SI, What Were You Thinking ala Friendlies/LL Teams?

Why have the powers that be at SI made it impossible for Lower League clubs to arrange friendlies against big teams? What was the point?

May I please remind you, SI Braintrust, that this is a game. Yes, a game. Fun should factor into your programming equation. I understand that you want to make LL management harder, but is there really any reason to make it impossible to raise money through friendlies? Is this a change that will make the game better? Or, could those who dont want them simply not arrange them?

What makes it more frustrating is that its quite easy to add money through various editors. But, try to earn some money through getting slaughtered and taking a morale hit..we cant allow that!!

May I please also beg that the Braintrust consider adding optional content? Not only would it make the game more fun for more people; but, it will lessen the amount of complaints by empowering we players to enjoy the game that we paid for the way that we most enjoy.

Quit your moaning and find another way to generate revenue (I could tell you a GREAT way but I feel you need to play the game the proper way in order to fully understand lower league management). Good day.

They changed it cause it was somewhat unrealistic.

I see you need to increase your 'determination', because its SI 1, you 0

lol

babaui - Could you do some research and find out just how many big teams vs small teams from level 8 fixtures there was in pre-season this season?

Its only off the top of my head but i cant think of any. There may have been a Man Utd XI or Liverpool Reserves against someone, but the 1st team of a big club will at least want a challenge,

The only example I can think of was that lowly Spanish team that played Valencia. Valencia won 27-0 or something. Not sure how low the other team was though.

Portsmouth usually send a reserve team to play Havant and Waterlooville in preseason but all other games are against L2 teams or foreign teams. If the worst premier league side(I am open to admit it) do this then what chance of the big 4 going to send a full strength side to a BSN/S team or lower......I think not.

Real life teams don't make massive profits from friendlies, in fact often a loss. Please never reintroduce the easy money of top teams sending first teamers to lower leagues for no benefit to themselves.

Portsmouth usually send a reserve team to play Havant and Waterlooville in preseason but all other games are against L2 teams or foreign teams. If the worst premier league side(I am open to admit it) do this then what chance of the big 4 going to send a full strength side to a BSN/S team or lower......I think not.

and may I say the only reason Pompey touch Havant is because they are a feeder club to pompey, due to geographical reasons...

May I please also beg that the Braintrust consider adding optional content? Not only would it make the game more fun for more people; but, it will lessen the amount of complaints by empowering we players to enjoy the game that we paid for the way that we most enjoy.

I don't play LLM, so I won't comment on the realism/fun factor. Others have already.

But addressing the "optional content", I can't claim to be a programmer, but having read a lot about FM and the way it works in terms of development and programming, I do know that having "options" generates massive knock-ons to other areas of the game.

The debate that comes up every so often is the "unsackable" option. But in order for that to work, ticking a box for the user means SI would have to take out the morale factor from players (if they are losing constantly), board confidence, fans, press, etc, and all this would mean a factor with the main ME has to change, generating futher knock-ons within this. In effect, one tick-box means an entirely new game would have to be written.

An option for "being able to make money through big club friendlies" is a little specific, and I think must be a tweak on reputations and decision-making. So this aspect of FM would need two strands, plus any knock-on effect this has to general decision making linked to reputation.

Like I said, I'm no expert, but when people ask for options it's not as easy as simply adding a couple of tick boxes.

and may I say the only reason Pompey touch Havant is because they are a feeder club to pompey, due to geographical reasons...

Not even really a feeder team as more good relations due to us using thier ground for reserve matches

Portsmouth usually send a reserve team to play Havant and Waterlooville in preseason but all other games are against L2 teams or foreign teams. If the worst premier league side(I am open to admit it) do this then what chance of the big 4 going to send a full strength side to a BSN/S team or lower......I think not.

and may I say the only reason Pompey touch Havant is because they are a feeder club to pompey, due to geographical reasons...

and the fact that Portsmouth reserves play at Havant and W

On topic though. Managing as Havant and W I can get the likes of Bolton, Burnley, Wolves and Derby so national reputation teams in the Championshp and Premiership.

and the fact that Portsmouth reserves play at Havant and W

On topic though. Managing as Havant and W I can get the likes of Bolton, Burnley, Wolves and Derby so national reputation teams in the Championshp and Premiership.

