League not developing while my team does

Hi, I think that is problem that makes me mad in previous and current FMs. I am always starting with Korona Kielce in Polish league. After 2 or 3 seasons I usually get to ECC group stage, I got money, after 5-6 I am unbeatable in Polish league usually getting to quarter finals of ECC and around 15m euro in the bank. I decided to check my reputation and it is > 6000 now I think, which is 2000 raise since the beginning I guess. Unfortunately:

- when I asked to filter out unrealistic targets I don't get very good players, I think playing regullary in ECC should be enough boost

- other teams in the league are much worse than me, although there are money as well, last season I finished with 3 draws and 1 lost game

- Poland is around 6-8 place in european ranking and 2 clubs goes to ECC and 4 to EC !!!

- 2 clubs from Poland including mine are in the first 50 of clubs ranking (I am 35)

- money for winning league are funny - 675k - if league is developing I guess money should be raised as well, also one for TV rights

I think that Russian league in real world would be great example - in not so many years they built really good league where good european players are going. Current way in game makes it extremly boring after few seasons, when I make my team winning Polish league, but unable to cope with bigger teams in Europe. I understand that my team won't be a Real Madrid ever in the game (unless I start changing things in editor), but league development could be added there. How can I cope in Europe if I get 675k for winning league?

One team doesn't make a league good - if anything one good team in a league with the rest lagging behind makes it worse! If dynamic league reputation was to come into the game it'd have a very minor impact. So you're doing well - you may make more money, but the league wouldn't neccessarily be better or attract more money. Again, if anything it could attract less. Where exactly would increased prize money come from?

The Russian league has worked because there are a number of big clubs with big fanbases and a hell of a lot of rich people willing to invest.

FM doesn't have any capacity for changing a league's reputation nor its revenue. The reputation they probably could fix, but the revenue would be hard to. It's not a predictable increase, prize money increases sporadically as and when the leagues feel they have enough money - and FM has no way of calculating how much hard cash the league itself owns. If they put in a constant increase of money then for people who play 20+ season games you could see ridiculous things like £200m prize money in England in 30 years time or whatnot. If they put in sporadic changes it's likely to just get out of control in other ways. Unfortunately, some things are just too unpredictable to put into the game.

OK, maybe I expressed myself not precisly enough. Other teams are makeing some progress, for example in last 2 seasons Poland had 3 teams in EC and mine in ECC. I got to first knockout round of ECC and 2 teams went through to first knockout round of EC. I am simply much better in the league because half of my squad are not Polish players, as I try to find the best what I can and they don't seem to be doing that in other clubs although there are at least 2 clubs that would have better rep than me, I have really deep squad and trying to have worth replacements.

So as you can see it is not really that my team is greatest and the rest is just complete rubish, it looks they don't seem to be wanting to develop. And if my team is getting recognizable in Europe that would mean something and should make Polish league more rputable.

Falastur, I am anayst and programmer and have to say that you described it as it would be a rocket science. I never thought how it could look, but it is not rocket science definitely. An easy way would be basing league reputation on teams reputation and prize money on league reputation. As far as I know league reputation can be between 1 and 20, so prize money would never be exceed some point. This is very simple idea that could probably be modified to be more complicated and more real, but as you can see it is not rocket science.

This an argument that is raging down the years, please look at threads on dynamic leagues.

What if league prize money was directly related to league and team European coefficient?

Apparently, if I have understood similar threads correctly, prize money is fixed for each league. Making it variable means masses more coding that could impact on other codes thus causing more bugs.

Actually I though about my above idea to make prize money depending on league reputation. This would even look real as league reputation would raise by 1 probably after 2 seasons earliest. Let's calculate - 10000 is max for team rep so every team would have to raise by 500 to make a raise in league rep. I guess this could be raising very slowly but at least it would.

Kieron, I don't think that this would cause so much bugs if any, please give me one potencial?

I no programmer, I am just relaying what has been said in previous threads (as I have understood it).

Perhaps a mod or programmer could answer better.

There has been a number of threads on this subject recently and i have stated i agree. For example IRL CSKA done well for Russia and since then more players have gone to Russia and Zenit done well aswell as Rubin. Now correct me if im wrong isnt this one team setting a mark and the rest following.

