Team talks is the source of all performance problems

I had a terrible run with Hayes & Yeading United after being promoted to the CC L1. Had 3 stupid defeats in a row, thanks to a bunch of apathetic morons I used to call football players. I was desperate losing games we should have won by conceding the classical 98 minute counter attack, the own goal and all the other stupid, unbearable stuff that happens way too often in this game. Then I read the post “Complacency”, and tried to give the

- No comment during Interviews

- No team talk at all, never never ever again

a try

Next game was me 18th against the 3rd of the league and the odds extremely against me. Didn’t said a word, and the result is

- The opposition was extremely complacent

- We won 2 – 0

What I can say, is that saying nothing during team-talks is actually the most effective way to get something out of your team.

Saying “No comment” during interviews has triggered unhappiness for some of my players (You don’t acknowledge the merits of the team, or some other boring unacceptable reaction from a player who gave 2 goals to the opposition in the 2 last previous games and conceded an own goal). As it seems there’s no option to tell “I’m gonna use that shotgun against the first moaning moron” team talk, the best is to say nothing to that bunch of half brains.

I’ll tell them some “Good result” from time to time just to remove the unhappiness, but I’ll probably never use that team talk stuff again because THAT’S what makes our teams play bad.

I'm surprised more people don't follow this advice. I've been using this since FM08 and have much more consistent results if I just ignore team talks altogether.

It's a mine field as far as I'm concerned.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=120876

Discusses TT in more detail, quite interesting

Say nothing best option. pleased at halt time is a known suicide

Actually can I disagree?

I was 2-0 down at half time, playing away against a better team.

I told them "I want to see more from you" - which led to a great 2nd half comeback, finishing 2-2 (and in truth unlucky not to win it).

Through the second half I received lots of comments in the Commentary such as:

"Whatever was said at halftime has really made a difference"

"Roberfors (my team) look really up for it this half"

"Showed a lot more heart in the second half"

Definitely my team talk helped turned things round.

If you dont say anything for 10-15 matches the entire squad will become unhappy you arent giving them enough credit - works well in the short term though and as you say an occasional pat on the back to the best performer can help with any unrest

If you dont say anything for 10-15 matches the entire squad will become unhappy you arent giving them enough credit - works well in the short term though and as you say an occasional pat on the back to the best performer can help with any unrest

Never seen this to be fair. I only get the 'not enough credit' issue if I use the team talk and criticise when they are performing well.

The point above about TT's being effective - yes, they can be. But they can also be disastrous. Not using them at all gives me a happy medium.

If you dont say anything for 10-15 matches the entire squad will become unhappy you arent giving them enough credit - works well in the short term though and as you say an occasional pat on the back to the best performer can help with any unrest

I posted in the 'complancy' thread, forgot to mention that I do say something at the end of the game so my players don't get upset.

i use Pleased at Half Time with my Dundee side and then play defensive and never lose my lead (or havent yet after 2 seasons) and usually get a 3rd near the end

Second game, home this time, odds against me once more, the result:

- Opponents have been very complacent

- Only a yellow card (where I usually got 2 or 3 in average)

- Players “seem lively”, “motivated” and they’re indeed, no more apathetic moron on the pitch

And a 3-1 win commented by the press as an easy win!

Just used team talks at the end of the game to tell them they did well, but using team talks at the beginning of the match or at half time seems to definitely have a negative impact when managing a weak side.

Say nothing best option. pleased at halt time is a known suicide

Its really wierd cos after i say "Dont let your performance drop" when were winning by at half time, i have never gone on to lose the match.

My attitude to press conferences was that they are pointless. now I don't care about them as now I do 'no comment' its as if they aren't there, they have too much of an effect on your players.

Not strictly true in FM10,i say pleased if were 2-0 or 3-0 up and it aint come back to bite me as of yet.

You are one of the lucky ones

And the 3rd win in a row in an away game, 2-4, conceded 2 because I played unhappy defenders I fined with 2 weeks wages before starting to use the "never ever team talks again" trick. Soon the unhappiness will be history and instead of struggling against relegation I'll be fighting for promotion.

By the way, my 19 years old striker bagged 9 on the last 5 games with a rating of 8.32 in CC L1, 7 on the last 3 matches I played with the “no team talks” trick. Once more, the behavior of my players was impressive, they were playing like Real, amazing!

And the press says I crushed the opposition, hahahahahahahaha

Makes me wonder why SI even created team-talks. I hate the fact that team-talks and opposition instructions have more effect on your team's performances than the actual tactics. It's just... Well like almost everything in this game nowadays; not real.

