Touchline shouts - effectiveness. Questions and ideas.

I've just been wondering if there's a particularly complex system regarding touchline shouts. In other words - is their effectiveness impacted by as many variables as I'm thinking they could be?

For instance - while in training you may be able to get your message through to your players no problem, as there's little else getting in the way of them, they're under little pressure, they've got less to think about etc. In a match however, perhaps the players attentions are elsewhere and/or the pressure is getting to them, and so instructions don't sink in as much as the manager would like. Perhaps also the very notion of a 'shout' may be lost, and instead require a message being passed on by a player - and the effectiveness of this will depend perhaps on the influence and general mental strength and personality of the player tasked with relaying instructions.

Perhaps if, for instance, you have a very influential captain, trusting him to pass on the instructions may prove very effective, as the other players will respect him and listen carefully to his words. If however, for instance, the player is unprofessional and/or unambitious, he may care less for getting the message across, and may even distort or manipulate the instructions if he feels he's more in the right - thus possibly their high level of influence becomes a negative.

Perhaps in a big game, maybe at a bigger stadium, it'll be even more probable that messages will be lost in translations and as passed from touchline to players and/or from player to player, if through nothing more than sheer noise, but too due to the player's ability to take in instructions under pressure, and their personality impacting how much they care to listen to the instruction, for example.

If this was in place, maybe it'd be nice for your assistant to be able to report back on which players appear to have taken your advice on board and whether or not it has been effective, and then enabling you to attempt to pass on individual instructions to those players less influenced by the team instructions.

Brainstorm over. Any comments?

Another thought. Perhaps your players could comment on your managerial style, eg. be concerned by your lack of action on the touchline if you're losing, or be frustrated by the number of times a new instruction was issued.

My ideas aren't popular are they? :o

Further thought. Feedback on the appropriateness of the shouts, eg. there may be no point asking them to pass the ball out wide if no-one is there, and maybe suggestions such as "try and protect the lead" or "maybe we need to push higher up if we're going to grab a goal"?

:thup: I like the idea. Any feedback that players or backroom staff could give which would help improve your managment style would be a very usefull adition. Of course it shouldnt go to the extreme that they tell you exactly where you go wrong. More of their "opinion" of what would improve you as a manager. Which if it was based on their opinion could be completly wrong and make things worse if taken on board.

And feedback on your match day decisions would also be a great addition. It would help you understand to what extent your choices had on your players even if it was something as simple as one of them telling you they dont feel confident enough to go in hard with tackles without being booked.

I've always considered Touchline Shouts to merely be quick and simple adjustments to tactics, instead of going in and doing it yourself manually.

Theres a notion on the forums that they're some kind of magical feature, when it's just simple tactic adjustments that don't always work in my opinion.

Something like "Exploit the flanks" probably changes the passing to "Focus Passing Down Both Flanks" etc. I'm not entirely certain of this of course, but it's the simplest way to implement such a Touchline Shout system.

I've always considered Touchline Shouts to merely be quick and simple adjustments to tactics, instead of going in and doing it yourself manually.

Theres a notion on the forums that they're some kind of magical feature, when it's just simple tactic adjustments that don't always work in my opinion.

Something like "Exploit the flanks" probably changes the passing to "Focus Passing Down Both Flanks" etc. I'm not entirely certain of this of course, but it's the simplest way to implement such a Touchline Shout system.

I think that's pretty much how it is, and in that respect they maybe are a 'magical' feature, as in actuality are any tactical changes made during the match in any manner, with the exception of at half-time, as there appears to be a level of guaranteed influence and clear impact that perhaps there should not be.

In reality I'd say tactical changes made at half time are, for obvious reasons, more clear-cut and more likely to be absorbed by the players and have an effect than changes made during play. However I don't think this is accurately reflected in game, thus the suggestions/ideas on how to limit, or rather make more realistic, the impact of in-game tactical changes on players.

I do believe that there is the basis of such a system in existance in that a tactical change may not always be effective, but not to the levels I've suggested perhaps - and maybe more due to team talks and motivation than anything else.

Bumping this. Was reminded about the idea last night while watching England match..

Theres a notion on the forums that they're some kind of magical feature, when it's just simple tactic adjustments that don't always work in my opinion.

Let me be the first to say that "Pass to Feet" used with "Work Ball into Box" is definitely magic. Results in goals all the time.

Also works pretty well with "Exploit the Flanks".

Something like "Exploit the flanks" probably changes the passing to "Focus Passing Down Both Flanks" etc. I'm not entirely certain of this of course, but it's the simplest way to implement such a Touchline Shout system.

Exactly what it does. "Exploit the middle" focuses passing through the middle, etc etc etc...