Not even really a feeder team as more good relations due to us using thier ground for reserve matches

As I mentioned 2 posts above hehehe

Why have the powers that be at SI made it impossible for Lower League clubs to arrange friendlies against big teams? What was the point?

May I please remind you, SI Braintrust, that this is a game. Yes, a game. Fun should factor into your programming equation. I understand that you want to make LL management harder, but is there really any reason to make it impossible to raise money through friendlies? Is this a change that will make the game better? Or, could those who dont want them simply not arrange them?

What makes it more frustrating is that its quite easy to add money through various editors. But, try to earn some money through getting slaughtered and taking a morale hit..we cant allow that!!

May I please also beg that the Braintrust consider adding optional content? Not only would it make the game more fun for more people; but, it will lessen the amount of complaints by empowering we players to enjoy the game that we paid for the way that we most enjoy.

I did bring this up when I first started playing FM10. It was way too easy to get big Brazilian sides coming over to your tiny club for one match, easy to earn £40k through it too...

While it was a nice bonus it was ridiculous for this to happen, I'm glad it has gone even though I am struggling to bring in money right now. The game is now more realistic.

I love the way one person on here has said 'I could tell you other ways to make money but you need to find out'. Why not just tell the guy rather than bragging about something you know and he doesn't? Two wrongs don't make a right....yes he was a little rash when saying what he said but give him help if you can still?

If you did I'd be able to use it too cos I can't make ANY money at all without cheating and I don't want to cheat!

TBH I had actually noticed this without realising it.

During Beta testing I was playing with my Faroes League and before the change I was making friendly tournements for my reserves including decent South American teams and earnign shed loads of cash meanign I could go professional and get better players. Now I am lucky to get half decent european teams.

Good Work SI this is a step in the right direction for sure. :thup: :thup:

Why have the powers that be at SI made it impossible for Lower League clubs to arrange friendlies against big teams? What was the point?

May I please remind you, SI Braintrust, that this is a game. Yes, a game. Fun should factor into your programming equation. I understand that you want to make LL management harder, but is there really any reason to make it impossible to raise money through friendlies? Is this a change that will make the game better? Or, could those who dont want them simply not arrange them?

What makes it more frustrating is that its quite easy to add money through various editors. But, try to earn some money through getting slaughtered and taking a morale hit..we cant allow that!!

May I please also beg that the Braintrust consider adding optional content? Not only would it make the game more fun for more people; but, it will lessen the amount of complaints by empowering we players to enjoy the game that we paid for the way that we most enjoy.

With all do respect, but i generally manage LL teams and in all these years that i am playing CM/FM never arranged any friendly with EPL teams or their equals from other countries. Only because it was never realistic, and felt like cheat to get your club rich over night.

Keep your payroll under control and develop youth. It's very easy to get financially sound and strong in CM/FM, as long you keep tab of your profit/expense ratio, so really there is no need for such type of cheating anyways.

No offence, but it sounds like to us you're criticising us for making this realistic? You have to realise if we had it any other way, people would be complaining it's 'too easy' to make money.

Well, it was that way since I started with FM 2006 through FM 2010.1.

And the realism argument doesnt float with me either because SI back away from it when it suits its purposes: deaths, drug suspensions, off field arrests, club bankruptcies.

Its a game. Not everyone wants to suffer through the severe limitations of LL play. Rather than edit the DB, this was a feature that allowed clubs to get a little breathing room. No one had to use it. There was no reason for it to be removed.

With all do respect, but i generally manage LL teams and in all these years that i am playing CM/FM never arranged any friendly with EPL teams or their equals from other countries. Only because it was never realistic, and felt like cheat to get your club rich over night.

Keep your payroll under control and develop youth. It's very easy to get financially sound and strong in CM/FM, as long you keep tab of your profit/expense ratio, so really there is no need for such type of cheating anyways.

To be more specific, I wasnt refering to EPL clubs. I never tried to schedule matches with them. I did use local Championship and L1 sides though.

I did bring this up when I first started playing FM10. It was way too easy to get big Brazilian sides coming over to your tiny club for one match, easy to earn £40k through it too...

While it was a nice bonus it was ridiculous for this to happen, I'm glad it has gone even though I am struggling to bring in money right now. The game is now more realistic.

