love seeing a slow rolling ball go right past one of my players standing around and right to an opponent. The AI is smart enough to think "I'm gonna do a heel back pass right here" but not smart enough to think "Hmmm, two steps and an easy interception" or recovering an errant pass.

Then you have a CB marking someone nice and tight as a midfielder tries to find a hole. Then as soon as the through pass is made and the strike breaks for the ball is the one time your CB stops moving with him and just stands there to watch the one-on-one. Why can't they stick with the man they were just marking so well or at least try to intercept that pass. Lastly, out of all the matches I've seen I think I've seen the guys marking the posts have any impact at all just once, mine or an opponents. Even seen balls bounce right in front of them and get put in or balls go right over their heads and they never move an inch.

The defense is easily the weakest AI in the game with general handling of passes in the open field a very close second.

http://www.footytube.com/video/wolverhampton-wanderers-stoke-city-aug14-53604

Here, real football. Compare it to FM's match engine. In this real football match you can see physical presence of defenders, misskicks from attacking players, shot blockings and defending players actually following the men they're supposed to mark. I see a clear difference, do you. Last FM which had really good aggressive defending was FM 2007. Any comments from SI?

I love FM07, but defending wasn't great in that game. Strikers found it far too easy to weave between the centre backs.

I love FM07, but defending wasn't great in that game. Strikers found it far too easy to weave between the centre backs.

The aggression and activity in defending is so much better. When opposition cross the ball in the box it's almost always my CB's who win the ball and when they pass it slowly in my area, there are loads of great interceptions from my defenders.

I played a season with Chelsea and my CBs Carvalho and Terry both had AvR ~ 7,5 and according to stats made 5 and 7 mistakes in the whole season, in FM 10 they could be making as many mistakes in just two games.

Well I will have to disagree with that. IMO the defending in that game was best I've seen in the game's history. I've played game since 2006 and have to say that even today I'd much rather play FM 07 with 06/07 database than even try to enjoy these newer ones.

The aggression and activity in defending is so much better. When opposition cross the ball in the box it's almost always my CB's who win the ball and when they pass it slowly in my area, there are loads of great interceptions from my defenders.

I played a season with Chelsea and my CBs Carvalho and Terry both had AvR ~ 7,5 and according to stats made 5 and 7 mistakes in the whole season, in FM 10 they could be making as many mistakes in just two games.

Average ratings could have been higher because a 7.5 in FM07 was rounded to 8. Terry and Carvalho could have switched between 6.5 and 7.5 and still averaged 7.5. Also, mistakes were counted differently. Nowadays, the slightest error is counted as a mistake, but in FM07 it had to be a major lapse to be chalked up as an error.

In my Sport Boys side, my centre backs would get consistently good ratings, but actually play badly, constantly be backing off strikers who were running at them. They didn't lose marks for this, but it was bad defending. Before you ask, they were both good defenders, 15+ in all the important attributes back in the days when it was possible to find defenders rated like that!

I also think that FM07's ME is superior to FM10's, but the defending in it was awful.

Average ratings could have been higher because a 7.5 in FM07 was rounded to 8. Terry and Carvalho could have switched between 6.5 and 7.5 and still averaged 7.5. Also, mistakes were counted differently. Nowadays, the slightest error is counted as a mistake, but in FM07 it had to be a major lapse to be chalked up as an error.

In my Sport Boys side, my centre backs would get consistently good ratings, but actually play badly, constantly be backing off strikers who were running at them. They didn't lose marks for this, but it was bad defending. Before you ask, they were both good defenders, 15+ in all the important attributes back in the days when it was possible to find defenders rated like that!

I also think that FM07's ME is superior to FM10's, but the defending in it was awful.

I still wonder why SI isn't particapating to this conversation...

Then the match experience became largely different. A lot of movements that I've never seen

from FM2010 comes up excitingly. The process of matches become more realistic and match events no longer repeating and boring. Believe in

that or not, it does makes differences. A lot of people from the forum are really enjoying the game now after using my combination of different

version's mdt files.

angle_lookup_table.mdt ball_at_feet_offsets.mdt direction_table.mdt distance_angle_table.mdt distance_lookup_table.mdt

si_sqrt_table.mdt speed_angle_table.mdt speed_direction_table.mdt

These files makes things different. Anyone noticed that or if SI can look into this to make match engine more realistic and better.