England wouldnt have attracted the players it does now, well not to the smaller teams anyway 10 years ago. Rangers and Celtic could attract better players 10 years ago than they can now, but as a result the Scottish game is improving.

Its the knock on effect of one team doing well. And FM does not replicate this in any way. England is the prime example. Since their European ban they went through an age where players where less likley to play in England because their was no european competitions. Then United won the CL in 98/99(i think this is correct year) with a Mainly British players. Since then the English game has went on the rise, and when Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea all had their Final season improving the game further, this has been shown to bring better players to the league, top and bottom end, prize money has gone up and a massive tele deal from Sky. Now It would be good for FM to show this in future versions.

Go and ask Rosenborg which players from outside Norway they could attract to the Norwegian league after being in the CL group stage for 8 times in a row...

If the league just isn't any challenge, and your record shows that perfectly, players will still prefer to go elsewhere.

At the same time, if more clubs develop well and the league keeps on rising in the UEFA ranking, then I agree there should be the possibility of a slight(!!!) change in the league reputation.

A slight increase of the country/leagues reputation wouldn’t hurt. You guys that argue against that idea are probably Britons and playing British teams, thus you don’t really realize how frustrating it is to still be considered as a “second rank league” club, even after you managed to win the CL. But we’re not all interested in managing a British team which we’re eventually forced to do after a few seasons because it’s where the big money is.

Allowing the league reputation to increase based on the results in European competitions is feasible and won’t kill the interest of the game; it will increase it, because it will make the rise of new rivals across Europe possible.

As it works now, imagine you play FM 1990 picking up an English team, they were the shame of European football at that time, kick’n rush, that was all it was about beyond the channel back in these days. You wouldn’t be able to have a proper signing in 2010 as it is for lower rank leagues now. We all know that things changed for the English football since then and it would be much more interesting to play the game if such things could happen on the long run.

We don’t ask for a complicated calculation to take place in order to achieve that, but just take in account the continental results, and have some events if clubs do well like: “The continental results of the Polish clubs has increased the interest of some players for this championship lately”. Yet, it would still take 15-20 years of winning the CL each year to have the Polish leagues increase to a point where they can compete with Spanish or English clubs, which would prevent unrealistic events to happen too often in the game.

As FM is build now, if ever in the next few years Italian football becomes the best football again, everybody will suddenly stop playing ManU or Arsenal just because the game is having hardcoded league reputation and they would be unable to buy correct players to compete against the Italian clubs. And it’s not going to be Piotrekxxxxx or I posting stuff like that but you instead, moaning about the lack of league reputation increase over time. This game is too static about reputation and too British centric which greatly reduces the pleasure of playing this game managing another club but an English one.

Kieron, you don't need to be programmer to imagine that there is nothing that rely on prize cash in league, except you and your game. If a prize amount is a constant and obviously it is accessed only once per season to add it to your account, then it is easy enough to add some calculations in place of constant. I thought now maybe board is relying somehow on cash prizes, I mean their decisions, but I don't believe it on the other hand they introduced something like this if they were unable to introduce development of leagues.

Jayahr, that is not fully true, you just said that playing 8 seasons in CM, I think there has to be more going after that like keeping the best players in the team and buying better that are not only filling holes, but are real strengthening of the squad. Also money has to be invested accordingly in club infrastructure, was this done in Resonborg? See how Russian clubs are keeping their best players, if they leave, they leave for 20-30 m and this is cash that can be used to find another gifted players.

Headhunter, true words you said, this describes it the best.

Maybe SIGAMES need some help from me when I was 12 I wrote simple manager on ATARI 65XE for myself

A slight increase of the country/leagues reputation wouldn’t hurt. You guys that argue against that idea are probably Britons and playing British teams, thus you don’t really realize how frustrating it is to still be considered as a “second rank league” club, even after you managed to win the CL. But we’re not all interested in managing a British team which we’re eventually forced to do after a few seasons because it’s where the big money is.

Allowing the league reputation to increase based on the results in European competitions is feasible and won’t kill the interest of the game; it will increase it, because it will make the rise of new rivals across Europe possible.

As it works now, imagine you play FM 1990 picking up an English team, they were the shame of European football at that time, kick’n rush, that was all it was about beyond the channel back in these days. You wouldn’t be able to have a proper signing in 2010 as it is for lower rank leagues now. We all know that things changed for the English football since then and it would be much more interesting to play the game if such things could happen on the long run.

