Can i get a refund?

Bought this game since 1993 and it has never been so bug ridden and boring.

I am using a high spec mac to play this and the game keeps on crashing to desktop. ok, i will download the the patched patch 10.1.1. Now i cant even see the updated database when trying to start yet another new game. only 'default 10.0' plus i cant even see my edited db!! Frustrating? VERY!

I blame SEGA for clearly applying the pressure to release this game before its ready. So, as you have charged me £30 for a hugely flawed product can i demand my money back? Probably not but i think Si/Sega are losing a lot of loyal customers year on year through this crass incompetence and general poor player support.

Thank you and goodnight.

there was no updated database. Your created ones are not databases they are XML modifications, As a result click on change at the bottom.

Yes the game is bug ridden but alot of that has been fixed in the patch.

I bought CM2 ages ago, it would not run on the PC I had at the time, I took it back. I think things have changes with PC returns now, the problem you describe might be solved by going back to basics, cleaning up the OS or starting again. This is a little harder with Macs than PCs...

You might be entitiled to a refund if a lot of people had the same known issue (L4D2 invalid install errors issue last month is one example, affected about 1/3 of users), any refund is from the retailer and not from the actual producers (How would you get a refund for a rubbish film from the director??).

I would try more technical solutions before resorting to returning the product.

What makes the whole thing so frustrating for me is the silence and lack of openess/transparency (I'm minded to say "honesty") about patch 2. Yesterday Matt from Sega posted on this forum (a separate topic) that he would liaise with SI on their policy about releasing information on patches. I had suggested it was unfair (but understandable). He soon closed the topic (it seeming to me he took a lot of liberty in his interpretation of "abuse" by two subsequent and different posters). Haven't heard from him since on the issue. Yet they value their customers etc etc.

There are a lot of bugs in FM2010 (listed in various posts by various posters) and although I found those bugs made FM2010 more frustrating than enjoyable (that may not be the case for all), I have decided to wait for patch 2 in the hope that it will be a success.

However, I remain very unimpressed with SI's disdain for those who are waiting for patch 2 and those who have, in good faith, submitted various issues with FM2010. On the one hand they plead that they don't want to upset people by releasing a date for patch 2 and then not being able to comply with it. How sad, yet I can accpet there is merit in such an explanation (even if others would consider it a cop out). On the other, they'll release a game on release date which needed (for the past how many versions as well) a patch on day one - and for a reasonable ratio of users, a second patch which is out "sometime before Christmas".

Their policy of silence and absolute rejection of reasonable enquiries on the patch is Hitleresque and infantile. Yes, churlish reactions to a date not being stuck to are understandably best avoided - but where is the balance for those who would like to know when they can resume with a game they paid for last November??? SI point the finger at certain posters based on "experience" if they can't comply with a specified date. Which, in its own way, says quite a lot.

What makes the whole thing so frustrating for me is the silence and lack of openess/transparency (I'm minded to say "honesty") about patch 2. Yesterday Matt from Sega posted on this forum (a separate topic) that he would liaise with SI on their policy about releasing information on patches. I had suggested it was unfair (but understandable). He soon closed the topic (it seeming to me he took a lot of liberty in his interpretation of "abuse" by two subsequent and different posters). Haven't heard from him since on the issue. Yet they value their customers etc etc.

There are a lot of bugs in FM2010 (listed in various posts by various posters) and although I found those bugs made FM2010 more frustrating than enjoyable (that may not be the case for all), I have decided to wait for patch 2 in the hope that it will be a success.

However, I remain very unimpressed with SI's disdain for those who are waiting for patch 2 and those who have, in good faith, submitted various issues with FM2010. On the one hand they plead that they don't want to upset people by releasing a date for patch 2 and then not being able to comply with it. How sad, yet I can accpet there is merit in such an explanation (even if others would consider it a cop out). On the other, they'll release a game on release date which needed (for the past how many versions as well) a patch on day one - and for a reasonable ratio of users, a second patch which is out "sometime before Christmas".

Their policy of silence and absolute rejection of reasonable enquiries on the patch is Hitleresque and infantile. Yes, churlish reactions to a date not being stuck to are understandably best avoided - but where is the balance for those who would like to know when they can resume with a game they paid for last November??? SI point the finger at certain posters based on "experience" if they can't comply with a specified date. Which, in its own way, says quite a lot.

