Have the scouting tools ruined FM?

Recently I tried out some of these scouting tools and now I find that I cannot play the game with out them. I just have to find out the PA of every member of my squad and decided if I should keep them, rather than use my backroom staff and instinct.

Help me.

Nope not at all because I don't use them.

Just delete the scouting tools and keep telling yourself not to use them, simples.

Scouting tools?

I sympathise.

Curiosity frequently gets the better of me and I end up in a frenzy downloading the latest Genie to uncover my CA/PAs.

As Genie isn’t out for patch 2, I recently downloaded a real-time editor to find out the PAs of my U18s. I ended up experimented with some of the features and messed up a few of my players! Never again.

My resolve had hardened to never again use third party tools. I will resume the following:-

1. Try and work out a possible decent PA player by taking screenshots of player’s attribute page and paste onto a spreadsheet. Do this a couple of times a year and compare attributes to work out who is developing/going to the dogs etc.

2. Assess players through attributes and match stats/performances only. Ignore ass man/coach advice.

3. Buy players using only the search tool and assessing attributes and historical stats. Don’t bother with scouts and try and ignore ass man’s advice when you offer a contract. Go with your assessment of the player and gut instinct.

The game’s much more fun and fulfilling that way, especially when your signing from the lower leagues turns out to be gem – you only know through performances, not having loaded up Genie Scout.

You must be ruthless with your youths and the youngsters you’ve signed for the U18 squad, though. If you wait too long for them to turn into first teamers you’ll end up with a reserve and U18 squad bigger than the Roman Legions.

No they haven't ruined the game, how could they? If you agree with them, use them, if you don't, then don't. Simple really.

@ the OP, YOU have ruined your game for yourself, the scouting tool isn't to blame!

Used them once during a game several years ago and felt the same, it ruined the game for me.

Now I occasionally use them when I'm finished a long term save to look through some of the players I've signed or missed out on but as this doesn't affect my next save so it doesn't bother me.

You sound like the people who tried to sue McDonalds for making them rather large

Just delete them all from your computer and be really strict with yourself.

To scout the players and find them yourself is much better to me. I found a very good regen and bought him, a couple of seasons later I checked his PA and found out it was 198 !!! I was a little proud

I can't play the game without scouting tools and I am grateful for them. Just assume you hired a very clever scout. It happens in real life, no problem.

A very clever scout cannot tell you exactly how good a player will be FM Scout or whatever will.

True, but Genie will only show you the potential. He might reach it, he might not. Plus Genie will give you information on his character that really the game scouts should give you in a lot more detail than they currently do

Just don't use the 3rd party scouting tools, simple!

But if you really think about it, all the AI managers have access to all these hidden numbers. All the top teams have the full knowledge of a player's potential, and they snap up all the young newgens with 190+PA's, so is it really fair that the human manager should be left out of this party?

Every AI managers suddenly all hear a secret news about a wonderkid in some low division reserve team and go crazy to sign him, but we human managers are like

"uhhh........you reckon this player is a woderkid even though absolutely no other teams are interested in him?"

scout: "Sure. I have 20 in spotting player's potential."

....

then turns out he only has a PA of something like 150 and 5 consistency. lol

Of course it's unhealthy to take CA/PA values too seriously, but other things like personality and consistency/important matches are very helpful to know.

I mean it's just trippy that you keep blaming your tactics for your player's low rating, when actually he has a low consistency.

And the scouts don't always tell you these things. They only do when they feel like it.

Recently I tried out some of these scouting tools and now I find that I cannot play the game with out them. I just have to find out the PA of every member of my squad and decided if I should keep them, rather than use my backroom staff and instinct.

Help me.

just be glad your addicted to FM and not addicted to (hmmm, let me think) cocaine or something

I used one of them tools once on FM09 and it instantly ruined the game for me.

if you are the obsessive type, those thing will ruin your enjoyment. Because you'll find yourself nitpicking every single detail that you have never seen before.

But if you really think about it, all the AI managers have access to all these hidden numbers. All the top teams have the full knowledge of a player's potential, and they snap up all the young newgens with 190+PA's, so is it really fair that the human manager should be left out of this party?

Every AI managers suddenly all hear a secret news about a wonderkid in some low division reserve team and go crazy to sign him, but we human managers are like

"uhhh........you reckon this player is a woderkid even though absolutely no other teams are interested in him?"

scout: "Sure. I have 20 in spotting player's potential."

....

then turns out he only has a PA of something like 150 and 5 consistency. lol

Of course it's unhealthy to take CA/PA values too seriously, but other things like personality and consistency/important matches are very helpful to know.

I mean it's just trippy that you keep blaming your tactics for your player's low rating, when actually he has a low consistency.