We don’t ask for a complicated calculation to take place in order to achieve that, but just take in account the continental results, and have some events if clubs do well like: “The continental results of the Polish clubs has increased the interest of some players for this championship lately”. Yet, it would still take 15-20 years of winning the CL each year to have the Polish leagues increase to a point where they can compete with Spanish or English clubs, which would prevent unrealistic events to happen too often in the game.

As FM is build now, if ever in the next few years Italian football becomes the best football again, everybody will suddenly stop playing ManU or Arsenal just because the game is having hardcoded league reputation and they would be unable to buy correct players to compete against the Italian clubs. And it’s not going to be Piotrekxxxxx or I posting stuff like that but you instead, moaning about the lack of league reputation increase over time. This game is too static about reputation and too British centric which greatly reduces the pleasure of playing this game managing another club but an English one.

This backs up fully my point

Look at what happened to Rosenborg. They kept their best players for a bit longer and could continually sign the best players from all other Norwegian clubs, but they never got any star player from abroad. Same even with Ajax who play in a bigger league.

I guess in FM you should still be able to sign very decent players from abroad which irl would be tough to impossible to get.

Jayahr, I shouldn't probably speak for Rosenborg as I don't know what was happening there, but I give you example from my game. After 5 full seasons I am able to offer 32000 euro a week, and I can't sign any player that would be a real strengthening of my squad. Another story is that I changed my budgets because I had 8m of transfer budget for this season and I was strugling to spend a million. So I decided to add it to wage budget, but I still have players that will be only filling holes and I don't want to buy them.

Rosenborg isn't exactly doing great lately in continental competitions for the last couple of years but anyway, I know Rosenborg, as most football fans do in Europe as well, and how? Because they achieved something when being in European competition. I’m pretty sure most people in Europe didn’t even heard of Rosenborg back in the 90’. But for the last decade, Rosenborg played some CL matches and you can be sure that this helped them signing much more promising players that they could have achieved if not showing in the CL. Their reputation in Europe has greatly increased over the past 10 years, but they were so unknown before that, that it is quite normal that Robinho and Ronalidinho didn’t signed there 4 or 5 years ago. It takes time IRL to increase the reputation but it happens, which is impossible in FM and therefore unrealistic.

Also i believe Roseburg only made the group stages. I believe what alot of people are saying myself, Headhunter and Piotrek included, is people are winning the CL with these teams or making the last 16. England and Russia are the prime examples. One team done well and it followed with a chain reaction.

Piotrek has said in his game theirs 3 or 4 Polish teams doing well in Europe in a similar fashion that England re-built their reputation, Russia done it quicker than most by winning the UEFA cups. Also Porto is another example. Since they done as well the Portugese league is now in the same terms as the middle-top European leagues, where i dont believe they where before

I've already heavily stated my views for dynamic reputation. And I'll just further put my point across here. Its absolutely needed. That being said, I would fully expect it to take at LEAST 10 years to really see any kind of improvment. The finanacial side of things is the small bit that doesn't bother me, its the fact I can't sign World Class players, simply because my league rep wont allow me. A user on here was kind enough to run a test for me with my save. At the end of the 2044/45 season, my reputation was 7,000 somthing (Cant remember the exact figures). At the league reset, it dropped to below 4,000 - quite simply because, during the season, my runs in the Champs League, my World Club Cup win, Euro Super cup win and 5 Domestic trophies saw the rep rise that much, but then after 1 more day, its as if it never happened. The teams in N. Ireland are really getting strong now too, (Mainly due to the fact most are becoming professional, and can offer better training, wages and grounds) - but the fact is, there seems to be a limit here. Its really annoying. Its been 45 seasons for me now, and I would have expected to see some change in the N Irish reputation structure, due to my success. On top of that, 3 of the other clubs regularly make it into Europe now, but we're restricted due to the fact the league rep wont rise.

What piotrek mentioned above, would be a perfect way to increase league rep and finances. League Rep = Average reputation of league clubs, Prize money is based on league rep.