Sorry to disagree with you SI have said that a patch will be available before xmas so what do you want them to do come on here every day and say sorry no patch today? i thought not it would be a waste of SI's time and readers time they have givin a time frame that is before xmas.

As above, you are still on the default database, and the edited changes aren't database changes, just xmls that you choose (if you tick the change box) that go in the game if you want. Maximum of 82 different xmls you can use iirc.

What makes the whole thing so frustrating for me is the silence and lack of openess/transparency (I'm minded to say "honesty") about patch 2. Yesterday Matt from Sega posted on this forum (a separate topic) that he would liaise with SI on their policy about releasing information on patches. I had suggested it was unfair (but understandable). He soon closed the topic (it seeming to me he took a lot of liberty in his interpretation of "abuse" by two subsequent and different posters). Haven't heard from him since on the issue. Yet they value their customers etc etc.

There are a lot of bugs in FM2010 (listed in various posts by various posters) and although I found those bugs made FM2010 more frustrating than enjoyable (that may not be the case for all), I have decided to wait for patch 2 in the hope that it will be a success.

However, I remain very unimpressed with SI's disdain for those who are waiting for patch 2 and those who have, in good faith, submitted various issues with FM2010. On the one hand they plead that they don't want to upset people by releasing a date for patch 2 and then not being able to comply with it. How sad, yet I can accpet there is merit in such an explanation (even if others would consider it a cop out). On the other, they'll release a game on release date which needed (for the past how many versions as well) a patch on day one - and for a reasonable ratio of users, a second patch which is out "sometime before Christmas".

Their policy of silence and absolute rejection of reasonable enquiries on the patch is Hitleresque and infantile. Yes, churlish reactions to a date not being stuck to are understandably best avoided - but where is the balance for those who would like to know when they can resume with a game they paid for last November??? SI point the finger at certain posters based on "experience" if they can't comply with a specified date. Which, in its own way, says quite a lot.

Hitleresque and infantile?? Dont you think that is a bit over the top. I am not really sure what you want SI to do. You say that you understand about not being able to set a date and then you turn around and criticise them for not releasing a date. I would think by now you would see that if they say that it will be released on a certain day or that a certain problem will be fixed, they would be absolute turmoil on the boards if it didnt happen.

Did you ever think that maybe they dont say anything because they dont have an answer right now. I have seen where one bug has been fixed only to have it cause issues somewhere else, unexpectedly. They are not making promises because there is no way for 100% certainality. They said by Christmas so you have a timeline. I am not sure what you would want them to do.

If you look around the boards, their time is being taken with trying to answer questions when they can and find fixes for problems. They released a patch to try and help those hit with the crashing. That in itself is a perfect example of the unexpected. I am sorry you feel that this is unfair but they are working on the issues and trying to get them fixed. I woud think you would be happy knowing they are doing their best to get their game working the right way. Too many companies dont even do that.

just my humble opinion of course

Every game has bugs in it on every level. Everyone needs to understand that. Yes the defending is awful at times. But what else, and DON'T SAY LONG SHOTS. Long shots are a part of the game. Maybe they happen a little more then real life, but at the same time, long shots is just everything outside 20 yards for the most part, its it that un common to have 10 shots from there? And people forget that a blocked shot counts just the same.

SI should have stated something on here about the change it implamented with changing the editor, as ITFCadam is so angry about that he can't figure out how to simply tic a box. SEGA probably did nothing to get the game moving faster and release an "unfinished" product. What competition does SEGA have, FIFA Manager? Everyone here knows its just FIFA without being able to play the actual game. FM has so much depth its crazy! And of course there are going to be some small bugs, and yes it does have a few SMALL bugs, but with what maybe 150 full time testers they can't see them all. How many FM players are there... 2 mil all over the world? (Total guess) What sucks is everyone expects everything to be absolutely perfect. Hey look, the actual game of football isnt even PREFECT ( see Henry or any other controversy in the past 100 years ). This game, is slow, but entertaining and has opened my eyes to more of the world of football. Complainers, just ask for help, there are more people who find this game great then bad, so they must be doing something right, which means the game actually works... right?

