Tracking back,,,, or lack of it!!!!!

This seems to have been overlooked totally in FM and yet it should be one of the most important aspects of a football team. Not available in any tactical screen and not available in the Touchline Instructions for those playing with the creator I ask how do you get your players to track back??

I play 4-4-2. Ideally like real life I would like to have two banks of 4 when defending closing down the opposition however this is impossible to implement in FM. Closing down and tackling doesn't work properly but tracking back is non existent.

When you lose the ball wingers meander back in their own time, the DM who you instruct not to go forward takes 3 days to get back from the oppositions penalty area and your strikers fail to get behind the ball in any way at all!!

How can we get out players to get back? Too many times it is merely our back line defending against the masses, any suggestions?

Deeper defensive line and lower mentality imo. There's little/no point tracking back if you're caught ahead of play.

Could also try reducing closing down, and so your players will fall back (assuming their mentality allows it) rather than pressuring high up the pitch.

Deeper defensive line and lower mentality imo. There\\\'s little/no point tracking back if you\\\'re caught ahead of play.

Could also try reducing closing down, and so your players will fall back (assuming their mentality allows it) rather than pressuring high up the pitch.

^agree^

I personally dont have a problem with closing down and I play a 4-4-2. Sounds like your players are getting caught ahead of play. Play deeper until you have a hold on the game then push up a little.

Deeper defensive line and lower mentality imo. There's little/no point tracking back if you're caught ahead of play.

Could also try reducing closing down, and so your players will fall back (assuming their mentality allows it) rather than pressuring high up the pitch.

^ ^

Disagree

IRL if you lose the ball you chase it trying to get it back, you try and get the shape back, yes you can get hit on the counter but there is no excuse for not trying to get back behind the ball if you lose it.

wouldn't this type of thing be covered by workrate, teamwork, determination, positioning, off the ball etc?

Set full backs to auto or support for wingers.

^ ^

Disagree

IRL if you lose the ball you chase it trying to get it back, you try and get the shape back, yes you can get hit on the counter but there is no excuse for not trying to get back behind the ball if you lose it.

I agreed as it is the best solution to not get caught in the first place

If you have done this and STILL get caught then increase closing down for wingers and reduce forward runs on wingers.

Also make sure there isnt too large a gap in the mentality settings of the FB\'s and wingers.

^ ^

Disagree

IRL if you lose the ball you chase it trying to get it back, you try and get the shape back, yes you can get hit on the counter but there is no excuse for not trying to get back behind the ball if you lose it.

Players will try and run back if there's a realistic chance of it mattering - if the attack has your defence chasing back too though, ie. they've been caught high up the pitch, then the midfield will have little hope of being able to do anything. If you play deeper, the fact that there is a defensive line that still needs to be broken will allow the midfield time to track back. Also try and force play out wide - so men can get back into the middle before any cross comes in.

Ensure your players are hardworking, have stamina, and are actually being asked to do said role - ie. track back and win possession, rather than press in the middle. Also make sure players are motivated and not exhausted.

Totally agree with orig post but there is some factors.

Other problems noticed is see the ball be cleared from corner and watch the 2 players on the post dont push out infact would like to tell them shove off out the box completely but they just wait for the enivitable return ball into the box. Even if I am not calling for offside as they are useless to co-ordinate it by not working together they still would at least get out the six yard box.

Another is LAZY strikers or attackers why once attack breaks down just stand way offside with absolute no attempt to try get themselves back into the game. This can leave you light and likely to be caught on the counter.

Now I do now the game learns your tactics and players will be disjointed until understanding your tactic and in time you will see some solid 2 banks of 4. Now whether this is too long is another issue I dont see them oiled until season 2 of a squad and you have problems if you even just replace one regular. The whole squad start playing like they never met again. Another is also very important is make sure backroom staff work your formation if they dont your in BIG trouble.

Its often overlooked what formation a coach uses but its just as important as his training skills now.

I agree with some sentiments but this just adds proof to the suggestion that you need "with the ball" and "without the ball" tactical screens. I understand how you say play deeper, less FR etc etc but then how do you attack??!! Ideally going forward you want to play wide, have people making forward runs, have your strikers running off the ball and having your defensive line pushing up, that's attacking. Playing narrower, closing down or dropping off, keeping it tight and having people track back is defensive. The problem with FM is you can't use both, you are either defensive or attacking.

I really don't think on and off the ball instruction are either needed or realistic - you need players to simply have their roles and their instructions on what to do, and let their attributes help the rest. As you say, keeping shape is essential, so you want players to have roles that allow this to happen. If your midfield are constantly on the attack, they're potentially leaving a big gap and leaving yourself exposed. By having more players in support and defense, for instance, it's harder for the opposition to break you down or find gaps, and with the defensive line and closing down sorted it could be harder to get caught on the counter.

The top teams all have players there to steady the ship, win the ball back and hold a position in midfield and link to the defence, track back to get the ball, and act to play simple passes upfield. Those who don't will generally either have a more concervative approach, or simply lose out to better teams.

A conservative approach can be the most lethal. By having support players and allowing them to have creative freedom, you can keep your shape but still attack when possible - and do so better, as a unit rather than on the break. Playing defensively can seem deceptively negative - lure the opposition in and break on the counter. A deep line plus an attacking approach can be hugely effective.