So if season 1, you have average league rep of 4000 (Lets say, 10 clubs at 6,000, 10 clubs at 2,000) - and 4,000 rep points = prize money breakdown of x, but in season 10, you have average league rep of 5,500 (nothing major here. Its realistic to expect the league rep to rise that much when human contolled) - then the prize money = y (or X + %) - then I don't really see how that could introduce more bugs to the game. You would have a prize money Cap, once league rep hits 10,000 and prize money is Max - and in the same breath, the league could decline, if it does poorly in Europe, etc....

Its just definitely something that needs to be added into the game, even if only in the most basic of manners at the moment.

I dont think it would be too hard to programme it so that as teams reps grow within a league, the leagues rep should grow too.

I think it should be done so that a leagues rep is based on an average of the teams within it.

And there should obviously be a cap on league rep

That way, if One team develops in a league but the rest dont, the average league rep will not grow out of porportion to its world standing.

Its a problem Ive had when Ive played smaller leagues like belguim for example.

Not to mention the great amount of scenarios this change would trigger if it was implemented, just think about it:

2020, for the last 5 years the Russian clubs have conquered Europe, the English Football Federation asks for better results from its local teams, as a matter of fact, the Chelsea board is offering you a contract to take control of the team and bring it back to European heights.

Much more interesting and challenging than; 2020, for the last decade 9 CL on 10 have been won by Arsenal or ManU or Man City and you’re just wasting your time playing a club from another country because its hardcoded that way.

I’ve managed OM for my first FM 2010 game, finished 3rd in my CL group first season, played the Europa League and won it by miracle. Second season, managed to win the CL final after lucky wins, 3rd season, won the CL again, not by miracle but with tight results. 4th season; playing an English side in the groups that wasn’t even champion yet the medias give me little chance against them even though their players are crap compared to mine, and of course, as I consider my side the best, I say so during the interview, the result is unhappiness from my players because they feel I’m too overconfident?!!!! WTF?! Yo people, you’re champions! Tottenham is insignificant compared to us, you’re by far the best team with the best results, you should feel confident, not moaning about me your manager thinking you can win against the 3rd of Premiership.

I will add one more thing here for SIGAMES. Even if this would make game less realistic, I think game should make gamers happy and adding Polish (and other) league to playable leagues has no point now. After few seasons we, gamers, are just bored, playing those worse leagues, so maybe it is time to change it.

I am going stop saying it is wrong as obviously it is and try to give some ideas or actually confirm ideas given above. I think the best one would be to rely on european countries coefficients. This would leave game realistic as no country will jump suddenly by 10 places up, unless it is somewhere in the bottom of this table. This would leave this changes more realistic. Obviously it can rely on other thing and maybe should like if football is popular in country. Example of Rosenborg might suggest football is not so popular there. Also I guess if country has small population and football is not popular enough, prizes will never exceed some level. So there are many thing SI can rely on and not make it really complicated. It is something that is calculated once per season so it won't complicate anything.

I dont think it would be too hard to programme it so that as teams reps grow within a league, the leagues rep should grow too.

I think it should be done so that a leagues rep is based on an average of the teams within it.

And there should obviously be a cap on league rep

That way, if One team develops in a league but the rest dont, the average league rep will not grow out of porportion to its world standing.

Its a problem Ive had when Ive played smaller leagues like belguim for example.

Pretty much a point I mentioned above, and definitely seems like the most logical answer.

If 1 team then dominates, you wont get a stupid league rep, making it a real "group effort" for the league rep to rise, meaning the rises would be minimal, if at all, making it completely reaslistic, and true to the way world football works.

In what way would it be a massive change for the game Neil?

After 3 years of talk about this subject on the boards, and pretty much every side of the coin being argued within the threads, the worst I can think of, is that every league becomes amazingly rich, and the finicial side of things melts down. I really can't see anything else that would cause such a massive shake up. If you don't wish to disclose this info, thats cool. (Although a PM would be nice ).

Presumably because the league reputation has direct effects on almost every aspect of the clubs in that league, from finances through transfers, scouting, youth development and so on. Balancing this stuff's difficult enough when it's not changing every season.

Yeah current the league reps are static - this is something we're certainly aware of and are looking into, but this would be a massive change for the game, so any even slight tweaks would have to be done after much consideration. Thanks for bringing it up though.

Neil, thanks for adding something here. As you can see almost everybody would love to see that change.

