Everton is better than Benfica in this DB!!

Wow! I dont know how this happened, but Everton have alot more players in the CA 150' than Benficas has (6 - 2)!

Wow... what was the result again betweens the 2 teams this year...

I buy this game every year, but i allways have to wait for individual updates in order to have justice with teams and players.

Is there a way to have a professional update team?? I dont mind paying for it, but at least it is accurate.

Sorry for being so candid, but its allways the same here!

Now check how many of Everton's players with higher than 150 CA were playing when Benfica played Everton

i honestly think that was a 1 off result. everton have been in bad form and had a lot of players injured. and was they away from home? a fully fit everton team on form would have got a result away and certainly won at home

I am assuming your beef is that the Benfica players are underrated, not that Everton's are overrated. If so, go to the Portuguese Data Issues thead and suggest improvements. Though I have to say, 2 players with 150 CA for Benfica does not sound particularly out of whack to me.

Totally irrelevant and illogical comparison mm007. Benfica fan by any chance?

What does the result between Everton and Benfica have to do with justifying the CA of players? Do you often base a teams ability on 1 match and a players ability on 1 match?

For the record, Everton players above CA 150 (with PA's only slightly higher than 150) are

If anyones been watching the Premier League, they'll know that it's a fair reflection of the players ability. Go and moan in the Benfica Data thread if you're unhappy. Knee-jerk threads full of nonsense only add to the many nonsensical threads already in GD.

That cannot be an excuse... never was never will be... Benfica played against Porto without 4 starting players... and Porto with full power, and they still won!

Point being is that, i believe SI's system of giving Teams extra points for playing in certain leagues is not correct.

On the other hand, Benfica do have a better than Everton, juts like Man U are better than Benfica... i think thats very easy to take as fact.

pointless article, Everton played Benfica with a severe injury list and ecspecially defensively were weak playing right backs at centre back. Also Benfica were in a rich vein of form having made a great start to the season, Everton were in all sorts of trouble with injuries and were on a bad run of form. It was almost an Everton reserve side that played Benfica. Its like saying that Besiktas should be better than Man Utd because they beat them at Old Trafford. Everton have finished fifth in the worlds best league the last two seasons, Benfica havnt even won the Portugese Superleague where most teams are championship quality. Author of this article needs a football lesson i think.

Totally irrelevant and illogical comparison mm007. Benfica fan by any chance?

What does the result between Everton and Benfica have to do with justifying the CA of players? Do you often base a teams ability on 1 match and a players ability on 1 match?

For the record, Everton players above CA 150 (with PA's only slightly higher than 150) are

Arteta, Yakubu, Yobo, Pienaar, Howard, Jagielka, Distin, Cahill

If anyones been watching the Premier League, they'll know that it's a fair reflection of the players ability. Go and moan in the Benfica Data thread if you're unhappy. Knee-jerk threads full of nonsense only add to the many nonsensical threads already in GD.

For the record, it was 2 matches! 7 - 0. If that illogical than i dont know whats logic anymore... if by comparing 2 teams by their results when they played is not a measure, than everything else becomes very subjective... better use the editor and change everything!! lol

That cannot be an excuse... never was never will be... Benfica played against Porto without 4 starting players... and Porto with full power, and they still won!

Point being is that, i believe SI's system of giving Teams extra points for playing in certain leagues is not correct.

On the other hand, Benfica do have a better than Everton, juts like Man U are better than Benfica... i think thats very easy to take as fact.

SI's system? It's not SI's system.

SI appoint what i beleive are fairly independent Researchers to clubs. Those Researchers are the ones who assess the Benfica squad and rate them accordingly.

You could have put your arguement across much better, bringing the Everton-Benfica match into your argument didn't support it at all.

For the record, it was 2 matches! 7 - 0. If that illogical than i dont know whats logic anymore... if by comparing 2 teams by their results when they played is not a measure, than everything else becomes very subjective... better use the editor and change everything!! lol

I'm well aware it was 2-0 and 5-0, i was there for the 2-0 game.