I agree with some sentiments but this just adds proof to the suggestion that you need \"with the ball\" and \"without the ball\" tactical screens. I understand how you say play deeper, less FR etc etc but then how do you attack??!! Ideally going forward you want to play wide, have people making forward runs, have your strikers running off the ball and having your defensive line pushing up, that\'s attacking. Playing narrower, closing down or dropping off, keeping it tight and having people track back is defensive. The problem with FM is you can\'t use both, you are either defensive or attacking.

Not necessarily. I am saying make sure you have a foothold in the game before you go too attacking.

You need to keep a VERY close eye on the AI and what they are doing.

Well I used some suggestions and Jermain Defoe scores after 17 seconds for Spurs!!! I was meant o be defending deep and a ball over the top he breaks the offside trap?? and scores!!!!!!!! Give me strength!!

Give the players time to get used to the tactics.

At times I've found my Inter team having DL a few notches from the very lowest, and at others over half way.

Well I used some suggestions and Jermain Defoe scores after 17 seconds for Spurs!!! I was meant o be defending deep and a ball over the top he breaks the offside trap?? and scores!!!!!!!! Give me strength!!

dont put your line too high and make sure your keeper is a sweeper. to cover some of the space.

The key to high line is not always play offside or set one central defender to cover mainly your quickest to try eliminate over the top.

I have my fullbacks on cover to sweep slow DC's and my keeper as a sweeper my line higher but not extreme. There is quite a few ways to cover higher line.

I personally dont like doing offside trap because you always see silly positioning from the back four there either to far apart or too square either is bad. The other is the game way offside ball is kicked they just stand still. Its by hook and crook they get players offside more down to silly positioning of attacker.

You dont see the back four move up 4 to 5 yards just before the ball played the game dont understand how teams IRL try to trap its attackers. Usually one of the defenders will give the secret command when to push up and often in real life its never absolute they will not do it every time as the oponents will easily counter it unless its working every time as they have stupid strikers.

Just tried tight man marking on Crouch and Defoe with defenders of markin stat 15 and I was 3 down after 17 mins, with Crouch getting 2 and Defoe one.

I think what annoys people is that no matter what you ask a player to do he just won't do it.

One of the goals the defender gets in front of Defoe, I think great, then he lumps it straight at Defoe the ball bounces at Defoes feet and he taps it in. Quite simply laughable.

dont put your line too high and make sure your keeper is a sweeper. to cover some of the space.

The key to high line is not always play offside or set one central defender to cover mainly your quickest to try eliminate over the top.

I have my fullbacks on cover to sweep slow DC's and my keeper as a sweeper my line higher but not extreme. There is quite a few ways to cover higher line.

I personally dont like doing offside trap because you always see silly positioning from the back four there either to far apart or too square either is bad. The other is the game way offside ball is kicked they just stand still. Its by hook and crook they get players offside more down to silly positioning of attacker.

You dont see the back four move up 4 to 5 yards just before the ball played the game dont understand how teams IRL try to trap its attackers. Usually one of the defenders will give the secret command when to push up and often in real life its never absolute they will not do it every time as the oponents will easily counter it unless its working every time as they have stupid strikers.

My defensive line was set to "deep" that's what is laughable!!!

I play the old style rather than Tactic creator, I can't make heads or tails of the creator and I manage two RL teams a week!!!!

My defensive line was set to \"deep\" that\'s what is laughable!!!

I play the old style rather than Tactic creator, I can\'t make heads or tails of the creator and I manage two RL teams a week!!!!

Were you palying narrow whilst playing deep or wide?

What are mentality settings of the DC\'s?

Who passed to Defoe? Why wasnt he closed down?

Defoe is one fast player, so like IRL there are going to be occasions you just cant stop him on through balls.

There will be reasons I can promise you that. This version of FM is a very tactic accute one.

Give the players time to get used to the tactics.

At times I've found my Inter team having DL a few notches from the very lowest, and at others over half way.

A myth im afraid.

A myth im afraid.

Explain?

A myth, or just the fact that you're trying to get your players to play a poor tactic and/or one that doesn't suit them?

Explain?

A myth, or just the fact that you're trying to get your players to play a poor tactic and/or one that doesn't suit them?

Nothing wrong with my tactics mate. In fact, there brilliant, and i dont have anything bad to say about the game.

Taking time to settle into a new tactic = a myth.

It's not a myth though. :confused:

I've taken over teams and put my own system in place, but it's taken a while to produce results if the previous system was greatly different. It's along the same lines as players taking a while to adapt to a new country.

Its actually been said officialy that it is a myth.

On the other hand, some players taking time to settle isn't a myth.

Its actually been said officialy that it is a myth.

On the other hand, some players taking time to settle isn't a myth.

Where's it been said?

The actual workings of tactics gelling, as far as I'm aware, are a case of players needing to adapt to new roles, ie. a new style, just as they would if moving to a new team or country. Too it could be a case of tactics being less effective if changed frequently for such a reason and how the AI will counter.

Where's it been said?

The actual workings of tactics gelling, as far as I'm aware, are a case of players needing to adapt to new roles, ie. a new style, just as they would if moving to a new team or country. Too it could be a case of tactics being less effective if changed frequently for such a reason and how the AI will counter.

I dont have a direct link as i cant remember where it was, but a representative of SI said it. Im 99% sure.

Have a look through the forums (could take a while)

Im sure there was a link on the post that took you to the official guy who originaly said it, but it seems to have gone.

Try this link, it will take you directly to it.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?p=4314792&highlight=myth#post4314792