Makes me wonder why SI even created team-talks. I hate the fact that team-talks and opposition instructions have more effect on your team's performances than the actual tactics. It's just... Well like almost everything in this game nowadays; not real.

They created team talks because people wanted them and because its a major part of real football management.

But unfortunately they havent got it right just yet

I hate the fact that team-talks and opposition instructions have more effect on your team's performances than the actual tactics.

I totally agree. I have registered almost 600 matches (team talk effects) from FM 09 and now FM 10. It's very difficult to conclude, but I can definetly see a pattern with team talks:

1) They have way too much impact on the game. Team talks should be like 5-10 percent AT MOST on match result, but it seems like it is 25 percent or so.

2) The first five minutes. Come on, hasn't everyone noticed it already? When you pick the right team talk you have a great chance of scoring in the first five minutes of 1st or 2nd half. And it is the same with a "wrong" team talk - you will most likely concede a goal! I have out of 20 matches (where my team talk have failed) conceded 11 goals within the first five minutes.

What do you say to my facts? I am actually very interested to hear from you all because I haven't really "published" my facts to anyone besides my friends.

Edit: I just wanted to give some of my team talk results.

Case: Playing at home, odds are 1/6 (1.17) to a win for my team

Prematch team talk: We can win this (4 matches, 2 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat)

Prematch team talk: I expect a win (41 matches, 39 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat)

Conclusion: Using the right team talk at the right time will get you succes

This makes it 4 in a row. Johnstone’s Paint match and odds against me once again. Down by 2-1 at the 55 minute, checked my players they’re all around 7.0 (6.7, 7.3) in average, so this means we’re losing despite playing well. I’ll change nothing but the tired players. And guess who had the annoying late equalizer? Yes we did 94 minutes (90+3) we bagged one and won the game on penalties. Chelsea and the others in London, soon you’ll be the rest as Hayes & Yeading will send you down into hell.

Case: Playing at home, odds are 1/6 (1.17) to a win for my team

Prematch team talk: We can win this (4 matches, 2 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat)

Prematch team talk: I expect a win (41 matches, 39 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat)

Conclusion: Using the right team talk at the right time will get you succes

Isn't it a bit unfair to compare 4 games with 41 games? From a statistical point of view that doesn't seem like a great comparison.

experience shows that saying nothing all the time is working better than wasting 3 hours to read dumb reports from even dumber coaches telling you one thing then the reverse in the same sentence. What’s the point of wasting time trying to find a logic behind these damn team talks, where we all start to find out that there's no logic at all. I’d rather say nothing all the time than cross fingers and hope that morons understand “I expect a win” the same way I understand it. Thanks for advising us to waste time trying to understand the non understandable.

Say nothing best option. pleased at halt time is a known suicide

Made that mistake with my Sunderland side, who went up 3-0 within 12 mins against West Ham, totally outplayed them.

I have a determined squad, so though a little bit of credit was due. I told them I was pleased.

Lost 4-3. Oh, and before anyone says anything, trust me, it wasn't my tactics.

After the game, the great motivator that is Juande Ramos (West Ham manager) was credited for turning the result around with his words of wisdom.

I think team talks are important and should stay, but I also think the ME is over-sensitive to them and SI need to look at this.

just took over has waymouth and done no team tallks for three matches and we won all three before i took over they had lost there last four games.

The most efficient tactic with the “no team talks” trick seems to be 4-4-2 with team instructions “all out attack”

Rule of thumb with team talks - if none of the options really stand out as the right thing to say, say nothing.

Fantastic So we now have one of the top people from FM telling us this, we now know for a fact not giving team talks works.

I think I am pretty good at getting it right anyway, 9 times out of 10. But I think in future I will try not giving any team talk at all if I'm not sure.

worst result since "team talks" embargo a cup away draw 2 -2 against the 1st of CC L1. Just leading right now at home 3-0 at half time, all too easy

what an eye opener, not that I ever wanted or liked this feature anyway, but at least there is a way around it.

Rule of thumb with team talks - if none of the options really stand out as the right thing to say, say nothing.

Thanks, I will remember that!

Isn't it a bit unfair to compare 4 games with 41 games? From a statistical point of view that doesn't seem like a great comparison.

Unfair? Not at all. The way my teams played in those 4 matches was not good compared to the 41 as far as I can remember.