I don't want to be too smart and argue as you probably know better, but I can't resist saying I can't really imagine what big impact from your point of view it would have on the game. I am probably not the first one that was messing with editor and could not see game not working well, when this changed, even to highest value straght away. I believe that should be considered as a base constraint for the game which is considered as a long term playable game.

Nothing will be broken if implemented correctly. League reputation change should work on the principle of “communicating jars” (don’t know if you call it that way in English). What it means is that, if a league is losing reputation it will always be to the benefit of another one, or other ones so that you can never reach a point where all leagues across Europe can have 10000 reputation.

All world leagues start with a specific reputation, all theses reputation points are added to give the total amount of “world reputation” available, let’s say 1’000’000. And these “World reputation” points flow from one league to another depending on the results across time, reflecting the better result of one league at some point during history without the possibility to have all leagues reaching the max reputation.

IRL the reputation is linked with continental results, if one nation’s clubs are doing badly, the league loses reputation but this reputation is not lost, it is only transferred through time to another league making its teams more attractive. These “World reputation” points could be divided into smaller units like “Continental reputation points” to keep the game realistic, otherwise South American clubs will never make it against European clubs if only “World reputation points” are used and will eventually end up with the inability to purchase players from their own country.

That is very good idea. I thought that prizes could be based on the same idea of having a total amount of prizes split between the countries. This would allow give more to those performing well and take from those performing worse. I would actually also consider introducing boards of leagues (or just FA, in Poland board of league is separate body) that would actually decide to sign contract for TV rights, set prizes, this would be based on reputation of league in country and in the world, reputation of teams (if previous not based on teams reputation), popularity of footbal in country and population of country. These would be base factors used to change those prizes.

Piotrek has said in his game theirs 3 or 4 Polish teams doing well in Europe in a similar fashion that England re-built their reputation, Russia done it quicker than most by winning the UEFA cups. Also Porto is another example. Since they done as well the Portugese league is now in the same terms as the middle-top European leagues, where i dont believe they where before

I can't see them being up there now either tbh

Portugal have a pretty decent league. The elite teams obv stand out a bit more, but yeah, I agree with Wardog there.

It’s important to treat the “reputation” as: interest from media/players. IRL you can never 6 championships being considered as the best on the continent at the same time, because the interest of the media/players flows from one to another depending on the continental results of its clubs. There will always be a single “best championship” at the same time, even if 2 championships are close to each other, there will always be one that is considered better than the other. Using the principle of the communicating jars will help keep the balance as it is in reality; the Italians teams are performing better than the English ones? The result is a reduction of the attractiveness of the teams from that league and an increase for the Italian ones. And using the continental results is the most fair method to balance the change.

1. All countries have an attractiveness based on the population, football interest, development level that is hardcoded at the beginning of the game (I think Afghanistan will be lot less attractive than England in the years to come because of lack of professional football interest and economical development) and the changes inside a country will always take decades so hardcoding this is fine. The country attractiveness will never change in FM, it reflects the difference between countries and provide more or less “Reputation points” to its leagues

2. All leagues start with a specific attractiveness based on their country attractiveness, plus the one based on continental results (hardcoded for the first year, then based on the continental results)

3. Leagues can have a small increase of attractiveness based on the reputation of its players, not much, but a slight increase

So to calculate the reputation:

England:

0. Starting reputation points: 0

1. Country reputation points: +5000 (hardcoded value)

2. League reputation points for Premiership: +2000 (hardcoded value)

3. Overall players reputation points for Premiership: +1237

4. League continental reputation results: -200 (results from previous year)

5. Total reputation points: 8037

Or something similar.

Next year (The english teams underperformed):

0. Starting reputation points: 8037 (previous season total to start calculation)

1. Country reputation points: 0 (never changes so not needed for calculation after 1st season)

2. League reputation points for Premiership: 0 (never changes so not needed for calculation after 1st season)

3. Overall players reputation points for Premiership: -120 (As teams underperformed, their players did too)

4. League continental reputation results: -334

5. New Total reputation points: 7583

Actually Rosenborg have international players who plays for Sweden, Denmark, Slovakia, Ghana and Finland, to mention some. One of them is Anthony Annan who play beside Michael Essien on the Ghana midfield.