Would you care to share on this forum? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be interested in playing around with this...

I'm not too sure that finishing should or does affect a striker too much. most strikers, whatever their finishing should put away certain chances, and their ability should be their ability to get into the right positions. take luiz adriano for shakhtar who has 8 for finishing. for me he has scored 15 in 28 including a hattrick and goals against bordeux in the CL. i know im in a poor league but he rarely misses "easy chances"

While this has nothing to do with defending I have to say this one thing. Finishing seems to have far too little of an affect on the actual finish. IMO, the more deciding factor is what PPM finishing style a player has. For instance I have a new guy on my Colorado team with 17 finishing (plus average in all the good supporting stats like composure), but he has the "shoots with power" PPM. It's annoying because I see the EXACT same behavior out of him as my much lower quality 12 finisher. They both shoot the ball right at the keeper 50% of the time, the only time I score is when they are smart enough to place a shot in the corners. Now if you give a player "place your shots" I see a massive difference in the production.

The sheer number of times you see a ball get shot straight at the keeper is mind boggling.

They both shoot the ball right at the keeper 50% of the time, the only time I score is when they are smart enough to place a shot in the corners.

Just for the record, "finishing" is how well they can shoot at the goal. That works well, apparently. The "Composure" stat goes hand in hand with finishing; it should be meaning how well they cope with the pressure of seeing a goalkeeper between the posts and trying to shoot the ball where the keeper can`t reach. If those strikers have the same composure, that might explain something.

Just for the record, "finishing" is how well they can shoot at the goal. That works well, apparently. The "Composure" stat goes hand in hand with finishing; it should be meaning how well they cope with the pressure of seeing a goalkeeper between the posts and trying to shoot the ball where the keeper can`t reach. If those strikers have the same composure, that might explain something.

13 composure for the better of the two and 9 composure on the lesser. Again they do the same thing. The better guy I just got so I'm working on training him out of the power shot to placed shots, I'd put money that he'll put the ball into the net much more when I have that done. Power shooting might be better for long range snipers, but for work in the area it's made no noticeable difference.

But enough derailment. back on topic the defending AI is pretty bad at times. Another things that's so fun to watch is a CB closing down to the center line and running right past the striker that gets the ball chipped onto him in the process, even when the CB is set to minimal closing instructions.

But enough derailment. back on topic the defending AI is pretty bad at times. Another things that's so fun to watch is a CB closing down to the center line and running right past the striker that gets the ball chipped onto him in the process, even when the CB is set to minimal closing instructions.

I hope all the tactics are getting a rework. Not 2 impressed with these sliders and the fact you can go from one extreme to another at times and it not making a single difference. Plus players completely ignoring orders or not being able to perform the right order.

The sheer number of times you see a ball get shot straight at the keeper is mind boggling.

Thats mostly down to the graphics.

There are only a limited number of animations for saves so you don't get the variety you see in RL.

The match engine just calculates a shot as saved and then picks a suitable animation.

Thats mostly down to the graphics.

There are only a limited number of animations for saves so you don't get the variety you see in RL.

The match engine just calculates a shot as saved and then picks a suitable animation.

This is actually something that had crossed my mind and does make sense to a degree. Still see my keeper make plenty of diving save to the sides though, so I wouldn't put it all down to that.

As for the guys talking about the tactics. They are a guideline more then anything, you need good smart players to work with those tactics. Sure you can completely change a tactic setting for a player from one extreme to another, but if the change doesn't work with the rest of the team, they aren't used to it, they don't have the stats to implement it, etc then of course you aren't going to see it work. I see lots of difference with tactics in the right situation. It's also not like the simulation is based on your tactics. I've had plenty of times where dominating, close match, or getting crushed one particular player of mine always sucks with passing the ball (luckily he's just a right back that can at least cross). There is certainly plenty of player individuality on the pitch it's not just a rock/paper/scissors tactics comparison being calculated.

But that's what makes the AI so annoying. Like last night was one of the worst, had by full backs covering a corner or some such, the ball comes out to midfield and the opponents make a quick counter down the left side, my left back had a striker make a run at goal to receive the ball not 10-15 yards from my LB. The man with the ball was 50-60 yards wider and farther down field from him and there was no one else near enough to cover the close strike. So what does my LB do, he literally ran right past the man right in front of him and closed down the ball career. Who quick easily chipped the ball ahead and right onto the striker making the run, went straight to goal and got the shot off (thankfully I had a good keeper).