And the scouts don't always tell you these things. They only do when they feel like it.

Excellent post. Why on earth are some attributes "hidden". Surely, even a bad scout would be able to tell you if someone plays dirty for example.

i do use them occasionally because i find my scouts at no matter what club i'm at quite useless. they tell me one of my players is playing close to their potential and are not likely to improve but when i check out his ca its 40 points lower than his pa

i do use them occasionally because i find my scouts at no matter what club i'm at quite useless. they tell me one of my players is playing close to their potential and are not likely to improve but when i check out his ca its 40 points lower than his pa

It could just be that the scout doesn't believe that the player will improve to reach his maximum potential.

Did he ever make up those 40 points?

he's currently made up about 19 of the points so far. i'm in the 3rd season. i do see him improving until he gets to his max potential as he's still young at 24 years of age

Sounds like the scout was wrong then.

I have noticed that I get vastly different reports from my staff depending on their attributes. My top player is rated as 4/4 (stars, ca/pa) by my assistant with great attributes, 3/3 by my fitness coach with awful attributes and 4.5/4.5 by my attacking coach with reasonable attributes.

Last time I used those scouting tools was FM06 I think and it did completely ruin the game for me. Not knowing the exact CA and PA of any players is what makes the game actually fun IMO. Sure, AI managers do see them but they are totally clueless when it comes to player attributes and are not very intelligent at building squads. That more than makes up for AI's advantage of having access to player's CA and PA in my eyes.

I only every use them once I'm bored of the game. Usually download them around March time and see how quickly I can dominate the world of football. Other than that, I can't stand to use them for any reason.

Sounds like the scout was wrong then.

I have noticed that I get vastly different reports from my staff depending on their attributes. My top player is rated as 4/4 (stars, ca/pa) by my assistant with great attributes, 3/3 by my fitness coach with awful attributes and 4.5/4.5 by my attacking coach with reasonable attributes.

i looked at all the reports from my coaches/scouts and while it does range from 3.5 to 4 stars they give him they all say he's not likely to improve in the future even though his ability is continuing to rise at a steady rate. he is still 20 points away from reaching his maximum potential

never used them tbh

never used them tbh

Exactly the same!

Yes it makes the game a bit too easy, but I think it is a great way of introducing a complete newbie to the game. A lot of them are seriously put off by the difficulty of finding good players. So it's like a stepping stone where they constantly use the tools to build a super awesome team, then will get the hang of things and find out that it actually gets boring to play like that. And they will learn to play it without relying on it so much.

i looked at all the reports from my coaches/scouts and while it does range from 3.5 to 4 stars they give him they all say he's not likely to improve in the future even though his ability is continuing to rise at a steady rate. he is still 20 points away from reaching his maximum potential

How big a gap between the CA and PA does there need to be for the scouts to say he can improve?

I always learn my way around one of the editing tools each year in case its needed to rectify an issue or something. I remember a couple years back FM07 or 08, there was a problem where Rooney would get suspended in the second season on international duty and could never play again without using an editor to remove his ban.

On FM08 I had issues with Jo, he got one call up and was on permanent international duty (its a rare bug I've still seen around the game) and had to change his nationality to one for teams he wouldn't get into.

This year started a network game, and a friend realised come the start of the second season he didn't have any homegrown players at all. So used it to edit some in for him so that we wouldn't have to start again, will get the editor back and remove a few this summer as he's signed some homegrowns now and can get it back right.

I have always been able to resist the urge to use them, mainly because I learn them then delete it until its needed and just re-download it. I have found that, with an expansive enough scout network, you don't really need an editor anyway within 3 months I have got reports and shortlists of the most promising players coming through around the world. Just this summer (beginning of August) got a report through from a 20/20 coach with a french youngster rating him at 4 stars so instantly snapped him. Had I used an editor I'd known 4 weeks earlier yes, but its more fun like this, although I am beginning to suspect scouts are a bit too effective because my scouts are pulling up constant gems.

Nope not at all because I don't use them.

True that.

But if you really think about it, all the AI managers have access to all these hidden numbers. All the top teams have the full knowledge of a player's potential, and they snap up all the young newgens with 190+PA's, so is it really fair that the human manager should be left out of this party?

Last time I used those scouting tools was FM06 I think and it did completely ruin the game for me. Not knowing the exact CA and PA of any players is what makes the game actually fun IMO. Sure, AI managers do see them but they are totally clueless when it comes to player attributes and are not very intelligent at building squads. That more than makes up for AI's advantage of having access to player's CA and PA in my eyes.

AI managers can't see PA, they only see an estimate.

I've only used it to see the PAs of people I've already signed. It lets me see how good a scout I personally am.