Rosenborg actually attracts a lot of big names and good coaches. Especially from Scandinavia, Africa and Eastern Europe. Because of Rosenborgs success the norwegian league improved, attracting interest from both tv and sponsors. During the 2000's more clubs have build new stadia and lots of investors have pumped money into the clubs. A historic tv revenue fee was also negotiated, supplying the clubs with a lot of money. Because of this the clubs were able to pay higher wages and therefore being more attractive to better players.

So because of Rosenborgs and the norwegian national team success during the 90's and early 2000 the reputation and quality of the league increased.

Now, though, after the credit crunch, and norwegian teams failings of doing well in Europe, less players want to come, and the teams could not afford the same wages. But Rosenborg still enjoy a good reputation across Europe.

Because of this I would really like a dynamic league reputation. I think it would add a lot to the game, and also doing what is most important for us who love football, keeping the dream alive. The dream that you one they will be the ultimate best team.

I am so glad that SI are finally considering changing this, because its something that has bothered me for many versions as well. If you are managing in a country with a low reputation after a while it becomes pointless because your potential is capped at whatever that country's leagues' reputation is. Small changes over long periods of time don't seem unrealistic at all, just so long as the shifts aren't too drastic.

This has never been considered before because SI was probably assuming that foreign customers are just a bunch of foreigners and don’t deserve respect, neither their championships. At least it’s how I felt it when I’ve posted 3 years ago for the same issue and had only aggressive posts because most FM players were from England or playing English teams and were disregarding the other championships and the bugs and flaws that came with. Now we’d like to have a more realistic football manager game, not just “English Football Manager + a bunch of crappy untested championships full with bugs 2010”.

This has never been considered before because SI was probably assuming that foreign customers are just a bunch of foreigners and don’t deserve respect, neither their championships. At least it’s how I felt it when I’ve posted 3 years ago for the same issue and had only aggressive posts because most FM players were from England or playing English teams and were disregarding the other championships and the bugs and flaws that came with. Now we’d like to have a more realistic football manager game, not just “English Football Manager + a bunch of crappy untested championships full with bugs 2010”.

You started off with a bit of sense and was quite constructive, but you finished with a blatantly ignorant statement, "SI don't respect foreigners or their Championships". Oh behave.

I would have said the same about my post as you did if this “issue” wasn’t around for a long time now. Don’t worry about me being constructive; I never post something without a good reason!

i think what he meant is the game is mainly based for the English football fans rather than those of other nations who may be less lilkey to buy the game.

Exactly what I meant, the market size was possibly less interesting …

Let's get toghether and start developing own non-English FM lol;)

I have to admit that those words of Headhunter seem to be true. I mentioned about that problem a year ago and was same - ignored. Don't want to be repetitive as I said this above, but as analyst and developer I can't imagine what big impact and what bugs could it cause. We have all gave good ideas how to solve the problem, I guess big heads from SI have thought about this as well and I think it is not impossible, more - not even very hard to introduce.

So SI - get to work and take care about non English customers!

I think this is kind of getting a little FM natzi style lols. Im not against the English leagues being good guys, just i think a little more time needs to be spent on looking after all customers all over the world aswell as their 50M fan base in england. The English leagues are fine, probably the Scottish leagues which i use. But SI for more sales you need to start looking at the little guy, also i notice a number of the English fans play the challenges which only allow to use a smaller nation.

I'm quite baffled by a lot of the rants in here, you must surely acknowledge that changing to a dynamic league structure has the potential to fundamentally alter the playabilty of long-term games, possibly more than any other factor? The status quo as we know it now; Premier League, Serie A and Primera Liga being the top leagues, could take a major tumbling with other leagues taking over a decade or so down the line.

This isn't about "SI don't want to ruin the English League" or "SI don't care about foreign leagues" because they're utterly ridiculous suggestions. SI are not overprotective of the English league and i've never seen anything to suggest they're dismissive of foreign leagues.

It takes time to get something as massive as this correct and it probably won't be correct the first time we ever see it in a future edition of FM and will need some fine tuning after user feedback. Personally, having managed Lyon in FM09, i was hindered by the league reputation and couldn't take Lyon any further despite European success over 5 years. So yes, as an Englishman, i'm all in favour of dynamic leagues. We don't all manage English clubs.