You're more than welcome to change the players abilities based on 2 matches but asking anyone else too will only draw criticisms because it's a flawed argument.

Researchers rate the players based on their games over a season, generally more than 40 games in that season and is a much more reliable approach than simply watching Benfica win 5-0 and then promptly reducing the CA of Evertons squad.

Quite ridiculous.

Totally irrelevant and illogical comparison mm007. Benfica fan by any chance?

What does the result between Everton and Benfica have to do with justifying the CA of players? Do you often base a teams ability on 1 match and a players ability on 1 match?

For the record, Everton players above CA 150 (with PA's only slightly higher than 150) are

Arteta, Yakubu, Yobo, Pienaar, Howard, Jagielka, Distin, Cahill

If anyones been watching the Premier League, they'll know that it's a fair reflection of the players ability. Go and moan in the Benfica Data thread if you're unhappy. Knee-jerk threads full of nonsense only add to the many nonsensical threads already in GD.

i honestly think that was a 1 off result. everton have been in bad form and had a lot of players injured. and was they away from home? a fully fit everton team on form would have got a result away and certainly won at home

Sorry, was 2 matches!

For the record, it was 2 matches! 7 - 0. If that illogical than i dont know whats logic anymore... if by comparing 2 teams by their results when they played is not a measure, than everything else becomes very subjective... better use the editor and change everything!! lol

Of course it's subjective. There are no empirical measures for determining ability. Not even stats do some players justice.

Everton's backline in the first game consisted of one natural CB, a debutant right back - who was playing left back, a right midfielder playing right back, and a right back playing CB. Everton played 4-4-2, which is not Everton's natural formation. And they played a combative attacking midfielder at right wing.

If Everton could've played their first team of Howard, Baines, Yobo, Jagielka, Neville/Neill/Heitinga, Bilyaletdinov, Fellaini, Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar and Saha then the result would have been different.

As it stands 4 of the players I named above played in the 5-0 demolition.

The fact you're even considering basing a measure of ability on an injury fuelled poor run of form kind of sums up how ridiculous your points are.

I guess the fundamental problem here is that Porto, Sporting and Benfica are underrated because of the league they play in.. Portuguese league is indeed crappy, but the better teams of Portugal regularly play well the bigger teams in England, and are definitely better than teams 5-10 of england (anyone who can care enough to look at the records over the last 10 years would find that out)... but FM does not reflect this reality at all.

I'm well aware it was 2-0 and 5-0, i was there for the 2-0 game.

You're more than welcome to change the players abilities based on 2 matches but asking anyone else too will only draw criticisms because it's a flawed argument.

Researchers rate the players based on their games over a season, generally more than 40 games in that season and is a much more reliable approach than simply watching Benfica win 5-0 and then promptly reducing the CA of Evertons squad.

Quite ridiculous.

I can see that ur Everton fan. Hard to admit the result i understand... i probably would have the same re-action! But numbers are numbers, and results are results...

I agree with u though that the researchers should look more into this - and that is my point here... i actually dig Everton, this was taken as an example of how the reseacrch needs to be improve for some countries... or get another system.

And btw., dont point this as ridiculous point only because u were frustrated with the result

Newsflash - the Europa League is a bit of a joke to the clubs in England. Its more of an annoyance than anything for the clubs that are in it. Benfica mauled Evertons reserves/youths... full strength, injury free and motivated... Everton would wipe the floor with Benfica.

Lool, Everton would wipe benfica, just like Liverpool wiped benfica 4 years ago or Middlesborough and Newcastle wiped sporting..

Oh deary me.

You beleive that the Benfica squad is underated. Why couldn't you just say that in the first place?

Lool, Everton would wipe benfica, just like Liverpool wiped benfica 4 years ago or Middlesborough and Newcastle wiped sporting..

