Superkeeper is really disrespectful to FM players

It's really a obivious problem in 10.2 match engine, I guess most players found it after 5-10 matches. Come on, it's been so many years and the game's match engine still rely on such a childish trick like this or let the ball keep hitting bar/post? Did you really test on the game engine before release 10.2?

IF you did not even test for that engine before release it. Well it's really sad.

IF you tested and did not find it, it means you did not do your job well.

IF you tested, found it and decided to release the patch without fix such a big problem....

Well if it's not disrespectful to players, then tell me what is?

I could argue that u are being disrespectful to SI... same general idea....

personally i don't really experience this "superkeeper" issue, so can't really comment

There's only one type of chance the keeper saves overly efficiently, which is the no-angled one on one. Unless you are playing a tactic that generates an unfeasibly large number of these (which relates to a slight marking issue) then you won't see any super keepers. One on ones at an angle are buried pretty regularly.

I suggest just accepting that straight one on ones are not that good a chance and try to look at creating other types of opportunity. It is not an ideal solution, but it keeps the game fun and enjoyable. These types of chances should be extremely difficult to create in real life. The chance creation is the bug rather than the goalkeeper saves.

When pointing fingers at SI and the testers, you'd do well to remember that such issues can be knock ons of each build and not deliberate attempts to balance things out. This type of thing is likely to have been picked up late in testing, meaning it could not be fixed due to pending deadlines. If everything had to be perfect, nothing would ever get released and you'd have no game to play.

My Valencia's tactic is like what they played in real life, lots of short passes, find the space then send through balls. But there is no reason to set super keeper.

Almost everyone I know that played 10.2 mentioned this problem. So it's not about build.

10.2 is a build. As I mentioned before, as long as the one on ones aren't at a straight angle to the keeper or the result of a long run, they are scored at a perfectly acceptable rate. IF you are only creating such types, you will need to change things around a little bit.

What do you mean"Straight Angle"? The keeper will move when one on one chance is formed, every angle has a pretty low rate.

If the FC has no angle to the goal or the keeper and is basically opposite them both.

Most of the one on ones are like this. It's a very big issue, why SI did not fix such a big problem?

The main issue is the defensive marking that allows it to happen, not the keeping. If you are creating loads, it is because you are exploiting that flaw, not because you are playing really well. It will have been a knock on from a late ME build that would have missed deadlines.

These types of one on ones are hardly ever created in real life. Just regard them as half chances and be happy when you score one. The rest of the attacking/defensive play is fine.

What are you talking about? It's what they play in real life and really successful. It's what Valencia, Spain and Barcelona played.

The rest is fine? With a super keeper, there's almost no way to create an effective attacking method.

In real life it is virtually impossible to regularly split the DCs in the manner TBs can do in 10.2. Given that this is the bug, it is difficult to model keeper or forward behaviour in these scenarios, as they aren't supposed to be happening.

Basically, if the FC receives a TB between the DCs and either runs and shoots or turns and shoots, he is likely to miss as the way the chance is created is a bug, and thus everything that follows it is also imperfect. If the TB is angled through the channels, then the player is far less likely to miss as this is a realistic chance type.

Are you sure your players aren't shooting at the keeper?

Basically, if the FC receives a TB between the DCs and either runs and shoots or turns and shoots, he is likely to miss as the way the chance is created is a bug, and thus everything that follows it is also imperfect. If the TB is angled through the channels, then the player is far less likely to miss as this is a realistic chance type.

From a tactical perspective then, how do we go about increasing the number of angled though balls as opposed to straight through balls?

playing wide with wingers probably..

But then in my Barca save Xavi is my advanced playmaker and he basically made 1 assist per game and won every award he could get his hands on, footballer of the year, player of the year, euro footballer of the year, midfielder of the year...

So I felt sorry for Messi for missing out on his award. I think I'll change the tactic to involve him more now lol

I've not seen any superkeepers. I've not seen the balls hitting woodwork 5 times a match. I'm really happy with the new patch. My strikers are scoring - even 1v1s at a straight angle. As long as they don't get too close to the keeper, that is.

Just my 2 cents

yeah also for me the strikers are scoring pretty regularly. There are pockets of matches where they seem to miss just about everything, but those situations also happen irl. Could be unlucky and had the 'real' attribute reduced badly for the match day.

