should pa be changable

now guys this is only my opinion but upon starting new games and hearing about players current ability's and potential ability's in various treads etc i know young players some start off on minus 10 9 8 etc however the minute the game starts the potential is locked in.

ie ca 123 pa 160

i was just thinking that this can be very unfair for instance now dont take this out of context a striker like lukulu who a lot have said has the potential to be one of the best strikers in the world been given the pa of 150 and some striker that is a regen been given potential of 190 or some other striker that will not be given 180 etc so at the age of 16 hes been given the potential to be just a slightly above average player

now alot of people will say how can you say that etc and i do know there maybe constraints in the game mechanism preventing giving higher pa etc

but in my opinion it should be changeable the pa should be based on coaches training, matches, facilities level of competition etc and maybe moved in scale ie a player can have a massive potential but needs the correct environments.

no disrespect to any lower league club but a trainee at arsenal has a better chance to a degree of becoming world class or on the flip side a player thats playing in competitive matches in the lower leagues or abroad at a feeder team would bring him round to a better physical level

just an idea now im just throwing it out i would just like to know what others may think about it

now guys this is only my opinion but upon starting new games and hearing about players current ability's and potential ability's in various treads etc i know young players some start off on minus 10 9 8 etc however the minute the game starts the potential is locked in.

ie ca 123 pa 160

i was just thinking that this can be very unfair for instance now dont take this out of context a striker like lukulu who a lot have said has the potential to be one of the best strikers in the world been given the pa of 150 and some striker that is a regen been given potential of 190 or some other striker that will not be given 180 etc so at the age of 16 hes been given the potential to be just a slightly above average player

now alot of people will say how can you say that etc and i do know there maybe constraints in the game mechanism preventing giving higher pa etc

but in my opinion it should be changeable the pa should be based on coaches training, matches, facilities level of competition etc and maybe moved in scale ie a player can have a massive potential but needs the correct environments.

no disrespect to any lower league club but a trainee at arsenal has a better chance to a degree of becoming world class or on the flip side a player thats playing in competitive matches in the lower leagues or abroad at a feeder team would bring him round to a better physical level

just an idea now im just throwing it out i would just like to know what others may think about it

And I'm one of them. PA is PA, it can't and shouldn't change.

If you don't look at the numbers and just go by your scout/coach reports then it is changeable, since the opinions on potential from your staff may rise or drop depending on circumstances surrounding the player.

The lad does have some degree of a point though. Maybe PA should be more comparative to the quality of players in the database as opposed to a fixed figure? I.e. If a number of players with around 190 PA retire, then some players in the 180-189 PA arena could rise slightly in PA, and then in turn this will continue down the PA of each player etc. That said, I can't see my suggestion above having much effect on what we already deal with but for me it demonstrates to an extent how PA is comparative to the players actually out there

I think it's fine as it is.

PA is player based

CA is player and club based (ie games played, training facilites etc)

Just like RL there are highs and lows in terms of the generation of quality youth i don't think the total overall PA level needs to remain constant.

There are very few players who actually reach their full potential, even if you find a player who is said to have 190 PA the odds of them getting any higher than 170 CA are very slim. You get lucky and find a couple of gems who are created with 180 CA every now and again but even they don't improve much at all.

The set PA is probably worth considering by simply by changing them to PA groups like we have with -10, -9 and -8. So for lower league players they would be more in the -5 and -4 area. With this in mind, however, you could argue that players are often under/overated at the start of the game which would be a bit of a pain.

If you don't look at the numbers and just go by your scout/coach reports then it is changeable, since the opinions on potential from your staff may rise or drop depending on circumstances surrounding the player.

Pretty much this.

PA is a hidden attribute, so it shouldn't be of our concern. Moreso while it's fixed [for players who don't have the -x rating], it does vary in a way.

Plenty of players, original or newgens, have a potential they won't ever reach or come close to, depending on their in-game career.

I disagree about the OP statement of players at a Top Club will always turn out better than they would at a smaller club.

Be it because youth teams at Big Clubs are based on the "law of large numbers", thus producing a handful of good players and a lot of mediocre ones, or be it because most youngsters fail to become good enough for the First Squad.

If it was just a matter of training a 16 years older at, say, Arsenal with plenty of top-notch staff, and he would ALWAYS become a World-Class Player, what would be the point of football?

This idea is very simplistic (and very childish if you don't mind...). Regular competitive matches in Championship or on loan abroad can be better than spending one year going back and forth from Reserve League and First Squad bench.

The "advantage" of being trained by worldclass staff doesn't make it up for the lack of competitive football in my book.

But back IT, PA is already sort of variable, no need to change things.

Eventually we could get rid of the fixed value, which has often created heated debates about 2 PA points more or less.

A different -x system might just work fine, also for avoiding having "the usual suspects" being bought by FM'ers all over the world.

This has been raised a couple of times but the argument is always the same and relates to CA, no PA.

no disrespect to any lower league club but a trainee at arsenal has a better chance to a degree of becoming world class or on the flip side a player thats playing in competitive matches in the lower leagues or abroad at a feeder team would bring him round to a better physical level

This is what I'm talking about. The potential would be the same, despite whatever club they're at. Reaching that potential should be harder at the club in a lower league with poor facilities than say, Arsenal. However, if Arsenal bought that young player for the LL club, his potential would be the same, he'd just have a better chance of reaching it.

Why change something that isn't broken? Its worked very well for years and as dafuge says it is changeable if you play the game the way it is supposed to be played.

I don't like that special seasons aren't rewarded. Say a 25 y/o with a CA of 130 scores 30 goals in the Premiership, then his PA will obviously get a boost for the next edition of FM. Why can't PA (or CA) be linked somehow to performance?

i know and understand what points you are all making

i dont for 1 second want arsenal to have an all conquering team i merely used them as an example but its more changeable for all players i meant for instance darren fletcher 3 seasons ago you would never of thought he would be the player he is now likewise bowyer top notch player before fell away for a bit now excellent again

i dont mean it all down to training coaches etc i just feel it can be a little unfair and ill use the two brazilian boys at man utd as an example should joe mattock have better pa than them at the start of a game before a ball has been kicked or should they both be given a chance to be brilliant similarly wilshire and shelvey i like playing fm but its merely a dicussion i wanted to raise and see what others think

I agree to a point. I think the PA shouldnt be fixed it should depend on how a player is brought up.let say for example i had merida and his PA is 120 and let say i like the player so been training him and playing him regular i do expect him to be a better player as in his PA excedding the 120. Yes CA does this but the PA of a player is fixed so no matter how gud u make a player he would always be 2stars which is bad in a way.

I also think that PA should not be a fixed value!