Would, could, may... that doesnt exist my friend... just theories! Easy as that...

again, my point is not to lower Evertons players,. but to improve teams from "lower' leagues who actually deserve it!

Ability of the players is not everything. There are so many factors to take into consideration - ability of non-playing staff, form, injuries, morale, fatigue etc.

Although Everton may have more players with over 150 CA, it doesn't mean to say that Benfica should have more because they beat them twice, because their squad may contain a lot of good players that contribute to their success without being quality compared to Everton , or even at that moment in time.

Teams containing star individuals doesn't guarantee success over sides without them, look at Newcastle getting relegated having Owen, Martins, Given, Bassong and many more in their side last season.

Also, look at Birmingham flying high at the moment, or even Hull last season before the massive blip

I did talk about SI' s research system is lacking... its like the ref's - they should use modern tech to modernize it!!! They just dont wanna do it... dont know why!

For the record, it was 2 matches! 7 - 0. If that illogical than i dont know whats logic anymore... if by comparing 2 teams by their results when they played is not a measure, than everything else becomes very subjective... better use the editor and change everything!! lol

I don't think that two matches aren't nowhere near enough to serve as a basis for comparison between two teams. Take two examples:

Croatia defeated England 5-2 in 2 matches. One year later players were practically the same (if anything, Croatia's key players improved as most of them transferred from the poor Croatian league to the Premiership) and it was 9-1 in England's favour.

Liverpool defeated Man Utd twice in the last season, finished with 2 defeats. This season Liverpool is the same team minus Alonso & Arbeloa, plus Johnson, and nowhere near the same form and are playing very poorly and already accumulated 7 defeats.

I can see that ur Everton fan. Hard to admit the result i understand... i probably would have the same re-action! But numbers are numbers, and results are results...

I agree with u though that the researchers should look more into this - and that is my point here... i actually dig Everton, this was taken as an example of how the reseacrch needs to be improve for some countries... or get another system.

And btw., dont point this as ridiculous point only because u were frustrated with the result

I wasn't frustrated at the result. I wrote it off before it even started. Like every other sane football fan.

Your point IS ridiculous. You can't seriously base CA calculations on two games, both of which were against injury ridden sides. I don't think you honestly appreciated the severity of the injury crisis. Imagine for instance, that Everton's first team played a Benfica side missing Peixoto, Luisao, Pereira, Di Maria, Aimar, Ramires and Cardozo. Those are the equivalant that Everton were missing, along with some of their backups. Everton's full first team would rip that a Benfica side missing those players a new one, no question.

By your logic, anytime for instance Stoke beat Man Utd. that Stoke's players all have to be of Man Utd's standard. They don't, crises and freak results happen.

everton are always overrated

since i remember playing fm and cm

I understand what he's trying to say, but he's not backing his argument up with anything.

mm007, if you are unhappy with Benfica's squad, then you need to raise the issue in the Benfica Data Thread and explain why you think there is a problem, without mentioning 2 games against Everton.

If you keep mentioning Everton and the 2 Europa matches, then it just looks very silly.

everton are always overrated

since i remember playing fm and cm

Troll much?

In what way would you say they're overated? Most of the squad has CA's of

Hardly overated is it? Given that those CA ranges would fall under mid-table to Europe teams

Lool, Everton would wipe benfica, just like Liverpool wiped benfica 4 years ago or Middlesborough and Newcastle wiped sporting..

I wasn't frustrated at the result. I wrote it off before it even started. Like every other sane football fan.

Your point IS ridiculous. You can't seriously base CA calculations on two games, both of which were against injury ridden sides. I don't think you honestly appreciated the severity of the injury crisis. Imagine for instance, that Everton's first team played a Benfica side missing Peixoto, Luisao, Pereira, Di Maria, Aimar, Ramires and Cardozo. Those are the equivalant that Everton were missing, along with some of their backups. Everton's full first team would rip that a Benfica side missing those players a new one, no question.