From a tactical perspective then, how do we go about increasing the number of angled though balls as opposed to straight through balls?

Depends on the players you have. I'd avoid the Run onto Ball TMS to a non channeled FC in a narrow formation though.

You need to get the ball in the right position to play the angles in, so you need to ensure your creative midfielders are regularly able to play balls into the channels between the DCs and FBs. If they are launching deep balls down the middle or you are trying to keep your FC very central by removing the 'Channels' PPM, then you'll struggle to convert. In real life, the defence will mop everything up. In FM, they mop a lot up but are sometime unrealistically split. However, the FC usually ends up having to shoot at pace when directly facing the keeper, which is not an easy chance.

I could argue that u are being disrespectful to SI... same general idea....

personally i don't really experience this "superkeeper" issue, so can't really comment

My thoughts exactly. I haven't had any problems with any super keepers either.

Well, most of the angled through ball also got blocked.

So, should he avoid the 4-4-2 diamond with 2 MC's, since it's a tactic that relies on creating chances trough the middle? Is it better to play with wingers?

Couldn't this be fixed by the user by asking the player to lob ball (totti scores a bunch that way) or round the keeper?

Depends on the players you have. I'd avoid the Run onto Ball TMS to a non channeled FC in a narrow formation though.

You need to get the ball in the right position to play the angles in, so you need to ensure your creative midfielders are regularly able to play balls into the channels between the DCs and FBs. If they are launching deep balls down the middle or you are trying to keep your FC very central by removing the 'Channels' PPM, then you'll struggle to convert. In real life, the defence will mop everything up. In FM, they mop a lot up but are sometime unrealistically split. However, the FC usually ends up having to shoot at pace when directly facing the keeper, which is not an easy chance.

I’m very interested in this ‘suggestion’. Would you say this is one of the reasons why the narrow formations (ie 4312) are working so well? In this formation both the mc’s and AMC are in good positions to play through balls between the DC and FB to strikers with ‘channels’ wide play selected. In my Arsenal save I’ve considered (but not really tried yet) playing the strikers (or at least one) in a wider starting position (ie more in the wide-fwd position rather than central striker), but still with narrow playing width (ie so they don’t start out too wide) and with wide role set to ‘runs channels’. I guess what I’m trying to replicate is kind of how Henry used to run onto angled through balls from a wide-ish position on the left. Only difference is I’d be doing this in a 4312 rather than a 442. Do you think this could be set up to work well?

so, now it's beat the match engine straight forward. No Valencia, Barca, Inter, the opposition doesn't matter, we must find a tactic that suits the ME. Great..

So because you scored loads due to a bug of longshots, you complained? now your complaining about GK saving shots? So you would prefer 4-4 games ever other week than realistic 1-0/1-1 games? If you prefer the longshot bug but want the new patch edit EVER goalkeeper in the world and make them rubbish.

I like it this way better than scoring too many goals. I'm averaging about 2.6 goals per game and I'm sure those with an awesome tactic would get past 3.0, but I like it when it's not too easy.

Couldn't this be fixed by the user by asking the player to lob ball (totti scores a bunch that way) or round the keeper?

Torres already has the lob PPM but I've yet to see him use it in a 10.2 1v1 situation.

oh well.. who cares... online call of duty here i go..

i'm sticking with the real life football for now.. cheers

so, now it's beat the match engine straight forward. No Valencia, Barca, Inter, the opposition doesn't matter, we must find a tactic that suits the ME. Great..

That's not what I said. TBs creating one on ones straight down the middle are incredibly rare in real life, but due to an issue with DC marking are much more common in FM than they should be. Trying to create them is taking advantage of a slight ME flaw. Because they are unusual in real life, there is no method of judging how good a chance they actually are. In the FM ME, they tend to be hit straight at the keeper, usually because the player is travelling full pelt or has turn quickly turn and shoot.

Given that they are unusual in real life, we cannot be sure they wouldn't also be saved regularly in real life. It seems to me that such chances should be quite difficult, as the player has no angle to work with nor time to create one. That they are being created too often is an issue. That they are being saved a lot arguably isn't. IF you try to take advantage of the ME flaw and design tactics that create an awful lot of those, you also need to accept that many will be saved. However, if you create a tactic that generates more realistic chances, scoring ratios will be fine. That's not about beating the ME, it is about understanding football.