Ok, now you can chalk that up to a bad player or something, but this is a LB who's been solid for me all season, was playing well in this game (other then that), and has good concentration, decisions, etc. But even so anyone could have been on the field and recognized the threat was the guy making the run not the taking the ball down the flank. You wouldn't need some super star to figure out you cover the guy making the run at goal (-ESPECIALLY- when he runs right past you) and let the ball run down the flank until the other D get back.

Defending is the biggest problem in the game.

Have you ever tried to play a game where you play to snatch 1-0 wins and kep clean sheets? Even with good defenders (in comparison to the strikers you are playing against) you really struggle to keep it tight at the back.

Set pieces aside, the screamers from 30 yards are a nuisance, but the defenders just do silly things at times and it's really annoying.

People don't tend to complain about defending as they are all trying to win games 10-0. Trying to keep a clean sheet is a different ketle of fish.

Ah, yes. I totally forgot set-pieces which are in fact horrible nowadays. The same thing (near post flick on + challenge keeper) has been wickedly effective since FM 2007. I used to ignore changing my set pieces playing in FM 09 and FM 10 because it's just not fun to score 5 goals per game from set pieces. The difference now is that in older versions defending side often got to first balls and cleared in set pieces but now maybe over 50% of the balls have been won by attacking side it creates huge amount of chances to score... Also, have to ask, where are the bad deliviries like most of Lampard's corners are?

I would enjoy FM a lot more if it had more fun features that take it away from the frustrations of real life football. Sometimes I get more infuriated playing FM than actually enjoying it - which is why I play only a couple of games a week. I understand it is meant to be a simulation but sometimes it feels as though the whole game is designed to be an insurmountable task against the player rather than a real to life footballing world. Things rarely go your way in FM and when it does there is little to no reward for it.

I like to play defensive and counter attacking football in the game but it is just near-on impossible to implement the way I want it to as the whole game is designed in such a way that 1 small error in a team talk, or media replies leading up to the game stop it from happening.

Does media really affect a players performance on the park in real life football? My experience is NO - saying a player could be a burden to their side can be devastating to the opposition in FM but in real life from my experience I have never heard a manager bad mouth any opposition player in such an unprofessional manner.

In my opinion "mind games" is something that only really happens in the wonderful world of the EPL. In Serie A these mind games rarely happen and I guess that's why when Mourinho came along to Inter he was instantly hated because we don't like people mouthing off and making a dick of themselves.

The effectiveness of crossing and set pieces from wide areas is what gets me. You can have two big, strong centre-backs against two small strikers, but attacking players will continuously win headers on goal. Most are harmless and go over the bar, but it's almost funny as it gets to a point where every cross being whipped in is producing a header on goal. Even when the crosses are coming on from positions/angles that should clearly suit the defender (ie - from over the striker's shoulder while the defender is facing the ball).

The movement of defenders away from the ball, running on the spot, full-backs woefully out of position etc are issues that have been in since the start of the 3D. It's nothing new there and I don't expect it to be too different for FM11.

Ah, yes. I totally forgot set-pieces which are in fact horrible nowadays. The same thing (near post flick on + challenge keeper) has been wickedly effective since FM 2007. I used to ignore changing my set pieces playing in FM 09 and FM 10 because it's just not fun to score 5 goals per game from set pieces. The difference now is that in older versions defending side often got to first balls and cleared in set pieces but now maybe over 50% of the balls have been won by attacking side it creates huge amount of chances to score... Also, have to ask, where are the bad deliviries like most of Lampard's corners are?

In fairness to SI, the FM07 setup was more like a "best possible", and got maybe 7 or 8 goals a season, I found. 08 and 09 had variations which got more goals, a lot more in 09's case. In FM10, I'm yet to see someone claim that the old fashioned method works- the two exploits in this game work on exploiting the "spare man". Having said that, the spare man only appears because SI couldn't get the goalkeepers coded correctly previously, which led to the 08 and 09 exploits and SI creating shoehorn fixes to those problems.

So the policy of position before possession continues in the new version. Just saw the new videos uploaded on youtube and in one of the games (wimbledon v grimsby) and one of the defender is running hard to get into his position rather than try to catch up with the opposition player who has all the time in the world to pick up his mate (which he does:()