What makes the whole thing so frustrating for me is the silence and lack of openess/transparency (I'm minded to say "honesty") about patch 2. Yesterday Matt from Sega posted on this forum (a separate topic) that he would liaise with SI on their policy about releasing information on patches. I had suggested it was unfair (but understandable). He soon closed the topic (it seeming to me he took a lot of liberty in his interpretation of "abuse" by two subsequent and different posters). Haven't heard from him since on the issue. Yet they value their customers etc etc.

There are a lot of bugs in FM2010 (listed in various posts by various posters) and although I found those bugs made FM2010 more frustrating than enjoyable (that may not be the case for all), I have decided to wait for patch 2 in the hope that it will be a success.

However, I remain very unimpressed with SI's disdain for those who are waiting for patch 2 and those who have, in good faith, submitted various issues with FM2010. On the one hand they plead that they don't want to upset people by releasing a date for patch 2 and then not being able to comply with it. How sad, yet I can accpet there is merit in such an explanation (even if others would consider it a cop out). On the other, they'll release a game on release date which needed (for the past how many versions as well) a patch on day one - and for a reasonable ratio of users, a second patch which is out "sometime before Christmas".

Their policy of silence and absolute rejection of reasonable enquiries on the patch is Hitleresque and infantile. Yes, churlish reactions to a date not being stuck to are understandably best avoided - but where is the balance for those who would like to know when they can resume with a game they paid for last November??? SI point the finger at certain posters based on "experience" if they can't comply with a specified date. Which, in its own way, says quite a lot.

Hello,

I'm meeting SI early next week which is the first opportunity I'll have to talk to them about their policy of keeping quiet on patches until they are ready. As I intimated to you - they are happy with this policy which has suited them well for several years - hence it'll take a bit more than me dropping them an email to convince them to change it. I do intend to keep the community posted if there is a change of policy - I just haven't been able to make that happen yet.

I disagree that in closing a thread with comments from a known troll - now banned - such as "Do the posters on this forum live under rocks or something? I've never met such a bunch of greasy, obnoxious cretins. " was taking any liberties at all. I closed the thread because we'd concluded a good discussion and I'd taken an action to progress it. However - if you have issues with the moderation of the forum you can raise that at mods at sigames dot com if you wish.

As for Hitleresque and infantile - I'm unsure of the validity or necessity of that comment and will be asking the mods to review. If you'd like to discuss why please PM me or use the email address above.

Cheers

Matt

Well said, Matt.

Sorry to disagree with you SI have said that a patch will be available before xmas so what do you want them to do come on here every day and say sorry no patch today? i thought not it would be a waste of SI's time and readers time they have givin a time frame that is before xmas.

Thank you for your reply. I do not think it is fair to disregard those who are waiting for patch 2. Will you be using patch 2?

Oh this old Chestnut again.

Have any of you whiners actually said what you want yet? How is a sticky thread outlining the patching policy before the game is released and still there not enough? They said the patch will be in December. It's December so it will be out sometime this month. The next one will be February. It will be out sometime in February. How do you people not get this?

Thank you for your reply. I do not think it is fair to disregard those who are waiting for patch 2. Will you be using patch 2?

I'll be using patch 2 for sure. But quite frankly i can accept that it will be out for christmas and i'd much rather SI were spending all their time and resources fixing as many issues as possible rather than wasting time updating people where its at.

They said a patch will be released before christmas.

In a few words, I urge everyone to shut up about the patch until boxing day if it hasnt been released, then enjoy a whine - as long as its constructive I guess...

I have gone to season 2021 & have not yet had a crash or major bug so im happy with it. Yes there are a few issues with the ME but nothing major that spoils the game play. Before blaming the game for crashing I would look at your hardware first.

Hitleresque and infantile?? Dont you think that is a bit over the top. I am not really sure what you want SI to do. You say that you understand about not being able to set a date and then you turn around and criticise them for not releasing a date. I would think by now you would see that if they say that it will be released on a certain day or that a certain problem will be fixed, they would be absolute turmoil on the boards if it didnt happen.

Did you ever think that maybe they dont say anything because they dont have an answer right now. I have seen where one bug has been fixed only to have it cause issues somewhere else, unexpectedly. They are not making promises because there is no way for 100% certainality. They said by Christmas so you have a timeline. I am not sure what you would want them to do.