There are a lot more point-blank chances created in FM than in real life. Also, as WWfan says, a lot of them are head on, straight at the keeper.

Ask any keeper what he'd rather face - a shot from five yards or a shot from ten yards, and anyone who's spent time between the sticks at whatever level would rather have a shot from five yards or less. It's easier to stop, easier to close the angle, and gives the opposing player less time to compose himself.

I have David Villa set as a poacher and he is frequently through on goal. When he goes head on direct at the keeper, he usually gets too close and has his shot saved, but when coming in from an angle, he usually pings it in the corner.

It's frustrating in the extreme, I can't deny it. But it's the number of chances created and the nature of those chances that are the problem. The overall number of goals scored is fine.

would the "round keeper" PPM help here then? I am playing a 4-2-1-2-1 narrow formation which is working well apart from the missed 1-on-1's..

no offence but im pretty sure its just you.... Im finding it rediculously easy in 10.2 to score goals...

little example

Kalou being my only transfer this season btw( got him offered)

Also, morale and form were far from optimal with both these matches. Having lost 4 matches back to back at the start of the season i had half the squad lose confidence in me so ....

and tbh i dont really see this one happening either

so, now it's beat the match engine straight forward. No Valencia, Barca, Inter, the opposition doesn't matter, we must find a tactic that suits the ME. Great..

FM has always been like that. Most FM super players arent actually tactically intelligent when it comes to football, they just know the bugs and exploit it.\

LOL @ the Zaragoza result of 9-0. Firstly, didn't Tottenham score 9 vs Stoke? Also only this week, Zaragoza were hit for 6 by Real and also were hit by 6 from Barcelona? I agree, there aren't as many goals, but the game is pretty spot on with terms of engines.

FM has always been like that. Most FM super players arent actually tactically intelligent when it comes to football, they just know the bugs and exploit it.\

LOL @ the Zaragoza result of 9-0. Firstly, didn't Tottenham score 9 vs Stoke? Also only this week, Zaragoza were hit for 6 by Real and also were hit by 6 from Barcelona? I agree, there aren't as many goals, but the game is pretty spot on with terms of engines.

I think you are getting me wrong, im not saying it isnt fine, im actually agreeing with you (read ur other thread) that this ME is actually by far one of the best we've had for ages.

And no bugs/exploits used...

One thing which seems related to this is crosses into the middle, Oscar Cardozo, Nikola Zigic etc were all deadly for me as the big targetman up until 10.2 was let out. It's basically:

Cross in - Cardozo/Zigic (rightfully so, no exploits here, they are both beasts in the air) get to the ball in the centre - Keepers hands.

Don't know what happened to heading it across goal or at one of the corners or something, but I haven't had Cardozo or Zigic score from a cross since then and have had to drop both permanently.

Also, Stoke beat Tottenham 1-0 after we slayughtered them all game and should have had 9

I read the title as "Shakespeare is really disrespectful to FM players"

This "two central defenders too easily split" cost me my season in multiplay! Went from rock solid defensively and top of the league to 6 poor results in a row post patch. Also lost Van Der Vaart for 9 months first game of 10.2! lovely!

How can "a build" need you to "attempt not to create direct 1v1's with their keeper" as a strategy. I don't know if i'm alone in feeling that this just doesn't feel like football anymore, it's more a tweak this touch that find something that works... but none of the actual settings seem to relate to reality. The general logic has gone out of the game.

I think you are getting me wrong, im not saying it isnt fine, im actually agreeing with you (read ur other thread) that this ME is actually by far one of the best we've had for ages.

And no bugs/exploits used...

Sorry I did not mean to word my post as I did. I was only commenting in jest to the fact that while your games had a lot of goals, the actual score lines were similar to real life. The other portion of my post was not directed at you. :thup:

So because you scored loads due to a bug of longshots, you complained? now your complaining about GK saving shots? So you would prefer 4-4 games ever other week than realistic 1-0/1-1 games? If you prefer the longshot bug but want the new patch edit EVER goalkeeper in the world and make them rubbish.

Well I DON'T like 10.1's longshots, I agree they should make change.

BUT not just make keepers crazy saving almost all the chances.

My striker Villa scored a lot of goals, but in important matches the keeper problem really caused trouble.