By your logic, anytime for instance Stoke beat Man Utd. that Stoke's players all have to be of Man Utd's standard. They don't, crises and freak results happen.

You see, now u r having a completly childish point. How can you affirm that Everton would beat Benfica, without having them playing???? I mean, get over it. Ex. Benfica played Porto without 4 starters!! Porto full strenght, and they won!

Again, lets stay objective here. Benfica have players playing for good south american National Teams... i dont think Everton has that many... so comparing both teams, many indicators point that Benfica have better players. Just the researchers didnt think so - because of the silly rule of having x-tra points for a certain league!

You just won't give up

Your issue is that Benfica are underated. We understand this. But why do you persist in saying that Benfica are better, or Everton don't have as many good players? That's a different topic alltogether.

For what it's worth, Everton have 8 regular 1st choice International players and a couple of others who have been involved in the past.

Pointless thread, if you think Benfica are underated bring it up in the "Football Manager 2010 Data Issues" don't just go making complaints because you support the team. As said it was a one of result with Everton with injury problems.

FWIW: I think Everton have a better team and I support neither.

Again, to every Everton fan who is too sensitive about this issue: Everton was only used as a benchmarking base of comparision, to show that the SI's CA / PA system needs a deeper and more professional look! Again, its like the referee's system nowadays.... u can keep on defending as it is, but then u better start to play "Handball" and enjoy France in the WC!

More, I think its a great part of the game to have accurate databases... again, i dont mind paying a bit extra for that.

Again, lets stay objective here. Benfica have players playing for good south american National Teams... i dont think Everton has that many... so comparing both teams, many indicators point that Benfica have better players. Just the researchers didnt think so - because of the silly rule of having x-tra points for a certain league!

I see your point and I do feel that the difference in quality between the English big 4 and the clubs just behind them (Everton, Villa) is bigger than FM gives them credit for, but the big conspiracy, the 'extra points for certain leagues' you suggest, simply doesn't exist. SI wants a balanced game, and the reseachers are fans of the clubs they research, so nobody has a vested interest in deliberately underrating your club.

I understand what he's trying to say, but he's not backing his argument up with anything.

mm007, if you are unhappy with Benfica's squad, then you need to raise the issue in the Benfica Data Thread and explain why you think there is a problem, without mentioning 2 games against Everton.

If you keep mentioning Everton and the 2 Europa matches, then it just looks very silly.

I see your point and I do feel that the difference in quality between the English big 4 and the clubs just behind them (Everton, Villa) is bigger than FM gives them credit for, but the big conspiracy, the 'extra points for certain leagues' you suggest, simply doesn't exist. SI wants a balanced game, and the reseachers are fans of the clubs they research, so nobody has a vested interest in deliberately underrating your club.

Howdy, wow a different perspective here... someone from the continent for a change!

Actually there is a 'conspiracy'... lol - as far as i know players from Bigger leagues get xtra points for being in that league... i remember reading that before.

And i agree with u about SI wanting a balanced game... because alot of their revenues come from outside, thats why i am approaching this issue. We gotta give credit where there is value...

Completely unlogical. It is the team reputation - not the players, that can be edited after the teams performance.

That cannot be an excuse... never was never will be... Benfica played against Porto without 4 starting players... and Porto with full power, and they still won!

Point being is that, i believe SI's system of giving Teams extra points for playing in certain leagues is not correct.

On the other hand, Benfica do have a better than Everton, juts like Man U are better than Benfica... i think thats very easy to take as fact.

ok i'll take your theory on board. im off to the fulham data issues thread to complain that bobby zamora doesnt have a CA of 170 and a PA of 190 seeing as in 1 game he ran man utd ragged :confused:

i wish you would stop saying its "SI's CA / PA system". its not! as far as i can tell, each big team has its own independent researcher, with its own thread on the site, where that teams issues are discusses. The only people rating the benfica players for the database are the researcher himself (who has the final say) and the people that bring up issues, whether it be good or bad in the thread. SI simply judge that they have appointed someone trustworthy enough to make an honest judgement of the team given all the issues raised.