Let me be the first to say that "Pass to Feet" used with "Work Ball into Box" is definitely magic. Results in goals all the time.

Also works pretty well with "Exploit the Flanks".

"Retain possession" & "pass to feet" is a great way to kill the clock. It works like magic but you could do it more subtly through the tactics screen.

Surely you all realise that touchline shouts are simply the same as sliding a slider?

These features along with the 'new' tactical wizard are just set parameters, how else do you think they can programme it? Why do you think the options for touchline shouts are greyed out when you use classic tactics?

Basically when you click 'exploit middle' or whatever it is, I don't use them so don't know', It sets width to narrow on the old slider system and maybe changes a few other things such as focus passing down middle.

There is nothing new about this feature at all, it is just programmed differently. We have had all this for ages, thing is you used to have to pause the game and change your sliders.

It seems a few of you get this but a lot don't.

As I understand it, shouts have two purposes:

1. Shouts allow useful tactical changes without having to fiddle with sliders mid-match.

2. Shouts present tactical options in a simple way that football-savvy but slider-phobic players can understand.

In short, they only make simple changes to tactical sliders. There's no mysterious effect on morale or team performance, no reliance on the individual player's influence or communication skills.

Hershie, I believe you've come up with some interesting ideas, particularly regarding the effectiveness depending on size of match and stadium. I'd also like more feedback from the players about the shouts. I'm a big fan of the shouts and use them all the time, so far to good effect generally, but definitely feel more could be added to this feature (in terms of depth, not necessarily new shouts).

For anyone wanting to know exactly what the shouts do the TT&F guide is your friend, find it in the tactics forum or at fmbritain.

I think that's pretty much how it is, and in that respect they maybe are a 'magical' feature, as in actuality are any tactical changes made during the match in any manner, with the exception of at half-time, as there appears to be a level of guaranteed influence and clear impact that perhaps there should not be.

In reality I'd say tactical changes made at half time are, for obvious reasons, more clear-cut and more likely to be absorbed by the players and have an effect than changes made during play. However I don't think this is accurately reflected in game, thus the suggestions/ideas on how to limit, or rather make more realistic, the impact of in-game tactical changes on players.

I do believe that there is the basis of such a system in existance in that a tactical change may not always be effective, but not to the levels I've suggested perhaps - and maybe more due to team talks and motivation than anything else.

Full agreement there mate.

Would definitely like to see "effects" of touchline instructions only way at moment is via Ass Mans Feedback during the game to see if they work:

I've always considered Touchline Shouts to merely be quick and simple adjustments to tactics, instead of going in and doing it yourself manually.

Theres a notion on the forums that they're some kind of magical feature, when it's just simple tactic adjustments that don't always work in my opinion.

Something like "Exploit the flanks" probably changes the passing to "Focus Passing Down Both Flanks" etc. I'm not entirely certain of this of course, but it's the simplest way to implement such a Touchline Shout system.

This is the case. The shouts are there to allow quick alteration of tactics to achieve certain desired effects.

Hershie, I believe you've come up with some interesting ideas, particularly regarding the effectiveness depending on size of match and stadium. I'd also like more feedback from the players about the shouts. I'm a big fan of the shouts and use them all the time, so far to good effect generally, but definitely feel more could be added to this feature (in terms of depth, not necessarily new shouts).

For anyone wanting to know exactly what the shouts do the TT&F guide is your friend, find it in the tactics forum or at fmbritain.

I'd like to maybe be told by my assistant 'their DL is having a bad game, try and exploit it, particularly with the pace of _____ at AMR.', 'the lads are looking tired, try to slow down play and let them get themselves together' or '[___] might not work because [____]' 'there's no point focusing our passing out wide with no-one there'.

Or of course just '____ doesn't seem to responding well to your instructions'.

Something like that.

I'd like to maybe be told by my assistant 'their DL is having a bad game, try and exploit it, particularly with the pace of _____ at AMR.', 'the lads are looking tired, try to slow down play and let them get themselves together' or '[___] might not work because [____]' 'there's no point focusing our passing out wide with no-one there'.

Or of course just '____ doesn't seem to responding well to your instructions'.

Something like that.

Just like that. Or after matches some interaction with players, with them either praising the tactical switches or criticising for using too many and confusing them. Or in game, with the assman advising against more changes until the game situation changes.

I think maybe it'd be a useful means of indicating how well a player deals with pressure as well.

If you could see more clearly why a player was having a bad game it'd be very useful in deciding in future on tactics or team selection.

While at present it's pretty hard to distinguish between poor tactics, an unsuitable role, or just having a bad game or cracking under pressure, feedback from assistants, the player's reaction to touchline instructions etc could make it much better.