This "two central defenders too easily split" cost me my season in multiplay! Went from rock solid defensively and top of the league to 6 poor results in a row post patch. Also lost Van Der Vaart for 9 months first game of 10.2! lovely!

How can "a build" need you to "attempt not to create direct 1v1's with their keeper" as a strategy. I don't know if i'm alone in feeling that this just doesn't feel like football anymore, it's more a tweak this touch that find something that works... but none of the actual settings seem to relate to reality. The general logic has gone out of the game.

That's the point, you are saying not to create through balls and one on one chances? IS that football?

I've found that having "Places Shots" helps convert some of these chances, although I haven't really noticed a "Superkeeper" issue per se. What I have noticed is that, as a keeper's match rating goes up, so does his chance for pulling off some fantastic saves. This has kind of always been present, though; once the keeper's rating is somewhere around 7.3-7.5, he's going to be really hard to score on. It's that way for both teams, though, so I think it's intentional.

I read the title as "Shakespeare is really disrespectful to FM players"

Tbf, he was...

I've yet to experience any super-keeping and I've almost completed a whole season of 10.2

Okay I've just had 2 games that really discredit the "Superkeeper" argument. The first was a 6-0 win in my favour followed by a 4-3 win in my favour as well. Now if that's "superkeepers" well I'm a monkey's uncle.

I've yet to see Torres lob a keeper full stop.

But this superkeepers idea is just nonsense, and pointless threads should simply be closed.

Okay I've just had 2 games that really discredit the "Superkeeper" argument. The first was a 6-0 win in my favour followed by a 4-3 win in my favour as well. Now if that's "superkeepers" well I'm a monkey's uncle.

I agree; I've had far too many games where I've scored relatively handily since the patch. In fact, I think I might be scoring MORE since the patch.

and tbh i dont really see this one happening either

If you recall the Quarter final at Old Trafford back in 2003, it was an even more open game. United won 4-3 but got beat 7-4 on aggregate! So not as unrealistic as it may seem!

It's really a obivious problem in 10.2 match engine, I guess most players found it after 5-10 matches. Come on, it's been so many years and the game's match engine still rely on such a childish trick like this or let the ball keep hitting bar/post? Did you really test on the game engine before release 10.2?

IF you did not even test for that engine before release it. Well it's really sad.

IF you tested and did not find it, it means you did not do your job well.

IF you tested, found it and decided to release the patch without fix such a big problem....

Well if it's not disrespectful to players, then tell me what is?

I think it is a case that you have read too many comments that suggest there is a superkeeper problem and now you believe it.

If you are having trouble scoring then you need to look at what you are doing wrong.

Don't be led by a forum of minorities.

Okay I've just had 2 games that really discredit the "Superkeeper" argument. The first was a 6-0 win in my favour followed by a 4-3 win in my favour as well. Now if that's "superkeepers" well I'm a monkey's uncle.

2 matches is hardly enough to conclude anything

2 matches is hardly enough to conclude anything

yeah, the only thing he proves with those two games is that he's not monkey's uncle.

I think it is a case that you have read too many comments that suggest there is a superkeeper problem and now you believe it.

If you are having trouble scoring then you need to look at what you are doing wrong.

Don't be led by a forum of minorities.

Just let me state this is an honest question and not meant as antagonistic or me looking for an argument. Another user posted a pkm where he created 12 clear cut chances. 9 of them involved a player getting in behind the defense with a full view of the goal that looked like this

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1694/ccc05.jpg

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3152/ccc06.jpg

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8533/ccc07.jpg

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5706/ccc08.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/596/ccc09.jpg

Seeing this do you understand where those who experience it are coming from? Saying it's your tactics without knowing what the user is actually seeing is the worst response on these forums. How can someone look at this and figure out what they are doing wrong? Can you honestly say that a real life team who created these scenarios would be viewed as doing something wrong?

Basically if the above screenshots represent what the average 'superkeeper' complainant is seeing then from a real world perspective they aren't the ones doing something wrong. Have your tactics ever created 9 chances like this in a single match?

If a user creates 9 chances like this across say 3 or 4 matches and sees a higher conversion rate, then I can fully understand why he would instinctively dismiss the complaints as rants. But that doesn't necessarily mean he is 'doing something right' and the complainant is 'doing something wrong'.