I think the problem with teams talks is that there aren't really enough realsitic options. You want to be able to say to individual players "you attacked well, but you're a lazy ****er" or to give the team a boost that doesn't seem desperate. Like when you say "come on we can win this!" it's almost like you're as surprised as they are.

Instead you end up having to say something like "Well Done" but what's the cut off for that? If they scored 7.0 or above they get a well done, otherwise nothing? That's what I've been sticking with, because I figure you only really deserve praise if you perform above average in a game. Likewise I only curse them out if they score 5.9 or less, unless it was against a good team.

As a weird idea, how about some kind of half-time mega team-talk you can store up and unleash on them for that one big game like a cup final or a play-off. You know the one - it's in all sports movies. You have a "rousing speech" bar that charges up. If you gave a rousing speech every week it wouldn't have any effect, so you need to spend some time between rousing. That's not to say the opposing manager won't be doing that too, of course.

My assistant used either "for the fans" or nothing (may be a bug) , saying nothing before match and in halftime and something encouraging at the end works okay.

The problem with fm10 is that you can not totally exclude team talks after assigning your assman like in fm07 .

No more teamtalks , no more half time breaks .

Knowing that saying nothing can work wonders has always been one of my golden lessons in FM.

I've been saying there isn't enough options when it comes to team talks for years.

For Paul C to come on and say that if none are applicable don't use one only confirms that there can't be enough options available for any given circumstance.

I seriously hope SI look at this as the OP has a good point. I read communication and pyschological warfare not long ago. Think it was off FMBritain? This is based on FM08 and guides you through team talks extensively. It really helped me with morale and even if my team was getting beaten my morale stayed good. The results were slightly improved too but not massively. Basically you just have to be positive ALL THE TIME. While doing this however you have to be very careful not to appear confident about your sides chances in any game or this will ruin your positivity.

Basically if you lose, you have to sympathise or say good effort. If you are away from home you might even have to say pleased at losing! Never really say in a press conference that you are confident of a win either as this can ruin your chances.

It is worth a read as it can help but I think morale and team talks are so messed up on this current patch that I am waiting for 10.2...

My assistant used either "for the fans" or nothing (may be a bug) , saying nothing before match and in halftime and something encouraging at the end works okay.

The problem with fm10 is that you can not totally exclude team talks after assigning your assman like in fm07 .

No more teamtalks , no more half time breaks .

This is always the default team talk from your assistant according to the artcile I read...

I save "For the Fans!" exclusively for rivals or cup finals - basically when they'd be used IRL.

I've never understood the assistant's preference for it, surely players being told that week in week out will get sick of the bleeding fans!

You are using it correctly though! It should be used very sparingly and the only times it should pop up are against fierce rivals apparently!

Why then the Ass Man should use it all the time is plain daft. Also why does every Ass Man do the same? Are they all robots? Surely each should be different?!

Ass man hasent got a clue - he literally is an \'ASS\' man!

They created team talks because people wanted them and because its a major part of real football management.

But unfortunately they havent got it right just yet

The things that you say to your team should effect to the mental side but not tactical. Many times my team have been playing rubbish tactically in first half and I've given them the hair dryer trearment and all the sudden without tactical changes they start playing beautiful short passing even if they haven't been told to do that in tactics.

This just doesn't make any sence at all, right SI?

I save "For the Fans!" exclusively for rivals or cup finals - basically when they'd be used IRL.

I've never understood the assistant's preference for it, surely players being told that week in week out will get sick of the bleeding fans!

I wonder about this too. It's very hard to build that "siege mentality" in FM that the big clubs do. They have the pre-match huddle, the manager just defends them to the hilt in public. You think about Arsene Wenger - the guy has never seen any of his players do anything wrong in his life. The last thing he is doing is going in there and saying "this is for the fans", he's telling the players "win this match, no excuses". If the players can't take it, they shouldn't be professional footballers.

Do SI not realise that these guys that make it to the top are insanely competitive people who just want to win every game? Telling them "I want victory" shouldn't make them all wet their pants.

I've never been sure whether "for the fans" means this will be tough but put the effort in and give the fans something to sing about or we should win this but do a proffesional job and give the fans value for money.

I have noticed something strange with my assman, if I ask for his advice with teamtalks he always says something to the whole team before the match, sometimes at half time and occasionally at full time, but if I holiday for a few months he hardly talks to the team at all

There is no way you can take any statistical significance from 4 matches. Even 41 is a low data sample.

Sorry Paul I'm not sure what that's got to do with the thread?

Rule of thumb with team talks - if none of the options really stand out as the right thing to say, say nothing.