I love the way one person on here has said 'I could tell you other ways to make money but you need to find out'. Why not just tell the guy rather than bragging about something you know and he doesn't? Two wrongs don't make a right....yes he was a little rash when saying what he said but give him help if you can still?

If you did I'd be able to use it too cos I can't make ANY money at all without cheating and I don't want to cheat!

TBH I had actually noticed this without realising it.

During Beta testing I was playing with my Faroes League and before the change I was making friendly tournements for my reserves including decent South American teams and earnign shed loads of cash meanign I could go professional and get better players. Now I am lucky to get half decent european teams.

Good Work SI this is a step in the right direction for sure. :thup: :thup:

I also never scheduled any against foreign teams. Only LOCAL teams to add some local flair and try to recreate rivalry.

One other thing, I understand people not wanting to use this or any other optional feature. I simply can not understand the need for some to force the way they like to play the game down everyone's throat. It an ugly part of human nature carried to deadly extremes around the globe. Try tolerance. You dont need to use what you dont want to

Well, it was that way since I started with FM 2006 through FM 2010.1.

And the realism argument doesnt float with me either because SI back away from it when it suits its purposes: deaths, drug suspensions, off field arrests, club bankruptcies.

Its a game. Not everyone wants to suffer through the severe limitations of LL play. Rather than edit the DB, this was a feature that allowed clubs to get a little breathing room. No one had to use it. There was no reason for it to be removed.

If everything stayed the same from Fm06, we would essentially pay money for a data update.

The reason that they can't use stuff such as deaths, drug suspensions, off field arrests and club bankruptcies if because they don't feel like getting into any legal trouble with a player who may be offended if in the game they continously fail drug suspensions. That and probably their would be a bug where all your best players die the day before the Champions League final:p;)

Amusing that someone has managed to find fault with 1 aspect of the game that has improved immensely

Quite infuriating in FM09 trying to arrange Friendly Leagues and Cups only to be rejected by teams. It's made a massive stride this year by displaying what teams are available and who will agree to your request.

The only thing i didn't like was the fixed match fee; i used to arrange LL friendlies against my Affiliate clubs and give them all the gate receipts

I also never scheduled any against foreign teams. Only LOCAL teams to add some local flair and try to recreate rivalry.

One other thing, I understand people not wanting to use this or any other optional feature. I simply can not understand the need for some to force the way they like to play the game down everyone's throat. It an ugly part of human nature carried to deadly extremes around the globe. Try tolerance. You dont need to use what you dont want to

It is not forcing down someone's throat, it's just realism. There is no way that Man U would be accepting a friendly invitation from some non-league team on a regular basis..

If everything stayed the same from Fm06, we would essentially pay money for a data update.

The reason that they can't use stuff such as deaths, drug suspensions, off field arrests and club bankruptcies if because they don't feel like getting into any legal trouble with a player who may be offended if in the game they continously fail drug suspensions. That and probably their would be a bug where all your best players die the day before the Champions League final:p;)

They cant get into legal trouble; but it makes the game less fun for those who are uncomfortable for this level of realism.

Also, I wanted to try to recreate the failed Dominic Speakman experiment at Leigh Genesis. It failed because the folks who run the Leigh Sports Village are Village idiots. They wouldnt allow Leigh to play home games there and Speakman had to pull out. To remind, even though Leigh was in the 7th level of the football pyramid, he made the club fully professional and tried to run it like a fully professional side. However, in the game, I didnt want to go with the sugar daddy option because then its too easy. The friendlies were a harmless way of approximating what was going on.

It is not forcing down someone's throat, it's just realism. There is no way that Man U would be accepting a friendly invitation from some non-league team on a regular basis..

Please try reading my posts before responding. Never tried to arrange friendlies with EPL sides. And, its a game. Its not real. If you really want real, then only perhaps 25 people on the planet should be able to manage Man U. Especially not teenagers with no coaching badges.

The game should be as real as possible though. Clubs should be accepting friendly requests from clubs they would realistically accept in real life. This was a clear improvement IMO.

The bottomline is it has changed and it isn't going back. Accept it or don't play the game if you don't like the change.

The game should be as real as possible though. Clubs should be accepting friendly requests from clubs they would realistically accept in real life. This was a clear improvement IMO.