I think this is kind of getting a little FM natzi style lols. Im not against the English leagues being good guys, just i think a little more time needs to be spent on looking after all customers all over the world aswell as their 50M fan base in england. The English leagues are fine, probably the Scottish leagues which i use. But SI for more sales you need to start looking at the little guy, also i notice a number of the English fans play the challenges which only allow to use a smaller nation.

Surely the Scottish league fans, and the Welsh and Irish too, would like the dynamic league reputations as much as anyone else? They're not exactly dominant powerhouses at the moment, are they?

There's no conspiracy going on here, it's just a massive chunk of work that will presumably get done at some point - probably in the background for several versions until it's ready, like the competition editor was.

Any one who says that this is simple fix hasn't though out every single consequence of the changes that it makes to the game. If it was just a simple case of setting up a change in the league reputation it would of been done already.

The fact is that the league reputation effects every single aspect of the game, get it wrong the whole game is going to be completely screwed up. Not to mention that just putting in a simple this leagues European Coefficent has gone up lets up it's reputation is a poor model (even worse if you aren't playing a European team who doesn't get onto the European Coefficents what happens then?). If you are going to put it in then you need to also consider where the league is geographically, the population in that area, the financial strength of that area, the social demographics, etc... the list is pretty long. I wouldn't want to play a game where it was possible for the N. Irish leagues to have a better reputation then Spain, Italy, England, Germany. It is possible for that league to improve it would take the complete collapse of pretty much every bigger European leagues for N. Ireland to become the premier European League. There just isn't the population, financial power, or fan base to justify it. Now a league like the MLS that could potentially compete with the current big four if it could overcome competition from the other big US sports.

I'm not against dynamic league reputations, but if it comes in it needs to be done properly, not some the half arsed suggestions I've seen people posting over the years. The long term playability of the game already has some large problems, squad sizes, and it doesn't need even larger problems added into the mix.

The idea is not to change the system in such a way that Iceland could become top championship in Europe, but rather give the players actions more impact over time.

A system like the following will help achieve this:

England:

Country points: +5000

League Points:

- Premiership: +2000

- Championship: +1500

-CC L1 : +1000

-CCL2: +500

-BSP:+250

-BSN/S: +100

France:

Country points: +5000

League Points:

- L1: +1500

- L2: +1000

-NAT : +500

Iceland:

Country points: +500

League Points:

- Simadeildin: +150

- 1st Div: +100

And on this base reputation points you add the continental performance points obtained by the teams from that nation.

Using this method will keep the balance in game, but is flexible enough to change things slightly on the long run. Thus you can have the French teams for example get closer to the reputation of the English ones if their teams are doing great in one season. Yet it would still take 3-4 years of great results in continental competition for these teams to help the reputation of their leagues go high enough to start competing with the English ones. As you can see in the example above, Iceland would need more than hundreds of years of winning the CL each year to have their reputation closing the English ones, making it impossible for the game to be destroyed after a few years as some of you seem to fear.

In order to keep the things fair and avoid weak nations that will constantly lose because of the crap quality of their player to go down in hell a change modifier needs to be added:

Example:

England:

Positive results bonus modifier: x 0.10 (people expect good results from English teams)

Negative results bonus modifier: x 1.0 (people are more likely to be disappointed if English teams perform badly)

France:

Positive results bonus modifier: x 0.20

Negative results bonus modifier: x 0.90

Iceland:

Positive results bonus modifier: x 1.50 (people would be astonished if an Icelandic team is doing great in continental competition)

Negative results bonus modifier: x 0.01 (nobody really expects something from Icelandic teams in continental competitions)

Headhunter, I won't be reading that again, but I think it was your post there which I believe would make this change under control - to keep sum of all reps same every season. This would make reducing rep somewhere if rep is increased somewhere else.

I will also comment on feedback about idea of basing rep changes on country coefficients, which feedback was bad as I understood. I completly disagree it was bad idea. This would actually work perfectly. Let's say low rep league teams does bad in europe, but particular season they will do enough good (for example some crap Polish team) to be proud of their result. Their rep will not be taken off Man U or other good team, it will be taken off a team that should do better that season. That is how coefficients works if you perform worse than your level, you drop, if you perform better than your level you go up. That is why Dynamo Kiev will probably drop some positions down after this season and Debrecen will probably go up although both teams finished 4th in CL group stages this season.