Interesting tip that. I always try to say something usually but perhaps I will try this in the future.

C.

Since reading Sven-Göran Eriksson's book, On Football, which is all about motivation and confidence etc., I have been trying out a new technique with my team talks and media interaction. It seems to be working very well.

In the book, four personality types are identified as A, B, C, D and described as below.

A - high ambition & high performance anxiety.

B - high ambition but not afraid of failing.

C - little ambition & afraid of making mistakes

D - little ambition but not bothered about failing.

D achieves least. He has little ambition and low performance anxiety and is therefore not going to generate any kind of energy.

C is next. He will mainly use his energy to avoid making mistakes.

The footballers we are most interested in are the ones with ambition.

A has great ambition which gives him drive but his performance anxiety pulls him in the opposite direction.

However, B makes the most of himself. He is a winner and dares to excel when it really matters.

Erikkson says that only around 20% of players he has worked with are B types.

So the idea I have taken from this is to create a B culture around your team. That is, to stimulate ambition and to reduce fear.

First of all, I work to bring highly ambitious and determined players into my team.

Then, I think about creating a B culture when I am giving team talks or dealing with the press. I judge each situation based on current morale and expectation, and I try to think about whether I am being ambitious enough and challenging my players (i.e. demanding team talks like 'expect a win', 'expect a performance' etc.) or whether or not I need to reduce fear and encourage instead (i.e. team talks like 'we can win this' or other encouraging and supportive team talks).

I seem to be getting the balance right at the moment and, after putting more thought into the talks, I have been enjoying this aspect of the game more and more.

Hope that might be interesting for some and provoke some discussion.

Regards,

C.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=120876

Discusses TT in more detail, quite interesting

Yet that is totally free of any evidence given. This thread here, especially thanks to Paul commenting in it, is much more informative. So far I always thought that saying nothing will in 90+x percent of the cases lead to abysmal performance. If that is simply neutral then it is indeed a good choice to say nothing regularly as long as you believe to have gotten it right in the other areas.

Since reading Sven-Göran Eriksson's book, On Football, which is all about motivation and confidence etc., I have been trying out a new technique with my team talks and media interaction. It seems to be working very well.

In the book, four personality types are identified as A, B, C, D and described as below.

A - high ambition & high performance anxiety.

B - high ambition but not afraid of failing.

C - little ambition & afraid of making mistakes

D - little ambition but not bothered about failing.

D achieves least. He has little ambition and low performance anxiety and is therefore not going to generate any kind of energy.

C is next. He will mainly use his energy to avoid making mistakes.

The footballers we are most interested in are the ones with ambition.

A has great ambition which gives him drive but his performance anxiety pulls him in the opposite direction.

However, B makes the most of himself. He is a winner and dares to excel when it really matters.

Erikkson says that only around 20% of players he has worked with are B types.

So the idea I have taken from this is to create a B culture around your team. That is, to stimulate ambition and to reduce fear.

First of all, I work to bring highly ambitious and determined players into my team.

Then, I think about creating a B culture when I am giving team talks or dealing with the press. I judge each situation based on current morale and expectation, and I try to think about whether I am being ambitious enough and challenging my players (i.e. demanding team talks like 'expect a win', 'expect a performance' etc.) or whether or not I need to reduce fear and encourage instead (i.e. team talks like 'we can win this' or other encouraging and supportive team talks).

I seem to be getting the balance right at the moment and, after putting more thought into the talks, I have been enjoying this aspect of the game more and more.

Hope that might be interesting for some and provoke some discussion.

Regards,

C.

Boo for copy and paste

Well, that's what we would want to achieve, but way too often I feel that by using a comparable approach I just overestimate the smartness of the game AI in that respect. I just don't think it works well enough to appreciate or require any kind of sophisticated approach.

On top of that, getting the B types may be one for the transfer market and less for the team-talks. Just recently, after reading through a thread about player CA development, I realised how important it is to have an ambitious, determined and professional bunch. Before I just looked at the scouts' PA estimations to figure which youngsters to sign...

Saying nothing isnt *always* neutral, but in the cases where it isnt an alternative should jump out at you

Cheers

Will give that a serious try now, while not leaving the hair-dryer at home, just in case

Good to see this message from SI.

I think some of the problems with saying nothing stemmed from an in game tip (FM08?) that said saying nothing is a 'snub' to the players - almost as if you are beyond angry and don't want to speak to them.

If this isn't the case then it's acceptable that it can be used more frequently.