I find stuff like Genie Scout helpful. Because even with a world class scouting network, the other big teams always sign regen gems before my scouts find them.

So they help make up for this "flaw" in the game.

I wouldn't like it if FM were made to block these scouting and editing tools.

I find stuff like Genie Scout helpful. Because even with a world class scouting network, the other big teams always sign regen gems before my scouts find them.

So they help make up for this "flaw" in the game.

I wouldn't like it if FM were made to block these scouting and editing tools.

Pure poop. I've always consistently managed to find the highest potential players, and sign them before anyone else.

Obviously they will ruin FM IF you use them . Just delete and don't use them

Pure poop. I've always consistently managed to find the highest potential players, and sign them before anyone else.

Same here, I've found that with the scouting stars system it is a lot easier to find talented players than it used to be.

I remember back with FM06, it would actually be a nice surprise to see a player become a 'wonderkid'. Now pretty much every young player I sign becomes one.

No they haven't ruined the game, how could they? If you agree with them, use them, if you don't, then don't. Simple really.

@ the OP, YOU have ruined your game for yourself, the scouting tool isn't to blame!

Sancitmonious post of the year!

Pure poop. I've always consistently managed to find the highest potential players, and sign them before anyone else.

Horse manure. Try it with a less reputed team. Bull crap.

Horse manure. Try it with a less reputed team. Bull crap.

Im playing as Newcastle so............... not the highest reputation club i could manage.

What, so your saying that a highly rated player, such as............. Jack Wilshere for example, would have gone to say Bournemouth (again an example) over Arsenal? Get real!

Its the same at higher rep clubs too! IIRC Aaron Ramsey chose Arsenal over Man Utd because of Arsenal's youth policy.

Pure poop. I've always consistently managed to find the highest potential players, and sign them before anyone else.

Er, you'd only KNOW that they were the highest potential players if you had used a scouting tool yourself. So poop yourself.

They did for me. I overcame this by stopping using them. You get a lot of detail from scouts and coaches now so it feels a lot more like a level playing field.

Er, you'd only KNOW that they were the highest potential players if you had used a scouting tool yourself. So poop yourself.

Obviously i cant be 100% vertain, but all the big teams like Real Madrid, Barca, Man Utd, Chelsea, Juve, AC, Inter were after them after i had signed them so thats a pretty good indicator i guess.

Obviously i cant be 100% vertain, but all the big teams like Real Madrid, Barca, Man Utd, Chelsea, Juve, AC, Inter were after them after i had signed them so thats a pretty good indicator i guess.

Right. Thank you for acknowledging that.

In MY experience (which was what I was talking about), it is teams like Inter etc who have already signed a quality regen (which my scouts never found), or are already tracking them (and my scouts hadn't found them yet).

I find these quality regens with scouts or editors so I'm 100% certain they are the very best of the best.

Right. Thank you for acknowledging that.

In MY experience (which was what I was talking about), it is teams like Inter etc who have already signed a quality regen (which my scouts never found), or are already tracking them (and my scouts hadn't found them yet).

I find these quality regens with scouts or editors so I'm 100% certain they are the very best of the best.

But would you acknowledge that if teams of the stature i mentioned are chasing 15,16,17 year olds that i have not long signed, then ive not done too bad without the aid of any editors ar anything?

But would you acknowledge that if teams of the stature i mentioned are chasing 15,16,17 year olds that i have not long signed, then ive not done too bad without the aid of any editors ar anything?

I certainly wouldn't call it "pure poop" because I'd give you the benefit of the doubt that it is your experience.

How big a gap between the CA and PA does there need to be for the scouts to say he can improve?

I dont know the magic number but at 40 points they certainly should have been saying he can improve. The difference between 140ca and 180pa is quite large imo. I think even at 19 points it should be expected they tell me he can still improve. Its kind of misleading otherwise I think and a bit inaccurate and therefor not reliable. Thats why unfortunately I rely on using one of those 'cheat' 3rd party programs

I dont know the magic number but at 40 points they certainly should have been saying he can improve. The difference between 140ca and 180pa is quite large imo. I think even at 19 points it should be expected they tell me he can still improve. Its kind of misleading otherwise I think and a bit inaccurate and therefor not reliable. Thats why unfortunately I rely on using one of those 'cheat' 3rd party programs

Fair enough.

For me, I need that element of risk and surprise. It is the backup players who turn out to be world class and the players I make the mistake of selling who go on to great things that keeps the game interesting for me.

makes sense, thats the way i used to play at first but i kinda went the opposite way of you since i like to see exactly how well my players are progressing and how much further they can achieve

Sancitmonious post of the year!

What the hell does that mean? :o

What the hell does that mean? :o

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sanctimonious