If you look around the boards, their time is being taken with trying to answer questions when they can and find fixes for problems. They released a patch to try and help those hit with the crashing. That in itself is a perfect example of the unexpected. I am sorry you feel that this is unfair but they are working on the issues and trying to get them fixed. I woud think you would be happy knowing they are doing their best to get their game working the right way. Too many companies dont even do that.

just my humble opinion of course

Unfortunately there are those who have reported 10.1.1 has helped but others who have reported it hasn't. What could SI do? No one would expect hourly updates but something more definitive than "sometime before Christmas" would be helpful. As you say they read the forums. Should they not have regard for those who are waiting for the patch before play a game/career game? Is it really that much to say "patch coming along fine, fixes will hopefully include [abc] and we're hoping to have it out on 14 December" (giving themselves a day or two grace). It simply an update.

Hello,

I'm meeting SI early next week which is the first opportunity I'll have to talk to them about their policy of keeping quiet on patches until they are ready. As I intimated to you - they are happy with this policy which has suited them well for several years - hence it'll take a bit more than me dropping them an email to convince them to change it. I do intend to keep the community posted if there is a change of policy - I just haven't been able to make that happen yet.

I disagree that in closing a thread with comments from a known troll - now banned - such as "Do the posters on this forum live under rocks or something? I've never met such a bunch of greasy, obnoxious cretins. " was taking any liberties at all. I closed the thread because we'd concluded a good discussion and I'd taken an action to progress it. However - if you have issues with the moderation of the forum you can raise that at mods at sigames dot com if you wish.

As for Hitleresque and infantile - I'm unsure of the validity or necessity of that comment and will be asking the mods to review. If you'd like to discuss why please PM me or use the email address above.

Cheers

Matt

Your efforts were, prior to your post, appreciated. I'm happy to take your word for it that the offending poster was a known troll. We had indeed concluded a good discussion which you've now made rather meaningless. The "hitleresque and infantile" comment may have been a little harsh in your eyes but in any event, and for clarification, it was not directed at you personally. Apologies if it came across that way, or if you interpreted it that way. It is directed at the current policy of silence on patches which exacerbates frustration, and which I have already set out my views on. Given that your preference was to avail of the mods to deal with what was arguably (and what I continue to consider to be) fair comment (if a little harsh), I'll respectfully decline your invitation to PM or e-mail.

Yeh it would be nice if Si released a bit more infomation about the patch, so thanks Matt for chasing that one up. However it doesnt take away the fact that this game has been out for what.. 2-3months and i still can't play it even though i have a top range PC. Crash dump after crash dump, im not the only, far from it.

Will see what Patch 2 brings i quess, if it doesnt fix the crash dumps i will be chasing up a refund aswell.

"patch coming along fine, fixes will hopefully include [abc] and we're hoping to have it out on 14 December" (giving themselves a day or two grace). It simply an update.

If SI did this can you imagine the furore that would happen if the patch wasn't released on the date they say in their post. It would be carnage. Personally I'm happy with the before christmas announcement as it then give the SI team the time to actually work on the patch. It's not as easy as you think for this as a change in one thing could cause problems elsewhere in the game so it has to be tested so this doesn't happen.

Matt has said he will chase up and all we can do is wait and see what he can do for us.

I think it's a little bit sad that people communicate so irresponsibly even when they have opportunities to edit and revise whatever point they need to get across unlimited times. I also find that it is very distasteful that people are happy to throw around comparisons to Hitler/Nazi Germany so easily. It's a cheap shot, because Hitler/Nazi Germany did EVERYTHING that was bad, from kicking puppies to writing bad cheques. But comparison requires a bit more specificity, and not specifying it leaves the remark open to unfair interpretation. This leads to me being sad about how people find that it is necessary to overhype and exaggerate everything in order to get their point across.

ITFCadam, you probably should have tried to get help in the editing forum before coming in guns blazing. I just saw you posted a question in technical help, and started this thread about 15 minutes after you tried to get help. You were just bored, weren't you? You could have posted in the big thread made for people to vent, and posted about the actual problems you have had. There are people with legitimate problems who are much more deserving of a refund than you are, and what you did is a discredit to them.