Like it has been said before, if you have issues with the benfica team being underrated then go to the benfica thread and complain. But at least back yourself up with a valid point. Have benfica never been knocked out of a cup by a lot weaker team after playing a weakened team? have they never been beaten my a team much lower than them due to a bad run of form? This is exactly what people are getting at. Your using the everton games as a basis of an argument when it was inevitable that everton would lose. especially away due to the team everton had to field. As somebody has already said, would you really expect benfica with 8 first team starters missing to have played away to a full strength everton team and not get a beating?

I really hope benfica now have a bad run of injuries and are spanked. im sure you'll be the first one on here protesting that it was only because of injuries and the result wasnt a true reflection on the team. karma is a bitch.

And by the way. Im a Man Utd fan not Everton. I just dont have my one dimensional glasses on and can see the games for what they were. I should know. Man Utd are going through the same injury crisis at the moment. Im yet to see a Fulham fan come on here saying that their players are underrated because they tore Man Utd apart at home

The ME designer supports Everton

Fixed to win..

Geez...

If TWO GAMES, of a Round Robin competition while we're at it, are enough to cry for a total reworking of two teams' attributes, then the researchers would have to alter the database every other week.

Is Everton overrated? Maybe so, but just like plenty of other teams, and not just English ones [Genoa winning cups and leagues makes zero sense...]

But as players' ratings and attributes are an approximate and subjective conversion of real-life events-skills into numerical values, there always will be discussion about players being under- or overrated.

CA/PA around 150 means "average-to-good EPL player", and it looks like Everton aren't filled with many players above said level. Overrated is not the right word here.

Benfica's best players are two aging "Top Club rejects", then there are a bunch of decent prospect who are either unproven at an higher level, or who didn't make it there. And the rest is a good side for the Portuguese League, but with all due respect, it's basically a Three-Team League.

We could just post here all day about our favourite team/players deserving 160CA or something like that... But if there's no good ground for such claims, it's just childish fanboyism

Well you see your problem here is that.... benfica are crap, deal with it.

Geez...

If TWO GAMES, of a Round Robin competition while we're at it, are enough to cry for a total reworking of two teams' attributes, then the researchers would have to alter the database every other week.

Is Everton overrated? Maybe so, but just like plenty of other teams, and not just English ones [Genoa winning cups and leagues makes zero sense...]

But as players' ratings and attributes are an approximate and subjective conversion of real-life events-skills into numerical values, there always will be discussion about players being under- or overrated.

CA/PA around 150 means "average-to-good EPL player", and it looks like Everton aren't filled with many players above said level. Overrated is not the right word here.

Benfica's best players are two aging "Top Club rejects", then there are a bunch of decent prospect who are either unproven at an higher level, or who didn't make it there. And the rest is a good side for the Portuguese League, but with all due respect, it's basically a Three-Team League.

We could just post here all day about our favourite team/players deserving 160CA or something like that... But if there's no good ground for such claims, it's just childish fanboyism

well said

Well you see your problem here is that.... benfica are crap, deal with it.

So is Everton tbh. Porto ftw ! (this thread should be closed...same thing has been repeated over and over..)

wow Benfica had 2 good games against a superior team, get over it.

Everton are not crap :S they are a very strong side when everyone is fully fit, they have one of, if not the best english manger (i think hes english anyway haha) and a tiny transfer buget. with the money everton have they should be near relegation but they put up a strong fight to brake the top for nearly every season.

Everton are not crap :S they are a very strong side when everyone is fully fit, they have one of, if not the best english manger (i think hes english anyway haha) and a tiny transfer buget. with the money everton have they should be near relegation but they put up a strong fight to brake the top for nearly every season.

somebody interviewed david moyes once after a game and said he's one of the best up and coming young english managers. He went MAD! because he's Scottish haha