This 'keep things as real as possible' argument doesnt carry much weight with me. If fully implemented, the game would be frustrating and not fun for the folks not managing the richest clubs. Do we really want a game where 99% of the clubs are mired in mediocrity or worse?

This is a game.

The bottomline is it has changed and it isn't going back. Accept it or don't play the game if you don't like the change.

And you know this how?

SI go back and forth with many things...they are always striving for balance.

Off Topic, but it's been mentioned numerous times that things like player deaths will land Sega/SI in potential trouble.

Well, that is your opinion. If you do a survey on these forums, or amongst most fans, I bet most would say that the most realistic the better,at least in things that wouldn't involve the gamer actually doing a lot of hard work

Off Topic, but it's been mentioned numerous times that things like player deaths will land Sega/SI in potential trouble.

There is absolutely no legal reason why they couldnt be in the game unless its explicitly mentioned in the licensing contract.

Well, that is your opinion. If you do a survey on these forums, or amongst most fans, I bet most would say that the most realistic the better,at least in things that wouldn't involve the gamer actually doing a lot of hard work

I agree with you. I am only speaking of optional content which anyone can ignore at their pleasure. I also play OOTP, a fantastic baseball sim developed by a couple German guys. Their game is highly realistic but also highly modable and full of options so as to please as many people as possible. IMO, I think malleability is a good thing in games.

And you know this how?

SI go back and forth with many things...they are always striving for balance.

Because I do

Read what Neil Brock wrote! The fact one of the head SI guys has got in on this and told you why it has changed pretty much tells you this.

It's off topic, but since you appear to be certain, are you a lawyer? How do you know that including player deaths, drug bans et al won't land the publishers and developers in trouble with the individual in question? I'm sure he'd object to an award-winning multinational game featuring his death.

It's off topic, but since you appear to be certain, are you a lawyer? How do you know that including player deaths, drug bans et al won't land the publishers and developers in trouble with the individual in question? I'm sure he'd object to an award-winning multinational game featuring his death.

Firstly, any individual would have no way of knowing if his likeness had died or been banned for drugs;

Secondly, he would have to prove that he had been harmed..pretty hard when each game for each user is unique and different. They already portray some players in a negative light through hidden personality ratings and we have yet to see a lawsuit.

Firstly, any individual would have no way of knowing if his likeness had died or been banned for drugs;

You seem to be ignoring the possibility that the player, or a relative, or a friend, is playing the game. I know loads of professional footballers that play FM.

Secondly, he would have to prove that he had been harmed..pretty hard when each game for each user is unique and different. They already portray some players in a negative light through hidden personality ratings and we have yet to see a lawsuit.

British libel law is weird though. It's basically the only circumstance where you are guilty till you prove yourself innocent.

All this misses the other point with issues like death, drugs etc. Taste and decency. It's one area where you do have to take the "it's a game" approach, because it's played by a wide audience, with a wide age range. Attempting to draw an analogy to maiing the arrangement of friendlies realistic is, frankly, childish.

Oh, and it's still far, far easier to arrange friendlies in FM than in reality.

Last little point. Bringing some of those factors in could risk a BBFC certification too.

Off Topic, but it's been mentioned numerous times that things like player deaths will land Sega/SI in potential trouble.

There is absolutely no legal reason why they couldnt be in the game unless its explicitly mentioned in the licensing contract.

Whether it is a legal issue or not, I'm sure pretty much every gamer would be gutted if their star striker/captain etc. dies due to illness or accident.

Going on to the friendlies issue, it can be frustrating being rejected for friendlies but SI are only providing a game that gives the user the most realistic experience to football management that they can possibly give.

I'll admit that teams that are in close proximity with eachother should be more likely to arrange & agree to friendlies (for example, Leigh Genesis vs Wigan Athletic) but thats about it.

As for creating a new "Dominic Speakman experiment", my only suggestion would be to use the editor or maybe the FMRTE. Perhaps starting higher manager reputation would come in handy as-well, not only for friendlies but also for attracting players like those that were brought in when Leigh were rebranded.

I never did this as I thought it was unrealistic. However, I saw no problem with other people doing it, so it din't bother me that it was in the game.

Yeah, it was way too easy beforehand. I'm glad SI did this. I used to have 500k+ in a matter of weeks.

You didn't have to exploit it - it should have been left in.